[CF-Devel] Issues I'de like to bring up
crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com
crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com
Mon Apr 28 00:34:26 CDT 2003
On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 00:23, Mark Wedel wrote:
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Justin Zaun wrote:
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One problem is that some skills are harder to advance than others. wizardry,
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combat, eg, the skills that kill thing, are pretty easy to get exp in. Things
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like literacy, sense magic, etc, are a lot harder.
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Very true, loosing 1 level in personality or Wisdom is like loosing 5 in
magic or phyis :-)
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OTOH, I've not heard of any characters being killed by reading a book
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(although the idea of cursed books/scrolls is interesting). but for that
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matter, the identification skills are quite safe, and I can't really envision a
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way to make that dangerous.
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Would make for a better way to loose XP rather that just by death.
though the ideas should be well thoughtout in the grand skeem of XP gain
and loss. Takin in account of all ways to gain XP in or loose XP threout
the entire game.
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> Technically it the other monster that makes the killing blow, but it
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> might be wise to keep track of what monsters did what damage to what %
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> of your HP and base the loss on that information.
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well, that isn't really feasible to do, and get very complicated. You now
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have to track when people did damage - so you know that 'player has healed 20
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points, so that 20 points done back ... is no longer relevant'.
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Would it really, just an array of percentages.
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Arguably, getting killed by something wimpy should cost you more. Eg, an orc
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killed you? You deserve to lose a lot of exp.
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a)
I'm walking down the street, get mugged and shot. After which I stumble
into the street and get killed by a car. I'de want the mugger to get
blamed.
b)
I'm walking down the street get mugged and shot. After which I stumble
into the middle of a robbery and get shot a second time, killing me. I
would want both to get blamed.
I think the game should follow B, not A.
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In any case, I'm really not sold on adjust penalty on death based on how you
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die. I'm certainly willing to come up with a fairer system however.
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Its hard for a non-programmer (of crossfire) to come up with a fair way
because I don't know all the ways XP can be gained or lost.
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> One way to do this would be to remove the % idea as a whole, and deal
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> with it on a per level/group of levels basis. ie if your a level 1
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> player loose 50% of your XP, level 2-3 loose 55%, level 4-5 loose 45%
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> ect. so you loose approperate amounts based on what level you currently
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> are, ading in a random 1 or 2%.
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Yeah, I was thinking about it. The 'problem' is that the exp table is a
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modifiable settings, it just seems having people that may want to modify it also
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adjust loss percentages makes things relatively unfriendly.
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% are always messy, but a fairer (if thats a word) way might be:
say 20% of (current level max XP - previous level max XP) * current
level
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However, I'd personally like more input. Low level exp loss seems fine
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(doesn't take too long to get it back'). The 15-25 range seems tought for
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various reasons. I'd be curious what people who are level 40+ think about the
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current loss. IS it too much, too weak, just right?
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> How hard is it to add mew monsters, data files or source code changes?
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Tyically not very. new monsters are easy. source code is a little trickier
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more in the sense that as a new developer, one needs to submit a few things
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before they would be given write access to CVS (someone else would review the
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submissions and apply them into CVS, if appropriate, on the submitters behalf).
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Is there a HOWTO with an example of how to add a monster, even an
existing on, say a Hill Giant or a Dragon, new graphics an all?
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> I think if a person really wants into a high level area when they are at
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> a low level, they should be able to get in, but at the same time you
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> want to protect them from stepping into a situation they have no chance
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> of winning. One solution - what I mentioned above would work for an
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> outright blocking, but a more lenient way might be something like this:
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> A level 10 player tries to enter a 20+ city, the guard says somthing
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> along the lines "Only the strong and very strong should enter here. If
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> you really want to die I've been know to take bribes of 20 plat". the
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> player drops 20 plat and the gate opens.
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I guess I disagree. I don't see a reason to protect people from their own
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stupidity. If there are signs saying this map is a high level area, and every
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other bit of info poitns to that, yet some new player wanders in and gets
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killed, I have no sympathy for them.
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That said, those various clues should be present. For example, there is a
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sign on the road to brest which says it is a high level area.
