From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Wed Feb 2 00:31:52 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 00:31:52 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:mwedel:skills Message-ID: <1296628312.363336.9881.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/02 00:31 User : mwedel Edit Summary: add dodge ideas. @@ -86,23 +86,58 @@ One thought is to break down the weapon skills some - instead of the basic breakdown of one handed, 2 handed, and missile weapon (ignore the various hand to hand skills), do it more functionally - axes, clubs/maces/hammers, swords, spears, bows/crossbows. From the basic table above, it is likely that different classes may have a different mix on cost here. For example, fighters may be able to get all of those at cost 3. But clerics, following AD&D tradition, might be clubs/maces/hammers at cost 4 (they are still not as good as fighters), and the other weapon skills at cost 5, and perhaps some at cost 6. Paladins might get swordsmanship at cost 3, but higher cost for all the other skills - perhaps bow being cost 6, since paladins should really meet their foes in face to face combat. - This revised system overall is based on AC/WC going away - that is too difficult to balance - otherwise, at some point, that level 20 (in weapon skill, but maybe level 40 overall) will just never hit something that the level 40 fighter (level 50 in weapon) is hitting. Now that level 20 character should be less effective in weapon, but that would be controlled by lower damage (30 level difference would be 6 damage) and weapon speed. Thus, it takes longer for that first character to kill the same creature as the fighter, but unless that creature has good regeneration, is still quite possible. - - In order to balance the system, one must think about what the advancement of the weapon skill is. Off the top of my head, this is what I've thought of - at first level, a character does damage around 10 @ speed 0.75. Weapon speed will peak at 2.0 - exactly when that happens could vary on a lot of factors - if the character is not wearing armor, they may get that speed much sooner, but there is clearly a disadvantage there. Weapon damage should peak around 25 for the weapon itself (note, there are many above that) - at first level, weapons the character is likely to find should be less than 10. A characters skill, at level 100, might give another 25 damage points, and strength 25 more. So that is a damage value of 75 @ 2.0 speed. That is a very big swing, but one also has to figure that at first level, the characters they are fighting have 0 armor, and at level 100, everything should have 75% armor. So that first level character 3.75 damage/tick on the actual creature, at level 100, the character would average 18.75 DPT to the actual creature - 5 times as much - but that opponent is also going to have a lot more hitpoints (probably closer to 10 times as many), so would take longer. + In order to balance the system, one must think about what the advancement of the weapon skill is. Off the top of my head, this is what I've thought of - at first level, a character does damage around 10 @ speed 0.75. Weapon speed will peak at 2.0 - exactly when that happens could vary on a lot of factors - if the character is not wearing armor, they may get that speed much sooner, but there is clearly a disadvantage there. Weapon damage should peak around 35 for the weapon itself (note, there are many above that) - at first level, weapons the character is likely to find should be less than 10. A characters skill, at level 100, might give another 25 damage points, and strength 25 more. So that is a damage value of 85 @ 2.0 speed. That is a very big swing, but one also has to figure that at first level, the characters they are fighting have 0 armor, and at level 100, everything should have 75% armor. So that first level character 3.75 damage/tick on the actual creature, at level 100, the character would average 21.25 DPT to the actual creature - 5 times as much - but that opponent is also going to have a lot more hitpoints (probably closer to 10 times as many), so would take longer. Unfortunately, doing the math, a 1000 hp creature would be brought down in 53 ticks, or a bit under 7 creatures. IMO, such a creature should be epic (not a huge number of level 100 creatures about. Increasing armor or hit points would increase the time, but one should not have super well defended creatures. However, a lot of this is also based on character hit points - a high level character could have ~750 hit points if they really tried. I'd personally like to even out the con bonus so it is for all levels, not just the first 10 (a level 10 character with 30 con could conceivably have 500+ hp - how can one balance that when a more typical character is probably at ~120?). - So if hit points is changed so that each level (all the way up to 100), they get a die roll of 1-10. So with lots of improvement potions, character now has 1000 hp from that. With maximum con, give them another 500 (5/level), for 1500 total. If one says it is reasonable for really tough (eg, epic boss creatures) to double character hit points, that give that creature 3000 hit points - now that is 160 ticks, or about 20 seconds, assuming creature has no regeneration, that character can constantly keep on the creature - not bad. + So if hit points is changed so that each level (all the way up to 100), they get a die roll of 1-10. So with lots of improvement potions, character now has 1000 hp from that. With maximum con, give them another 500 (5/level), for 1500 total. If one says it is reasonable for really tough (eg, epic boss creatures) to double character hit points, that give that creature 3000 hit points - now that is 140 ticks, or about 18 seconds, assuming creature has no regeneration, that character can constantly keep on the creature - not bad. One effect of evening out the hit points for characters is that it improves balance. The level 10 creature is likely to always have 130 hp or so (characters start with 30) - a high con will give them a few more vs low con, but not nearly so drastic as it is now. - This is starting to get off topic from skills - main point was to try to determine a maximum damage rate for that maximum character with melee weapons - from there, one can then start to figure out what reasonable value for other spells are - for example, with an 18.75 DPT for melee weapon, one can also figure that a spell should do 18.75 DPT also at maximum level. + This is starting to get off topic from skills - main point was to try to determine a maximum damage rate for that maximum character with melee weapons - from there, one can then start to figure out what reasonable value for other spells are - for example, with an 21.25 DPT for melee weapon, one can also figure that a spell should do 21.25 DPT also at maximum level. A note on balance here (again) - if we assume the character has 1500 hit points, and that the DPT for unarmored is 75 (you go into an arena, or other person just attacks you), that is still 20 ticks (2.5 seconds) before you are dead - not a lot of time, but perhaps enough to do something. + + **Dodge** + + == AC/WC == + + Originally, I had mentioned the idea of getting rid of WC/AC, as these are to hard to balance. The basic reason is that AC for players can vary wildly - a character that is lucky and finds a few +2 items, such that their AC increases by 6 points is a major gain. On a d20 system, one might think that is 30%. But if one starts on the basis that maybe the monster hits the average AC creature 50% of the time, the improved AC creature gets hits 20% of the time, which is a 60% reduction. + + Likewise, WC has a similar problem - if one goes on the basis that a good fighter might hit creatures 50% of the time, this really makes life hard for mages - they are likely loosing a few points from strength, and several more from not improving weapon skills. While they should not be as good as fighters, at some point it becomes hopeless - if they are just down to hitting 10% of the time, there probably is no point for them to try - better off going to another map, waiting 5 minutes to get back SP, and then come back (my main thought here is the wizards and other classes may choose to fall back to weapons when fighting some less dangerous creatures to let their mana recharge). + + In terms of balance, at level 50, one could expect both a mage and fighter to have a similar quality weapon - lets same damage 15. The fighter is going to be faster (due to increasing weapon skill) and do more damage (weapon skill again, plus more likely to increase strength) - this could probably make the fighter 2-3 times better than the wizard - a big gap. But this is still not nearly as bad as 10% vs 50% hit chance (5 times better, and even then, damage and speed are still likely to be better in that model, so fighter is actually a lot better). + + == Dodge Skill == + + Getting rid of the AC/WC all together does have issues. What do mages do for protection? They really shouldn't wear armor, and robes shouldn't provide that much protection. Lack of AC/WC also means that all attacks hit, which means monsters are effectively easier unless their armor and/or hp are ramped out. + + My solution to this is adding a dodge skill. Unlike WC/AC which is a contested roll, dodge is purely on the defender. If the defender has 25% dodge, 25% of attacks against them just miss. + + It is worth noting that under this system, a dodge of X% is the equivalent of armor of X%. Eg, a character with dodge 25 but 0 armor would over the course of a combat take the same amount of damage as a character of doge 0 but 25 armor. This makes it easier to figure balance. + + I figure a hard cap of 75% for dodge would be needed - no matter what, 25% of attacks are going to hit you. Starting characters may be in the 15-25% range - dexterity should improve dodge, as well as improving the dodge skill itself. + + Wearing armor would incur a penalty to dodge. For example, chain mail may have a 40% dodge penalty, so if the character puts it on, his armor goes up, his dodge goes down, and balance is retained. This could make decisions about armor a little trickier - does adding armor actually help you out? + + As noted earlier, there is the idea of an armor skill also - increasing that should decrease dodge penalty. Eg, if you are max level, may be the dodge penalty is just 1/4 the original penalty (so that chain is now 10%). The penalty would be applied after the 75% dodge cap, in other words, at best, wearing that chain armor, you are at 65% dodge. + + The reason I note that is like many bonuses, it would be possible to get above a limit. For example, with both dexterity and dodge skill increase dodge, it is reasonable to suggest that a character with level 100 in dodge would have a 75% dodge rating, regardless of dexterity. Likewise, a level 50 dodge with maximum dex might also achive that 75% dodge rating. + + Dodge would have some pluses and minuses vs conventional armor: + + * If character is paralyzed, their dodge rating would drop to 0% (can not dodge if you can not move) + * Likewise, slowed character would incur some penalty. + * Blind characters would also have a near 0% dodge rating. + * Characters that are invisible or hidden and attacking would bypass the dodge rating of the defender - once again, character can not dodge what they can not see. + * The one plus is that it is reasonable that dodge could be used to avoid certain spells (bullet, bolts, but probably not cones or exploding balls which encompass everything in the area) + + I am concerned about a character that maxes out both their dodge and armor skills - such a character could have very good armor rating and also have a very good dodge rating. But perhaps that is reasonable - if a character focuses on that, they are probably not focusing on as many weapon skills or perhaps other useful skills, like possible survival skills which give some elemental resistances. + === Loose Ends === The examples here really just focused on the 3 main character archetypes (fighter, cleric, mage). Crossfire has many more than that, and I think this also helps them out. IP-Address : 173.228.106.174 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills?rev=1296456552 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Wed Feb 2 00:42:57 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 00:42:57 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: crossfire_compile_guide Message-ID: <1296628977.432913.9902.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/02 00:42 User : Edit Summary: Details on python package for Ubuntu @@ -46,9 +46,10 @@ Installing Python and which version is still under investigation/discussion * python 2.4 is old, it runs with 2.5 and 2.6, I would use 2.6, not tried with 2.7 or 3.1 * lib64python2.4-2.4.3 is known to work on Mandriva 2007.0 x86_64 - * python2.4-dev is known to work on Ubuntu + * python2.4-dev is known to work on Ubuntu Karmic and earlier + * python2.6-dev is known to work with Ubuntu Lucid and earlier ==== Useful Packages ==== These useful packages are not normally required for end-user builds, but they come in handy in cases where developers may have forgotten to check in changes to build scripts, etc. IP-Address : 216.243.156.5 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/crossfire_compile_guide?rev=1292104577 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/crossfire_compile_guide -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Sun Feb 6 04:01:35 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 04:01:35 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:mwedel:skills Message-ID: <1296986495.072708.5218.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/06 04:01 User : ryo Edit Summary: comments @@ -155,4 +155,16 @@ Mark Wedel January 2011 + === Comments === + --- //[[nicolas.weeger at laposte.net|Ryo Saeba]] 2011/02/06 03:58// + + Seems like good ideas. + + Random thoughts: + * need a way to handle level (and thus AP) loss + * monsters should probably use the exact same mechanism, makes easier to balance ; but monsters could use a larger level range, eg 1-10000 + * have players start at level eg 5, so monsters level 1 can have a sense + * powerful artifacts and items should be carefully balanced against that ; maybe a sword requiring a minimum level in one handed weapons? + * maybe a possibility to use AP to get more HP/SP/GR? so you can level up all you want, and still have a (minor) benefit + * add 'handicaps' to claim more AP? for instance, as a fighter, I choose 'no magic', which makes my sp recharge rate almost zero but gives me eg 5 AP I can use elsewhere ; need to balance so the points given by handicap can't be used to counterbalance said handicap, of course, and maybe limit how many handicaps one can take IP-Address : 82.236.87.204 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills?rev=1296628308 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Sun Feb 6 05:15:55 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 05:15:55 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: jxclient Message-ID: <1296990955.900948.6050.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/06 05:15 User : ryo Edit Summary: minor @@ -5,8 +5,9 @@ * chat window is all messages, there should be a way to switch like the previous client * the first chat messages are split one word per line, they should be put back on one line * ground view shows first item icon and name, it should show name and weight * the square above the player can't be clicked to 'lookat' its contents + * ground view doesn't always correctly the first item ; how to reproduce: enter game, be on a bed to reality, move to another spot, notice the view changes, get back to bed to reality : name is correct, but icon is not ; hiding and showing ground view displays the correct picture again to be confirmed: * fonts size are not really taken into account * status window is messed up, texts over other texts IP-Address : 82.236.87.204 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/jxclient?rev=1296418877 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/jxclient -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Sun Feb 6 05:48:11 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 05:48:11 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: jxclient Message-ID: <1296992891.244480.6078.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/06 05:48 User : ryo Edit Summary: more @@ -6,8 +6,9 @@ * the first chat messages are split one word per line, they should be put back on one line * ground view shows first item icon and name, it should show name and weight * the square above the player can't be clicked to 'lookat' its contents * ground view doesn't always correctly the first item ; how to reproduce: enter game, be on a bed to reality, move to another spot, notice the view changes, get back to bed to reality : name is correct, but icon is not ; hiding and showing ground view displays the correct picture again + * seems the bug appears when the number of items to display changes, increases at least ; moving from a ground tile to a house + ground zone has the house's picture invalide to be confirmed: * fonts size are not really taken into account * status window is messed up, texts over other texts IP-Address : 82.236.87.204 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/jxclient?rev=1296990953 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/jxclient -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Mon Feb 7 19:36:25 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 19:36:25 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: people Message-ID: <1297128985.897661.17051.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/07 19:36 User : Edit Summary: Change web address and fix Google Webmaster Site link borkedness. @@ -22,9 +22,9 @@ | Christian Hujer | | Cher | [[http://sourceforge.net/users/christianhujer|christianhujer]] | | [[http://www.riedquat.de]] | | | Maarten Vanraes | [[user:alien]] | AL13N | [[http://sourceforge.net/users/alien999999999|alien999999999]] | | | | | Mats Rauhala | | MasseR | | | | | | Aaron Baugher | [[user:mhoram]] | Mhoram | [[http://sourceforge.net/users/aaron_baugher|aaron_baugher]] | | [[http://aaron.baugher.biz/|aaron.baugher.biz]] | | - | Kevin Bulgrien | [[user:kbulgrien]] | kbulgrien | [[http://sourceforge.net/users/kbulgrien|kbulgrien]] | | [[http://bulgrien.homelinux.net/|bulgrien.homelinux.net]] | gtk-v2 maintainer | + | Kevin Bulgrien | [[user:kbulgrien]] | kbulgrien | [[http://sourceforge.net/users/kbulgrien|kbulgrien]] | | [[http://kevin.bulgrien.net/ | kevin.bulgrien.net]] \\ [[http://crossfire.homelinux.net/ | crossfire.homelinux.net]] | gtk-v2 maintainer | | Anthony Wyatt | [[user:buzzsaw]] | buzzsaw | | | | | | James Lopeman | [[user:meflin]] | meflin | | | http://home.comcast.net/~meflin/ | | | Simon C?t? | [[user:simonraven]] | simonrvn | [[http://sourceforge.net/users/simonraven|simonraven]] | | http://simonraven.kisikew.org/ | | | Austin | [[user:austin]] | Austin` | | | http://clan123.net/ | | IP-Address : 68.92.124.222 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/people?rev=1282698332 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/people -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Thu Feb 10 00:27:55 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:27:55 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: start Message-ID: <1297319275.492793.27935.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/10 00:27 User : leaf Edit Summary: Update info for 1.60.0 release for *nix @@ -37,10 +37,10 @@ * [[Humor]] - Is there any humor in Crossfire? * [[FAQ]] - Frequently Asked Questions. [[http://crossfire.real-time.com|Crossfire]] is a [[client-server]] based game. \\ - The current version for the server is 1.50.0\\ - The current GTK client version is 1.50.0 \\ + The current version for the server is 1.60.0\\ + The current GTK client version is 1.60.0 \\ The Windows port for the server and maps 1.50.0.\\ The Windows port of the GTK client is 1.12.0 Crossfire works on: IP-Address : 216.243.156.5 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/start?rev=1291401886 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/start -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Thu Feb 10 00:28:51 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:28:51 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: crossfire_compile_guide Message-ID: <1297319332.013799.27938.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/10 00:28 User : leaf Edit Summary: Clarify that python2.6-dev is for Ubunu Lucid and later releases @@ -47,9 +47,9 @@ Installing Python and which version is still under investigation/discussion * python 2.4 is old, it runs with 2.5 and 2.6, I would use 2.6, not tried with 2.7 or 3.1 * lib64python2.4-2.4.3 is known to work on Mandriva 2007.0 x86_64 * python2.4-dev is known to work on Ubuntu Karmic and earlier - * python2.6-dev is known to work with Ubuntu Lucid and earlier + * python2.6-dev is known to work with Ubuntu Lucid and later ==== Useful Packages ==== These useful packages are not normally required for end-user builds, but they come in handy in cases where developers may have forgotten to check in changes to build scripts, etc. IP-Address : 216.243.156.5 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/crossfire_compile_guide?rev=1296628973 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/crossfire_compile_guide -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Thu Feb 10 00:30:25 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:30:25 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: crossfire_client_compile_guide Message-ID: <1297319425.282992.27944.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/10 00:30 User : leaf Edit Summary: Remove quick reference for libgtk1.2-dev, this package has been sunset @@ -19,9 +19,8 @@ * libcurl4-openssl-dev - Development files and documentation for libcurl (OpenSSL) * libgd-tools - GD command line tools and example code * libgd2-noxpm - GD Graphics Library version 2 (without XPM support) (required by libgd-tools) * libgd2-xpm-dev - GD Graphics Library version 2 (development version) - * libgtk1.2-dev - Development files for the GIMP Toolkit * libsdl1.2-dev - Simple DirectMedia Layer development files * libsdl-image1.2-dev - development files for SDL 1.2 image loading library * libtool - Generic library support script * make - The GNU version of the "make" utility @@ -30,9 +29,9 @@ * libsvn0 - shared libraries used by Subversion (aka. svn) (required by subversion) As a quick reference: - sudo apt-get install autoconf automake flex gcc libgd-tools libgd2-xpm-dev libtool make subversion libsdl1.2-dev libsdl-image1.2-dev libgtk1.2-dev libcurl3 libcurl4-openssl-dev + sudo apt-get install autoconf automake flex gcc libgd-tools libgd2-xpm-dev libtool make subversion libsdl1.2-dev libsdl-image1.2-dev libcurl3 libcurl4-openssl-dev ===X11 Client=== * x11-common - X Window System (X.Org) infrastructure (FIXME - double check this package) IP-Address : 216.243.156.5 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/crossfire_client_compile_guide?rev=1234420633 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/crossfire_client_compile_guide -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Thu Feb 10 00:54:10 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:54:10 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:mwedel:skills Message-ID: <1297320850.284417.27969.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/10 00:54 User : mwedel Edit Summary: add attribute section. @@ -136,8 +136,43 @@ * The one plus is that it is reasonable that dodge could be used to avoid certain spells (bullet, bolts, but probably not cones or exploding balls which encompass everything in the area) I am concerned about a character that maxes out both their dodge and armor skills - such a character could have very good armor rating and also have a very good dodge rating. But perhaps that is reasonable - if a character focuses on that, they are probably not focusing on as many weapon skills or perhaps other useful skills, like possible survival skills which give some elemental resistances. + === Attributes === + + In thinking about this, and how to balance it with everything else, one has to re-examine attributes (str, int, dex, etc) and current bonuses. The reason behind this is that the bonuses one gets with high attributes has to be balanced with the skills themselves. + + For example, under the current system, a Quetzalcoutal (+6 str) barbarian (+3 str) could start with a 29 strength. A 29 strength gives a +9 damage bonus. Now a non fighter character may have a 15 strength, which is +2 damage bonus, so that barbarian has a net +7. If one follows the system where every 4 levels of fighting one gets +1 damage bonus, that corresponds effectively to having 28 levels of fighting skill (this may not be technically true, as the fighting skill would also improve weapon speed some). This means that the attribute itself becomes much more important than the skill. + + Also, many of the skills have the bonus be very front loaded, meaning that the first several levels one gets a lot of bonus, and not much after that. Things like Constitution and grace/mana bonuses are that way - they give bonuses for the first 10 levels, and nothing after that. So a character with a 30 con would get 25 hp/level for the first 10 - this has many balance impacts. + + So my basic thought is this: + * Attributes range from 1 to 100. This creates nice symmetry with levels and other aspects of the game (100 based). + * Base attributed (no bonus/no penalty) would be 20. This gives sufficient space for things to be less than humans. Eg, one might say a cat should be strength 8, and a mouse strength 2. + * Attributes bonuses are linear. For example, if 100 strength gives a +20 damage bonus, that means that every 4 attribute points ( (100-20)/20 ) would increase damage. There are not major jumps like current systems. + * For penalties, the rate of penalty is higher, for example, a 1 strength may be a -9 penalty ( (20 - 1) / 2 ). This makes penalties for starting characters a bit more harsh, but may also be perfectly reasonable. For example, that starting mage may have a 10 strength, or -5 damage penalty because they spent their points increasing magic attributes. That is fine, and if they never plan to use a weapon, doesn't really hurt them. + * For attributes that give a bonus per level (Eg, hp, mana, sp), this should be for complete level range (1-100), not first 10. The bonus per level can actually be worked backward. For example, if it is decided that a character should get 500 bonus hp from maxed con, that means +5 @ 100 con. This means that the con bonus would be .0625/level (5/80) - note that instead of having integer values, these could also be stored as floats. Thus, if you are level 16, each point you increase con is 1 hp. + * Starting stat bonuses may be more extreme - but not much more, than right now. Eg, the best combination may give a character a 30 stat. + + This attribute system is based on the idea that characters get about 10 hp/mana/grace per level (it may be random, but assume that improvement potions exist). So my idea of actual stats: + + * Strength - max strength bonus is 20. Strength would still determine how much you carry, but would not improve weapon speed nor would it counteract maximum speed from armor. The fact it lets one carry more does me that the character may move faster. + * Intelligence is used for arcane spell effectiveness. For example, a high intelligence might mean spells do more damage. Some skills, like literacy, would still get some bonus from intelligence, but IMO, the skill should be the dominant factor. + * Wisdom is used for priest spells. Like Intelligence, high wisdom may increase spell effectiveness - does more healing, lasts longer, etc - effect really depends on the spell. A simple implementation may be that the high attribute increases effective caster level (eg, +1 every 5 levels). Wisdom is also used for grace - max bonus at level 100 is +500 grace, or 5/level + * Dexterity is used for dodge bonus - perhaps its peaks at 40% (since dodge is a new concept, exact balance here is hard) - that is .5%/attribute point above 20. If it is suggested that starting character have 15% dodge (anyone is going to try to dodge attacks), a starting character may be able to get 20-25% dodge (5% from 30 stat, another 5% from skill?) + * Constitution is usd for hp bonus. Max of 500 total hp gained, or 5 hp/level. Note that high con could start giving other benefits, eg, faster regeneration, resistance to poison, etc. + * Power is used for mana bonus. Max of 500 total mana, or 5 mana/level. Unlike current system where mana bonus is a mix of int and power, I'd suggest it just be power to make things simpler/more direct. How power could give faster regeneration - I'm not sure if it would get used for skills much. + * Charisma is currently not utilized much - some skills use it, but also used for shop pricing. I'd suggest that at 100 Charisma, a character can buy and sell items at near the same price (eg, if you sold something, you could buy it back for just a few percentage more than you sold it). Bargaining also affects pricing, but I suggest and and/or setup. Eg, the bonus from bargaining + bonus for charisma is added, and cap applied. Thus, a 50 bargaining/50 charisma character may get near best pricing as a 100 charisma or 100 bargaining character. One thought is that penalty for 'not the right shop' gets deducted, so a 100 bargaining/100 charisma may be able to sell anything and any shop and still get good prices. + + Note that since in many cases, the actual bonus for the attribute will be much less per level than current, starting at level 5 makes more sense - it means the bonus is more likely to be noticable. One other thought I had is that instead of attribute giving per level bonus, it is a straight bonus. Eg, each point of constitution gives a 5 hp bonus. The problem with this approach is that a character with a 30 attribute would get 50 hp more than a character with a 20. If one presumes that starting characters have about 50 hp, this really makes balance harder - smaller/per level bonuses make it much more predictable - at a 5 bonus/level, one can figure that at any given level, best hp the character has is 15 * level - realistically, it is going to be lower because a level 10 character is unlikely to have a 100 con. But this would certainly keep the range of hp/grace/mana at any given level fairly close. + + As far as improvements of attributes, I have following thoughts: + * There is no cap put in by potions, eg, if one can find enough potions, one can get 100 attribute. + * Make different variety of potions (minor, moderate, greater), but these determine attribute total it applies to. Eg, minor applies to when stats are up to 250 total, moderate is 500 total, and greater is 700 total. Idea behind make it work on total stats is that it once again provides some incentive to focus on stats. + * Perhaps remove the fact that potion is tied to different stat, eg, if you drink a stat improvement potion, you can improve any stat you want through some mechanism. + * Since there are now many more stat points, quests or rare treasures could also increase stats - these would have to be non repeatable, but one could imagine a strength training type quest which will increase the characters strength. + * Perhaps also allow spending of AP points to increase attributes (10 AP/point?) + * In general, it is harder to increase attributes than skills. One thought behind this is that for some attribute, many skills use it. Eg, a character with a high strength gets an advantage with all the weapon skills, where as if he increases swordsmanship, he is only better in that one skill. === Loose Ends === The examples here really just focused on the 3 main character archetypes (fighter, cleric, mage). Crossfire has many more than that, and I think this also helps them out. @@ -167,4 +202,14 @@ * have players start at level eg 5, so monsters level 1 can have a sense * powerful artifacts and items should be carefully balanced against that ; maybe a sword requiring a minimum level in one handed weapons? * maybe a possibility to use AP to get more HP/SP/GR? so you can level up all you want, and still have a (minor) benefit * add 'handicaps' to claim more AP? for instance, as a fighter, I choose 'no magic', which makes my sp recharge rate almost zero but gives me eg 5 AP I can use elsewhere ; need to balance so the points given by handicap can't be used to counterbalance said handicap, of course, and maybe limit how many handicaps one can take + + --- Mark Wedel 2011/02/09, in response to comments above: + * For level loss, do not try to do anything - it is just that much longer before character will get new AP and be able to increase anything + * Monsters should use same mechanism - I'm not sure they actually need a larger range + * Players starting at level 5 make sense. + * Balancing of items is very important. Putting in skill requirements (instead of item power) may make sense. Artifacts should also be properly balance between all the skills (eg, all the best weapon artifacts should not be swords - there should be some good hammers, axes, etc) + * Ability to use AP for other things is a possibility. Using it for hp/sp/grace should really be a near end game decision - until character has maxed out many skills, it should be of greater advantage to do that than increase hp/sp/grace. + * Advantages/disadvantages could be added - some advantages could cost AP points also, eg, fast regeneration. But I'd leave that for a later phase since that creates a complete new set of things that would need to get balanced. However, if that was balanced, one could then use that as a basis for balancing classes and races, eg, regeneration is worth 20 AP, see in dark is worth 10, so a race that starts those should really get 30 AP less. + + IP-Address : 173.228.106.192 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills?rev=1296986491 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Tue Feb 15 16:44:06 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:44:06 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: faq Message-ID: <1297809846.771260.22187.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/15 16:44 User : leaf Edit Summary: Format update and text updates for perm experience changes on the server @@ -608,18 +608,21 @@ ==== 5.2 How do I delete my character?? ==== Typing 'quit will permanently delete your character. This command works in all clients. With the GTK Client you can also select File -> Quit Character. + ==== 5.3 How do I modify permanent experience or experience lost due to death? ==== IMPORTANT: Making this changes requires the server to be recompiled! This change is made at the server level and requires admin access and other security rights on the server to do so. - Find the file called **settings** (located in lib/settings) and change //permanent_experience_percentage 50// to //permanent_experience_percentage 100// - This means Permanent Experience is now at 100%. Which means no levels should be lost upon player death. The attack type drain still causes a player to lose experience and levels though. You also need to change #define PERM_EXP_GAIN_RATIO 0.50f in the server source in include/config.h + Find the file called **settings** (located in lib/settings) and change //permanent_experience_percentage 50// to //permanent_experience_percentage 100// - This means Permanent Experience is now at 100%. Which means no levels should be lost upon player death. The attack type drain still causes a player to lose experience and levels though. + + Now find the file called **config.h** (located in include/) and change //#define PERM_EXP_GAIN_RATIO 0.50f// to //#define PERM_EXP_GAIN_RATIO 1.00f// and change //#define PERM_EXP_MAX_LOSS_RATIO 0.50f// to //#define PERM_EXP_MAX_LOSS_RATIO 0.00f// - Now recompile the server for this change to go in to place. Launch the server per normal methods. + Recompile the server for this change to go in to place. Launch the server per normal methods. ===== Chapeter 6 - Contact Questions ===== ==== 6.1 What methods exist for contacting the members of the crossfire development team or playing community? ==== IP-Address : 65.193.16.100 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/faq?rev=1292118172 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/faq -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Fri Feb 18 16:13:00 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:13:00 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:leaf Message-ID: <1298067180.636847.3358.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/18 16:12 User : Edit Summary: Spelling correction @@ -43,9 +43,9 @@ * I am focusing mostly on fixing issues and improving existing maps * I also review new maps that are submitted to the Maps mailing list or uploaded to SourceForge's Patch area - While I may provide feedback and comments and coding direction on actual code - I'm not a developer in that sense. I do not have the necessary coding background. I do not see that changing in the forseeable future either. ;-P + While I may provide feedback and comments and coding direction on actual code - I'm not a developer in that sense. I do not have the necessary coding background. I do not see that changing in the foreseeable future either. ;-P IP-Address : 65.193.16.100 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:leaf?rev=1229692244 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:leaf -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Mon Feb 21 16:17:22 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 16:17:22 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:ryo:stats Message-ID: <1298326642.201172.18885.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/21 16:17 User : ryo Edit Summary: update @@ -2,8 +2,12 @@ The aim of those tables is to list, in the current implementation, the various values statistics can have, based on existing equipment and such things. ====== Natural statistics, without equipment ====== + + This doesn't take into account base values from the race or class. + + ^ Statistics ^ Players ^^^ Monsters ^^ ^ ^ Modifiers ^ Min ^ Max ^ Min ^ Max ^ | armor class | Dex ; for players who can't use weapons, level | -4 ; base ac - level/3, capped to -10 | 7 | | weapon class | weapons, combat skill level, Str | level 0: 0 ; low Str: -2 ; total: 2 | level 115: 29; max Str: 5; total: -34 | ? | ? | IP-Address : 82.236.87.204 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:ryo:stats?rev=1274634097 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:ryo:stats -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Mon Feb 21 16:31:22 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 16:31:22 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:ryo:stats Message-ID: <1298327482.811425.18899.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/21 16:31 User : ryo Edit Summary: hp, sp, gr, update ac & wc for monsters, fix ac @@ -8,14 +8,14 @@ ^ Statistics ^ Players ^^^ Monsters ^^ ^ ^ Modifiers ^ Min ^ Max ^ Min ^ Max ^ - | armor class | Dex ; for players who can't use weapons, level | -4 ; base ac - level/3, capped to -10 | 7 | - | weapon class | weapons, combat skill level, Str | level 0: 0 ; low Str: -2 ; total: 2 | level 115: 29; max Str: 5; total: -34 | ? | ? | - | damage | combat skill level | 1 | 29 | - | HP | - | SP | - | GR | + | armor class | Dex ; for players who can't use armours, base ac - level/3 capped to -10 | ? | 7 | -120 | 30 | + | weapon class | weapons, combat skill level, Str | level 0: 0 ; low Str: -2 ; total: 2 | level 115: 29; max Str: 5; total: -34 | -100 | 25 | + | damage | combat skill level | 1 | 29 | ? | ? | + | HP | con value gives half -6 to 50 on 10 levels so -30 to 250 ; 2 points per level above 10 ; min 1 per level ; player hp modifiers for the 10 first levels | ? | ? | ? | ? | + | SP | pow and int bonuses ; 2 per level above 10 | ? | ? | ? | ? | + | GR | pow and wis bonuses ; 2 per level above 10 | ? | ? | ? | ? | | speed | ====== Weapon statistics ====== ^ Weapon ^ Min ^ Max ^ IP-Address : 82.236.87.204 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:ryo:stats?rev=1298326639 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:ryo:stats -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Mon Feb 21 16:36:51 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 16:36:51 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:ryo:stats Message-ID: <1298327811.723047.18906.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/21 16:36 User : ryo Edit Summary: reminders @@ -3,5 +3,14 @@ The aim of those tables is to list, in the current implementation, the various values statistics can have, based on existing equipment and such things. + + ====== Reminders ======= + * to hit: roll (with modifiers) >= 20 or target ac >= attack wc - roll (with modifiers) + * roll modifiers: darkness, layer difference, confused, ..., from -23 to +2 (theorically) + * roll: the higher the better + * ac: the lower the better + * wc: the lower the better + * dam: the higher the better + ====== Natural statistics, without equipment ====== This doesn't take into account base values from the race or class. IP-Address : 82.236.87.204 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:ryo:stats?rev=1298327478 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:ryo:stats -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Mon Feb 21 16:42:58 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 16:42:58 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:ryo:stats Message-ID: <1298328178.824624.18923.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/21 16:42 User : ryo Edit Summary: player race values @@ -42,11 +42,30 @@ ^ helmet | ^ boots | ^ gloves | ^ cloak | + + ====== Race base values ====== + ^ Race ^ ac ^ wc ^ hp ^ sp ^ gr ^ + | dwarf | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | elf | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | fenx | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | fireborn | 0 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | gnome | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | halfling | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | human | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | northman | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | fire hatchling | 5 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | orc | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | quetzalcoatls | 5 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | serpentman | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | troll | 10 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + | wraith | 6 | 21 | 30 | 30 | 30 | + + ====== Armor statistics ====== Only one of those will affect ac and wc ^ Armor type ^ Min wc ^ Max wc ^ Min ac ^ Max ac ^ Min speed ^ Max speed ^ ^ armour | ^ bracers | ^ force | IP-Address : 82.236.87.204 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:ryo:stats?rev=1298327807 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:ryo:stats -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Sat Feb 26 00:25:11 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 00:25:11 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:mwedel:skills Message-ID: <1298701511.550692.7075.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/26 00:25 User : mwedel Edit Summary: @@ -66,13 +66,25 @@ * This //fixes// problem of experience gains for skills. Some skills right now do not gain experience easily - while this should be fixed, some skills just do not lend themselves all that easily for a balanced experience advance, either because they are skills that are infrequently used and would need to then give a very big (and seemingly out of proportion) experience reward when used, or the fact they may be considered too easy to use, and one does not want to give easy experience away. Using skills would still gain experience, but it would got to the characters overall experience total. * This adds more choices during advancement and can give some goals for players. This is purely personal opinion, but I prefer having choices to make about character advancement - I don't want to do it every minutes, but when gaining a level is fine. And if more effects are put in for skills (at level 20, I get a chance to stun opponents with the hammer), it gives more incentive for characters to get to those points. Within current skill system, there are things you gain, but in most cases, a character is not going to really do much about them - if a character is killing things with their pyromancy skill, it is unlikely they are going to switch to using another skill because of a bonus they may get 4 levels later. I will note that the choice here is little like dragon characters get to make choices on focus and slowly increase resistances, which may be one reason that is a more popular character. - === Specific Skill Ideas === + ==== Specific Skill Ideas ==== These ideas are actually independent of the revised advancement system, but since this page is **skills**, seems like a good place to put them. - **Item Creation/Identification Skills** These are things like jewelery, smithery, bowyer, etc. The item creation aspect should get expanded so there are more easy things to create give minor amounts of experience (for example, smithing a dagger should not be a hard task). Identification of items should change - instead of there being a chance, it a straight level comparison - to identify a level 5 item, you need to be level 5 or greater in the appropriate skill. Non magical items would be level 1, each plus of an item might add one level, each 20% resistance adds one level, etc. Some formula could be determined for objects that do not have an item power setting. There are a few advantages of this: + I decided to look over the existing skills, and try to give a brief breakdown of how each will work, as well as merging some and removing others. + + === Skills Vs. Abilities === + + Skills should be areas of knowledge or physical ability that the character can improve (thus, spend AP points on). Some current crossfire skills are more like abilities - they let the character do a particular task, but that ability never increases (eg, levitate). In AD&D parlance, these would be feats. There is still a place for those - just they are not called skills. In fact, it may be the case the skills grant the characters with new abilities - the effectiveness of these abilities is related to the skills that grant them. A simple example of this is attacking - it is an ability the character has, but it improves as the skill does. + + One reason for skills giving abilities is that just having a single skill and saying 'use_skill ...' makes that command very context sensitive - for example, if you are on top of an altar, praying does something different than when you use it elsewhere. Some for some of the item creation/identification skills - if on top of the workbench, it tries to make an item, if not, it identifies in the inventory. + + I think it would be better to remove this ambiguity. Have smithery give two abilities - 'identify weapons' and 'craft weapon' as examples. Likewise, certain combat skills may have special actions that the character wish to use now and again, but not all the time. For example, there could be a 'sweep attack' which hits all enemies around the character, but for less damage. This would be handy if the character is wading through some lower level opponents, but might not be something they want to use all the time. + + === Item Creating & Identification Skills === + + These are things like jewelery, smithery, bowyer, etc. The item creation aspect should get expanded so there are more easy things to create give minor amounts of experience (for example, smithing a dagger should not be a hard task). Identification of items should change - instead of there being a chance, it a straight level comparison - to identify a level 5 item, you need to be level 5 or greater in the appropriate skill. Non magical items would be level 1, each plus of an item might add one level, each 20% resistance adds one level, etc. Some formula could be determined for objects that do not have an item power setting. There are a few advantages of this: * The server no longer needs to track if an identification attempt was made on the object or not - either the character succeeded or not, and retrying will not work better since there is no random chance. * Related to the above, a character can retry and perhaps succeed if they have increased the level in the skill. * Items can be traded in hopes that the other character may be able to identify them. @@ -80,15 +92,17 @@ * Greater level difficult for items could give much greater rewards - completely reasonable that if you are able to identify a level 20 item, you get lots of experience - there are not going to be many such items about. In many ways, this would just have it work the same as literacy and reading books - either you are sufficient level to read it, or you are not - there is no chance involved. - **Weapon Skills** + **Smithery, Jeweler, Alchemy, Bowyer, Literacy ** are current examples of these skills. It might be worth while adding something like leather worker or otherwise split up smithery some (armorer vs weapons)? Otherwise, smithery covers a much larger base then any of the other skills here. Literacy does have some other uses. + + === Weapon Skills === - One thought is to break down the weapon skills some - instead of the basic breakdown of one handed, 2 handed, and missile weapon (ignore the various hand to hand skills), do it more functionally - axes, clubs/maces/hammers, swords, spears, bows/crossbows. From the basic table above, it is likely that different classes may have a different mix on cost here. + Weapon skills get broken down and re-arranged some. Different classes may have a favorite (low cost one) and others are at a higher cost. - For example, fighters may be able to get all of those at cost 3. But clerics, following AD&D tradition, might be clubs/maces/hammers at cost 4 (they are still not as good as fighters), and the other weapon skills at cost 5, and perhaps some at cost 6. Paladins might get swordsmanship at cost 3, but higher cost for all the other skills - perhaps bow being cost 6, since paladins should really meet their foes in face to face combat. + For example, fighters may be able to get all of those at cost 3. But clerics, following AD&D tradition, might be clubs/maces/hammers at cost 4 (they are still not as good as fighters), and the other weapon skills at cost 5, and perhaps some at cost 6. Paladins might get swordsmanship at cost 3, but higher cost for all the other skills - perhaps bow being cost 6, since paladins should really meet their foes in face to face combat. Barbarians, being traditional people who uses axes, may get Axe at 3, and other ones at a higher costs. - In order to balance the system, one must think about what the advancement of the weapon skill is. Off the top of my head, this is what I've thought of - at first level, a character does damage around 10 @ speed 0.75. Weapon speed will peak at 2.0 - exactly when that happens could vary on a lot of factors - if the character is not wearing armor, they may get that speed much sooner, but there is clearly a disadvantage there. Weapon damage should peak around 35 for the weapon itself (note, there are many above that) - at first level, weapons the character is likely to find should be less than 10. A characters skill, at level 100, might give another 25 damage points, and strength 25 more. So that is a damage value of 85 @ 2.0 speed. That is a very big swing, but one also has to figure that at first level, the characters they are fighting have 0 armor, and at level 100, everything should have 75% armor. So that first level character 3.75 damage/tick on the actual creature, at level 100, the character would average 21.25 DPT to the actual creature - 5 times as much - but that opponent is also going to have a lot more hitpoints (probably closer to 10 times as many), so would take longer. + In order to balance the system, one must think about what the advancement of the weapon skill is. Off the top of my head, this is what I've thought of - at first level, a character does damage around 10 @ speed 0.75. Weapon speed will peak at 2.0 - exactly when that happens could vary on a lot of factors - if the character is not wearing armor, they may get that speed much sooner, but there is clearly a disadvantage there. Weapon damage should peak around 35 for the weapon itself (note, there are many above that) - at first level, weapons the character is likely to find should be less than 10. A characters skill, at level 100, might give another 25 damage points, and strength 25 more. So that is a damage value of 85 @ 2.0 speed. That is a very big swing, but one also has to figure that at first level, the characters they are fighting have 0 armor, and at level 100, everything should have 75% armor. So that first level character 3.75 damage/tick on the actual creature, at level 100, the character would average 21.25 DPT to the actual creature - 5 times as much - but that opponent is also going to have a lot more hitpoints (probably closer to 10 times as many), so would take longer. Those higher level characters are also likely to have a dodge skill. So there are lots of way to make the combat take sufficiently long time. Unfortunately, doing the math, a 1000 hp creature would be brought down in 53 ticks, or a bit under 7 creatures. IMO, such a creature should be epic (not a huge number of level 100 creatures about. Increasing armor or hit points would increase the time, but one should not have super well defended creatures. However, a lot of this is also based on character hit points - a high level character could have ~750 hit points if they really tried. I'd personally like to even out the con bonus so it is for all levels, not just the first 10 (a level 10 character with 30 con could conceivably have 500+ hp - how can one balance that when a more typical character is probably at ~120?). IP-Address : 173.228.106.192 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills?rev=1297320845 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Sat Feb 26 01:18:44 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 01:18:44 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:mwedel:skills Message-ID: <1298704724.445213.2945.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/26 01:18 User : mwedel Edit Summary: add more skill notes @@ -92,31 +92,65 @@ * Greater level difficult for items could give much greater rewards - completely reasonable that if you are able to identify a level 20 item, you get lots of experience - there are not going to be many such items about. In many ways, this would just have it work the same as literacy and reading books - either you are sufficient level to read it, or you are not - there is no chance involved. - **Smithery, Jeweler, Alchemy, Bowyer, Literacy ** are current examples of these skills. It might be worth while adding something like leather worker or otherwise split up smithery some (armorer vs weapons)? Otherwise, smithery covers a much larger base then any of the other skills here. Literacy does have some other uses. + **Smithery, Jeweler, Alchemy, Bowyer, Thaumturgy, Literacy ** are current examples of these skills. It might be worth while adding something like leather worker or otherwise split up smithery some (armorer vs weapons)? Otherwise, smithery covers a much larger base then any of the other skills here. Literacy does have some other uses. - === Weapon Skills === + **Woodsman** This is currently creation and identification of food, and reduced movement through forests. I think this should also incorporate harvesting - at least in the forest - each skill that pertains to a particular area should allow harvesting in that area vs a generic harvesting skill. + + === Combat Skills === Weapon skills get broken down and re-arranged some. Different classes may have a favorite (low cost one) and others are at a higher cost. For example, fighters may be able to get all of those at cost 3. But clerics, following AD&D tradition, might be clubs/maces/hammers at cost 4 (they are still not as good as fighters), and the other weapon skills at cost 5, and perhaps some at cost 6. Paladins might get swordsmanship at cost 3, but higher cost for all the other skills - perhaps bow being cost 6, since paladins should really meet their foes in face to face combat. Barbarians, being traditional people who uses axes, may get Axe at 3, and other ones at a higher costs. - In order to balance the system, one must think about what the advancement of the weapon skill is. Off the top of my head, this is what I've thought of - at first level, a character does damage around 10 @ speed 0.75. Weapon speed will peak at 2.0 - exactly when that happens could vary on a lot of factors - if the character is not wearing armor, they may get that speed much sooner, but there is clearly a disadvantage there. Weapon damage should peak around 35 for the weapon itself (note, there are many above that) - at first level, weapons the character is likely to find should be less than 10. A characters skill, at level 100, might give another 25 damage points, and strength 25 more. So that is a damage value of 85 @ 2.0 speed. That is a very big swing, but one also has to figure that at first level, the characters they are fighting have 0 armor, and at level 100, everything should have 75% armor. So that first level character 3.75 damage/tick on the actual creature, at level 100, the character would average 21.25 DPT to the actual creature - 5 times as much - but that opponent is also going to have a lot more hitpoints (probably closer to 10 times as many), so would take longer. Those higher level characters are also likely to have a dodge skill. So there are lots of way to make the combat take sufficiently long time. + In order to balance the system, one must think about what the advancement of the weapon skill is. Off the top of my head, this is what I've thought of - at first level, a character does damage around 10 @ speed 0.75. Weapon speed will peak at 2.0 - exactly when that happens could vary on a lot of factors - if the character is not wearing armor, they may get that speed much sooner, but there is clearly a disadvantage there. Weapon damage should peak around 35 for the weapon itself (note, there are many above that) - at first level, weapons the character is likely to find should be less than 10. A characters skill, at level 100, might give another 25 damage points, and strength 25 more. So that is a damage value of 85 @ 2.0 speed. That is a very big swing, but one also has to figure that at first level, the characters they are fighting have 0 armor, and at level 100, everything should have 75% armor. So that first level character 3.75 damage/tick on the actual creature, at level 100, the character would average 21.25 DPT to the actual creature - 5 times as much - but that opponent is also going to have a lot more hitpoints (probably closer to 10 times as many), so would take longer. Those higher level characters are also likely to have a dodge skill. So there are lots of way to make the combat take sufficiently long time. See section below about changing HP totals. - Unfortunately, doing the math, a 1000 hp creature would be brought down in 53 ticks, or a bit under 7 creatures. IMO, such a creature should be epic (not a huge number of level 100 creatures about. Increasing armor or hit points would increase the time, but one should not have super well defended creatures. + One addition to the skills beyond what they currently have is they should be able to identify weapons of the same type. For example, if you are high level in the Axe skill, and use axes all the time, it is completely reasonable that the character should be able to tell a lot looking at an axe. However, this identification only goes so far as weapons that use need the axe skill to use them - one could not identify swords with the axe skill. - However, a lot of this is also based on character hit points - a high level character could have ~750 hit points if they really tried. I'd personally like to even out the con bonus so it is for all levels, not just the first 10 (a level 10 character with 30 con could conceivably have 500+ hp - how can one balance that when a more typical character is probably at ~120?). + **Axe**, **Sword**, **Hammer/Mace/Club**, **Spear**: These break apart the one handed/two handed weapon skills. However, they also incorporate the throw skill - eg, the Axe skill will let you throw throwing axes, the sword skill lets you throw knives, etc. Throwing of misc objects (non weapons) becomes an ability - anyone can throw a flask and one does not need a specific skill for that (plus, I don't think such a skill would generally be valuable enough for most people to bother improving). Note that the logic/ability to throw items probably needs to be streamlined some with a better interface on the client to make it easier to do, but that is a different issue. - So if hit points is changed so that each level (all the way up to 100), they get a die roll of 1-10. So with lots of improvement potions, character now has 1000 hp from that. With maximum con, give them another 500 (5/level), for 1500 total. If one says it is reasonable for really tough (eg, epic boss creatures) to double character hit points, that give that creature 3000 hit points - now that is 140 ticks, or about 18 seconds, assuming creature has no regeneration, that character can constantly keep on the creature - not bad. + **Missile Weapons**: This is really bow and crossbow, and is unchanged. Improvement in this skill means faster firing rate and more damage when firing. - One effect of evening out the hit points for characters is that it improves balance. The level 10 creature is likely to always have 130 hp or so (characters start with 30) - a high con will give them a few more vs low con, but not nearly so drastic as it is now. + **Unarmed Combat**: This merges punching, flame touch, karate, clawing, wraith feed all into one skill. Certain races may be special abilities with this skill or it has other effects - eg, it does flame damage, it drains hp, etc. I don?t see a real need for these to all be separate - I just can not picture a dragon is going to be getting up and doing karate in any case. Note that for normal humans, this skill should generally be a bit weaker than the weapon skills above - there is a reason people pick up a sword to hit the other person with vs hand to hand - the sword is more effective. Probably simplest way to do this is that unarmed combat damage goes up just like the skills improve weapon damage - however, in this case, you don't have a weapon to increase the damage with. But for special characters, like dragons, they may have a symbolic dragon claw weapon which does go up in damage. - This is starting to get off topic from skills - main point was to try to determine a maximum damage rate for that maximum character with melee weapons - from there, one can then start to figure out what reasonable value for other spells are - for example, with an 21.25 DPT for melee weapon, one can also figure that a spell should do 21.25 DPT also at maximum level. + === Magic Skills === - A note on balance here (again) - if we assume the character has 1500 hit points, and that the DPT for unarmored is 75 (you go into an arena, or other person just attacks you), that is still 20 ticks (2.5 seconds) before you are dead - not a lot of time, but perhaps enough to do something. + These are largely unchanged - **air magic, fire magic, water magic, earth magic** work as they do now. Increasing level increases the potency of the spells, the spells you can cast, as well as the pool of sp. These also replace the summoning, pyromancy, evocation, and sorcery skills. - **Dodge** + **Divine Casting**: I don't really like the name of praying, but that is basically what skill this replaces. Anyone should be able to pray (innate ability), but characters with high divine casting get more favor. Given the proliferation of of cleric spells, it may also make sense to have more god specific spells - perhaps going so far as having god specific prayerbooks. There would still be various common spells - healing is only available via this divine spellcasting. This could be renamed better, but since what the characters are doing most of the time is casting priest spells, a skill that better describes that makes sense. + + === Thief/Bard Skills === + + These are perhaps not well balanced now, but my thoughts: + + ** Traps (find, remove, create)** This combines the find trap, remove trap, and set trap. As a general principal, it is easiest to find, harder to disarm, and harder still to make a trap. In terms of balance, a character should have a 50% chance to find a trap of the same level of the skill, a 25% chance to disarm, and 10% chance to make. Note that failure to disarm does not mean that trap goes off - it may be a 25% disarm, 50% no effect, 25% trap goes off. Note that because one can repeated search for traps, having it be a chance may not make a lot of sense - I know right now I just search 10 times, figuring I'll find it or a trap doesn't exist, so perhaps a straight level check is in order instead - I'm not really sure on that. The different facets of this skill could be done by the granted abilities, eg, having this skill gets you the find trap, disarm trap, and set trap abilities (I don't think that last was ever implemented, but if it was...). + + ** Thievery ** This combines hiding, lockpicking, and stealing. I think as individual skills, once again, I think they may be too broad/general to be worth advancing. Hiding should grant a sneak attack ability, which if the character is successfully hidden, does extra damage on the creature. A character should have perhaps a 75% chance of hiding against a creature of the same level, with various modifiers - bright light decreases this, as does armor and movement. An attack may decrease this chance 100%. It should take several ticks to start hiding - this gives a chance for monsters to spot the player - this time may decrease as the skill improves. Note, it is probably completely reasonable that a level 100 character in hide could sneak attack a level 10 monster and that level 10 monster still have no idea what happened, but a 0% chance to do that on a level 100 creature (he can get the sneak attack off, but the monster will spot the player). For lockpicking, chests should be given a level, and a 50/50 chance to unlock a chest/door of the same level. In order for there to be some penalty, there should be a chance of lock picks perhaps breaking - any case where a character can repeated try something with no ill consequence, there is no reason to have a check. Stealing should allow characters to steal items, even from shops, but it should be hard - but this one really does have consequences. + + **Singing/Oratory**: I suggest these two get combined into one skill - maybe just called singing - I think this being 2 unique skills just makes them too dilute. A character can calm (make non hostile) up to their level, and charm (make friendly) monsters up to 1/2 their level. There should be some time delay to start singing, and a character can not sing if in combat (eg, taking damage). + + **Acrobatics**: This combines jumping and climbing. As it stands, even this combined skill may be too weak for anyone to bother improving - maybe it also gives some minor dodge bonus also. + + **Bargaining**: As it is now, character gets better prices with higher skill. Really high skill may start to offset shop specialization (eg, you can sell spellbooks to the armorer for good prices). I'm not sure if that by itself would make it a good enough skill, so possibly including the ability to detect magic and cursed items as well as identify items (at a lower proficiency than the item skills themselves) may be reasonable - eg, if one is going to be buying/selling stuff all the time, they need to know what they are selling. + + === Misc Skills === + + **Literacy** Literacy would be as it is now - reading of various items. It should also incorporate inscription - once again, I think that as a unique skill would make it not useful enough - perhaps inscription at half the level of the literacy skill - for example, a level 10 literacy skill could inscribe level 5 scrolls. + + === Skills that Become Abilities === + + These are skills which never really improve, and thus are really abilities: + + **Detect Magic, Detect Curse** - while there is some level check, pretty much it hits everything. These should be given as innate abilities for classes/races which warrant it, and should be 100% success rate. Detect magic is a first level spell in any case, so really not giving much away to let some particular race/class use it all the time. + + **Meditation** - monk specific ability which never scales - give it as an ability to them + + **Levitation** - like meditation, this is given for certain races, but it never changes, so is really just an ability. + + **Use Magic Item** - all races/classes can use magic items, so this really is not necessary. If one really wanted to put checks in the ability to use wands, then that check should be in the thaumaturgy skill. The only reason this skill really exists is that a skill bucket was needed to put exp gained by using wands, etc. + + ====Dodge==== == AC/WC == Originally, I had mentioned the idea of getting rid of WC/AC, as these are to hard to balance. The basic reason is that AC for players can vary wildly - a character that is lucky and finds a few +2 items, such that their AC increases by 6 points is a major gain. On a d20 system, one might think that is 30%. But if one starts on the basis that maybe the monster hits the average AC creature 50% of the time, the improved AC creature gets hits 20% of the time, which is a 60% reduction. @@ -185,8 +219,17 @@ * Perhaps remove the fact that potion is tied to different stat, eg, if you drink a stat improvement potion, you can improve any stat you want through some mechanism. * Since there are now many more stat points, quests or rare treasures could also increase stats - these would have to be non repeatable, but one could imagine a strength training type quest which will increase the characters strength. * Perhaps also allow spending of AP points to increase attributes (10 AP/point?) * In general, it is harder to increase attributes than skills. One thought behind this is that for some attribute, many skills use it. Eg, a character with a high strength gets an advantage with all the weapon skills, where as if he increases swordsmanship, he is only better in that one skill. + + + === Hit/Sp/Grace Points === + + Much of balancing this depends on hit points. 1d10 hp + Con bonus/level seems good, with no 10 level cap on that. Just making it 10 hp/level actually makes things much simpler - a characters hit points is then level * (10 + Con Bonus). If Con bonus peaks at 5/level, that means at level 100, a character has 1500 hit points. + + I suggest similar mechanism be done for SP and Grace. Maybe not 10/level, but some fixed amount, but it scales all the way up to level 100. A problem with current system is that the stat bonus is very heavily loaded at low levels (potentially 25 points/level for the first 10) - this means that a level 10 character can have wildly different values based on attributes - as low as ~50 (minor penalty, poor roles) to 350 (max hp via improvement potions, 25/level). It is impossible to have balanced encounters for such a wide range. Now I realize that is very non typical, but a difference of 100 may not be that uncommon, since the bonuses go up dramatically as one gets up to 30. + + Not that SP/Grace would be bsed on skill level, while HP would be on overall level. === Loose Ends === The examples here really just focused on the 3 main character archetypes (fighter, cleric, mage). Crossfire has many more than that, and I think this also helps them out. IP-Address : 173.228.106.192 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills?rev=1298701509 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Sat Feb 26 01:51:34 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 01:51:34 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:mwedel:skills Message-ID: <1298706694.075942.2971.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/26 01:51 User : mwedel Edit Summary: add resistances refactor. @@ -228,8 +228,78 @@ I suggest similar mechanism be done for SP and Grace. Maybe not 10/level, but some fixed amount, but it scales all the way up to level 100. A problem with current system is that the stat bonus is very heavily loaded at low levels (potentially 25 points/level for the first 10) - this means that a level 10 character can have wildly different values based on attributes - as low as ~50 (minor penalty, poor roles) to 350 (max hp via improvement potions, 25/level). It is impossible to have balanced encounters for such a wide range. Now I realize that is very non typical, but a difference of 100 may not be that uncommon, since the bonuses go up dramatically as one gets up to 30. Not that SP/Grace would be bsed on skill level, while HP would be on overall level. + + === Resistances === + + Since I am talking about all other aspects of the game, might as well talk about resistances/attacktypes (they are almost the same thing) + + One problem as I see is that many of the attacktypes are really effects, and not an actual attacktype. So there are now 26 different attacktypes, which really makes having that number of resistances pretty ludicrous. + + So the idea is to merge some attacktypes (and thus resistances) for a more manageable number, and with that, one can actually start giving out more items that grant resistances. + + Note that some attacks have the idea of a character saving throw, which is to say that the character resists the effects. As a simple matter of balance, I would say a character of the same level of the attack has a 50% chance to make such a saving throw - abilities may increase that. Higher level characters against a lower level attack would have a greater chance (eg, a level 50 character against a level 40 attack may have a 75% chance, and against a level 30 attack, 100% chance). Note that the level of the attack would be the skill used to create it, in the case of a spell, which may be different than the level of the creature. + + Resistances would not increase this save, but would reduce the effects (less damage, shorter duration, etc). There may be a place for adding items that give actual bonus to the saves. + + Actual implementation of this may be that the attack code passes in the effect it should hit the creatures with - that effect might just be damage, or it could be fear, etc. + + Note that I've basically gone down the list of current attacktypes here, suggesting what they become. + + **Blunt, Piercing, Slashing**: This splits apart the generic physical into 3 sub categories - different weapons do different attacks - different items may also provide different levels of protection (chainmail may be very good against slashing, less good against blunt). A simple way to make this change is just take all armor values currently in the game and assign the blunt/piercing/slashing resistance as that value. I'm not 100% if splitting this is good or not - it certainly makes sense for some monsters (skeletons should have resist_piercing 90 for example), but it may just be that is too specific for this general split. + + Magic This has always been a messy one - the idea behind it goes back to AD&D where creatures had magic resistance - this corresponded to that - if the creature was hit with a magic attack, this resistance would apply. I think this should just get removed - we shouldn't care where the attack comes from (magic or otherwise), and removing it simplifies the code. + + **Fire, Electricty, Cold** These elemental resistances are fine, and are unchanged. + + Confusion This all becomes part of Mental + + **Acid** Remains, but the damaging of items needs to be revisited. + + Drain Becomes part of Negative Energy + + Weaponmagic This goes back to AD&D where certain creatures needed to be hit by magic weapons. Crossfire did this by giving such creatures immunity to physical, and some weapons had weaponmagic set. However, this is largely broken - very few creatures actually have resist_weaponmagic set, and things like normal armor should make one resistant to these attacks. In addition, under AD&D rules, a +1 sword would be magical, and thus could hit such creatures, but that doesn't work in crossfire - only a few artifacts have weaponmagic set. For these reasons, it should get removed, and if we really want to come up with some idea of 'needing magic weapons to hit', we should re-examine the best way to do that - but I personally think there will not be any great harm just removing this. + + Ghosthit Becomes part of Negative Energy + + Poison Becomes part of Fortitude + + Slow, Paralyze Becomes part of Mental + + Turn Undead Becomes part of Holy Fire + + Fear Becomes part of Mental + + Cancellation This is used so infrequently and is irreversible (it just removes the magic plus from items) that I think it should get removed - I don't think there would be any real change in play balance by removing this. + + DepletionBecomes part of Negative Energe + + DeathThis could really be any of Mental (frightening visage scares character to death), negative energy (drain all lifeforce) or fortitude - whatever the case, it doesn't need to be its own top level attack. + + Chaos This is really an administrative/effect - it is supposed to randomize for one of the other attacktypes, so characters should never be facing chaos itself. + + Counterspell Once again, this is an effect, can get removed. + + Godpower, Holyword These become part of Holy Fire + + BlindPart of fortitude. + + Internal: This continues to exist, but should never be visible to players - this is really just used when a convenient way to do damage to the character is done (eg, ceiling collapsing, crushing you, character is dead) - it probably should be used sparingly. + + Life StealingPart of negative Energy + + DiseasePart of Fortitude + + **Mental** (new) This new attack encompasses all attacks that try to effect the mind - confusion, slow, paralyze, fear + + **Negative Energy** (new) This covers all attack forms where some aspects of the character lifeforce is being attacked or threatened. Not that in a basic mode, it may just do HP damage, with other attacks draining experience, stats, etc. It encompasses dragin, ghosthit, depletion, death + + **Fortitude** (new) I need a new name for this, but basically this covers all attacks which try to do some physical effect (poison, disease, blindness) + + **Holy Fire** (new) This describes all effects which are attributed to the power of the god - covers godpower, holyword, turn undead. Actual effect depends on the attack. + + With these changes, there are now 11 attacktypes (not including internal, but including 3 new ones for physical) - this is a much more manageable number IMO, and much more reasonable to give out resistances for any/all of these. === Loose Ends === The examples here really just focused on the 3 main character archetypes (fighter, cleric, mage). Crossfire has many more than that, and I think this also helps them out. IP-Address : 173.228.106.192 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills?rev=1298704720 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Sat Feb 26 01:52:50 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 01:52:50 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:mwedel:skills Message-ID: <1298706770.146385.2974.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/26 01:52 User : mwedel Edit Summary: fix typo @@ -255,9 +255,9 @@ Confusion This all becomes part of Mental **Acid** Remains, but the damaging of items needs to be revisited. - Drain Becomes part of Negative Energy + Drain Becomes part of Negative Energy Weaponmagic This goes back to AD&D where certain creatures needed to be hit by magic weapons. Crossfire did this by giving such creatures immunity to physical, and some weapons had weaponmagic set. However, this is largely broken - very few creatures actually have resist_weaponmagic set, and things like normal armor should make one resistant to these attacks. In addition, under AD&D rules, a +1 sword would be magical, and thus could hit such creatures, but that doesn't work in crossfire - only a few artifacts have weaponmagic set. For these reasons, it should get removed, and if we really want to come up with some idea of 'needing magic weapons to hit', we should re-examine the best way to do that - but I personally think there will not be any great harm just removing this. Ghosthit Becomes part of Negative Energy IP-Address : 173.228.106.192 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills?rev=1298706690 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/ From no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org Sun Feb 27 15:08:40 2011 From: no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org (no-reply_wiki at metalforge.org) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 15:08:40 -0600 Subject: [Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:mwedel:skills Message-ID: <1298840920.599811.12928.nullmailer@metalforge.net> A page in your DokuWiki was added or changed. Here are the details: Date : 2011/02/27 15:08 User : ryo Edit Summary: fix missing / @@ -261,9 +261,9 @@ Weaponmagic This goes back to AD&D where certain creatures needed to be hit by magic weapons. Crossfire did this by giving such creatures immunity to physical, and some weapons had weaponmagic set. However, this is largely broken - very few creatures actually have resist_weaponmagic set, and things like normal armor should make one resistant to these attacks. In addition, under AD&D rules, a +1 sword would be magical, and thus could hit such creatures, but that doesn't work in crossfire - only a few artifacts have weaponmagic set. For these reasons, it should get removed, and if we really want to come up with some idea of 'needing magic weapons to hit', we should re-examine the best way to do that - but I personally think there will not be any great harm just removing this. Ghosthit Becomes part of Negative Energy - Poison Becomes part of Fortitude + Poison Becomes part of Fortitude Slow, Paralyze Becomes part of Mental Turn Undead Becomes part of Holy Fire IP-Address : 82.236.87.204 Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills?rev=1298706767 New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skills -- This mail was generated by DokuWiki at http://wiki.metalforge.net/