[CF List] Too stupid...

[Andrew D. Bagdanov]

Mark Wedel writes:
 > Raphael Quinet wrote:
 > >
 > 
 > > Yes, this is very important: I would hate to find a map in which I
 > > spend a lot of time fighting tough monsters using several expensive
 > > potions and wands, and then reach a treasure room that contains only
 > > some artifacts that I cannot use because my current level is lower
 > > than what the map maker recommended.
 > 
 >  Liberal minimum level estimates could be put in place (2/3'rd or ½
 > min level on the artifact).  And even if your just a little bit
 > lower, it just means you need to gain a little exp and then you can
 > use the item.
 > 
 > 

This makes sense, since I think we all agree that the problem is with
gifting to extremely low level characters.

 > > Since the problem occurs mostly with low-level characters, the
 > > artifacts could be made unusable by players that are lower than level
 > > 8 or 9.  With the current set of maps, I think that a player who has a
 > > level between 1 and 5 should stay inside Scorn, a level between 5 and
 > > 10 is suitable for some (non-artifact) quests, and a level above 10 or
 > > 20 is usually required for the artifact quests.  Since some level 20
 > > quests could be solved by a good team of level 10 players, setting the
 > > threshold for the artifacts around level 8 or 9 should prevent most
 > > abuses without ruining the fun for a team of players who managed to
 > > get through a high-level quest.  This threshold would be fixed for all
 > > artifacts so that the map makers would not have to take care of it.
 > 
 >  Level 8-9 can be achieved in probably just a few hours of play.
 > And I believe some of the bigger problems are not the things like
 > dragon shields or dragon armor, but rather truly unique artifact
 > (map customizations) on very high level maps - maps require level
 > 50+ characters.  It is presumably those artifacts that are really
 > going to have the minimum levels, so they can be made pretty good
 > without the worry of them being given to 5'th level characters.
 > 

I must admit that I've never seen artifacts of this caliber given away
before, but I don't play on an extremely active server...

 > 
 > > - If the player's level is lower, but more than half of the artifact
 > >    level, then every once in a while there is a 10% chance that the
 > >    artifact is unapplied automatically.  The frequency of these random
 > >    events could depend on the difference in levels.  For example, the
 > >    delay could be 1 minute divided by the level difference.
 > 
 >  I have a feeling there will be lots of complaints about this -
 > when a character dies because that artifact became unequipped,
 > people are not going to be happy.  And what someone can easily do
 > is write/modify a client that looks for these things, and then
 > automatically re-equipes it for them (giving basically the lag time
 > of it actually not being equipped).
 > 

I think this would be more confusing than anything else.  I think it
would be better if the atrifact's attributes scaled with the
character's level.  That way it a character would be more interested
in "growing his own" enchanted weapons until reaching a level where
artifacts become useful.

 > > - If the player's level is lower than half of the artifact level, then
 > >    instead of being unapplied at random, the artifact would be dropped
 > >    to the ground.
 > > 
 > > This should be enough to discourage low-level players from accepting
 > > powerful items given by high-level players.  Imagine that you are a
 > > level 5 fighter running through a room full of demons and wyverns with
 > > a shield that makes you immune to most attacks and a very powerful
 > > weapon that kills these beasts before you even see them... then
 > > suddently you see the message "Your Shield of Immunity glows with
 > > power - you cannot hold it anymore." or even "Your Hackslayer+30
 > > vibrates violently and falls to the ground".  You would probably be
 > > in deep trouble...
 > 
 > [... snip ...]
 >
 >  Another suggestion tossed out a long time ago would be giving
 > artifacts and effective ego, and if the ego of all your artifacts
 > is above your level by some ratio, bad things start happening.
 > This would apply to both low and high level characters - a high
 > level character may be able to get all the best artifacts, but
 > wearing them all at the same time may go above his ego total.  And
 > for low level characters, one artifact may be above the ego total.
 > 
 >  Now what happens in that circumstance could by anyones guess.
 > Different artifacts could even do different things (some may
 > confuse the player, others may only let the player attack, others
 > could drain sp/hp/mana/food, etc).  But this then falls into the
 > above area again - could be too obnoxious.  It may be cute the
 > first few times you see it, but if your using just above your ego
 > and die because something strange happens, you probably are not
 > going to be very happen by the extreme randomness.

This seems exceedingly complicated to me if it's only intended to
solve the artifact gifting problem.  It might enhance gameplay in
other ways, but it would certainly have far-ranging impact on all
characters -- high and low level.

I think there is consensus that level minimums are the solution to
this problem, but ideas about what happens below minimum level vary
wildly:

 1.  Item cannot be applied and is totally useless.
 2.  Item attributes scale with character's level.  Item may be used
     by low-level characters, but with reduced effectiveness.
 3.  Item randomly un-applies itself depending on level.  Item may be
     used, but with high potential risk.

Did I miss any options?  I'm too lazy to review the whole thread right
now...

Option 1 is certainly the simplest solution, but options 2 and 3 add
interesting gameplay elements...

-Andy