First time I went there I didn't go by way of road... missed the sign
all together. the sing would have been better placed right outside the
city wall, after you press 'a' on the city in the world map
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If people ignore
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it, wander in, and get killed, that is there problem. But more to the point,
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the town itself is not dangerous - the shops are safe, the inn is safe, etc.
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Only if they go into a dungeon are they at risk of being killed.
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True, if they ignore it, but what if they never saw it?
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>> Well, one of the map guidelines is to have some clue as to the level of a
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>>dungeon. presuming the entrance space is safe, I'd rather have it there than
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>>signs all over the world.
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> I agree and this is what I ment :-) I guess the guidelines arn't being
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> followed everywhere. Though if a city is for level 20+ players any maps
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> withing that city wouldn't need a sign at all.
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there are lots of maps that predate the creation of the guidelines. And no
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one has really gone and bothered to update everything - its a lot of work, and
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not especially interesting work.
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well I figured a bit out about map editors, I could add the
signs/information needed, but I think it goes beyond just that... how is
a map determend to be "easy" "medium" "difficult"? and are those the
word that should be used?
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> I guess my point was that making a player have to guess the correct
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> answer isn't the best idea in the world. Not everyone has seen the same
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> movies or have the same cultural information. IMHO quests, riddles, etc.
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> would be better if they were "go here do this come back", "talk to John
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> to get information that I need and I'll tell you what you want to know".
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I agree that not everyone has the same cultural references. The problem is it
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gets tricky to know what people do and do not know. The dialogues do make the
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presumption that the players have at least some English comprehension. But what
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level of comprehension do you presume?
speaking English yes, but there should be no presumption that anyone has
any cultural information, unless it come directly out of the game and
not real life.
using Monty Python phrases for a password is bad
using what special gift Sorig gives you after praying is good.
(protection form electricity)
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I also agree the the answers should be available in the game. I disagree that
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we should always point to where the answers are. Take the scorn town gate. You
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can get a password to get out. However, if the guards told you where the
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password was, it would be pretty pointless (and from a role playing perspective,
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not make a lot of sense). However, this is also an example of another good
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point - more than one way to get the info that is needed.
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Agreed. I'm not saying give them step by step how to get the
information, but a pointer in the right direction helps.
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Meaning, if the information is rare, but not unique, sprinkle it in a few
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places. Maybe even unrelated to where the information is needed - I personally
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think this adds to the game - it makes it appear less linear and larger. For
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example, if you foudn some useful piece of info in navar city related to some
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question in santo dominion, you might tuck it away, not knowing what it is for.
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But later in the game, maybe you remember that point. Maybe you don't, and
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find the same piece of info in santo dominion, and you now remember you found
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that a while ago. Either way, it makes it seem that the game is more 'global'.
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This is one big way to make the game more 'global', but there are others
too. give information in one city that is needed in another location
that is not avalible there. Have traviling NPCs that can give out
information. One thing that would be VERY nice is if playes could write
their own books. the books themselves would be one of a kind, and would
be worth pidilly when sold, but the information in them would be very
valuble. Carying that idea further, you could make a library (like an
apartment in that things wont disapeer, different in that its global to
everyone in the game).
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But there are certainly some issues with NPC's. In some maps, you need to
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talk to most everyone to get information. But at the same time, the
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converstation model isn't very good (hard to know what to say to continue the
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conversation), and in some other cases, there are loads of people around with
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nothing to say.
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The bit with loads around with nothing to say has caused me to not
bother with them any more... looking at the map editor, the interface
for them is VERY VERY basic, might want to add a perl, php, python type
scripting behind them.
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I'd not like to remove all the boring poeple - then it really comes to 'this
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person is here - he must have something important to say'. I would like to see
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the npc converstation code improved.
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Agreed. but the boring people should have some built-in AI. hold some
kind of converation that really don't give up any info at all.
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> heh, didn't mean that one person could turn off the safeties without the
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> other knowing. Just meant to have a place to duke it out that others
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> could watch safely and I would gain/he would loose XP.
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Ok. I imagine someone could design that pretty easily - it is basically the
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same as the existing arena, but with no battleground tiles.
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modify the current area with 2 portals from within the betting room, 1
for safe combat, one for non-safe combat.
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