[CF List] Too stupid...

[Raphael Quinet]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001, Mark Wedel wrote:
 > "Andrew D. Bagdanov" wrote:
 >> All in all, I think the minimum level suggestion makes the most sense,
 >> but it still doesn't prevent gifting of artifacts.  Levels are pretty
 >> easy to gain in a straightforward, mechanical way once you're beyond a
 >> certain point.
 >
 > True, but it seems the big problem isn't a level 50 character giving the level
 > 30 character something, but the level 50 character giving the level 5 character
 > somthing.  And at some point, the player can just get the artifact itself.
 > Presumably the level requirements are roughly what level the map designer
 > expects the character to be when they complete the quest.  It is of course
 > possible that some characters may be a lower level when they get the item
 > (through either very good play, or using lots of expendible magic items like
 > potions, or just the nature of the character (between race, class, and 
religion,
 > perhaps they have really high resistance for what they meet on that map).

Yes, this is very important: I would hate to find a map in which I
spend a lot of time fighting tough monsters using several expensive
potions and wands, and then reach a treasure room that contains only
some artifacts that I cannot use because my current level is lower
than what the map maker recommended.

 > You can't ever really make something fullproof.  But the idea is to get a close
 > enough approximation that doesn't cause a bunch of side effects.

Since the problem occurs mostly with low-level characters, the
artifacts could be made unusable by players that are lower than level
8 or 9.  With the current set of maps, I think that a player who has a
level between 1 and 5 should stay inside Scorn, a level between 5 and
10 is suitable for some (non-artifact) quests, and a level above 10 or
20 is usually required for the artifact quests.  Since some level 20
quests could be solved by a good team of level 10 players, setting the
threshold for the artifacts around level 8 or 9 should prevent most
abuses without ruining the fun for a team of players who managed to
get through a high-level quest.  This threshold would be fixed for all
artifacts so that the map makers would not have to take care of it.

But there is another solution that could be more interesting IMHO:
allow the map maker to set the level for the artifacts (default values
would be in the archetypes) according to the expected level for the
quest.  Then the artifact (weapon or armour) would behave as follows:
- If the player's level is higher or equal, then it works as usual
- If the player's level is lower, but more than half of the artifact
   level, then every once in a while there is a 10% chance that the
   artifact is unapplied automatically.  The frequency of these random
   events could depend on the difference in levels.  For example, the
   delay could be 1 minute divided by the level difference.
- If the player's level is lower than half of the artifact level, then
   instead of being unapplied at random, the artifact would be dropped
   to the ground.

This should be enough to discourage low-level players from accepting
powerful items given by high-level players.  Imagine that you are a
level 5 fighter running through a room full of demons and wyverns with
a shield that makes you immune to most attacks and a very powerful
weapon that kills these beasts before you even see them... then
suddently you see the message "Your Shield of Immunity glows with
power - you cannot hold it anymore." or even "Your Hackslayer+30
vibrates violently and falls to the ground".  You would probably be
in deep trouble...

With this system, the low-level players could accept the gifts from
high-level players only if they are willing to take the risks...  And
if their level is too low, they would not be able to keep these items
for more than a few seconds because the random throws for dropping or
unapplying the artifacts would occur very frequently.

-Raphael