From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 1 01:22:46 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] unipart monsters In-Reply-To: <20030531173342.GA17864@crystal> References: <001201c32725$004c9d00$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <5255.1054399125@www50.gmx.net> <20030531173342.GA17864@crystal> Message-ID: <3ED99BB6.5000201@sonic.net> I'm not a lawyer, but my general take on images would be that we should not use images we know are not in the public domain or under GPL. The fact a game may no longer be published or the author may not be commercially published doesn't really change the copyright issues - someone still holds the copyright. The fact that we don't make money from crossfire may reduce the incentive for people to take legal action. OTOH, at the same point, we give the impression that all the images are under GPL, and if someone else has done the image, that is not a right we really have to do. That said, taking images that not easily recognized descendents is OK - at some level, when you have small images, things will generally look similar (eg, all the humanoid ones, etc). As far as footprint of unipart images: A lot of this depends on the image. Some multipart images (which is more than just monsters of course), have depth as well as width - to me, the stores fall into this case. They aren't 2 high because the image itself is high - they are 2 high because they are deep. So they should have a 2x2 arch. Other things have height. the demon lord is a good example - it is 3x5 I think. However, a lot of that 5 spaces is height. So it should probably have a footprint that is 3x2 (or maybe 3x3 - representing that for many monsters, the footprint should probably be square if the monster seems tall). Dragons are a bit trickier - they seem to have both depth and height, so the footprint for them would be a bit harder. However, I would say that this fact remains - big monsters should always have a width that matches the image width. It is the arch (and a multipart object) which determines from the server perspective where the monster actually is, which means which spaces spells will effect it, which spaces (if you try to move into it), you will attack it, etc. If you take the ent, and make it so that it is now just a 1x1 image, you'd get odd effect when attacking from the side - it'd seem that you are inside the ent (or it is on top of you) - for height, this can make some sense (you are really behind it), but such drawing does not make sense in terms of the side to side stuff. However, you can still use the single image for this - which means it then saves the effort of splitting or re-combining. Schedule to convert to unipart images? Personal thought is no reason not to start - if you make a new image, might as well just have it be a single image. There is no reason to start converting all the ones currently in the arch directory - it'd probably be a good idea to start slow and see what things seem to break (convert one of the shops for example - see what issues people observe). There is some advantages to single part images - mostly from the artist perspective, but it does mean there are few images in the game, which has some cost savings. I personally wouldn't worry about changing the footprint of monsters breaking maps - if we get into that, then you can almost stop and say lets not do any changes, because it may break a map. If it turns out a map gets broken, someone will notify us, and we can fix it then. But my personal thought is that changing the footprint of monsters to be _smaller_ is not likely to break any maps. It may make some much tougher, as monsters can now go places they couldn't before, but I can't really see that breaking anything - arguably, maps that are defined such that big monsters are trapped and can't go to certain places are already broken if the players can go to those places and kill the monsters. As for window compilation - yes, the server has previously been compiled on windows - I'm not sure last time that was tried. I'm also not sure if all the necessary build bits for anyone but P. Stolarc to compile the gtk client is avaialable (may be on the website - haven't checked) - that should certainly be put into CVS. It'd be nice to have someone volunteer to be the windows release engineer, eg, regularly test compile of the server/client on windows, and also make pre-compiled releases of a windows gtk client. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 1 01:24:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply container bug / GTK client question In-Reply-To: <3ED5AC84.9090308@laposte.net> References: <3ED4C345.7040907@laposte.net> <3ED5A5C1.20508@sonic.net> <3ED5AC84.9090308@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3ED99C32.8070106@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hi > >> The way to currently close open containers is to hit the 'close' >> button which is between the inventory and look window. >> >> It has been discussed in the past what the right behaviour is - >> should click on the container actually close it, or should the cloes >> button be used. >> > I checked the mailing lists before posting, but couldn't find anything > on that subject... > In any case, it isn't a matter of 'close button'. If for instance i > manually enter, via the command line, 'apply sack', the behaviour is: > unapplied => applied => opened => applied. > The only way, via the keyboard, to unapply the sack is to drop it & pick > it up... > IMO, the close button should indeed be used to close the container. But > using the command line should also enable to unapply an item... (i'm > lazy & don't want to use the mouse to close, and besides even with the > mouse you can't unapply an item...) Would some command like 'close ' be sufficient? Or maybe some specific flag to apply (apply -c for close or something)? Now that I know how you are using the attributes, I am in a better position to say what might be ways to make a fix that meets your needs. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 1 02:48:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply container bug / GTK client question In-Reply-To: <3ED99C32.8070106@sonic.net> References: <3ED4C345.7040907@laposte.net> <3ED5A5C1.20508@sonic.net> <3ED5AC84.9090308@laposte.net> <3ED99C32.8070106@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3ED9AFCF.70100@laposte.net> Hi (again) > Would some command like 'close ' be > sufficient? Or maybe some specific flag to apply (apply -c for close > or something)? Now that I know how you are using the attributes, I am > in a better position to say what might be ways to make a fix that > meets your needs. Actually, what bothers (?) me is that the logic is different in the server & the (GTK) client. The server correctly closes and unapplies the container, but the GTK CLIENT reapplies it straight away. IMHO this is more a matter of client mishandling / mistake than a missing command. After all if you click the 'close' button, the container is closed and unapplied, which is the behaviour i for one would expect to have by simply using 'apply '. Wonder if i'm clear enough lol. Nicolas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 1 10:55:53 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply container bug / GTK client question In-Reply-To: <3ED9AFCF.70100@laposte.net> Message-ID: On 01-Jun-03 Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Actually, what bothers (?) me is that the logic is different in the > server & the (GTK) client. I agree here. It's not the lack of a close command, because there are ways to close it. It's the fact that you would expect to cycle through open/close apply/unapply, and yet, it does not. This drives me up the wall when playing, as I have to stop, unapply the bag manually, and then do whatever. The cycle should be extended to include unapplied, as otherwise you have to go through contortions that are not intuitive to get the bag to stop picking things up. Also, while on the subject of bags.. an "empty" command would be nice. It would also be neat if you could lock items inside your bag. I would expect the behavior of the lock to be different, in that it would only affect things like the empty command. I spend far too much time at my apartment manually sorting crap out of the bags, one click at a time. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 2 03:17:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply container bug / GTK client question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EDB080D.20008@laposte.net> Hi >The cycle should be extended to include unapplied, as otherwise you have to go >through contortions that are not intuitive to get the bag to stop picking >things up. > Actually, the server code does include unapplied. It's just that the GTK client skips the 'unapplied' part, forcing the container applied again when closing and unapplying it. You can unapply the container by clicking (with the mouse) the 'close' button when it's opened, btw, that works fine (thus this proves the server does handle unapply :-) Of course since i almost don't use the mouse when playing, it's a pain, i just drop the container then pick it again ^_^ >Also, while on the subject of bags.. an "empty" command would be nice. > Hum, open -> 'get all ? That does the trick (except that puts items in inventory, of course, not on the ground). Just my 2 cents of euro Nicolas Weeger _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 2 04:08:03 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply bug Message-ID: <3EDB13F3.5080500@laposte.net> Hi everyone. There is a bug (or weird thing) with the handling of the 'apply' argument. Or maybe that's the standard behaviour, who knows ^_^;;; Let's say i issue 'apply hag'. If i have haggise(s) in inventory, no trouble, it'll eat'em correctly. But if i don't have any, well, it'll open a container, wear/unwear bracers, to sum up some random thing depending on the stacked items in inventory. Also if i 'apply bread' and have both 'bread' and 'waybread' in inventory, i except it to apply the 'bread', since it matches more precisely than 'waybread'. But the server will pick one of'em depending on the stack order, too.... Of course it isn't that bad, just a matter of checking the inventory before issuing a command... but still, sometimes i find that annoying... (for your information i almost only play with keyboard, mouse is only to [un]lock items). And just in case here's my configuration: CF GTK client under Windows 2000, and only 300mhz, sometimes not enough when there are zillion 'your lightning zaps ' lines scrolling like crazy... Nicolas Weeger _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 2 06:04:18 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply container bug / GTK client question In-Reply-To: <3EDB080D.20008@laposte.net> References: <3EDB080D.20008@laposte.net> Message-ID: > >Also, while on the subject of bags.. an "empty" command would be nice. > > > Hum, open -> 'get all ? That does the trick (except that puts items in > inventory, of course, not on the ground). > Or you can just right click a drop command on the container when it is active, and not locked, and it will dump out its contents on the ground. And yes i to would like the gtk client to use the good old apply cycle of the old client. // Magnus K _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 2 06:08:18 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] small cast bug In-Reply-To: <3EDB13F3.5080500@laposte.net> References: <3EDB13F3.5080500@laposte.net> Message-ID: It seems that 'cast lists the spell costs of your spells according to your level in the skill youcurrently have active instead of your level in wizardry/praying. This can be a bit missleading some times. // Magnus Kronhamn email: mak@solace.mh.se _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 2 22:20:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply container bug / GTK client question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030603032030.10584.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tim Rightnour wrote: > It would also be neat if you could lock items inside your bag. I would > expect the behavior of the lock to be different, in that it would only > affect things like the empty command. I spend far too much time at my > apartment manually sorting crap out of the bags, one click at a time. How about drag from one bag to another for the same reason? http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 2 23:20:10 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply container bug / GTK client question In-Reply-To: <20030603032030.10584.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030603032030.10584.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EDC21FA.5040708@sympatico.ca> > > >David Seikel wrote: >How about drag from one bag to another for the same reason? > > > Draging items around the inventory would be the best use of the mouse really. It is such natural and efficient behaviour (more than any other mousely behaviour). This is one of my most missed features from the DXclient that isn't in the GCF client. Dragging items from inventory to 'container' window or to 'ground below' window (or drag onto map to drop it below your character) and back would be really nice. Not talking dragging stuff off the map, just between containers (in theis case the map being one big drop container). YOu haven't lived until you've reorganized your stuff with the mouse... ok, maybe it's not that special, but it is very nice. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 4 07:48:33 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Problems with GTK client for windows... Message-ID: <20030604124833.C6560ABBD@sitemail.everyone.net> Hello everybody! I've been told about some problems with the GTKclient for windows (installed from binary, not compiled) running on windows2000. A friend of me is using this client and told me 2 problems she found: - She can drop items just once. When she goes to a shop and sells some items, then go to adventure and return with more items to sell, she can't drop them anymore, neither into nor out of the shop. She must restart the client to do so. - When she shut down the client (typing 0 in the servers list) the client doesn't close at all and it makes windows 2000 crash, so she must restart windows. I suspect this is a problem from windows, but maybe it could be another thing. I would appreciate any help about this problems. By the way, the crossfire server she is playing into is 1.5.0 running in a Linux machine (on my computer). Thanks, Renzo Crispieri Th. _____________________________________________________________ TheFreeSite.com: Home of the Web's best freebies. http://www.thefreesite.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 4 08:16:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Problems with GTK client for windows... In-Reply-To: <20030604124833.C6560ABBD@sitemail.everyone.net> References: <20030604124833.C6560ABBD@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: <3EDDF12E.9050001@laposte.net> Hello >- She can drop items just once. When she goes to a shop and sells some items, then go to adventure and return with more items to sell, she can't drop them anymore, neither into nor out of the shop. She must restart the client to do so. > Tell her to maybe check the 'item count' thingy on top of inventory list? That's the number of items you want to drop. If you put it to some number, sometimes you can't drop things, indeed.... As for the freezing problem, i have no idea here... been using the (compiled) CF client on my Windows 2000 for a few months, never froze at all when exiting.... (using it on 2 computers, too, and working fine) >Thanks, >Renzo Crispieri Th. > > Hope this helps Nicolas Weeger _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 4 09:42:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Problems with GTK client for windows... In-Reply-To: <3EDDF12E.9050001@laposte.net> References: <20030604124833.C6560ABBD@sitemail.everyone.net> <3EDDF12E.9050001@laposte.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > >- She can drop items just once. When she goes to a shop and sells some items, then go to adventure and return with more items to sell, she can't drop them anymore, neither into nor out of the shop. She must restart the client to do so. > > > > Tell her to maybe check the 'item count' thingy on top of inventory > list? That's the number of items you want to drop. If you put it to some > number, sometimes you can't drop things, indeed.... Yes make sure the item count is set to 0 to be able to handle whole stacks of items. Ito find that really anoying in th gtk client that it keeps that number where the cfclient resets it for you after youve used it. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 6 13:19:29 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Problems with GTK client for windows... Message-ID: <20030606181929.479D046A2@sitemail.everyone.net> Hello everybody! Thanks for your help. The dropping problem was solved the way you told me. On the other hand, about the freezing problem, my friend found a way to close the client without crashing w2000: Disconnect from the menu bar, and close it with the close window button on the top right corner, and then just wait for it to close (which can be slow, but don't crash her PC). Thanks for your help. Renzo. _____________________________________________________________ TheFreeSite.com: Home of the Web's best freebies. http://www.thefreesite.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 7 05:19:41 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Crossfire document website Message-ID: <002a01c32cde$501940e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> The crossfire document website is now working well enough to send out notice of it here. It can be found at http://crossfire.freezope.org. This site is primarily for developers and people wishing to contribute or collaborate on written content for the game (play guides, programmin guides, item and monster descriptions, historical information, code explanations). Right now there is a Wiki to serve as a shared encyclopedia and document colloboration area, a document area where more polished documents can be posted, easily found and commented upon. There will be no mailing lists or playing aids, or player interaction areas since there are already other good platforms for these activities. The common document format for this site is structured text (plain text used in a structured way - read about it on the wiki) and it should be possible to either use these documents directly in the crossfire CVS package or easily convert them to a suitable format that can be included into the packages. Hopefully this will make it easier to keep these things updated and relevant. There are programs out there that convert structured text to XML, HTML, PDF and many more so I think it is a good carrying format for these purposes (not to mention it is wiki's native format and I wanted to use a wiki). So go check it out, use it. It's not fun but maybe it is better way to manage the papertrail. If you have any suggestions or features you'd like to see, you can use the SuggestionBox on the wiki (if no one has made it yet you can create it by typing 'SuggestionBox' in the wiki...) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20030607/782dc557/attachment.htm From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 8 12:06:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Scroll writing failure bug Message-ID: <3EE36D0B.7070204@noos.fr> Hello. I've been playing with writing scrolls lately, and noticed what is prolly a bug: when failing a spell writing, you sometimes get confused, and lose part of the sp/gr of the spell you wanted to cast. But you lose experience in MAGIC whether it was a priest or magic spell.... Just my 2 cents (of euro) Nicolas W _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 9 01:42:39 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Scroll writing failure bug In-Reply-To: <3EE36D0B.7070204@noos.fr> Message-ID: On 08-Jun-03 Nicolas Weeger wrote: > But you lose > experience in MAGIC whether it was a priest or magic spell You lose exp for tyring to do something and failing? That seems kinda broken. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 9 01:52:09 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Spell directory layout. Message-ID: <3EE42E99.9030006@sonic.net> I'm working on the 'spell object' idea now. I've more or less finished up the skill stuff, but didn't want to have to update a bunch of the old spell code to use it, so decided to just tackle the spell object idea so that I only have to write that code once. I decided to sketch out a layout for the arch directory for all this spell stuff - all the arch's are going to need to get updated anyways, so might as well update the layout of the directories to make finding things easier. This is excerpted from the spells doc I'm updating as I work on this. 6. Arch Directory Layout This section describes the basic layout of the archetypes in the arch directory. This explanation is here to try and prevent confusion (where should this arch go), where would I find an arch, etc. I thought about this a bit - would it be better to organize spells by attacktype (eg, all fire spells together, all cold spells, etc), or by type of spell (bolt spells, bullet spells, cone spells, etc). I think both methods have valid reasons for and against them. I decided to do it by spell type because I think it will make it easier to compare spells. For example, if one bolt spell does 20 damage, and another does 30 damage, even if by another attacktype, pretty easy to see that the later is more potent. This also organizes the spells more by their subtype, which is the more standard way the arch's have been done in the past. It makes for designing new spells much easier (you'd just copy a starter arch from the same directory, and not need to hunt for another one - imagine something like acid bolt). That said, the organization (all relative to the arch top level directory) magic: This directory goes away. There are many things that are magical that are not spells, so having a directory named magic is IMO not the best of name: spell: top level directory. This directory is for the spell archetypes, and is not meant to contain non related spell code. thus, the pentagram (actually a teleporter), and the weapon improver scrolls (not really in any way related to spells) would get relocated. Bolt: Contains the bolt spells Bullet: Bullet spells. Common: Contains objects that are related to spells in many areas, eg, the burnout is used by many types of spells, and things like a flaming square or icy square are used for cone, bolt, and exploding ball spells - those would be located here. Cone: Contains cone spells Healing: healing spells Potions: Contain the various potions. SeekingBall: spells like ball lightning Spellbook: spellbook/prayerbook objects. Wand: Contain the wand, staff, rod archetypes. There are almost certainly sub types I'm missing that I'll have to fill in. The idea here is to try to sketch something out that gives me a working layout to fill things in. Within each of the spell subtype directories, the entries for the spell information would be needed. And example below: spell_lightning_bolt.arc: This is the spell object that goes in the player/ monster inventory that says they know the lightning bolt spell. As per other documentation, this also contains things like the skill needed to use this spell, spell point cost, level cost, etc. lightning_bolt.arc: this is the other_arch of the spell_lightning_bolt.arc. Few values in this are actually used - most of the values come from the parent arc. However, this (lightning_bolt.arc) contains the information like what the animation for the spell look like. lightning_bolt.base.111.png (and so on) are the images used by the lightning_bolt.arc arch. In the case of subtype directories with lots of entries, it is likely that the directories may then get broken up by things like attacktype of the spells. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 9 01:50:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Scroll writing failure bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE42E29.2010608@laposte.net> > > >You lose exp for tyring to do something and failing? That seems kinda broken. > This i don't mind, that's the price for messing with spells :-) Besides it doesn't happen all the time, only when you fail badly the writing. Can backfire & such, too The point is that you obviously should lost xp in wisdom for failure to write a priest spell.... > >--- >Tim Rightnour >NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ >NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi > >_______________________________________________ >crossfire-devel mailing list >crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 9 02:02:44 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Scroll writing failure bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE43114.8090702@sonic.net> Tim Rightnour wrote: > On 08-Jun-03 Nicolas Weeger wrote: > >> But you lose >>experience in MAGIC whether it was a priest or magic spell > > > You lose exp for tyring to do something and failing? That seems kinda broken. Yeah, that does. However, I think the original complaint was that he was losing exp in the wrong skill. If anything, you should lose exp in inscription, and not the praying/wizardry skill. But that is probably more a problem due to the way that the code activated skills. I will say this should be fixed in the new skill code I have written. However, since this was started, it does bring up an interesting question - currently, you can only scribe spells that would normally be found on scrolls. Given the new skill code, that check is harder, and IMO, perhaps more useless. IMO, one of the cool things would be for players to make scrolls for spells that are normally not available. Does anyone see any issue in being able to make scrolls for spells not normally found on scrolls (note, you still need to have been able to learn this spell somehow or another to make a scroll of it). If its a scroll that doesn't translate well (eg, blows up in your face, whatever), to me, that is a risk we should let the players take if they make scrolls. Something like a scroll of rune of marking would be really useless, but if someone wants to make them.... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 9 02:14:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Scroll writing failure bug In-Reply-To: <3EE43114.8090702@sonic.net> References: <3EE43114.8090702@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3EE433EF.1090606@laposte.net> > Yeah, that does. > > However, I think the original complaint was that he was losing exp > in the wrong skill. Correct. I don't mind losing exp for scroll failure (and getting confused / losing charisma), but losing xp in the wrong skill is weird :-) Besides the loss isn't that great, around 200 points only, doesn't matter (i wrote like 50 scrolls & lost what? 20k xp? not a big deal for a >40 char) > If anything, you should lose exp in inscription, and not the > praying/wizardry skill. But that is probably more a problem due to > the way that the code activated skills. I think inscription is currently attached to mental... > Does anyone see any issue in being able to make scrolls for spells not > normally found on scrolls (note, you still need to have been able to > learn this spell somehow or another to make a scroll of it). If its a > scroll that doesn't translate well (eg, blows up in your face, > whatever), to me, that is a risk we should let the players take if > they make scrolls. Something like a scroll of rune of marking would > be really useless, but if someone wants to make them.... I think that would slightly change the balance of the game... for instance, right now you can't write scrolls of healing, meaning you have to either find potions or use the prayer.... and regenerate grace. If we could write those spells, we'd make 100 scrolls, thus it'd be easier to heal. Maybe not an issue if you have a lot of healing potions in any case, but still... Nicolas Weeger _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 9 02:26:23 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Speed bug Message-ID: <3EE4369F.6020703@laposte.net> Hi (again). There seems to be a bug with the max speed computation sometimes. Here's what i do (exact commands types in chat window): * apply Lug (opens Luggage) * get all * apply pouch (opens pouch) * get all * apply pouch After that, my speed was >7!!! (when i'm at 1,6 usually, 2 at most with ring of Thieves). Saw that bug too another time, doing the same kind of things, iirc... Nicolas Weeger _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 9 09:39:52 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Server crash in the arena Message-ID: <20030609113952.098c9a9e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Hi! Two days ago something weird happened in the arena. 1st) Two people were fighting in the arena and I was waiting in the hall for them to finish with another character (a fireborn) standing next to me. I was trying to get ready for my fight so i invoked sanctuary then i saw the fireborn die (i cant remember if i had a message like "you killed *** with sanctuary") his finger fallen to the ground like if it was a duel and the server crashed away. 2nd) When we re logged in (again fighting in the arena) the nursery turned into a 1x1 black square so every fallen foe went in there and couldnt get out except for a portal or word of recall. I'm not sure about the first point that i think was the cause of the crash (but is sanctuary supposed to kill?) We also realized that the problem with bonecrushers names was back (maybe because of the crash?) Greetings. Katia & Meryan (in metalforge server). -- +-----------------------------+ | Karla M? Stenger S?bat | | Pando . Canelones . Uruguay | | kstenger@montevideo.com.uy | +-----------------------------+ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 9 09:47:06 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Server crash in the arena In-Reply-To: <20030609113952.098c9a9e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> References: <20030609113952.098c9a9e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Message-ID: <20030609144706.GB26959@crystal> On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 11:39:52AM -0300, Karla Stenger wrote: [snip] > 2nd) When we re logged in (again fighting in the arena) the nursery > turned into a 1x1 black square so every fallen foe went in there and > couldnt get out except for a portal or word of recall. > > I'm not sure about the first point that i think was the cause of the > crash (but is sanctuary supposed to kill?) Sanctuary is basically counterspell, and I know some monsters get hurt by counterspell (e.g. pixies). No idea what effect it has on players, though. > We also realized that the problem with bonecrushers names was back (maybe > because of the crash?) [snip] To which I might add, not long after the problem with bonecrushers, other arches started to become corrupted (hats became "/pupland/terminal", etc.), the dragon transport to pupland became closed (probably because the slaying field got corrupted). The problems started to get worse, until I forced a server crash so that it would reset itself. It looks like a dangling pointer bug, to me. T -- If lightning were to ever strike an orchestra, it'd always hit the conductor. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 10 01:49:49 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Spell directory layout. References: <3EE42E99.9030006@sonic.net> Message-ID: <001601c32f1c$7e7b37a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> sounds good to me. OASRT (On A Superficially Related Topic)... I would like to reorganize some of the contents of the 'human' folder under monster. I would like to make a folder called monster/NPC, move all the more commonly NPC types under and have subfolders like Dwarf, Elf, Human, Town, Guard, Arabic and what ever. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 9 16:47:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Crossfire Messageboard Message-ID: I'm a little late in announcing this.. Crossfire has an online forum using phpBB (http://www.phpbb.com/) The forum is currently located at: http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/index.php The site serves as it's own discussion area with any topics being posted to the mailing lists as/when necessary. Or, for people who are afraid of mailing lists. ;) - Rick -- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 10 22:39:01 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Scroll writing failure bug In-Reply-To: <3EE433EF.1090606@laposte.net> References: <3EE43114.8090702@sonic.net> <3EE433EF.1090606@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3EE6A455.4070904@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> Yeah, that does. >> >> However, I think the original complaint was that he was losing exp >> in the wrong skill. > > > > Correct. I don't mind losing exp for scroll failure (and getting > confused / losing charisma), but losing xp in the wrong skill is weird :-) > Besides the loss isn't that great, around 200 points only, doesn't > matter (i wrote like 50 scrolls & lost what? 20k xp? not a big deal for > a >40 char) Yeah, the loss probably isn't big, but it is probably more a stylistic thing. Should you lose exp in any of the other skills if you don't use them properly? Probably not. Something like inscription should probably be punished monetarily in addition to losing the grace/mana. Monetarily in the sense that the scroll you are writing on could perhaps be destroyed also. > > I think inscription is currently attached to mental... In the new skill system, that isn't the case - skills aren't attacked to categories anymore. > >> Does anyone see any issue in being able to make scrolls for spells not >> normally found on scrolls (note, you still need to have been able to >> learn this spell somehow or another to make a scroll of it). If its a >> scroll that doesn't translate well (eg, blows up in your face, >> whatever), to me, that is a risk we should let the players take if >> they make scrolls. Something like a scroll of rune of marking would >> be really useless, but if someone wants to make them.... > > > I think that would slightly change the balance of the game... for > instance, right now you can't write scrolls of healing, meaning you have > to either find potions or use the prayer.... and regenerate grace. > If we could write those spells, we'd make 100 scrolls, thus it'd be > easier to heal. Maybe not an issue if you have a lot of healing potions > in any case, but still... Good point - I wasn't actually thinking of that case. The issue here may be more that making scrolls is very cheap (just the cost of a scroll to overwrite) - I believe basically unlimited healing potions are available (or that is sort of the intent), if you have the money. It wouldn't be hard to make it such that it was possible to only write scrolls that would show up normally. However, one thing with the new spell system is that it will be easy to create variations of spells without any code changes (eg, I could make a 'mega fireball' spell available in some maps just by adjusting to values in the spell object. If that spell is only found on that map, it would never show up on scrolls, even though the designer of the spell may want to have that happen. The other way to fix this would be to have something like a 'flag_is_inscribable' which says one can make scrolls of this. IMO, this isn't so much an issue with mage spells, as writing a spell only really allows you to store up ability for a later point. And to some extent, that same ability exists in the form of spell crystals (what's really the difference in having 10 scrolls you made in town, or having enough points in your spell crystal for those 10 spells? None really). However, there is nothing equivalant to this for grace, so perhaps one could argue this is more an issue for those - you could now make all those heal scrolls. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 10 22:42:01 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Spell directory layout. In-Reply-To: <001601c32f1c$7e7b37a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <3EE42E99.9030006@sonic.net> <001601c32f1c$7e7b37a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <3EE6A509.8000406@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: > sounds good to me. > > OASRT (On A Superficially Related Topic)... > > I would like to reorganize some of the contents of the 'human' folder under > monster. I would like to make a folder called monster/NPC, move all the > more commonly NPC types under and have subfolders like Dwarf, Elf, Human, > Town, Guard, Arabic and what ever. I'd probably prefer something other than NPC. To me, NPC suggests friendly creatures that help out the players - I'm not sure that is really the case - taking a very quick look at the human folder, there are certain enemies there. That said, I'm sure some re-orginization in that directory probably is in order. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 10 23:42:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Spell directory layout. In-Reply-To: <3EE6A509.8000406@sonic.net> References: <3EE42E99.9030006@sonic.net> <001601c32f1c$7e7b37a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <3EE6A509.8000406@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3EE6B329.5030206@sympatico.ca> Mark Wedel wrote: > I'd probably prefer something other than NPC. To me, NPC suggests > friendly creatures that help out the players - I'm not sure that is > really the case - taking a very quick look at the human folder, there > are certain enemies there. > > That said, I'm sure some re-orginization in that directory probably > is in order. > Well I was actually going to move only the more NPCish types - humanoids that are not overtly hostile. I would move for example the sailor or the elves but not the pirate or the madman or the necromancer... I was suggesting this since I am also going to shuck out some more NPC types like halflings, some more dwarves, some dragons... Of course any monster could be an NPC and any NPC could be a monster but It would be nice to have the more NPC types together. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 10 23:00:10 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Server crash in the arena In-Reply-To: <20030609144706.GB26959@crystal> References: <20030609113952.098c9a9e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <20030609144706.GB26959@crystal> Message-ID: <3EE6A94A.1020202@sonic.net> H. S. Teoh wrote: > To which I might add, not long after the problem with bonecrushers, other > arches started to become corrupted (hats became "/pupland/terminal", > etc.), the dragon transport to pupland became closed (probably because the > slaying field got corrupted). The problems started to get worse, until I > forced a server crash so that it would reset itself. It looks like a > dangling pointer bug, to me. I thought I noticed an extraneous free_string when I was working on the skill code, but didn't bother to fix it for whatever reason. I looked through a diff of the code as I have it now, and didn't find anything. OTOH, diff of the server directory make a 17,000 line diff file. I can't remember the details now. It was one of these two things: 1) A free_string was being done on something in which decrease_ob was called later on. At one point, this object was non mergable, so that that decrease_ob effectively destroyed the object - since the object is now mergable, multipe free_strings could be called. 2) a free_string was called, but the pointer (op->name, op->slaying, etc) was set to anything after that. Thus, if the function was called again, op->name (or whatever it was) would still seem to point to something, so free_string was called again. the end result in either case was that at some point, all the references to the string would be freed, so the shared string library would recycle that address. And this really matches the description given in the bug. The real fix for this is for FREE_AND_CLEAR_STR to be used instead of free_string in most all cases - this resets the pointer to NULL, so you'd either notice the problem quickly (item xyz has no name anymore), or it'd fix that double free problem. However, such a change should really wait until I check in all the code I've modified, which should hopefully be in the next week or two. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 12 14:24:15 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Client memory leak Message-ID: <3EE8D35F.7020809@gmx.at> Hi! The GTK Unix Client 1.5.0 (and probably others) have a memory leak. This is how you can hopefully and simply reproduce it: 35 key Left R drop 1 large gold nugget;invoke alchemy;get nugget 36 key Left A drop 10 small gold;invoke alchemy;get nugget 38 key Down A get 1 gold nugget;use_skill alchemy Create some gold nuggets by casting alchemy to 2000 platinum coins. Pick them up and turn them to small nuggets by repeating key binding nr. 35. Put the unidentified small nuggets in a sack, bag, etc. With the open bag call #38 repeatedly. This takes 1 unidentified nugget which stays apart from the identified ones and keep staying apart even after idendifying. The many nuggets in the inventory eat up memory. If you 'drop all' the single nuggets get merged but memory won't be freed. For completeness ... With the bag closed #36 recycles the nuggets so they can be identified again in order to gain mental level. Below is a perl script that warns you when memory gets low. Bernhard bernhard@bb:~$ cat $(which lmwarn) #!/usr/bin/perl -w # This program requires the beep utility to be installed! $hf=5000; $lf=500; sub commify { local $_ = shift; 1 while s/^([-+]?\d+)(\d{3})/$1,$2/; return $_; } sub freemem { open MEMINFO,'/proc/meminfo'; undef $/; $_=; /Mem: +\d+ +\d+ +(\d+) +\d+ +(\d+) +(\d+)/; # my $free=$1+$2+$3; my $free=$1; /Swap: +\d+ +\d+ +(\d+)/; return $free+$1; } if (`beep -v`!~/beep/) { print "\almwarn requires the program beep! Please install it!\n"; $exit=1; } if ($#ARGV==-1) { open MEMINFO,'/proc/meminfo'; undef $/; $_=; /Mem: +(\d+)/; $total=$1; /Swap: +(\d+)/; $total+=$1; print "No limit specified. Using 1/4 total memory: " .int($total/1024/1024)."/4=" .int($total/1024/1024/4)." MB.\n"; $limit=int $total/4; } elsif ($ARGV[0]=~/^\d+$/) { $limit=$ARGV[0]*1024*1024; } else { print "Beeps when swap memory gets low.\n"; print "usage: lmwarn []\n"; print "The frequency of the beeps relate to the amount of free memory:\n"; print "$hf Hz for the warning limit.\n"; print "$lf Hz for out of memory.\n"; print "There will be 3 beeps:\n"; print "The 1st indicates the amount of free memroy last time.\n"; print "The 2nd indicates the current amount of free memory.\n"; print "The 3rd is the out of memory frequency for reference.\n"; print "Current free memory is ".commify(freemem())." (". int (freemem()/1024/1024) ." MB).\n"; $exit=1; } $exit and exit; $lastfree=0; $df=$hf-$lf; $lastf=$hf; while (1) { $free=freemem(); # ($sec,$min,$hour,$mday,$mon,$year,$wday,$yday) = gmtime(time); ($sec,$min,$hour,undef) = gmtime(time); if (abs($free-$lastfree)>$limit/50) { $lastfree=$free; if ($free<($limit)) { printf "%02d:%02d:%02d free memory: ".commify($free)." is below limit: ".commify($limit)."\n",$hour,$min,$sec; } else { printf "%02d:%02d:%02d free memory: ".commify($free)."\n",$hour,$min,$sec; $skip=0; } } if ($free<($limit) && !$skip--) { $f=int($lf+$free*$df/$limit); $cmd="beep -l 50 -f $lastf; beep -l 50 -f $f; beep -l 50 -f $lf"; # print "$cmd\n"; `$cmd`; $lastf=$f; $skip=5; } sleep 1; } -- Low end Serverhousing ab 25 e inkl. 1x 11 e/GB, etc.: http://bksys.at _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 12 14:56:02 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Client memory leak In-Reply-To: <3EE8D35F.7020809@gmx.at> References: <3EE8D35F.7020809@gmx.at> Message-ID: <3EE8DAD2.5070800@gmx.at> Bernhard Kuemel wrote: > For completeness ... With the bag closed #36 recycles the nuggets so > they can be identified again in order to gain mental level. The bag must be activated and closed. -- Low end Serverhousing ab 25 e inkl. 1x 11 e/GB, etc.: http://bksys.at _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 12 22:30:45 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Scroll writing failure bug In-Reply-To: <3EE6A455.4070904@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20030613033045.81266.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Wedel wrote: > However, there is nothing equivalant to this for grace, so perhaps one > could argue this is more an issue for those - you could now make all those > heal scrolls. Simple solution, you can only inscribe a priest spell if your god allows it. Gods can be quite fickle, they have an inscribable flag and know how to use it B-). http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 13 00:59:53 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] server crash Message-ID: <3EE96859.5040600@sympatico.ca> as DM in Scorn I fired an arrow at dragon NPC (an unagressive npc but I wanted to see how they moved) --- server crashed. It only happens in Scorn (city map), not in say the tavern... Repeatable - ran GDB here is the info: Segmentation Fault. [Switching to thread 1024 (LWP 7682)] npc_call_help (op=0x88805ac) at monster.c1292 1292 if(Query_Flag(npc, Flag_Alive)&&QUERY_FLAG(npc, FLAG_UNAGGRESSIVE)) here's an example arch (food 999?): Object red_dragon1 name red dragon race dragon randomitems dragon_player_items face pl_dragon_r.151 anim facings 2 pl_dragon_r.151 pl_dragon_r.152 pl_dragon_r.171 pl_dragon_r.172 mina monster 1 unaggressive 1 level 1 ac 5 wc 21 dam 10 alive 1 weight 70000 food 999 speed -0.3 attacktype 1 editable 1 color_fg red can_use_shield 0 can_use_armour 0 can_use_weapon 0 body_range 1 body_arm 0 body_neck 1 body_skill 1 body_finger 2 body_shoulder 1 body_wrist 2 body_waist 1 end _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 13 01:32:51 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] npc folder in CVS Message-ID: <3EE97013.40208@sympatico.ca> Here is my proposed change to add monster/NPC directory to arches. (excuse the file list, but it was faster than writing it out) All these are to be moved from the monster/human folder except the new ones of course (these are like shop keeper and caravan owner type dragons you see here) stuff. This would consolodate the 'people' arches including non human people. I plan on adding a few more variations of the main races here and other interesting usually non-agressive monsters. What say ye: yea or nay? arch/monster/NPC: NPC/Arabic: a_guard_h.arc a_guard_h.base.111.png a_guard_l.arc a_guard_l.base.111.png a_guard_m.arc a_guard_m.base.111.png a_priest.arc a_priest.base.111.png a_townsman2.arc a_townsman2.base.111.png a_townsman2.clsc.111.png a_townsman3.arc a_townsman3.base.111.png a_townsman3.clsc.111.png a_townsman.arc a_townsman.base.111.png a_townsman.clsc.111.png beggar.arc beggar.base.111.png big_slave.arc big_slave.base.111.png dancing_girl.arc dancing_girl.base.111.png dancing_girl.base.112.png dancing_girl.base.113.png dancing_girl.clsc.111.png dancing_girl.clsc.112.png dancing_girl.clsc.113.png holy_priest.arc holy_priest.base.111.png holy_priest.base.211.png holy_priest.base.311.png holy_priest.clsc.111.png merchant.arc merchant.base.111.png merchant.base.131.png merchant.base.171.png merchant.clsc.111.png merchant.clsc.131.png merchant.clsc.171.png slave.arc slave.base.111.png slave.clsc.111.png veiled_woman2.arc veiled_woman2.base.111.png veiled_woman2.clsc.111.png veiled_woman3.arc veiled_woman3.base.111.png veiled_woman3.clsc.111.png veiled_woman.arc veiled_woman.base.111.png veiled_woman.clsc.111.png NPC/Dragon: black_dragon1.arc blue_dragon1.arc blue_dragon2.arc blue_dragon2.base.151.png blue_dragon2.base.152.png blue_dragon2.base.171.png blue_dragon2.base.172.png green_dragon1.arc green_dragon2.arc green_dragon2.base.151.png green_dragon2.base.152.png green_dragon2.base.171.png green_dragon2.base.172.png red_dragon1.arc NPC/Dwarf: dwarf.arc dwarf.base.111.png dwarf.base.112.png dwarf.clsc.111.png dwarf.clsc.112.png dwarf_pr.arc dwarf_pr.base.111.png dwarf_pr.base.112.png dwarf_pr.base.113.png dwarf_pr.clsc.111.png dwarf_pr.clsc.112.png dwarf_pr.clsc.113.png dwarf_wiz.arc dwarf_wiz.base.111.png dwarf_wiz.base.112.png dwarf_wiz.base.113.png dwarf_wiz.clsc.111.png dwarf_wiz.clsc.112.png dwarf_wiz.clsc.113.png greater_dwarven_guard.arc greater_dwarven_guard.base.111.png greater_dwarven_guard.base.112.png greater_dwarven_guard.clsc.111.png greater_dwarven_guard.clsc.112.png lesser_dwarven_guard.arc lesser_dwarven_guard.base.111.png lesser_dwarven_guard.base.112.png lesser_dwarven_guard.clsc.111.png lesser_dwarven_guard.clsc.112.png NPC/Elf: elf_1.arc elf_1.base.111.png elf_1.base.112.png elf_1.base.113.png elf_1.clsc.111.png elf_1.clsc.112.png elf_1.clsc.113.png elf_guard.arc elf_guard.base.111.png elf_guard.base.112.png elf_guard.base.113.png elf_guard.clsc.111.png elf_guard.clsc.112.png elf_guard.clsc.113.png elf_lad.base.111.png elf_lad.base.112.png elf_lass.arc elf_lass.base.111.png elf_lass.base.112.png elf_lass.clsc.111.png elf_lass.clsc.112.png elf_man.arc NPC/Gnome: gnome.arc gnome.base.111.png gnome.base.112.png gnome.clsc.111.png gnome.clsc.112.png NPC/Guard: guard_hard.arc guard_hard.base.111.png guard_hard.clsc.111.png guard_ligh.arc guard_ligh.base.111.png guard_ligh.clsc.111.png guard_med.arc guard_med.base.111.png guard_med.clsc.111.png knight.arc knight.base.111.png knight.base.112.png knight.base.113.png knight.base.114.png knight.base.115.png knight.clsc.111.png knight.clsc.112.png knight.clsc.113.png knight.clsc.114.png knight.clsc.115.png NPC/Halfling: halfling_man.base.131.png halfling_man.base.132.png halfling_man.base.151.png halfling_man.base.152.png halfling_man.base.171.png halfling_man.base.172.png NPC/Human: charwoman.arc charwoman.base.131.png charwoman.base.132.png charwoman.base.171.png charwoman.base.172.png charwoman.clsc.131.png charwoman.clsc.132.png charwoman.clsc.171.png charwoman.clsc.172.png child.arc child.base.111.png child_thief.arc c_man.arc courier.arc courier.base.111.png courier.clsc.111.png crone.arc crone.base.111.png crone.clsc.111.png c_sage.arc c_woman.arc farmer.arc farmer.base.111.png farmer.base.112.png farmer.clsc.111.png farmer.clsc.112.png fatman.arc fatman.base.111.png fatman.clsc.111.png fatwoman.arc fatwoman.base.111.png fatwoman.clsc.111.png guildmaste.arc guildmaste.base.111.png guildmaste.clsc.111.png man.arc man.base.111.png man.base.131.png man.base.171.png man.clsc.111.png man.clsc.131.png man.clsc.171.png pir_lass.arc pir_lass.base.111.png pir_lass.base.112.png pir_lass.clsc.111.png pir_lass.clsc.112.png princess.arc princess.base.111.png princess.base.112.png princess.base.113.png princess.clsc.111.png princess.clsc.112.png princess.clsc.113.png prisoner.arc prisoner.base.111.png prisoner.base.112.png prisoner.clsc.111.png prisoner.clsc.112.png sage.arc sage.base.111.png sage.clsc.111.png sailor.arc sailor.base.111.png sailor.clsc.111.png woman.arc woman.base.111.png woman.base.131.png woman.base.171.png woman.clsc.111.png woman.clsc.131.png woman.clsc.171.png _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 13 09:58:33 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Can't physically attack powerful monsters Message-ID: <3EE9E699.70107@gmx.at> I can't claw/karate some monsters. First I thought that might be because I worship rugilli who requests that creatures immune to fire shall not be harmed. but now I made a test character and he can claw the dragon high lord in the dragon cave without worshipping and when worshipping rugilli. I don't understand it. I am a big fire dragon (fire hatchling) and my test player is a quetzalcoatl. I am a wizard, test is a barbarian. I now created x, a firehatchling wizard, just like me, ki. X worships rugilli. After killed a dragon (with a little help, but he finished him), a creature immune to fire, he still could claw another dragon, even with immolation, IIRC. I have not seen ki immolate for ages. Is it possible that when becoming higher level when worshipping rugilli that you can't physically attack mighty monsters? For a moment I thought that only applies to fire immune monsters as ki can claw chinese dragons, but that turned out to be probably due to their less might - ki can't claw electric dragons - or are they immune to fire, too. Don't think so. Nah, they are not. What's going on here? Thanks, Bernhard -- Low end Serverhousing ab 25 e inkl. 1x 11 e/GB, etc.: http://bksys.at _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 13 20:12:51 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] proposed treasure lists Message-ID: <3EEA7693.9060202@sympatico.ca> I think it would be a good idea to make a treasurelist entry for each town that works like the jail treasure list, but is tailored for the different towns. Some towns you kill an NPC and a swarm of guards appears, others maybe not so much... Some towns it's the Wizard guild that keeps the peace... I might try my hand at some of this but if anyone else wants to dive in too, I wouldn't say no... Cranking this up in the future, there might even be a way to work lore into this somehow... or perhaps a city/citizen arch object that could influence a bunch of things like how friendly NPCs are or if players carried a citizen arch too, prices of goods or even access to certain buildings. Just a thought. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 14 16:08:23 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals Message-ID: <3EEB8EC7.2000709@sympatico.ca> I have a couple of things I would like to do sooner than later- I would like some feed back before I do them however. I also posted this to the Forum (http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopic.php?t=67) to ensure that the debate lasts forever and I get much abuse and criticism. I would like to hear opinions and I will consider them and I will bow to the consideration of other developers on this but I still want to reserve the right to do these things unless the CEO tells me not to... 1. Change all the wasteland tiles on the Bigworld (check out Mids server for a bigworld map preview) to unpassable mountains and unpassable snowy mountains (based on elevation of course). I think this will look nicer and will in the furute make it more interesting to mountain climb... 2. Extend the Great Highway from Santo Dominion to Darcap to close the circle. 3. Increase the price of guilds on the bigworld maps to 500 000 diamonds (less/more? I initially thought 1 million...) and move the Guildhouses Inc shop to Navar. Add a seperate key system and special rooms for the 3 guild founders as opposed to the general guild members and really increase the sizes of the guild houses to account for more members. I really want to do a bunch of stuff with guilds like have a Guild Contest where guilds can dump precious items (or work monster kills by guilld into the logger?) to have their banners highest on a wall in the Hall of Guilds or somehting...but this is a start. 4. Add a bank (modifying Joris' Code with outlets in Navar and Scorn) - I would like to charge a percent fee (perhaps a variable fee?) for banking and add two new coins called a Royal worth 20 platinum (actually 100 gold) and an Imperial worth 250 plat (1000 gold) and only available from the banks as well). I would like to actually start work on some of these things this weekend... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 14 16:59:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EEB8EC7.2000709@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Todd wrote: > 1. Change all the wasteland tiles on the Bigworld (check out Mids server > for a bigworld map preview) to unpassable mountains and unpassable snowy > mountains (based on elevation of course). I think this will look nicer > and will in the furute make it more interesting to mountain climb... Sounds good to me. > 2. Extend the Great Highway from Santo Dominion to Darcap to close the > circle. IMO, there should definately be a "path" between these two cities. Unless there is a serious geographic hindrance (volcano, large body of water, huge mountain, etc.) The highway makes sense. > 3. Increase the price of guilds on the bigworld maps to 500 000 diamonds > (less/more? I initially thought 1 million...) and move the Guildhouses > Inc shop to Navar. Add a seperate key system and special rooms for the 3 > guild founders as opposed to the general guild members and really > increase the sizes of the guild houses to account for more members. I > really want to do a bunch of stuff with guilds like have a Guild Contest > where guilds can dump precious items (or work monster kills by guilld > into the logger?) to have their banners highest on a wall in the Hall of > Guilds or somehting...but this is a start. Very good ideas. I think the 500k diamond price is an appropriate price. I also think the founding members or guild leader should be easy to find or locate within the game. There have been times I've head to resort to grep'ing player files on metalforge server to find guild members. > 4. Add a bank (modifying Joris' Code with outlets in Navar and Scorn) - > I would like to charge a percent fee (perhaps a variable fee?) for > banking and add two new coins called a Royal worth 20 platinum (actually > 100 gold) and an Imperial worth 250 plat (1000 gold) and only available > from the banks as well). I could be misunderstanding something here, but.. Until we find a way to hinder or prevent people from leaving piles of coins in their apartments, I don't see how or why people would want to use the bank. The idea of a "credit card" or "check" system that would automatically withdraw/deposit currency (so you don't have to carry it around all the coins or gems) into your bank account has been dismissed because it doesn't fit into the genra of the game. - Rick _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 14 19:47:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EEBC236.7060602@sympatico.ca> > > >I could be misunderstanding something here, but.. > >Until we find a way to hinder or prevent people from leaving piles of >coins in their apartments, I don't see how or why people would want to use >the bank. The idea of a "credit card" or "check" system that would >automatically withdraw/deposit currency (so you don't have to carry it >around all the coins or gems) into your bank account has been dismissed >because it doesn't fit into the genra of the game. > >- Rick > > > Think of banking as a money exchange and transfer service then. The primary idea is to allow people to convert to a higher denomination for a fee. I also thought of the idea of selling promisary notes, since I am not sure if player can carry around stuff like 500000 diamonds or the equilivant. In this case you could buy a guild or a castle (still on the back burners) for an obcene amount only by using the bank (We'll happily provide a note for a mere 11% surcharge today sir...) Not quite credit cards but very appropriate banking functions for the time period we are portraying (ok they didn't have dragons, but the Romans had slotmachines I think...). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 15 23:20:23 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EEB8EC7.2000709@sympatico.ca> References: <3EEB8EC7.2000709@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3EED4587.4000807@sonic.net> Todd wrote: > 1. Change all the wasteland tiles on the Bigworld (check out Mids server > for a bigworld map preview) to unpassable mountains and unpassable snowy > mountains (based on elevation of course). I think this will look nicer > and will in the furute make it more interesting to mountain climb... This seems fine. > > 2. Extend the Great Highway from Santo Dominion to Darcap to close the > circle. If I recall correctly, you can currently take the long route or the cross country route. I don't really have a strong opinion on this, but having some things off the beaten path would perhaps be nice. Perhaps instead of a great highway, use the path type archetypes, and perhaps have the path not be continous (fades from view, no path through a mountain, etc). > > 3. Increase the price of guilds on the bigworld maps to 500 000 diamonds > (less/more? I initially thought 1 million...) and move the Guildhouses > Inc shop to Navar. Add a seperate key system and special rooms for the 3 > guild founders as opposed to the general guild members and really > increase the sizes of the guild houses to account for more members. I > really want to do a bunch of stuff with guilds like have a Guild Contest > where guilds can dump precious items (or work monster kills by guilld > into the logger?) to have their banners highest on a wall in the Hall of > Guilds or somehting...but this is a start. If I recall correctly, there are guilds in basically each of the cities. IMO, the purchase place for the key should be in that same city - in other words, a guildhouse inc in each city that has guilds, selling the keys only for that guild. The pricing for guilds is odd. What needs to be figured out what the goal of the guilds is. Simply put, there is a limited number of guilds in the world. Making prices high basically just means it is left to those group of players who can amass large sums of money the fastest. I don't really have an answer for that problem. I'm just making some observations. Maybe an idea would be to have some different level guilds - add a level checker object. So maybe after level 25, your not allowed in guild XYZ, so you need to move on to a new guild. I haven't played much with guilds (being I typically run on my test server to find bugs and whatnot), so not sure of all the uses/advantages of them. > > 4. Add a bank (modifying Joris' Code with outlets in Navar and Scorn) - > I would like to charge a percent fee (perhaps a variable fee?) for > banking and add two new coins called a Royal worth 20 platinum (actually > 100 gold) and an Imperial worth 250 plat (1000 gold) and only available > from the banks as well). Certainly doable. I'm not positive how much it would get used, but that shouldn't stop you from doing it. I just make that comment in that you can convert to gems for a 5% (overall) fee. However, if you do add new coins, either the material or weight would need to be appropriate. It would be perfectly reasonable to have platinum bars with some amount of money, but if a platinum bar is worth 25 platinum, it should probably weigh 25 times as much, so may not be as useful You could certainly add things like 'mithril pieces', or we could convert gems to be more money (eg, that royal is made from platinum & diamond for example). I personally don't see a problem with any of the above. Note that I'd have to double check the code - I think if you sell something, you would still only get silver, gold, platinum. Note also that if denomations were really an issue, the entire money spectrum could be shift, eg, add 'copper' at the bottom end, and thus silver, gold, and platinum get shifted up in value. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 15 23:24:12 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Can't physically attack powerful monsters In-Reply-To: <3EE9E699.70107@gmx.at> References: <3EE9E699.70107@gmx.at> Message-ID: <3EED466C.9080709@sonic.net> Bernhard Kuemel wrote: > I can't claw/karate some monsters. > First I thought that might be because I worship rugilli who requests > that creatures immune to fire shall not be harmed. > but now I made a test character and he can claw the dragon high lord in > the dragon cave without worshipping and when worshipping rugilli. > I don't understand it. > I am a big fire dragon (fire hatchling) and my test player is a > quetzalcoatl. > I am a wizard, test is a barbarian. > > I now created x, a firehatchling wizard, just like me, ki. X worships > rugilli. After killed a dragon (with a little help, but he finished > him), a creature immune to fire, he still could claw another dragon, > even with immolation, IIRC. I have not seen ki immolate for ages. > > Is it possible that when becoming higher level when worshipping rugilli > that you can't physically attack mighty monsters? For a moment I thought > that only applies to fire immune monsters as ki can claw chinese > dragons, but that turned out to be probably due to their less might - ki > can't claw electric dragons - or are they immune to fire, too. Don't > think so. Nah, they are not. I would think it might have more to do with the race than god. I'm not sure exactly what rugilli woud add, but best to my knowledge, no god actually prevents you from attacking any monster. It's really your attacktype. Best thing might be to see what the attacktypes of your characters are - it probably that they somehow differ. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 16 02:40:40 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] spell values. Message-ID: <3EED7478.5010906@sonic.net> I'm moving along with the spell as object code. one issue I've come up with is appropriate value for the different objects. For reference, in the new system, each spell is an object. The 'value' attribute of the spell determines the base value of the spell. When an object that uses a spell is created (spellbook, wand, rod, scroll, etc), it takes teh value of teh scroll, multiples it by the value of the arch itself to find a value. Thus, for example, if a spell has a value of '5', and a scroll has a value of '10', the value of the scroll is 50. This is a bit simplistic - things like the level of the object, how many charges (for wands) adjust the value also. So what I'm trying to figure out is what should the relative values of these different objects be: scroll, wand, light rod, heavy rod, potion, spellbook. For example: scroll: 1 wand: 10 light rod: 100 heave rod: 200 potion: 5 spellbook: 400 This is just off the top of my head. BTW, all objects will get you exp - but in many cases, it will just shuffle to 'use magic item', which level doesn't matter, but does mean it does give you credit for overall level. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 16 05:42:51 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Can't physically attack powerful monsters In-Reply-To: <3EED466C.9080709@sonic.net> References: <3EE9E699.70107@gmx.at> <3EED466C.9080709@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3EED9F2B.8090204@gmx.at> Mark Wedel wrote: >> I can't claw/karate some monsters. > It's really your attacktype. Best thing might be to see what the > attacktypes of your characters are - it probably that they somehow differ. Seems you are right. I appearently could boil it down to weapon class. If I wear ring of strife/combat I can attack the dragons again while none of the other features of these rings does it. Is there some gradual effect of wc? If so, I think this curve should be stretched before the step where it stops physical attacks completely. Bernhard -- Low end Serverhousing ab 25 e inkl. 1x 11 e/GB, etc.: http://bksys.at _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 16 05:41:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch for minor bug, and a minor bug Message-ID: <20030616104116.GA774@kevin> As dungeonmaster, if you click on a shop tile, you'll find that shop-type items are turning up *inside* the tile. Having spent all that time rolling for treasure that no-one can get to seems a waste of memory. ;) A patch against CVS: krudat@kevin:~/fiddling/crossfire/crossfire/crossfire/server$ cvs diff -u apply.c Index: apply.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/server/apply.c,v retrieving revision 1.82 diff -u -r1.82 apply.c --- apply.c 24 May 2003 04:51:12 -0000 1.82 +++ apply.c 16 Jun 2003 10:06:50 -0000 @@ -3234,7 +3234,7 @@ update_ob_speed(tmp); } if(tmp && tmp->arch && tmp->type!=PLAYER && tmp->type!=TREASURE && - tmp->randomitems) + tmp->type!=SHOP_FLOOR && tmp->randomitems) create_treasure(tmp->randomitems, tmp, GT_APPLY, m->difficulty,0); } Now for a stranger problem. I'd call it minor since it's probably difficult to reproduce and won't affect normal play. Also, as dungeon master, if I 'create gem of flawless beauty', I get two or three diamonds, but they have the face of the pretty emerald. 'dump'ing them doesn't reveal anything else out of place. The above two things have been confirmed in the CVS version and a 1.1.0 server. The below thing I've only tested in CVS version, as the 1.1.0 server doesn't have the Python plugin. There's a stranger bug involving diamonds of flawless beauty. When I open the pouch described below, the bow of Auriga, waybread of Aelingas and rubies come out okay, but the diamonds, emeralds and sapphires of flawless beauty all use the diamond face and completely wrong. To me, the numbers look like they're pointers to *something* which have been written to the value field by mistake. They're still turning out like this after a clean recompile of the server. Erk, now that I've tested it again, if I open the pouch three times in a row, the server segfaults in libc6, but in a different function. Another pouch that doesn't count up the value of unpaid items first segfaults on the first opening. (gdb) bt #0 0x400f4099 in realloc () from /lib/libc.so.6 #1 0x400f3fb4 in realloc () from /lib/libc.so.6 #2 0x40202846 in PyNode_AddChild () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #3 0x40202c27 in PyParser_AddToken () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #4 0x40202ff7 in PyParser_Delete () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #5 0x402032c1 in PyParser_ParseFileFlags () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #6 0x40273a94 in PyParser_SimpleParseFileFlags () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #7 0x40273c4f in PyRun_FileExFlags () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #8 0x402726ef in PyRun_SimpleFileExFlags () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #9 0x40273923 in PyRun_SimpleFileEx () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #10 0x402738fb in PyRun_SimpleFile () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #11 0x401df2e5 in HandleEvent (PParm=0xbffff894) at plugin_python.c:6882 #12 0x401ded69 in triggerEvent (PParm=0xbffff894) at plugin_python.c:6704 #13 0x0805ddee in manual_apply (op=0x813c548, tmp=0x88917b0, aflag=0) at apply.c:2196 #14 0x0805e300 in player_apply (pl=0x813c548, op=0x88917b0, aflag=0, quiet=0) at apply.c:2423 #15 0x080d4641 in ApplyCmd (buf=0x881be50 "1304", len=4, pl=0x4031e008) at item.c:596 #16 0x080d5257 in HandleClient (ns=0x4031e00c, pl=0x4031e008) at loop.c:363 #17 0x080d5990 in doeric_server () at loop.c:618 #18 0x08079493 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffc84) at main.c:1173 (gdb) bt #0 0x400f3c1b in free () from /lib/libc.so.6 #1 0x400f3aa3 in free () from /lib/libc.so.6 #2 0x4022c5ce in _PyObject_Del () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #3 0x40232d0d in PyString_AsDecodedObject () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #4 0x402344e7 in PyTuple_SetItem () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #5 0x4025673e in PyEval_EvalCode () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #6 0x4027405c in PyOS_setsig () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #7 0x40273fef in PyOS_setsig () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #8 0x40273c7d in PyRun_FileExFlags () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #9 0x402726ef in PyRun_SimpleFileExFlags () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #10 0x40273923 in PyRun_SimpleFileEx () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #11 0x402738fb in PyRun_SimpleFile () from /usr/lib/libpython2.2.so.0.0 #12 0x401df2e5 in HandleEvent (PParm=0xbffff894) at plugin_python.c:6882 #13 0x401ded69 in triggerEvent (PParm=0xbffff894) at plugin_python.c:6704 #14 0x0805ddee in manual_apply (op=0x813c548, tmp=0x88d39b4, aflag=0) at apply.c:2196 #15 0x0805e300 in player_apply (pl=0x813c548, op=0x88d39b4, aflag=0, quiet=0) at apply.c:2423 #16 0x080d4641 in ApplyCmd (buf=0x881be50 "1627", len=4, pl=0x4031e008) at item.c:596 #17 0x080d5257 in HandleClient (ns=0x4031e00c, pl=0x4031e008) at loop.c:363 #18 0x080d5990 in doeric_server () at loop.c:618 #19 0x08079493 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffc84) at main.c:1173 arch pouch title of Shopping event_apply /python/pouch_shopping.py event_apply_plugin Python materialname cloth end Below is the event script: # ## Triggers on EVENT_CLOSE, which means it needs to be a script for a container. ## I'd like it to be on 'open', but that's a little hard to hook for, or something. :( ## Hooking it to EVENT_APPLY would make it fire twice. # Meant to be attached to a pouch. (What else?) # Might be fairly self-documenting. # Corollary: do not let a player obtain an object with this event linked. import CFPython this = CFPython.WhoAmI() # Gives us a long that was the pointer inside Crossfire. :( # Not that the surrogates really work that way, mind you. :( # ...NULL is 0 on my computer, via Python. (Argh argh argh...) NULL = 0 if this != NULL: # ... I thought this was called BEFORE esrv_apply_container(). :P # Well, we'll try the other one of three. if not CFPython.IsApplied(this): ## *Hopefully* means the container was applied, and is now being ## opened; the *second* middle-click in the three-state cycle. ## ch=CFPython.WhoIsActivator() if ch != NULL: foo = CFPython.GetInventory(ch) if foo != NULL: # Just to be sure, find the real top before actually traversing the list. while foo != NULL: top = foo foo = CFPython.GetPreviousObject(top) total_unpaid = 0 # Now whirl over the contents of the character. ob=top while ob != NULL: #CFPython.Write("Object '%s'" % (CFPython.GetName(ob),), ch) if CFPython.IsUnpaid(ob): #CFPython.Write(" is unpaid", ch) cost = CFPython.GetObjectCost(ch, ob, CFPython.CostFlagFBuy()) #CFPython.Write(" and would cost '%d' to buy." % cost, ch) total_unpaid = total_unpaid + cost ob = CFPython.GetNextObject(ob) CFPython.Write("You're carrying '%d' of potential purchases." % (total_unpaid,), ch) # Seems to be in silver. ## Turns out to be worth approx. 2 ^ 32 - 1 platinum. #CFPython.CreateObjectInside("diamond of flawless beauty", this) # Still one plat long. CFPython.CreateObjectInside("platinacoin", this) # Doesn't seem outrageously overpriced. CFPython.CreateObjectInside("ruby", this) ## These look like diamonds, and have the wrong (probably pointerized) value. #CFPython.CreateObjectInside("ruby of flawless beauty", this) # CFPython.CreateObjectInside("sapphire of flawless beauty", this) # CFPython.CreateObjectInside("emerald of flawless beauty", this) # CFPython.CreateObjectInside("waybread of Aelingas", this) # Comes out unidentified, but otherwise unharmed. CFPython.CreateObjectInside("bow of Auriga", this) # One other strangeness I've noted, is that ... (aside from the segfaults # in libc6 :P) DM-created items have materials, but pouch created items don't. # Or maybe the other way around. # No returning from a module, bleh. :P -- Thanks, -- Kevin "Third Time's an Evacuation" Rudat Has been bitten by semantics before. Sci-Fi/Fantasy ... type. Pretends to know a bit of programming. Very bad manners. Terrible posture and co-ordination. A forgetful ... wha? Humans are an example of a species rushed to life without proper testing... they have LOTS of bugs to fix. ;> _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 16 09:45:02 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] proposed treasure lists In-Reply-To: <3EEA7693.9060202@sympatico.ca> References: <3EEA7693.9060202@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20030616144502.GB12970@crystal> On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 09:12:51PM -0400, Todd wrote: > I think it would be a good idea to make a treasurelist entry for each > town that works like the jail treasure list, but is tailored for the > different towns. Some towns you kill an NPC and a swarm of guards > appears, others maybe not so much... Some towns it's the Wizard guild > that keeps the peace... I like this idea. Certainly beats the current hackish idea of putting a guard "inside" the cleaning woman. (cf. Scorn and Navar libraries.) [snip] > Cranking this up in the future, there might even be a way to work lore > into this somehow... or perhaps a city/citizen arch object that could > influence a bunch of things like how friendly NPCs are or if players > carried a citizen arch too, prices of goods or even access to certain > buildings. [snip] It'd be neat if each city has an overall bias for/against certain classes/races. E.g., Navar officials would dislike magicians, Wolfsburg citizens would welcome thieves, etc.. Just a thought. This would be reflected in access to buildings, aggressiveness of guards, and shop prices, etc.. And perhaps the player can carry a "reputation" arch that offsets this bias if the player has done good/bad deeds in that town. T -- And life still goes on... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 16 11:33:57 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EED4587.4000807@sonic.net> References: <3EEB8EC7.2000709@sympatico.ca> <3EED4587.4000807@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3EEDF175.1060202@sympatico.ca> >> 4. Add a bank[...] > > I personally don't see a problem with any of the above. Note that I'd > have to double check the code - I think if you sell something, you > would still only get silver, gold, platinum. If that is true it might be a plus actually. I would like to see these coins not available as currency so much as the standard coinage. As for copper - I wouldn't want to mess with the existing money. I was hoping to use artifical coins such as royals and Imperials which are more like diamonds than coinage > (eg, that royal is made from platinum & diamond for example). and not actually based on a metal standard. This would provide a way to have a common currency along side more local currencies perhaps. The Imperial might be worth crap (really high or non existant exchange rate) someplaces. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 16 13:46:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pupland bugs Message-ID: <20030616184648.GA14047@crystal> Hi, here is a list of Pupland-related bugs that may or may not have been fixed in CVS. (These are bugs in the current Pupland maps on Metalforge.) 1) General: a lot of NPC's in pupland, which were standing still before, are now moving about. This is wrong, since in some places they become a hindrance or break the map. Here are some instances of it: a) Training house in Lone Town: 2-3 of the NPCs somehow always run into the corridor, and get stuck there, blocking the player from accessing the training rooms. b) Siegfried's house: Siegfried should NOT move unless provoked (I'm not sure what settings are needed in the object for this; is it even possible with the latest code??). There is only one spot where the player can talk to him; if he moves from that spot, the player cannot talk to him. The magic mouth on the other side of the wall indicates that the intention is for the player to speak with him right there. I've actually observed him standing elsewhere, either because of random movement, or some other factor. c) Liberation Army training center: some of the NPC's move about; they are supposed to remain standing in rank. Specifically, some of the NPC's around the "traitor" who's standing over a hole, are moving when they shouldn't. d) The woman in the towers of reception: she doesn't move around by default; but she should have friendly=1; otherwise if someone accidentally runs into her, the magic mouths in the corridor make no sense. e) Pupuly, in Pupuly's Tower (Lone Town) is NOT supposed to budge from where he is, in the center of the square!! The whole point of the map is to reach him so that the player can talk to him. The design of the map makes it clear that the intent is to have him drop through the "escape holes" after the player defeats Nazgul. Right now, he moves about, and the player can talk to him immediately by standing next to the wall, which makes the rest of the map pointless. 2) The hyper kobold in the cave outside Nuernberg is broken. When the player opens the 2nd (or 3rd) door, he is supposed to charge down, and kill the behemoth and titan very quickly. However, after he kills the behemoth, he stops moving, and doesn't attack the player. This is wrong. 3) The Power Plant is broken. One of the keys in basement no longer exists, which makes 3 rooms inaccessible. The original map has 2 Wraith guards, one of whom carries the key. It looks like the basement has been revamped, and the wraiths are no longer there; so probably the original wraith got deleted unintentionally along with the key. (Or it could be the intention that the key be moved to the "secret" level reached from the ladder on the island; but there is no key there at the moment.) 4) In the Eternal Road (secret cave leading to Eureca's castle), which corresponds with the map in the Guard Room in the first level of the cave, there is one square with a magic mouth which is supposed to say "o" (check original maps). Currently, it says nothing, which is wrong. This seems to be an instance of a common problem with crossedit: if you edit an object's msg field in crossedit, and the message doesn't end with a newline, crossedit DELETES THE LAST CHARACTER in the message. Obviously, this is a bug in crossedit. I've seen a lot of maps where the last character in a description gets truncated this way. It seems that every time someone edits the description, it grows one char less. 5) Kurte's house (modern Pupland): a) Last test (questions about Shining Kingdom--shouldn't that be renamed to Pupland? Or maybe that's the "native name" for Pupland?): the various NPC's in here, which are sorta like "flashbacks" to earlier Pupland scenes, should NOT move, since they would obstruct hallways and move into rooms they aren't supposed to. b) Kurte: I'm not sure exactly what happened, but Kurte no longer recognizes all the keywords that were originally there (and still referenced by what Kurte says). This is very annoying, since in the original map he explains to the player what the research scrolls are for, etc., but now he doesn't. The player also has to guess the keyword for opening the time portal to ancient pupland. This is clearly broken. 6) The Thunder Bow and Thunder bolts in the Towers of Reception have negative wc bonus instead of positive. Doesn't this mean they are making the wielder's wc *worse*? (E.g., a ring of Strife has wc+4, which reduces the player's wc by 4 points; it seems that the intent of the Thunder Bow and Thunder bolts should be the same.) 7) Eureca's castle: a) Prison: I'm not sure what the original intention is, but shouldn't Lauretta and Bernie be non-moving in the center of the cell somewhere? Right now the player can talk to her across the wall, which kinda defeats the point of killing the demons. Also, from Bernie's speech, it seems that he shouldn't be wandering around. b) (This has probably been fixed, I seem to remember somebody mentioning this somewhere before) Upstairs from the Bonehead's level: the stairs going up should lead to the (2,2) where the staircase down is, rather than right next to the electric dragon. 8) Atelir of Artifact (ancient pupland): - the smith should NOT move around; the whole point is that the player must reach him to speak to him, instead of being able to talk to him through the other side of the wall. - also, is it intentional that setting off the earth elemental trap causes the elementals to kill the smith? That's all the Pupland bugs I remember encountering in the past 1-2 weeks on Metalforge. I'll report more if I run into more in the future. T -- Windows 95 was a joke, and Windows 98 was the punchline. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 16 22:47:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] proposed treasure lists In-Reply-To: <20030616144502.GB12970@crystal> References: <3EEA7693.9060202@sympatico.ca> <20030616144502.GB12970@crystal> Message-ID: <3EEE8F52.8050304@sonic.net> H. S. Teoh wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 09:12:51PM -0400, Todd wrote: > >>I think it would be a good idea to make a treasurelist entry for each >>town that works like the jail treasure list, but is tailored for the >>different towns. Some towns you kill an NPC and a swarm of guards >>appears, others maybe not so much... Some towns it's the Wizard guild >>that keeps the peace... > > > I like this idea. Certainly beats the current hackish idea of putting a > guard "inside" the cleaning woman. (cf. Scorn and Navar libraries.) Note that the above plan wouldn't really change that - the whatever would probably still be in the inventory, but the whatever could be different. One could certainly station a bunch of guards around in the public places. If player does something nasty, one could tie a script to the guards so they make the player 'wanted', so if the player goes near any other guards, they would wake up an attack him. However, we are going way beyond what the code currently supports. > [snip] > > It'd be neat if each city has an overall bias for/against certain > classes/races. E.g., Navar officials would dislike magicians, Wolfsburg > citizens would welcome thieves, etc.. Just a thought. This would be > reflected in access to buildings, aggressiveness of guards, and shop > prices, etc.. And perhaps the player can carry a "reputation" arch that > offsets this bias if the player has done good/bad deeds in that town. That would be neat, I agree. its non trivial to do - especially if you start looking at all the combinations - you'd basically need to have a racial adjustment table to each local, as well as a class adjustment. These would modify the players existing reputation, which could be stored as an object (even a timed object, so that the player is slowly forgotten - reputation could also be negative, so if your wanted by the guards, and time passes, peopel forget you are wanted). The object part of that isn't hard. Having everything look for the reputation part is. And putting in some form of code which says 'dwarves are disliked, elves are liked, humans are neutral'. One also needs to be careful that reputation doesn't effect things too much, eg, one should never be able to buy stuff for less they can sell it for. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 17 00:21:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] proposed treasure lists In-Reply-To: <3EEE8F52.8050304@sonic.net> References: <3EEA7693.9060202@sympatico.ca> <20030616144502.GB12970@crystal> <3EEE8F52.8050304@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3EEEA56B.7080406@sympatico.ca> I have to appologize for woolgathering on this without really being concrete - I was mulling - the specific thing I was going to do was to make some treasure lists for some of the cities such as the jail list so that when an NPC gets killed there would be different consequences - in Scorn you have the City guards, in Santo Dominion maybe the town milita, in Navar - wizards... very basic and simple to do. It would make it easier to assign them is all. If you are putting a NPC in Navar you just drop in the treasurelist (is it possible to assign more than one treasure list? - that would make them more modular...) But (you knew there would be one) what I have been thinking of and what leaked out in my initial e-mail was to have an object to put in player and creature inventory representing the town they belong to (or the guild perhaps...). This is something that could be checked against to get like 'a home town advantage' and a "stranger factor' when talking to NPC's, when entering certain buildings, when purchasing goods. Or maybe what I am thinking of is simpler than this - a location field that could be used to compare two objects (player and map, player and npc, link a book or a monster to general local lore tables...) Or maybe I was thinking that if there were a more Goddish object (but different of course) for the guilds and towns and if people could belong to them like they do the Gods that all sorts of fun things could come up. If the guards and shops of a town have an Navar property and Navar and Port Joseph are at odds (DM command?) then players who are citizens of Port Joseph will not be well recieved by guards in Navar or welcom in the civic buildsing or the shops. I dont know what I was thinking specifically actually...I should settle down and get back to work. Anyway - right now I am working on a randomizer object which is super easy object (have to start somewhere) - so I will just be making city treasure lists for the moment and save large coding projects like the town and guild objects for later on. Just woolgathering. I am pleased to hear the spells as arches is going well and that you can put treasure lists in seperate files with the arches now (yes?)... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 17 00:43:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] proposed treasure lists In-Reply-To: <3EEEA56B.7080406@sympatico.ca> References: <3EEA7693.9060202@sympatico.ca> <20030616144502.GB12970@crystal> <3EEE8F52.8050304@sonic.net> <3EEEA56B.7080406@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3EEEAA94.5000602@sonic.net> Todd wrote: > I have to appologize for woolgathering on this without really being > concrete - I was mulling - the specific thing I was going to do was to > make some treasure lists for some of the cities such as the jail list so > that when an NPC gets killed there would be different consequences - in > Scorn you have the City guards, in Santo Dominion maybe the town milita, > in Navar - wizards... very basic and simple to do. It would make it > easier to assign them is all. If you are putting a NPC in Navar you just > drop in the treasurelist (is it possible to assign more than one > treasure list? - that would make them more modular...) You can't assign more than one treasurelists. Currently, treasurelist are like images - these are resources that are gathered - you can't make a new treasurelist in an object - you have to use one that exists already. However, treasure lists can contain treasurelists - in fact, a large number of the treasurelists currently do this. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 17 02:05:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pupland bugs References: <20030616184648.GA14047@crystal> Message-ID: <9721.1055833548@www2.gmx.net> > Hi, here is a list of Pupland-related bugs that may or may not have been > fixed in CVS. (These are bugs in the current Pupland maps on Metalforge.) > > 1) General: a lot of NPC's in pupland, which were standing still before, > are now moving about. This is wrong, since in some places they become a > hindrance or break the map. Here are some instances of it: You're right, thanks for the notice. This isn't hard to fix, however, I am certain that the NPCs didn't move around initially. A change in the server code must have caused this. Before, all monsters with "unagressive 1" or "friendly 1" didn't move. Now it seems monsters with "unagressive 1" are still standing, but those with "friendly 1" have started to hop around. I wonder if this affects more maps than just pupland. Maybe it would be good to restore the old behaviour where friendly guys don't move? If not them I'm gonna glue the NPCs to their position with stand_still flags. AndreasV -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ Bitte l?cheln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage! _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 17 06:04:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pupland bugs In-Reply-To: <9721.1055833548@www2.gmx.net> References: <20030616184648.GA14047@crystal> <9721.1055833548@www2.gmx.net> Message-ID: <20030617110447.GA21866@crystal> On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 09:05:48AM +0200, Andreas Vogl wrote: > > Hi, here is a list of Pupland-related bugs that may or may not have been > > fixed in CVS. (These are bugs in the current Pupland maps on Metalforge.) > > > > 1) General: a lot of NPC's in pupland, which were standing still before, > > are now moving about. This is wrong, since in some places they become a > > hindrance or break the map. Here are some instances of it: > > You're right, thanks for the notice. > > This isn't hard to fix, however, I am certain that the NPCs didn't move > around initially. A change in the server code must have caused this. > Before, all monsters with "unagressive 1" or "friendly 1" didn't move. > Now it seems monsters with "unagressive 1" are still standing, but > those with "friendly 1" have started to hop around. Hmm, that makes things a bit complicated. IIRC, the old behaviour was that "unaggressive 1" means the NPC won't attack you, but will if you provoke them; and "friendly 1" means you cannot attack them at all. Some of the NPCs in pupland were set to "friendly 1" so that they cannot be accidentally provoked. > I wonder if this affects more maps than just pupland. I think it might, it does look like a server code change, not a map change. > Maybe it would be good to restore the old behaviour where friendly > guys don't move? Or default it to stand_still unless explicitly overridden? > If not them I'm gonna glue the NPCs to their position with > stand_still flags. [snip] Sounds like the easiest solution at the moment. T -- A programmer is a device for turning computer programs into spaghetti. A *good* programmer is a device for turning spaghetti into computer programs. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 17 23:59:36 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Old Age Message-ID: <001e01c33556$6b3b16c0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Here is a thought I just had to share. How about age in Crossfire. A value you get when you create the character and as game time progresses so do you age. This would make some races more attractive (elves live longer..) and allow you to tweek racial modifiers in a whole new way (elves are really weak max str is 20 or have an xp modifier of 1.5 required to gain levels...). Age can effect stats, heck even change the player image if we wanted to get silly about it (Hail o wizened one) You can also put in goodies to extend lifespan and vitality (fountain of youth). You would have to keep two ages, real age and functioning age. If the second is less then the first you may have to keep getting potions or spells to maintain it... It would mean if you don't play for a long time your character will grow weaker over long periods of time and eventually pass on... Good for the server admins eh? I don't think it would be too hard to do this either. It's not something you have to check too often. Anyway maybe it's stupid since I don't have a real appreciation for how much server time equates to real time but it seems like such a good idea... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20030618/7b10209c/attachment.html From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 17 18:01:41 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Old Age In-Reply-To: <001e01c33556$6b3b16c0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: On 18-Jun-03 Todd Mitchell wrote: > How about age in Crossfire. A value you get when you create the character > and > as game time progresses so do you age. This would make some races more > attractive (elves live longer..) and allow you to tweek racial modifiers in a > whole new way (elves are really weak max str is 20 or have an xp modifier of > 1.5 required to gain levels...). Age can effect stats, heck even change the > player image if we wanted to get silly about it (Hail o wizened one) We did this on my mud. Basically elves were birthed at 200 years, humans at 17. They aged at the same rate. Age affected the speed of your mana/hp recovery. For humans, it ramped up quickly to about 35-45.. where you were at max recovery. After that, it started getting worse, and at around 85 you would experience random heart attacks. Elves on the other hand just slowly got better, but even at about 1200 years, it was never as good as the humans at age 35. We allowed you to buy age up or down with exp. I think we also made the haste spell age you, like in AD&D. Other monsters had wither attacks, which caused rapid aging, and you had to defeat them before you got too old. It's fairly trivial to implement.. and one of the reasons I implemented a time system. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 17 18:56:27 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Old Age References: Message-ID: <001201c3352c$10cfe8c0$0a02a8c0@kameria> > We did this on my mud. Basically elves were birthed at 200 years, humans at > 17. They aged at the same rate. Age affected the speed of your mana/hp > recovery. For humans, it ramped up quickly to about 35-45.. where you were at > max recovery. After that, it started getting worse, and at around 85 you would > experience random heart attacks. Elves on the other hand just slowly got > better, but even at about 1200 years, it was never as good as the humans at age > 35. We allowed you to buy age up or down with exp. I think we also made the > haste spell age you, like in AD&D. Other monsters had wither attacks, which > caused rapid aging, and you had to defeat them before you got too old. > > It's fairly trivial to implement.. and one of the reasons I implemented a time > system. thought you'd like that one...I hadn't thought of an wither attack though- that's very good... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 03:51:11 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EEB8EC7.2000709@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20030618085111.3295.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd wrote: > 4. Add a bank (modifying Joris' Code with outlets in Navar and Scorn) - > I would like to charge a percent fee (perhaps a variable fee?) for > banking and add two new coins called a Royal worth 20 platinum (actually > 100 gold) and an Imperial worth 250 plat (1000 gold) and only available > from the banks as well). I have made some extensive modifications to the bank / post office Python scripts. Remind me to send them to you on Saturday. While on the subject of changing Big World, I wrote a script to create a large forest out of the area south of the Dark Forest, basically filling that valley around the lakes. It is part of a castle I placed in there somewhere (finding it is half the fun B-) ). Designing this castle is what prompted my to fix those things I posted fixes for recently, 'cause I needed them to work. Currently work on this is halted, as I installed SuSE 8.2 recently and now I can't compile Crossfire 1.5 (Suse comes with 1.3). Anybody now how to fix this? In particular, Crossfire always has problems locating Python, even on older versions of SuSE. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 03:59:27 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030618085927.67214.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Rick Tanner wrote: > I could be misunderstanding something here, but.. > > Until we find a way to hinder or prevent people from leaving piles of > coins in their apartments, I don't see how or why people would want to > use the bank. I have a character that is stinking rich (Prince of the castle I mentioned earlier) and he uses banks to store a large slab of his money. Why? The bank is close to the shops, saves him from carrying large amounts to and from his apartment, saves him trying to find a new spot all those coins in his apartments. You don't want to put too many coins in the one spot, it becomes hard to pick up an amount you can actually carry. > The idea of a "credit card" or "check" system that would > automatically withdraw/deposit currency (so you don't have to carry it > around all the coins or gems) into your bank account has been dismissed > because it doesn't fit into the genra of the game. Banks have been around for a very long time. They are mostly in the business of making money from loans, storing money is just a service they offer so that they have a bigger capital base to make loans from. If you add loans to the system, it makes more sense, and you can send big nasty monsters after defaulters B-). http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 04:01:41 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EEBC236.7060602@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20030618090141.90551.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd wrote: > > happily provide a note for a mere 11% surcharge today sir...) Not quite My modifications to the banking scripts include fees. Fees that are deposited in the account of the owner B-). Gives my prince character an incentive to build more banks. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 04:12:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] proposed treasure lists In-Reply-To: <20030616144502.GB12970@crystal> Message-ID: <20030618091231.91955.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "H. S. Teoh" wrote: > It'd be neat if each city has an overall bias for/against certain > classes/races. E.g., Navar officials would dislike magicians, Wolfsburg > citizens would welcome thieves, etc.. Just a thought. This would be > reflected in access to buildings, aggressiveness of guards, and shop > prices, etc.. And perhaps the player can carry a "reputation" arch that > offsets this bias if the player has done good/bad deeds in that town. I'm doing something similar in my castle design. The bias is towards Elvish worshippers of Lythander, because the Prince is an elf that worships Lythander. Once you get on the Princes good side (quest involved), you get access to the upper floors of certain buildings within the castle. The apartments have altars that are pre-consecrated to Lythander, although they can be re-consecrated. I hadn't thought of shop discounts, good idea. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 04:23:11 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pupland bugs In-Reply-To: <9721.1055833548@www2.gmx.net> Message-ID: <20030618092311.2246.qmail@web21310.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Vogl wrote: > This isn't hard to fix, however, I am certain that the NPCs didn't move > around initially. A change in the server code must have caused this. > Before, all monsters with "unagressive 1" or "friendly 1" didn't move. > Now it seems monsters with "unagressive 1" are still standing, but > those with "friendly 1" have started to hop around. It certainly explains major changes in the behaviour of citizens and critters in my castle map. There is one room where a dozen or so citizens are supposed to wander around randomly. Now, when a player enters a room, he get's instantly surrounded and can't move. So do I invert "unagressive" and "friendly"? Or wait for it to be put back? http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 21:48:23 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals References: <20030618085111.3295.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001c3360d$411e85e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> > I have made some extensive modifications to the bank / post office Python > scripts. Remind me to send them to you on Saturday. > great, like to see them. > While on the subject of changing Big World, I wrote a script to create a > large forest out of the area south of the Dark Forest, basically filling > that valley around the lakes. It is part of a castle I placed in there > somewhere (finding it is half the fun B-) ). Designing this castle is what > prompted my to fix those things I posted fixes for recently, 'cause I > needed them to work. > Good, one drawback of the auto-generation used to build bigworld was that there were no large forests or deserts (just mountain ranges and lakes). This is something that should be fixed over time by mapmakers. One thing, did you backfill in the elevation? There are a couple automated options to do this now and I think that until we can figure out a better way to do weather we should try to keep the elevation information as much as possible. > Currently work on this is halted, as I installed SuSE 8.2 recently and now > I can't compile Crossfire 1.5 (Suse comes with 1.3). Anybody now how to > fix this? In particular, Crossfire always has problems locating Python, > even on older versions of SuSE. > > It shouldn't, where does SuSE put the Python development stuff? I know some systems do not install the Python header file unles you install the dev package... There is a bug in the 1.5.0 crossfire configure script where the search for the Python.h is (the path it follows is /usrlocal/ when it should be /usr/local) but this is fixed in CVS. WHere does SuSe put python.h - maybe if it is different you can let us know and we can update the configure script to detect it (well maybe not me unless it is a simple hack)... do you have python development installed? If it is really different location or version of python there is also a --with prefix to point to your Python.h '--with-includes=I _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 22:04:07 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals References: <20030618085927.67214.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c3360f$73d2a5a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> > Banks have been around for a very long time. They are mostly in the > business of making money from loans, storing money is just a service they > offer so that they have a bigger capital base to make loans from. If you > add loans to the system, it makes more sense, and you can send big nasty > monsters after defaulters B-). I'm not too keen on having systems for loaning money in the game - I think that would be too hard to manage properly (get a loan, give the money away, kill the character off...). >I hadn't thought of shop discounts, good idea. As for shop discounts - we should be really careful about this because price differences are subject to abuse. Maybe instead of a discount, it would be better to have a surcharge added to all the shops except the ones favorable to the player. (for example is there were some sort of citizenship token in the game, you would pay normal price in your own town, but higher prices everywhere else...) This would work the same way but be less open to abuse. Selling value could be way more modified than purchase price since money spends pretty well anywhere, but merchants are less likely to pay strangers top dollar for merchandise. This would also encourage people to stick close to home to sell large items... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 17:18:57 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <001001c3360d$411e85e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <20030618085111.3295.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> <001001c3360d$411e85e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <20030618221857.GB6364@crystal> On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 10:48:23PM -0400, Todd Mitchell wrote: [snip] > Good, one drawback of the auto-generation used to build bigworld was that > there were no large forests or deserts (just mountain ranges and lakes). > This is something that should be fixed over time by mapmakers. I was thinking of turning one of the lake areas into a large swamp. Any objections? :-) Also, suggestions of where to put it would be nice. > One thing, did you backfill in the elevation? There are a couple > automated options to do this now and I think that until we can figure > out a better way to do weather we should try to keep the elevation > information as much as possible. [snip] Ideally, this should be supported in the Java Editor. Is AV working on this? :-) T -- Heuristics are bug-ridden by definition. If they didn't have bugs, they'd be algorithms. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 22:04:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <001001c3360d$411e85e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <20030619030417.14707.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> I'll answer your Python questions on Saturday when I am in a better position to supply details. --- Todd Mitchell wrote: > Good, one drawback of the auto-generation used to build bigworld was that > there were no large forests or deserts (just mountain ranges and lakes). I'll upload it somewhere on Saturday, warts and all. > This is something that should be fixed over time by mapmakers. One > thing, did you backfill in the elevation? There are a couple automated > options to do this now and I think that until we can figure out a better > way to do weather we should try to keep the elevation information as much > as possible. The script I wrote to do the conversion simply does a string change on the arches used in certain maps, all else is left untouched. By carefully selecting which substitutions to make and which maps to make them on, I ended up with a very natural looking large forest. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 18 22:24:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <20030618221857.GB6364@crystal> Message-ID: <20030619032455.18477.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "H. S. Teoh" wrote: > I was thinking of turning one of the lake areas into a large swamp. Any > objections? :-) Also, suggestions of where to put it would be nice. Um, have a look at my large forest first to make sure we are not both trying to rebuild the same area? If you do, note the position of the castle, I don't really want to change it by much, and I don't want it ending up in the middle of a large swamp B-). If you are thinking of the same area, the three southern most lakes would be a good place. Until I can send some pictures and maps on Saturday, I'll try to describe it. I am talking about the area between the roads from Scorn to Brittany and Navar, west of the mountain range. The Dark Forest is in the north section of the area, Dragon Lord City is on the east edge. Currently, it is mostly forested / wooded valley. I am assuming that north is the top of the maps as per usual, while noting that while I was playing with the weather code I found the north and south poles in the corners, with the equator running diagonally down the maps. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 00:43:25 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <20030619032455.18477.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030619032455.18477.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EF14D7D.701@sympatico.ca> David Seikel wrote: > --- "H. S. Teoh" wrote: > > >>I was thinking of turning one of the lake areas into a large swamp. Any >>objections? :-) Also, suggestions of where to put it would be nice. >> >> > >Um, have a look at my large forest first to make sure we are not both >trying to rebuild the same area? If you do, note the position of the >castle, I don't really want to change it by much, and I don't want it >ending up in the middle of a large swamp B-). If you are thinking of the >same area, the three southern most lakes would be a good place. > >Until I can send some pictures and maps on Saturday, I'll try to describe >it. I am talking about the area between the roads from Scorn to Brittany >and Navar, west of the mountain range. The Dark Forest is in the north >section of the area, Dragon Lord City is on the east edge. Currently, it >is mostly forested / wooded valley. > > > > How big is this forest? If you are talking about the area between Scorn, Britanny and Navar that is a *lot* of area... You are using the bigworld maps right - that is the only mapset that weather works for as far as I know. You have to leave a little room for the rest of the world there too eh.. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 01:23:22 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pupland bugs In-Reply-To: <9721.1055833548@www2.gmx.net> References: <20030616184648.GA14047@crystal> <9721.1055833548@www2.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3EF156DA.2030808@sonic.net> Andreas Vogl wrote: > > You're right, thanks for the notice. > > This isn't hard to fix, however, I am certain that the NPCs didn't move > around initially. A change in the server code must have caused this. > Before, all monsters with "unagressive 1" or "friendly 1" didn't move. > Now it seems monsters with "unagressive 1" are still standing, but > those with "friendly 1" have started to hop around. > > I wonder if this affects more maps than just pupland. > Maybe it would be good to restore the old behaviour where friendly > guys don't move? > If not them I'm gonna glue the NPCs to their position with > stand_still flags. Looking through the CVS logs, this probably changed near the start of the year when I fixed up a lot of map tiling issues. As part of that, I cleaned up a lot of 'questionable' code. As part of that, it wouldn't surprise me if I cleaned that up. I imagine my thinking was probably that since there is already a flag which says don't move (stand_still), not a lot of sense for things to move around. But I'd probably need to look deeper into the code - I imagine friendly creatures should generally not move because there isn't an enemy around (if the maps do have enemies, then it makes perfect sense for them to move about). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 01:36:36 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Old Age In-Reply-To: <001201c3352c$10cfe8c0$0a02a8c0@kameria> References: <001201c3352c$10cfe8c0$0a02a8c0@kameria> Message-ID: <3EF159F4.2030706@sonic.net> I don't see any real issue with age. Presumably, age would only happen when players are actually logged in, and characters are effectively in suspended animation when logged out. It probably wouldn't be too hard to do. However, I'm not sure that time within the game itself runs at an accelerated enough rate for it to be meaningfull (I recall that at best, it runs 10 times faster). So if I had no other life what so ever and had the character logged in all the time, even after a year, it would have only aged 10 years - enough to perhaps have some detrimental effects. But this is an unlikely case - more likely, given the amount of time players are actually logged in, character age may progress and near the rate of real-life time passage. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 01:41:20 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Can't physically attack powerful monsters In-Reply-To: <3EED9F2B.8090204@gmx.at> References: <3EE9E699.70107@gmx.at> <3EED466C.9080709@sonic.net> <3EED9F2B.8090204@gmx.at> Message-ID: <3EF15B10.1050404@sonic.net> Bernhard Kuemel wrote: > Mark Wedel wrote: > >>> I can't claw/karate some monsters. >> >> It's really your attacktype. Best thing might be to see what the >> attacktypes of your characters are - it probably that they somehow >> differ. > > > Seems you are right. I appearently could boil it down to weapon class. > If I wear ring of strife/combat I can attack the dragons again while > none of the other features of these rings does it. > > Is there some gradual effect of wc? If so, I think this curve should be > stretched before the step where it stops physical attacks completely. Looking at the ring of strife and combat, they have other effects also, eg, dam (directory), and Str (wc and dam indirectly). wc is simply the chance you have of hitting the creature. It could certainly be that the bonus wc of the ring (as well as the Str which might give further adjustments) goes from 'being able to hit this monster 5 or 10% of the time' to 'not be able to hit this monster at all'. the wc roll is a d20 - its basically a wc against the ac of the creature. So each point of wc is basically 5% change. I thought there used to be code that a 20 would always hit, and a 1 always miss. But I may be confusing that with actual AD&D rules (which state that), and not any code actually in the game. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 01:53:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] server crash In-Reply-To: <3EE96859.5040600@sympatico.ca> References: <3EE96859.5040600@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3EF15DFE.3010600@sonic.net> Todd wrote: > as DM in Scorn I fired an arrow at dragon NPC (an unagressive npc but I > wanted to see how they moved) --- server crashed. > It only happens in Scorn (city map), not in say the tavern... I've put a change into CVS. Not positive if it will fix the problem, but npc_call_help was certainly broken in that it wouldn't do the right thing with respect to tiled maps. My guess is that your pet was near one of the seams of the tiled maps - this is why it would never happen in the tavern - no tiled maps there. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 02:10:44 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch for minor bug, and a minor bug In-Reply-To: <20030616104116.GA774@kevin> References: <20030616104116.GA774@kevin> Message-ID: <3EF161F4.80406@sonic.net> Kevin C. Rudat wrote: > As dungeonmaster, if you click on a shop tile, you'll find that shop-type > items are turning up *inside* the tile. Having spent all that time rolling > for treasure that no-one can get to seems a waste of memory. ;) Memory isn't wasted, as it would get freed when the map is saved out. It is a waste of memory while the game is running. I applied a fix - a little different than what you had - it just seems that an 'else' was missing. > Also, as dungeon master, if I 'create gem of flawless beauty', I get two or > three diamonds, but they have the face of the pretty emerald. 'dump'ing them > doesn't reveal anything else out of place. The problem here is in command_create. IT finds the right artifact list based on the type of item. It even finds the right artifact type (flawless beauty). what it is not doing is checking the 'allowed' flag. There are many 'flawless beauty' gem types, so it is matching the emerald, since that is the last one in the artifacts list. It just so happens that all the other values are the same between the diamond flawless beauty and emerald flawless beauty. The right fix is to insert a call to legal_artificat_combination() someplace in the code, and keep looping over if it doesn't match. I'll leave that to someone else. > There's a stranger bug involving diamonds of flawless beauty. When I open > the pouch described below, the bow of Auriga, waybread of Aelingas and > rubies come out okay, but the diamonds, emeralds and sapphires of flawless > beauty all use the diamond face and completely wrong. Not sure, but very possible that the python library object creation code has a similar bug to what I describe above, eg, is not doing close enough matching to the actual object type. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 02:24:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Client memory leak In-Reply-To: <3EE8D35F.7020809@gmx.at> References: <3EE8D35F.7020809@gmx.at> Message-ID: <3EF1652F.8000304@sonic.net> Bernhard Kuemel wrote: > Hi! > > The GTK Unix Client 1.5.0 (and probably others) have a memory leak. This > is how you can hopefully and simply reproduce it: > > 35 key Left R drop 1 large gold nugget;invoke alchemy;get nugget > 36 key Left A drop 10 small gold;invoke alchemy;get nugget > 38 key Down A get 1 gold nugget;use_skill alchemy > > Create some gold nuggets by casting alchemy to 2000 platinum coins. Pick > them up and turn them to small nuggets by repeating key binding nr. 35. > Put the unidentified small nuggets in a sack, bag, etc. With the open > bag call #38 repeatedly. This takes 1 unidentified nugget which stays > apart from the identified ones and keep staying apart even after > idendifying. The many nuggets in the inventory eat up memory. If you > 'drop all' the single nuggets get merged but memory won't be freed. The objects not merging is a server bug, but probably not a very big one. The many objects in the inventory do chew up memory, but so does having a large number of any objects, even if those objects are not mergable. The drop all should be investigated, but would also need further investigation if the server isn't telling the client something, or if the client just isn't doing something appropriate. > > For completeness ... With the bag closed #36 recycles the nuggets so > they can be identified again in order to gain mental level. Arguably, nuggets should perhaps be identified. OTOH, if the player wants to waste money (alchemy gets you less than you had before), this probably isn't really abusive. Player could just as well go and buy a bunch of scrolls, which I think also would get the player mental (literacy) experience. So I'm not that concerned about that. > > Below is a perl script that warns you when memory gets low. The usefulness of that script probably depends a lot on your OS. Linux is very agressive about keeping memory for buffers and what not, so there is never a large amount in the free pool. For systems more conservative about using memory for buffers, that may be more useful. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 03:24:18 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EF14D7D.701@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20030619082418.76660.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> They say that a picture is worth a thousand words... --- Todd wrote: > David Seikel wrote: > How big is this forest? If you are talking about the area between Scorn, > Britanny and Navar that is a *lot* of area... You are using the > bigworld maps right - that is the only mapset that weather works for as > far as I know. Yep big world. No were near that big a forest, I'm not greedy B-). Put it this way, the road from Scorn to Britanny passes through the western edge of the forest, the road from Scorn to Navar passes through the northern edge. The eastern edge is roughly where the dragons hang out in the mountains. The southern edge is not as far south as Britanny. Between the forest and Navar is a big mountain range. ...the pictures will be forthcoming on Saturday, maybe tomorrow if I can arrange it. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 03:33:58 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pupland bugs In-Reply-To: <3EF156DA.2030808@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20030619083358.78621.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Wedel wrote: > But I'd probably need to look deeper into the code - I imagine friendly > creatures should generally not move because there isn't an enemy around Friendly cleaning women should move around as they clean. In my castle map I have birds, chickens, cats, and dogs marked as friendly that I want to just wander around aimlessly. Some of the drunks from the pub should stagger around, while the rest stay in their seats. The two mud wrestlers should fight each other, but their audience shouldn't move. The dancers on stage should dance around. Finally, the patrons of the night club should move around randomly, unless they happen to get onto the dance floor where monster and player movers will make people dance in particular patterns. At the moment the cleaning women move around as they clean. Everything else either stands still or attacks the players. Oh, and the bouncers should stand still unless provoked B-). http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 03:38:41 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] server crash In-Reply-To: <3EF15DFE.3010600@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20030619083841.1157.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Wedel wrote: > I've put a change into CVS. Not positive if it will fix the problem, > but npc_call_help was certainly broken in that it wouldn't do the right > thing with respect to tiled maps. This might explain the server crashes I get on an underground tiled map I have. It is secret tunnel to the dragon lord city, it is tiled, and about half way you meet a bunch of dragons headed the other way. At that point a fight starts then the server crashes. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 07:07:24 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] elevations (was Re: more proposals) Message-ID: <14184.1056024444@www59.gmx.net> H. S. Teoh wrote: > > One thing, did you backfill in the elevation? There are a couple > > automated options to do this now and I think that until we can figure > > out a better way to do weather we should try to keep the elevation > > information as much as possible. > [snip] > > Ideally, this should be supported in the Java Editor. > Is AV working on this? :-) Hm, I believe it would be much better to deal with the problem on server side rather than doing something "hacky" in the editor. No matter what I do, preserving elevations is not going to work well. Imagine I replace a mountain range by a desert plane. When the elevations are backfilled they are dead wrong. Inserting random values doesn't seem much better in the long run, because in that case the values become totally meaningless. To do the right thing, elevations would need to be based not only on their surroundings (for smooth slopes) but also on the types of arches used (e.g. mountain or plains?). Then one has to decide if the overall tendency is upwards or downwards and eventually some adjacent elevations need to be adjusted. And even then, when all these factors are taken into account, the mapmaker won't know what the weather code will do to his maps because it's pretty much unpredictable. So just guess how happy the average mapmaker will be, spending his time with this. And the more elevations go out of whack, the worse it gets: When surrounded by "wrong" elevations, how can I insert "correct" ones without going out of synch with the larger picture? Honestly, I'm not sure what to do about it. Suggestions are welcome. AndreasV -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ Bitte l?cheln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage! _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 21:36:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Fw: [Crossfire-cvs] CVS commit: arch/ground Message-ID: <000801c336d4$c2a892a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> > Module Name: arch > Committed By: tchize > Date: Thu Jun 19 12:30:09 UTC 2003 > Log Message: > set the smoothelevel to some archetype. Added the smooth pictures > associated. > I am sure I'll love smoothing but it would be great to have had a brief note on this list explaining what smoothing is and why it should be done prior to doing it... For example does smothing impact the weather tiles, does it work with the classic images (which I spend a bit of time fixing for the weather code...)? I am not going to update my server just to find out what this is... I spent a good while (months) getting approval for making a simple global arch change the bigworld maps - In the end I compromised and it worked out - I am not saying things should be that hard to implement but geez - the very least that should be done is a message, a small waiting period for people to figure out if it impacts them or if it is even a good idea. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 21:49:40 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] elevations (was Re: more proposals) References: <14184.1056024444@www59.gmx.net> Message-ID: <000d01c336d6$99445780$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> > No matter what I do, preserving elevations is not going to work well. > Imagine I replace a mountain range by a desert plane. When the > elevations are backfilled they are dead wrong. > Inserting random values doesn't seem much better in the long run, > because in that case the values become totally meaningless. > Well the automated scripts aren't entirely useless, the perl script backfilles the old elevations and the python script assigns a value based on the arch (this is the reverse of how the map was created and although the script result is not a 'smooth'- it should be good enough for the weather code.) > To do the right thing, elevations would need to be based not only on > their surroundings (for smooth slopes) but also on the types of > arches used (e.g. mountain or plains?). Then one has to decide if > the overall tendency is upwards or downwards and eventually some > adjacent elevations need to be adjusted. Well that's not really how it currently works, it looked to me that it was a simple elevation:arches relationship. The map was generated like a fractal however which did 'slope' it initially. > And even then, when all these factors are taken into account, > the mapmaker won't know what the weather code will do to his maps > because it's pretty much unpredictable. > So just guess how happy the average mapmaker will be, spending his > time with this. > Yes , it shouldn't be a issue for map makers. > And the more elevations go out of whack, the worse it gets: > When surrounded by "wrong" elevations, how can I insert "correct" > ones without going out of synch with the larger picture? > > Honestly, I'm not sure what to do about it. > Suggestions are welcome. > Well I would say that we shouldn't keep the elevation numbers in the arches for one. If weather is smooth enough then I would say that the weather map code should just assign elevation values based on arch. OTHO these values could be plotted on a simpler initial data map to get a system more like you describe. For example say the weather map is generated as a skeleton of points from an average map elevation value (in the map header) then filled in with elevation values modified by the arches (you need to examine the arches anyway for water/humidity maps)... Once the map is generated initially - the elevation isn't used at all... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 12:28:25 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Old Age In-Reply-To: <3EF159F4.2030706@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 19-Jun-03 Mark Wedel wrote: > Presumably, age would only happen when players are actually logged in, and > characters are effectively in suspended animation when logged out. On the mud we used true age.. IE, included time spent sleeping away in the apartment. For one, it made more sense. "I was born 20 years ago but I'm 18 years old" :) Second.. you just wouldn't age fast enough to do anything interesting if you only aged playtime (as you noted).. and third.. tracking playtime would be slightly annoying to do. Not that it couldn't be done.. but you would probably have to tick a counter on all players, or track login/logout time. If you create a character.. and let it rot away in the apartment for all time.. well.. then you missed out on the best years of it's life. The other advantage, as a DM, was that players that had been around for a long long time, had a decided advantage. There was a decent reason to work on an old character, rather than making a pile of new ones every time you got frustrated. Of course, we had the ability to restart a player.. something missing in CF. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 12:34:35 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] elevations (was Re: more proposals) In-Reply-To: <14184.1056024444@www59.gmx.net> Message-ID: On 19-Jun-03 Andreas Vogl wrote: > No matter what I do, preserving elevations is not going to work well. > Imagine I replace a mountain range by a desert plane. When the > elevations are backfilled they are dead wrong. > Inserting random values doesn't seem much better in the long run, > because in that case the values become totally meaningless. True.. they won't be perfect.. but if you rip them out totally.. they will default to 0, which is probably worse.. because if you change one tile from a forest to a grassland, it will become elevation 0, while everything around it is not, basically making a pit right in the middle. Currently, we use scripts that just copy the old elevation to the new map. Thats really all thats being asked for here, well, that and the ability to edit the field. The current script copies old elevation over, if the new one is not set in the arch. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 12:38:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Old Age In-Reply-To: References: <3EF159F4.2030706@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20030619173847.GA15038@crystal> On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 10:28:25AM -0700, Tim Rightnour wrote: [snip] > On the mud we used true age.. IE, included time spent sleeping away in > the apartment. For one, it made more sense. "I was born 20 years ago > but I'm 18 years old" :) Second.. you just wouldn't age fast enough > to do anything interesting if you only aged playtime (as you noted).. > and third.. tracking playtime would be slightly annoying to do. Not > that it couldn't be done.. but you would probably have to tick a counter > on all players, or track login/logout time. > > If you create a character.. and let it rot away in the apartment for all > time.. well.. then you missed out on the best years of it's life. [snip] Well, I'm not sure that's such a good idea. Real life can interfere, and sometimes you just don't have the time to play CF. It can be very annoying that your character just turned 80 when you've hardly played him at all. T -- Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals could believe them. -- George Orwell _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 20 02:50:12 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] object lesson Message-ID: <001101c33700$94f02680$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Ok, I didn't think I was so dim witted but I guess i am... anyway I have a proposal: I would like to propose an arch object to be created and document the procedure since I think it would save people from going through what I am going through now (lots of looking through the code and documentation trying to understand seemingly simple stuff). I am assured it is trivial but that is once you know how it works right...I think it would be valuble anyway. SO I am going to put forth a detailed arch object requirement and ask for a step by step procedure on how one of you fellows would implement it (not actually implement it, but all the things you would do, even the little things that are obvious - except to non coders). I was going to try an Randomizer, but am told this is not simple as it would appear so I am now going to put forth another arch object. This is the object. It is called Timer (face is a little clock for map makers - but it will always be invisible like a creator...) It waits for another object to trigger it. It counts down a specified number of 'turns' It has a setting to be silent or to display a message It has a setting to display the message once or each interval (perhaps even, but only if it isn't hard to do, a message with a variable like a countdown...) It triggers something else It has a setting to reset or not it should function like this: player steps on a button or pulls a handle with connect '5' timer is set to accept connect '5' and to count down from 10 timer counts down from 10 displaying a message "tick..." timer trigers all the gates to close and a teleporter to teleport in a dragon to the room... Now the object isn't to actually build this so much as to teach other people how it should be built. Like: step 1. add an entry to the define.h : #DEFINE TIMER 125 step 2. add code to button.c ... (why - it's a button - what if it's was say a boat?) step 3. make entry in loader.c : (a case statement entry for say type #125?) step 4. create arch... other steps...? Anyone take me up on this? I seem to be missing some brains but I am sure I could do this myself if i could get a better grip on the way it works and perhaps with better documentation. If this object is too complex I maybe someone can suggest another one even simpler for this purpose. Perhaps we could even have a IRC session to step through it sometome. I think that other people would be interested in seeing how this works too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20030620/77408b3f/attachment.htm From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 20 02:49:44 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Old Age References: <3EF159F4.2030706@sonic.net> <20030619173847.GA15038@crystal> Message-ID: <000d01c33700$84f6cb80$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> > > If you create a character.. and let it rot away in the apartment for all > > time.. well.. then you missed out on the best years of it's life. > [snip] > > Well, I'm not sure that's such a good idea. Real life can interfere, and > sometimes you just don't have the time to play CF. It can be very annoying > that your character just turned 80 when you've hardly played him at all. > I think it should be real server time aging, not just logged in time - you don't track your character going to the can or sleeping - It can be assumed that he has a quiet life when not adventuring. Given the amount of time you would have to be away and the relative importance of a player vs reallife and the fact that you can also extend the lifespan of a beloved character with potions or whatever - I don't see this as a problem at all. It might give you incentive to do somehting to prolong his life. If your real life seriously intrudes for that long (60 years would be a good while - a few years, no?) I don't think your CF character is that high a priority anyway. If you can;t make it online once every few years to do a quest or quaff a potion....well it's not a real concern is it.. If the time frame is too slow to make aging worthwhile I would even suggest doubling or tripling the year value or something (every game 'year' goes up 2 or 3 'years' and ages the player 2 or 3 years...) This would accellerate the years without accellerating the minutes, hours or months/seasons... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 18:44:41 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <20030619082418.76660.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030619234441.74992.qmail@web21310.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Seikel wrote: > ...the pictures will be forthcoming on Saturday, maybe tomorrow if I can > arrange it. I had a look and I didn't see any pohibition against posting large images, so here is one. If I have committed a serious breach of netiquette, please forgive me, I have not been on this list for long. This image shows the big world with my large forest in it. I have added grid lines so that you can see the tile boundaries. The script I use converts certain maps to forest wholesale, so I had to choose the maps carefully. Although I ended up with a bigger forest than was needed, there are very few straight edges, and thus it looks natural. The two deep lakes in the north east of the forest are where I put my castle, so don't go and turn them into big swamps B-). Swamps are shallow things anyway, so either of the other two groups of lakes in the forest are more likely candidates. There are other groups of lakes not in the forest that may be better choices if we want to spread our interesting terrain around the map. Using the weather modifications I posted earlier, the lakes north of Navar get a lot of rain, it could be quite swampy there... http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: big_world.png Type: image/png Size: 736957 bytes Desc: big_world.png Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20030620/ac49b172/big_world.png From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 21:50:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <20030619234441.74992.qmail@web21310.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030619234441.74992.qmail@web21310.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EF2766B.7000409@sympatico.ca> David Seikel wrote: >I had a look and I didn't see any pohibition against posting large images, >so here is one. If I have committed a serious breach of netiquette, please >forgive me, I have not been on this list for long. > >This image shows the big world with my large forest in it. I have added >grid lines so that you can see the tile boundaries. The script I use >converts certain maps to forest wholesale, so I had to choose the maps >carefully. Although I ended up with a bigger forest than was needed, there >are very few straight edges, and thus it looks natural. > Well it's big, I wouldn't want to see two of them this large anyway. Did you take your version of the maps in the last six weeks after all the forest I added in the same area (but up and to the right...) and after the changes to Brest (didn't see that on there). I do think there should be a 'Great Forest' (names anyone?) to the east of Scorn but four more forests of this size and the world would be one big forest. For what it's worth, I personally don't mind it too much (I have to actually see the maps first to say if I like them or not but it looks nice from space), but it is really big. > >Using the weather modifications I posted earlier, the lakes north of Navar >get a lot of rain, it could be quite swampy there... > Did you change the elevation on the lakes to make them deep? I am starting to get cozy with the idea of having a single elevation value per map (determined by finding the current average?) and then generating the elevation of each tile on that map based on the arch and that map elevation value, to generate the weather maps - I think this would be better way to handle it than actually having the elevation values in the arches. It would allow for a deep lake in a high mountain area or high forests or deserts which is not the case currently. It wouldn't be hard to do (he said expecting to be corrected...) I think, just changes to the weather map genertation routine and the map headers, and it would free up the map maker form having to change the elevation to make the weather do the right thing... You worked with the weather code a bit, what do you think of that? _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 19 22:25:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EF2766B.7000409@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20030620032514.16320.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd wrote: > Well it's big, I wouldn't want to see two of them this large anyway. Where should I put the full set of maps and scripts and stuff on Saturday? > Did you take your version of the maps in the last six weeks after all > the forest I added in the same area (but up and to the right...) and > after the changes to Brest (didn't see that on there). All my work has been on the release version, orignally 1.4 and the small world, but I've been using 1.5 since the day it was released. > I do think there should be a 'Great Forest' (names anyone?) to the east > of Scorn but four more forests of this size and the world would be one big > forest. There is an entrance to the "Dark Forest" near the Scorn / Navar road in that area. Or we could name if after the owner of the castle I built there B-). My idea is to have him be a big influence on the surrounding area as a powerful prince. He has some history with the nearby dragons, the King of Scorn, Navar, and Lythander. I am going with the "Elves look after their local forest" mythos, and the prince is an Elf. So basically, my large forest is an elven forest, with the prince being the head elf. On the other hand, his influence may not cover the entire forest, just the bit a few tiles either side of the deep lakes. > Did you change the elevation on the lakes to make them deep? I am As stated before, my script only changed the arches used, all else remained untouched. > starting to get cozy with the idea of having a single elevation value > per map (determined by finding the current average?) and then generating > the elevation of each tile on that map based on the arch and that map > elevation value, to generate the weather maps - I think this would be > better way to handle it than actually having the elevation values in the > arches. It would allow for a deep lake in a high mountain area or high > forests or deserts which is not the case currently. It wouldn't be hard > to do (he said expecting to be corrected...) I think, just changes to > the weather map genertation routine and the map headers, and it would > free up the map maker form having to change the elevation to make the > weather do the right thing... You worked with the weather code a bit, > what do you think of that? Elevation is used in more than the weather calculations if I'm not mistaken. LOS is oftem blocked by higher ground. Movement rates should also be modified slightly when going up or down hill (I do a lot of bush walking), dunno if they actually are though. Map makers changing the elevation is a problem, just look at the elevation around the road between Scorn and and Santo Dominion. Looks like when the orignal big world was generated and the first towns and roads where grafted onto it, who ever did that road lost all the elevation info. On the other hand, this could be seen as a general problem. Sometime in the future some other information could be attached to the squares on maps and the editors will have to be updated to not drop this information. I would rather solve the general problem, but thats just the way I am B-). Local mana level / god influence are the sorts of things that would have the same problem. A good example would be my elven forest, Lythander would have a greater influence in the forest, his altars would work quicker / better, his worshippers would have a little bit more luck, orcs and goblins would be scared to enter, etc. However the Dark Forest is inside of my large forest, with the Dragon City just on the edge, so a per map figure would not work. During the next bit of discussion, keep in mind that this is all from memory, my source code is at home and I am not. I can check my facts on Saturday. Also, this is more a bunch of random thoughts than a fully thought out response. As for the weather code, elevation is used in two ways. The elevation map that is initailly generated is an average over the area covered by that particular weather pixel, but his data is then cached. During the weather loop, temperature at any particular point on a map is calculated based on average temperature for the weather pixel and elevation at that square. It is the initial calculations that actually fix the granularity of the weather system, the current code is described by the author as a nightmare, it is not flexible. Note, average water / land ratio is calculated during the average elevation calculation, which is why it takes twice as long B-). So average elevation for particular maps would greatly speed up the initial elevation map generation (which does take a very long time) since it spends most of that time calculating that figure anyway. Going the other way, from an average per map to specific elevation per square as you would like to do will probably take longer. Doing that on the fly would probably be too big a performance hit. Caching could be done, but note that the inital elevation map is not currently recalculated when the maps change. Now, I want to chage the granularity of the weather system, making it flexible enough to handle any granularity. I have probably mentioned that I am in the process of pulling the weather code out of the server and running it on a cluster. I will need greater granularity. I suspect that your proposed change would mostly move the problems around, all for the sake of not having to be more carefull with editor code. I say we should make a general fix for the general problem of extra per square info in maps. On the other hand, I like your idea if it is applied to the problem of generating all the elevation in the first place, but I have not looked at the current elevation generation code. I doubt if the world generation program will get much use though. Having said that, the weather code implies that the big world could be mapped to one side of a sphere, leaving the other hemisphere currently uncharted... http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 20 00:10:18 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] object lesson In-Reply-To: <001101c33700$94f02680$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <001101c33700$94f02680$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <3EF2973A.9020606@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: > Ok, I didn't think I was so dim witted but I guess i am... to stop nodding> anyway I have a proposal: > step 1. add an entry to the define.h : #DEFINE TIMER 125 correct. > step 2. add code to button.c ... (why - it's a button - what if it's was > say a boat?) button.c is basically what activates other objects when they are 'pushed'. The name isn't great for the file (connected.c would be more accurate), but this probably dates back to when the only connected objects were button. > step 3. make entry in loader.c : (a case statement entry for say type > #125?) nope - no change needed there. > step 4. create arch... > other steps...? Well, how you envision it, I'd say this: The code (or function) called in button.c would set up various values - it would set the speed of the object to non zero (depends how fast it should tick), reset the food/charges/whatever value for how long it ticks, and call update_ob_speed. Add code in time.c that looks for the TIMER object. This code will be called each time the timer gets an action (which is determined by its speed). that function should print something like 'tick' or whatever. Note, it would need to print it on the map or look for nearby players, as at this point, you no longer know who activated it. That function would decrease food/charges/whatever. When it reaches zero, it does it other action (pushes other connected objects, prints messages, whatever). It would also reset its speed to zero, and make the call to update_ob_speed. If the 'is_used_up' flag is used, then that would mean it could only get activated once. Easiest thing is for it to just remove itself - since it is invisible, no need to worry about showing a used up version (like altars). However, the alternative is to use some variable to denote the object has been used, and if so, the code in button.c doesn't do anything if that value is set. Most likely, the code in button.c shouldn't do anything if it is already ticking down, eg, a player shouldn't be able to reset that ticking bomb. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 20 00:57:21 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Fw: [Crossfire-cvs] CVS commit: arch/ground In-Reply-To: <000801c336d4$c2a892a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <000801c336d4$c2a892a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <3EF2A241.6020907@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: >>Module Name: arch >>Committed By: tchize >>Date: Thu Jun 19 12:30:09 UTC 2003 > > > >>Log Message: >>set the smoothelevel to some archetype. Added the smooth pictures >>associated. >> > > > I am sure I'll love smoothing but it would be great to have had a brief note > on this list explaining what smoothing is and why it should be done prior to > doing it... For example does smothing impact the weather tiles, does it > work with the classic images (which I spend a bit of time fixing for the > weather code...)? I am not going to update my server just to find out what > this is... I spent a good while (months) getting approval for making a > simple global arch change the bigworld maps - In the end I compromised and > it worked out - I am not saying things should be that hard to implement but > geez - the very least that should be done is a message, a small waiting > period for people to figure out if it impacts them or if it is even a good > idea. I agree. But also a lot because I think the implementation as checked in is wrong. Here is how I envisioned doing such a system. first, all the logic would be on the client - no server changes at all. The client would see the type of terrains the come in. This is simply done by looking at the image names (it does mean that cache mode has to be used, but that isn't a very big deal). So, for example, it'd get a tile like 'grass.111'. Client would recognize that as a tile it knows how to do transitions for. It would also know that its stacking would be low. Exactly when it figures this out is a matter of opinion - it could figure this out each time it goes to draw the map, or do it each time a space is updated. Doing it each time a space is updated is not ideal when a whole bunch of spaces are updated - simply because if one space changes terrain type, there is the potential that all 9 surrounding spaces sould need to have new transitions done. So re-examining the values after the complete map is sent is probably the easiest thing to do. The tiling would work basically the same way - some terrain would fall over onto other terrain. It see like 'grass next to road. I know grass flows onto other spaces, so let me draw the transitions'. Now where exactly these transitions images are stored is a matter of debate - the client could come with a copy of all of them, or they could be on the server with well established names. To simplify this, the client would probably have a file that lists the relations, eg: # tile name stacking level blending image name grass.111 5 grass_111_smoothed forest.111 10 forest_111_smoothed etc. The advantage of doing it in the client is simplicity (no server change), and efficiency (no extra bandwidth). It also, IMO, makes testing much easier if the images are also in the client - you could use blended tiles even on servers that don't support them. The only disadvantage I can think of is that you can only draw what the client knows about. Thus, transitions may suddenly show up. Eg, suppose you having something like: .. .. say that is the bottom right on your viewable area.. So it draws that as plains. Now you move to the right, so that is now: .F .F Since the client now sees the forest there, it can now do the transition of the forest onto the plains spaces is was not able to do before. IMO, this probably isn't that big a deal, but this could be more an issue for things like mountains and jungles which block line of sight - that effect could make drawing of this non ideal But I'm not even sure about that - really, one should only be able to see half way through tiles that block view, so not being able to see a possible transition on the backside of the tile probably isn't a big deal either. Anyway, this is my opinion on how the transitions should be done. I'm willing ot listen what advantages this other method has. IMO, it has several disadvantages, in terms of extra complications _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 20 22:18:33 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Fw: [Crossfire-cvs] CVS commit: arch/ground References: <000801c336d4$c2a892a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <3EF2A241.6020907@sonic.net> Message-ID: <000801c337a3$cd411fa0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> > Here is how I envisioned doing such a system. > > first, all the logic would be on the client - no server changes at all. > > The client would see the type of terrains the come in. This is simply done by > looking at the image names (it does mean that cache mode has to be used, but > that isn't a very big deal). I would think it should flagged in the arch instead of having the client look for an image that triggers the client to lay out the the border transitions, no? I think a setting like the one tchize put in (but how about somehting more concrete like 'transition_tiling' 1 or 0 rather than smoothing...) would be a good way to do it. This would let the map makers turn it of on a tile as well if desired (you want to make a nice garden or a lawn...). Also if it is looking for an arch, if the graphic file name changes in the future the client won't break the transitions. If an arch is made with transition tiling it would be assumed that the necessary tile(s) have been also committed. I think that there is a way to do this without too many tiles (big debate on CNN about this - check out http://abraxis.sytes.net/games/transition_example for one possible method of cutting down on tiles) it would be more flexable if the client could grab new transitions just like other graphics... This would be a little server change, (but not a big one?)- most of this should still be done in the client with the option to turn it off. I do wonder about how to weight the arches - Transition_tiling could use like 0-7 perhaps for seven possible landscape levels (need more? 0-16?) and an off setting. You could maybe even use the higher numbers for weather effects tiles... so they dont use up precious layers either (the way it's done now is not the best - not that there was an other option). That would be the best way however since the client wouldn't need any changes to incorporate new landscape tiling information. Unfortunatly I presume sending tile level information would require a change to the protocol and would not be backwards compatible with older clients. Otherwise any additions to the land would require the landscape ordering table stored in the client to be updated. I don't think that's so bad either really - it won't be happing every day... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 05:01:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Housing Message-ID: <001901c337dc$2470a240$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> After long thought on this and and discussions with a few people I have modified my thoughts on how to go about housing. I wanted to mention my further thoughts on this. I am not going to do it in Python. I would have loved to do this in Python since I had much of the code and stuff done and am much more comfortable with it (especially the template stuff), but in the end I wanted to have housing work with guild halls and thus it has to work as part of the core server, and bottom line is that the Plugin is optional and should remain optional for now... SO it will be done in c then. The model I want to follow is like this: Zoning and building houses. Map makers can layout (or DMs can create) a 'zoning permit' or 'Zone' on the ground tiles they will allow development on - this will basically just be an an empty arch with a picture that looks something like the goldfloor arch indicating that square is one 'zoned lot'. I haven't decided if there should or shouldn't be different zone types but I am leaving the door open for this. Players will purchase a housing blueprint representing a certain type of building (there will of course have to be an arch for each type of building availabe to be built containing the building information, the type of structure, the exit arch, a description, the price, the zone...) for an awful lot of money. Players will take the blueprint to the zoned tile they want to build on and activate it - it will turn into a building arch (unique) of the appropriate type, a set of maps will be created from templates in /var/crossfire/maps/buildings///. The templates function like the existing guild maps (or if you saw the house templates I posted in the past) - so that these are shared spaces with a proportion of unique floors and access controlled by a playerforce or a key (key is for letting your friends in or for your half-orc girlfirend...) and certain areas keyed to detect them. The template part of the maps is just assigning the proper values into the slaying fields and the main map exits when writing the map to the var folder. This will have to support multipart buildings (initially for guild houses, but also for castles and such, which will be frightfully expensive) so the code will check if there are sufficient free group of zoned tiles for the building. For cases like guilds the guildname will substitute for the player name. Now as far as i am told if I create a building arch (name bob's house, slaying /buildings/bob/house/house), set this building arch on the map and flag it unique it will stay there...written to unique-items. The whole thing hinges on being able to do this. So I hope it's true or that garbled will make something work for me here if it isn't. If the player quits or the guild goes defunct (more on this in the guild in the guild proposal) - the buildings under that player/guild name are removed and the map is removed from var/crossfire/maps and unique-items. (not the same - the house should survive the items in it)... The server admin can also remove either the maps in the var directory by player name when deleting inactive characters and/or the entries in the unique_items directory when necessary (thinking of a script or DM command for this...) Also I think that only one of each type or a max number of buildings (or both?, based on building?) can be assigned to control the number of buildings a player or guild can own (likely checking the subfolders...) There should be a way for a player to destroy a building they own as well, that should be simple enough using the same techniques as used to clean up defunct buildings... This is both a lot simpler method and more automated than what I initially had working on my server using the Python plugin (buying and selling houses - creating the maps from the templates but only manual exit arch placement...) but isn't as fragile or as much of a pain. I know there was a suggestion to allow players to build houses on any open land (within reason - using some type of checking routine) but the two main problems I see with that are updating maps (what if someone builds a mountain range where your house is? - houses will be different on any given server) and controlling the litter (players building all over the freaking place - outside good dungeons, in front of someone elses front door, and in the way of other buildings) - it was too much to worry about. I think the Zoning is a good way to make it easy to add housing while not causing too many problems. As for zone types, I thought of making a simple list of different zones to have in the zone object (have to make it an simple object then but that might be good anyway for future development - say a parent country field for event/tax/statistics purposes... or commercial/residential for guilds vs homes) which the blueprint object would check for - this would allow you to build say caves only in the mountains or perhaps terrain appropriate house arches like tents in the desert or city appropriate building styles. That's what I am thinking of doing anyway. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20030621/381383c7/attachment.htm From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 20 23:24:21 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Fw: [Crossfire-cvs] CVS commit: arch/ground In-Reply-To: <000801c337a3$cd411fa0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <000801c336d4$c2a892a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <3EF2A241.6020907@sonic.net> <000801c337a3$cd411fa0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <3EF3DDF5.5010006@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: >> Here is how I envisioned doing such a system. >> >>first, all the logic would be on the client - no server changes at all. >> >>The client would see the type of terrains the come in. This is simply > > done by > >>looking at the image names (it does mean that cache mode has to be used, > > but > >>that isn't a very big deal). > > > I would think it should flagged in the arch instead of having the client > look for an image that triggers the client to lay out the the border > transitions, no? I think a setting like the one tchize put in (but how > about somehting more concrete like 'transition_tiling' 1 or 0 rather than > smoothing...) would be a good way to do it. This would let the map makers > turn it of on a tile as well if desired (you want to make a nice garden or a > lawn...). Also if it is looking for an arch, if the graphic file name > changes in the future the client won't break the transitions. Well, having it in the arch does allow it to be turned on and off easily. There is the added complication that that data now needs to be sent to the client. The protocol document hasn't been updated yet (which, IMO, is 100% wrong - before any code is being put in that will effect client server communication, the protocol file should be updated and those proposed changes sent to the mailing list). I'm not too concerned about matching with image names for two reasons: 1) the names of images very seldom, if ever change. 2) this transition stuff as one of the most optional features in the game, eg, lacking proper transitions will not effect play at all. > > If an arch is made with transition tiling it would be assumed that the > necessary tile(s) have been also committed. I think that there is a way to > do this without too many tiles (big debate on CNN about this - check out > http://abraxis.sytes.net/games/transition_example for one possible method > of cutting down on tiles) it would be more flexable if the client could grab > new transitions just like other graphics... You could certainly have the transition tiles in CVS, with a well established naming convention. And the client could request them as it needs them (it would be difficult for the server to push them, because for the server to push them, it would then need to figure out what the transitions would look like). But once again, this probably isn't a very big issue - if the client is slightly delayed in getting its transition tile, no great loss. The only issue here is if you had multiple image names use the same transition. I don't know how likely that would be. but if you say wanted brush to also use the grass transition, you then need some logic someplace to denote that, and I'm not sure how one would easily do that without adding yet more complication. As for tile format, I really think the layout on http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article934.asp is the way to go. It is more complicated, but is the complete approach - you'd never get a case of 'I just can't quite make this L transition look like it should' that you'd get with your outside drawing mechanism. Also, while that page shows 32 tiles, the amount of drawing is actually much less. The bottom 16 tiles (which are the 4 corners), are really just 4 tiles, with just different bits of the corners. The top 16 tiles can only marginally be reduced to 13 tiles, but of those, I'd imagine the drawing could be reduce a whole bunch (eg, a L could take a | and _, merge them together, and do some cleanup). OTOH, for the 4 L rotations and the 4 U rotations, it may be easier to hand draw those. But here's the thing. Even if those 16 images are just cut/paste jobs of your image, that is basically the same amount of work, but it allows for improved images down the road. I don't think anyone is saying that all transition images have to be ideal right now, nor that all transitions images need to be put in over night. If there is one thing I've learned in crossfire, one should try to keep things flexible and not choose something that may be easy to do now but may need to get redone in the future. I will note, however, that for the transitions, we could just have a single 8x4 tile image (256 x 128 pixels) in cvs that contains all the transitions in a well established layout, and the client copies from the section it needs. This is certainly more efficient than having 32 individual tiles, because the pallette/color information is going to be highly redundant for one set of transition images, and you reduce the image overhead accordingly. And doing this also means the number of additional images goes up very little. > I do wonder about how to weight the arches - Transition_tiling could use > like 0-7 perhaps for seven possible landscape levels (need more? 0-16?) and > an off setting. You could maybe even use the higher numbers for weather > effects tiles... so they dont use up precious layers either (the way it's > done now is not the best - not that there was an other option). That would > be the best way however since the client wouldn't need any changes to > incorporate new landscape tiling information. Unfortunatly I presume > sending tile level information would require a change to the protocol and > would not be backwards compatible with older clients. Otherwise any > additions to the land would require the landscape ordering table stored in > the client to be updated. I don't think that's so bad either really - it > won't be happing every day... There are many different ways. There is already a 'visibility' value in the archetype. Using this to denote mountain > forest > grass > water would be fine. At some level, it'd be nice to offload as much of the work to the client as possible. This just means the server runs better - both in terms of the amount of cpu it needs, and bandwidth. If we want the server to send more than 3 faces per space, protocol refinement would be needed. However, IMO, the right way to do this is to add something like a 'map2' protocol command which does this. New client would use this one, old clients use the map1(a) protocol commands. The old clients would not see everything the new ones do, but not a really big deal (probably). If having more than 3 layers is important, please start that discussion. It is certainly doable, but definately requires some discussion and shouldn't be something just quickly tossed in. I haven't looked closely at the code (and the protocol doc doesn't have this information), but it looks like the code tchize put in sends supplemental map commands, which IMO is also a bad idea - this could get really confusing really quickly. If the data being sent is related to map logic, it should be included in a map command. If that means writing a new map2 protocol command, that is what should be done and not supplemental protocol commands. That map command may send varying amount of data depending on if the client wants it or not - look at the darkness code for an example of that right now - if the client doesn't want, we just don't send it in the map1 command, but the protocol is there to send it. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 00:02:42 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Housing In-Reply-To: <001901c337dc$2470a240$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <001901c337dc$2470a240$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <3EF3E6F2.5070703@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: > > Players will purchase a housing blueprint representing a certain type of > building (there will of course have to be an arch for each type of > building availabe to be built containing the building information, the > type of structure, the exit arch, a description, the price, the zone...) > for an awful lot of money. Players will take the blueprint to the zoned > tile they want to build on and activate it - it will turn into a > building arch (unique) of the appropriate type, a set of maps will be > created from templates in > /var/crossfire/maps/buildings///. If you end up using a non standard map path, more work would need to be done. The current code has specific rules for how it determines the path to map files - I'll comment more on that below. > > Now as far as i am told if I create a building arch (name bob's house, > slaying /buildings/bob/house/house), set this building arch on the map > and flag it unique it will stay there...written to unique-items. The > whole thing hinges on being able to do this. So I hope it's true or that > garbled will make something work for me here if it isn't. if an exit to a map is marked as unique, that creates a _per player_ unique map. What does that mean? It means that the player the created the building can enter and leave it just fine. But no one else could. The permanent apartments in scorn are an example of this. Each player has his own unique instance. If a player quits the game (eg, retires character), the unique maps he owns are removed. This works for those because the logic is like this: 1) See if we have a copy of that map in the players save directory, if so, use it. 2) IF not, look at the exit path, and use that as the template. Now the way you describe it, you'd either get that behavior above (where once a deed is bought, everyone has a building there), or the behaviour where the player who bought it can enter, but no one else could (because the name is mangled so that it can't do #2 above). Now the way the existing guild houses work is all the spaces within the guild have unique set. This causes those maps to be available to everyone, yet the objects persist. I think any way you go, some updated logic to the exit code would be needed - simply because the you couldn't really use that same unique item trick - that actually causes objects to be merged from the original map to those that are on the space. You can't really do this, because the of naming issues. Eg, if your template is 'castle', then once someone has bought that, the naming convention would be such that anyone else that bought a castle would get similiar name mangling. That said, my suggestions: 1) Find some flag or something in the exit object to denote this is a unique map, but not a per player unique map. One could perhaps do something like store the player name in the exit path (eg, slaying /buildings/mark/castle). 2) If those maps are supposed to disappear when a player quits/retires, it should be stored in the players save directory, instead of creating yet another directory that is tied to the player name. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 01:48:23 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Fw: [Crossfire-cvs] CVS commit: arch/ground In-Reply-To: <3EF3DDF5.5010006@sonic.net> References: <000801c336d4$c2a892a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <3EF2A241.6020907@sonic.net> <000801c337a3$cd411fa0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <3EF3DDF5.5010006@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3EF3FFB7.5060706@sympatico.ca> Mark said: > As for tile format, I really think the layout on > http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article934.asp is the way to > go. Ok I can see that this is the general consensus it's not a big issue if this is the way it's done - it was more making the point really. Doing the weather taught me how many tiles you have to update for simple landscape changes. As you say thought most of these are flips or chops, not monalisas. >> I do wonder about how to weight the arches - Transition_tiling could use >> like 0-7 perhaps for seven possible landscape levels (need more? >> 0-16?) and >> an off setting. [...] > > There are many different ways. > > There is already a 'visibility' value in the archetype. Using this to > denote mountain > forest > grass > water would be fine. and this wouldn't interfere with visibility? > If we want the server to send more than 3 faces per space, protocol > refinement would be needed. > > However, IMO, the right way to do this is to add something like a > 'map2' protocol command which does this. New client would use this > one, old clients use the map1(a) protocol commands. The old clients > would not see everything the new ones do, but not a really big deal > (probably). > > If having more than 3 layers is important, please start that > discussion. It is certainly doable, but definately requires some > discussion and shouldn't be something just quickly tossed in. I wouldnt want to increase the number of faces sent and increase the bandwith, however there are some advantages to having the client do some weighting/layering on it's own from with the face information provided. Perhaps I am not understanding the fundimentals here but I suggested something like a 0-16 value so you can have the client lay out other things than just landscape transitions (probably not more than 6 or 7 levels?) you could have the client use the lower levels to merge three or four images into one ground layer or use the higher levels to add things over the tile (like large creature overlapping or magical semitransparent glows or rains and fog and such masks. If you want the client to do transition layering of tiles you will need some of these such as the first 6 or 7 anyway. Something like: 0 - no transition - default for most objects 1 - water tiles 2 - sand, swamp, marsh, road 3 - grass, brush, desert 4 - trees, dunes 5 - hills, treed hills, steppes 6 - mountains 7 - high mountains (mountain2) 8 - very high mountains (mountian4) 9 - highest mountains (moutnain5) 10 - objects in this tile 11 - player level (players overlap most things) 12 - specific object auras (red glows and such, maybe some of the other less tangible spell effects...) 13 - image overlap from tile y+1 (large image overlapping so your halfling can stand behind a tree to take a leak and such) 14 - auras for overlapping monsters and area effects 15 - snow and rain animations 16 - ? > > At some level, it'd be nice to offload as much of the work to the > client as possible. This just means the server runs better - both in > terms of the amount of cpu it needs, and bandwidth. Indeed the client should handle all of this jiggery. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 02:50:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Ice Castle in the Large Forest. In-Reply-To: <20030619082418.76660.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030621075031.19975.qmail@web21307.mail.yahoo.com> No one told me where I should put this, and I did ask. So here it is. At least it is much smaller than the picture I posted earlier B-). This is my Ice Castle stuff, incorporating my Large Forest script and variations on the Post Office scripts, basically all the stuff I've been talking about recently. Most of this is maps, but it all ties together. The maps work better if you have applied the patches I posted earlier. forest.pl is the script that creates the large forest from the Big World maps from the 1.5 release. python/PO is my take on the standard IPO scripts. python/bank are actually scripts for the PO clerk and a receptionist, both of whom provide similar services. python/club and the arch are used for the night club. 1.4/ and TEMP/ are just some temporary stuff for reference. Hope this doesn't annoy the list gods B-). http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: onefang.tar.bz2 Type: application/x-bzip2 Size: 408457 bytes Desc: onefang.tar.bz2 Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20030621/d839db8d/onefang.tar.bin From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 03:13:37 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Fw: [Crossfire-cvs] CVS commit: arch/ground In-Reply-To: <3EF3FFB7.5060706@sympatico.ca> References: <000801c336d4$c2a892a0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <3EF2A241.6020907@sonic.net> <000801c337a3$cd411fa0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <3EF3DDF5.5010006@sonic.net> <3EF3FFB7.5060706@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3EF413B1.6040207@sonic.net> Todd wrote: >> >> There is already a 'visibility' value in the archetype. Using this to >> denote mountain > forest > grass > water would be fine. > > > and this wouldn't interfere with visibility? visibility in the arch is a 'hint' on which objects are more noticable than others. Given that you can only display 3 objects on a space, suppose you have the case of 'ground, tower, dagger'. That's easy - draw all three. But now move an arrow on that space. Which of the tower, dagger, and arrow don't we draw? Visibility field basically determines that. Generally, bigger things have higher visibility - if you can only see limited things, your going to see the big things. I think this works out just fine with the terrain stuff - I can't think of any cases where you have forest on top of grass and have questions of which you can see (since the forest will clobber the grass). But if there was, the visiblity works out - the forest should be more noticable than the grass it sits on. > I wouldnt want to increase the number of faces sent and increase the > bandwith, however there are some advantages to having the client do some > weighting/layering on it's own from with the face information provided. > Perhaps I am not understanding the fundimentals here but I suggested > something like a 0-16 value so you can have the client lay out other > things than just landscape transitions (probably not more than 6 or 7 > levels?) you could have the client use the lower levels to merge three > or four images into one ground layer or use the higher levels to add > things over the tile (like large creature overlapping or magical > semitransparent glows or rains and fog and such masks. If you want the > client to do transition layering of tiles you will need some of these > such as the first 6 or 7 anyway. Ok. That is a completely different point, and does exist to some extent - the handling of big images goes on 'parallel' layers. