[CF-Devel] Okay here goes... my thoughts
dnh at hawthorn.csse.monash.edu.au
dnh at hawthorn.csse.monash.edu.au
Sun Oct 8 07:23:32 CDT 2000
On Sat, 7 Oct 2000, Peter Mardahl wrote:
>
> Okay, this might turn out to be alittle long... sorry.
>
>
It was interesting.
Thanks I appreciate it =)
>
>
> Gods
>
> Firstly, diseases, I have never actually managed to get one (I have three
>
> chars all about level 110) althought I have never really spent much time
>
> trying. Does devourers give the plagues? (i really hope so =) I have been
>
>
No, devourers gives no diseases because they don't use "path wounding".
>
okay.. I disagree here... Devourers is the god of all things nasty, sure
something in the disease department? thinking black plague (make little
mice come out =))
>
> Retributive strike.... WOW! that spell is, sorry to say it, rubbish.
>
> Firstly, i cast face of death a few times and my key accidently sticks,
>
>
Are you saying that face of death killed you? That should be impossible.
>
If retributive strike killed you... no comment.
>
Have you ever experienced retributive? (ps it was that which killed me not
face of death). It takes of 100 hp per hit, and there is nothing to
protect you. If you haven't yet seen this.. I advise you to have a shot at
it.. just to see what it is like... it comes as easily as mostrais
confuse.........
>
> Mostrai... I pretty much no negative god (except maybe the slaying =).
>
>
I've long thought the religions were out of balance, but I don't play
>
enough to know how out of balance, and no one 'till now has responded
>
to my request, "Hey, are the religions out of balance? I want to grant
>
disease spells to specific religions so they'll be rebalanced."
>
>
Diseases can easily be tuned from wimpy to awesomely powerful.... They
>
can fix balance issues.
>
yes, except maybe ruggillis.. see below..
>
> I feel Sorig is well balanced, although i haven't really played around
>
> with plague so i am ignorant there. Perhaps the suggestiong of instead of
>
> plagues giving elec spells? (hint: CHAIN LIGHTNING /hint)
>
>
Chain Lightning would seem to fall under the mage spell umbrella.
>
If you want to code it, we could stick it in the game though.
>
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes! =)
School finishes in 5 weeks, then I intend to get stuck in >=) I am happy
to have a shot at this. Chain lighting was the most rad spell in diablo, I
am think it would be a cross between ball lightning (a crappy spell) and
normal lightnings. It would chain ever 4 - 10 squares depending on level,
and what split randomly...
>
> Most of the other gods are abit tame for my tastes, Ruggillis avatar
>
> rawks.. but no armour really means only my dragon has any use for it at
>
> all.
>
>
I think that is fine.
>
mmmmmmmmmm, well, Rugilli is one of the most 'powerful' and yet only
one/two really can use it? nah! There has to be something that can be
done?? I am thinking maybe super fast regen? prot phys as well?
something... *cries* (Come on.. it has the best name.. surely something
can be done =))
>
> lastly, cult monsters are abit of a stange thing.. devourers gets all
>
> these, while mostrai gets the crappy things i ever did see.. even the arch
>
> warrior of mostria is gay. They creatures have about as much brains as a
>
>
Hahahaha. Does mostrai NEED a powerful set of cult monsters or do
>
the other spells allow reasonable advancement ability? If not needed for
>
balance, I don't think we should change it.
>
yeah actually in hindsight I agree, perhaps ruggilli could kind turn it up
here? of course it might be BADDD having lose dragons... ops.. I toasted
you......
>
As to the mess pets make in an apartment, well, it's up to YOU to potty-train
>
them. Just blow a few spells over them if they won't learn to kill
>
them off.
>
yeah.. I am thinking kinda of newbies.. I would never let them in now..
but it seems alittle lame that camps just read everything they see..?
>
> Characters.
>
>
>
> Well my only few gripes are, Quetzecoatls get REALLY jibbed at high
>
>
Yeah, I realize that, and so are the Fireborn, to an even greater extent.
>
I've already addressed this to some degree in my proposal to do a
>
class/race split that I sent yesterday. Will you read it and comment?
>
I compensate Fireborn and Quetzalcoatls for their drawbacks by giving
>
extra net stats and some special abilities.
>
yes yes yes.... I read it and I agree.. they need stat advantages not dis
ads.. did you read my stuff about girdles etc? I think that might REALLY
help too...
>
> worn? ps. the image for the Q is abit stuffed, it always wants to point to
>
> the left making it very slow to move without actually running, you press
>
> move it turns steps then turns around again (lag hurts for this alot).
>
>
I've no idea what to do about THAT.
>
umm well, I haven't really looked at code.. maybe a flag that says remain
in last direction moved? dunno...
>
> I feel the half orc gets alittle over balanced with the prot poison. later
>
> on most if not all characters will not be worried about poison so taking
>
> so many points of stats is alittle unfair.
>
>
Hmm. See my recent post to this list on class/race split.
>
yup okay.. would love to see you ideas for race/caste... I played to death
a game called Realmz for mac (www.fantasoft.com), check it out if you can.
That is prob your best bet for races? ps. elves supposedly can't heal
themselves with the normal magic... nor can they gain faster regens,
perhaps more could be worked from that (I am a fantasy lover =))
>
> Wraith is neat, perhaps immune to disease would be nice in there?
>
>
Done already in the CVS repository by adding "undead 1" to the wraithplayer
>
archetype. I removed "protected physical" as compensation, and added
>
"immune poison". (All of which makes sense for a wraith).
>
okay, yes undead should defn be immune poison.. but slower... ? the wraith
in Feist moves so slow you can almost out walk it... and they get canned
by light? all that could be worked..
ps are wraiths affected by holyword? if they are now undead I spose they
are? perhaps abit more warning on the effects of killing players with holy
word should be put up? I accidently killed a player called Fizban with it
once (sorry Fizzy) and I found you lose ALL your exp.
>
> the other characters are all goodish, barb, wiz, dwarf and some warriors
>
> are by far the prefered.
>
>
Under my new system, all classes are stat-neutral (not counting Cha) except
>
Monk, who get +5 net stats as compensation for not being able to use weapons.
>
yuppo, monks are sweet... next cast I intend to have a shot at.. perhaps
abit of a speed improvement there would be cool? and a spell (just came up
with this) actually it could almost be a skill *grin*... lighting hands?
boosts your attack speed by 1 or two for a short period.. that would RAWK!
>
> now for my BIG point (which I am very willing to have a shot at
>
> implementing), protection/immunity.
>
>
Are you talking about partial protections adding much like armor?
>
This patch has been written, has been done, and is waiting for Mark to
>
merge it. (Mark is the head developer guy).
>
MARK! DOOOO IT! =)
>
Like a protected 50 fire + protected 40 fire = protected 70 fire?
>
yes exactly... ohhhhh this is wonderful, this is a really great
improvement!
>
> I admit I know where the WDSM is and i did have help in finding it and i
>
> think it would be easy to balance it out, just remove immune cold from
>
> there (leave prot cold). I think without that the game is alittle silly,
>
>
Heh. I don't know enough about the mapset yet to get WDSM. I code more
>
than I play. (Therefore, I need people like you to help me with play
>
balance.)
>
>
The pupland maps got changed recently to make WDSM lots harder to get,
>
and to add startequip 1 to it, so that if you drop it, it's gone.
>
yeah red_blaze told me he had done it just needed to put it in.. he is
sour cause he worked out how to get WDSM and now we all have it =)
I like the drop/done thing... but I can see some problems with it...
accidents etc.. perhaps just a thing like prepare weapon? once you wear
the armour it becomes yours hence no one else can wear it? maybe even if
you just pick it up?
>
> Obviously the sword should be godarised after it has the damage types not
>
> the slaying, this I feel would allow the devourers abit more chance in the
>
> pantheon and stop those
>
> (weaponmagic)(elec)(fire)(death)(depletion)(drain)'s from popping up?
>
>
People seem to agree with you. Whenever a god touches a weapon it should
>
be consecrated to that god, and no other god would touch it after that
>
except to destroy it. Want to code this up? It shouldn't be hard.
>
I'll put the patches in for you.
>
yup.. ill have a crack, should be to hard at all......*hopes*
>
> ps. could someone tell me, if you get slaying then those damages only
>
> attack the creature that is slayer correct? ie if the aforementioned
>
>
No, I believe the attacktypes always apply, but the monster appearing in
>
the "slaying" get triple damage or something.
>
WHAT?! I was told by red_blaze.. and I read in an email this wasn't the
case... ps, why then does a weapon mostraid not seem to death things
anymore? if I don't put mostrai on it... I kill the dragons in
dragonhanger first hit... with mostrai it is 5000 hits =)
If this is not the case.. damn it! I am switching to Kobold dagger.. =)
>
> My first idea (I don't really like calamity, I feel it is not pretty and I
>
> like my weapons to look pretty... GO THE SHOOTINGSTAR!! =)) was to add
>
>
Calamity got toned down somewhat recently, and yeah, it is ugly, deliberately.
>
It's a spectre's sword, remember, that existed by sucking the lifeforce
>
of a king. :) It is supposed to be destroyed. I've gotta make the
>
Lord Spectre a bit more rare, I guess.
just turn the weapon speed down even more.. that should get high level
players upset =) (make it as slow as bonecrusher or something hehehe =)
I don't mean ugly in that sense.. it is just boring.. a shooting star is
unique it looks cool.. there are at least 3 weapons I can think of with
the same image as calamity? perhaps if you use that new strange weapon
image? (look at spoilers/weapons/first or second weapon)
I did the scorn quests! WHICH I LOOOOVE! I love getting titles.. everyone
on voldsboks loves them too... pity about random maps crashing all the
time ={.. do you realise this is happening? if not.. go onto voldsboks and
see for yourself.
>
> weapon is considered the same as a dagger of sorig? correct? so you can't
>
> add your god to it? bahhhd. I understand a Darth_bob's dagger of sorig of
>
>
I don't know.
hmm, ANYONE? this seems important to me.. I am willing to encode this if
it is not already...
>
>
> A too heavily counted on item I think. Dragons and fireborn get completely
>
> jibbed, no armour and crappy stats. The only way to get immunity to fire
>
> is through armour which is also silly. Enchant armour scrolls make the
>
>
"Immunity to fire" is what is silly. Though fireborn and quetzalcoatl's
>
start out immune to fire. immunity to fire isn't silly.. it is just on a
too powerful item.... Qs and Fs get way underpowered.. I think as levels
go up.. Q's and F's should get some extra bonus for higher levels... see
realmz for that idea... they do it well
>
> stuff god like, ac - 57 and arm of 99... nothing touches you except
>
> lightning the major magic and disease. either making it get heavier
>
> faster.... with WDSM it stops getting heavier after 6.7 because it has
>
> already got +90? that seems to be a bug to me cause you can keep
>
> enchanting and get the AC higher without the weight restrictions.
>
>
I thought enchant armor stopped working after a certain point. Maybe
>
you're working with an outdated crossfire server? But if not, this
>
is something else I invite you to fix and submit patches for. umm yeah
it stops working after +12... but if you have high enough magic.. then you
can get armour on an item up to +90 no sweat.. then after that it stops
getting heavier with each improve.. so you get higher AC at no loss..
>
> I am thinking of designing abit more map... perhaps including some nice
>
> armour... much like the great winter mail but for fire.. I thought perhaps
>
> with enough minus.. even immunity to fire could be balanced abit =)
>
>
Talk Mark into putting in the partial protection stuff.
pokes marc around with stick....if you have done it d00d, submit submit
submit =)
>
(
mwedel at scruznet.com
)
>
>
> Enemies/creatures
>
>
>
> I love fighting everying in Crossfire and it is hard to grow tired.. even
>
> after getting to the stage where Balrogs and Greater demons are just cool
>
> to look at... It really bugs me about how demonlords though, for example
>
> can fire lightning out there shoes (crazy shoes). It kinda removes abit of
>
> the strat from an attack.. perhaps smacking a demonlords feet might be its
>
> weakness for example? This to me sounds like real strategy.
>
>
Demonlords are weak anyway.
*cough* HELLFIRE? *cough*
I don't use Valriel.. it is wimpy god... anyway.. that doesn't work
against balrogs and Greater demons...
Blow a few holy word spells across them
>
and they're gone. Of course, you have to be a follower of Valriel,
>
but that's my favorite religion. (I don't play that much so I don't
>
know better.) But coding to make their "feet" weak would be a difficult
>
hack that I wouldn't want done anyway. The demonlord is actually very
>
tall looking down, conceptually, whatever the image may look like.
>
>
> All the big fire things IMHO are overpowered, sure a chinese dragon
>
> hurts.. but at least you can fry them, dragons are strong enough that you
>
> cant attack them in time, and baby dragons.. those things are worse than
>
> dragons... immune fire and resistant to both magic and ice??? they die
>
> after all the dragons... what is going on there...
>
>
Yeah, I hate those little suckers. They're far worse than "big" dragons.
>
Far worse. The little dragons *I* made, the dragon hatchlings in the
>
dragon pit, THOSE are good baby dragons. They're actually wimpy, not
>
1/2 a dragon crammed into 1/6 the space!!! (Read, 3x nastier).
>
And with protected ice and magic? 6x nastier or even 12x.
>
mmm could we do something.. perhaps turn them into a completely different
breed of dragon? (hell dragon? emerald dragon (play around with palette))
>
> which reminds me.. another question, if a creature is big does it take
>
> damage from every square? ie wizards get a total 9x the damage from a holy
>
>
Yes. That's why I like to use holy word on the big demons in particular.
>
With the Partial Protection scheme, you could give a big sucker like that
>
95% resistance to those spells, to compensate for their HUGE crossection.
>
>
As it is, the only recourse is to give 50% protection and give 'em GOBS
>
of hitpoints, effectively screwing the poor fighters.
>
yeah you said it.. and I think that is wrong.. I don't think wisdom spells
should have that kind of advantage over BIG things.. even mostrai (demon
lord is a giant? hmmm)
>
> word than a goblin or demilich would? cause I think it sucks how the big
>
> things all die first, and the little toots survive. perhaps / the damage
>
> taken by the number of sqaures the creature is? that would make wizards
>
>
Partial protections, man! It would fix this SO neatly.
>
Give the big suckers protections in the 80% to 90% range. perhaps...
perhaps... but protection from what? holy power? I spose so... then even
greater demons etc could have the immunity removed?
>
> I have been reading through the arguements in this mailing list about
>
> balance.. I feel alot of it is rubbish.. I personally find it very
>
> difficult to start some new characters.. and I know alot of newbies who
>
>
Yeah, the game is too easy for the experts who know all the cheats
>
and too hard for everyone else. I can't tell you how many times
>
I've had my wraith roasted by fire. They have depleted con and vuln
>
fire, boy do they roast easily.
mmmhmmmm well said.. and it is all the experts that are having the crys
over it... if you think it is to easy.. stop playing for awhile.. then
come back fresh =)
>
> are STILL having real problems at level 20 or >. I feel the Gods are abit
>
> gay with half being almost "non commital" to the users and giving pretty
>
> much nothing really cool or really bad, and the other half (Devourers and
>
> Rug especially) getting way to much of the old Neg.. no armour for Rug is
>
> not balanced fairly...
>
>
Well, for Rug, I think it means that only Q's would want that religion,
>
which I think is fine. Devourers is good for wraiths: I was considering
>
adding a "cause many wounds" spell, which would work like bullet storm
>
or bullet storm, and finally give Devourers a way to advance that isn't
>
like cleaning a cargo ship with a toothbrush.
hmm maybe? mmmm perhaps a level above avatar? an even greater god thingy?
>
> I feel there is a real lack of mid danger creatures... wyverms and nice..
>
>
Hah hah. I've begged on the list several times for people to draw me some
>
2-square demon images. There needs to be demons middle in power to the
>
"devil" and the "big demon". No demon images have come. My artwork sucks,
>
even though I did the Greater Demon image. (I stole that one, sshhhh!)
GREATER DEMONS ARE MY FAVORITE MONSTERS!! =) Wizards a close second...
yeah some hell spawn? succubus? shadow creatures? demonspawn (really
crappy little devil things that reproduce quite quick unlike demons)
>
> perhaps I should focus my map making attention on the low 20s of 50s
>
> level? make something similar to mwizard for those levels.. (ie not so
>
>
That would be cool. Use the random map generator to help you. Even
>
if you don't include outright random maps in the game, you can use
>
the random map generator to make a level for you that you can then edit.
>
I find it quicker and easier to start from. That's one of the reasons
>
I wrote the random map maker and no one but me has taken advantage of it.
>
yes if you can stop random gen being so buggy I think I will, and it is
really good to also mix it up abit.. put some levels that aren't random
in with some puzzles? perhaps a random map.. that updates while you are
still in it?? woooo hoooooooo yeah =)
>
> Since I am still praying to devourers to give plague.. (hoping they dang
>
>
Forget about it. Useless, until something is changed.
time to change it I think... =) give em something more??? face of death is
cool.. but REALLY gay at low levels.. man you can't kill anything worth
points.. I am at level 35 I still can't kill beholders..
>
>
> Partying up is good fun.. perhaps making sure that how ever something is
>
> killed.. that area of skill is shared and that only.. (so that you can't
>
> just party up and let one char sit there and build wis while the other is
>
>
Uh, yeah, I think you're right. I don't want to code this, will you
>
do it?
will have a shot
>
>
> end for making a fine game with some BRILLIANT ideas.. (I like diseases..
>
> never played with that sort of thing before). There is heaps of room for
>
>
Thank you. Diseases were my thing, my answer to the question, "Some religions
>
are too wimpy, how can we balance them?" "Give them diseases as attack
>
spells." However, no one got round to telling me which religions sucked, and
>
how much "help" they each needed. Another shortcoming of diseases is
>
that no one has retrofitted maps/creatures to use disease against players.
>
(with a few exceptions: diseased needles and liches and spectres).
>
mmmmmmm, what can I say... you are a legend d00d =) I have a good
suggestion... see bottom
>
And as to diseases, the ones in the game so far don't even scratch the
>
surface of what's possible with them: diseases which sap mana only,
>
diseases which cause periodic fits of madness (attacktype confusion!),
>
diseases which actually ENHANCE spellpoint/hp regen, diseases which
>
make you eat more. (actually, tapeworms.) Diseases which ENHANCE
>
stats.
>
I LIKE!!!
>
> dnh (aka Darth_bob the Tall, Articous the Strange and Carrot the Suicidal)
>
>
Have you tried the server at crossfire.csua.berkeley.edu yet?
>
I *try* to keep it up-to-date.
>
will pop in sometime ill give you a bell ehh =)
>
PeterM
>
OKAY listen in... it is time for #crossfire... I suggest IRCnet... say the
worlds and ill set it up.. put some bots in.. pay some friends to come in
I know a few people who would probab stay in there alot.. and one who has
a great bot that could move in... #freeciv is the best place to have these
kind of discussions... and large debates can easily happen with good
results. I think the player bass is there, send word round on all the
servers... Pete... ALL your problems might be fixed in terms of
communication =)
Chew on that, and do implement the race/caste thing after having alook at
realmz.
dnh (AKA ....)
More information about the crossfire
mailing list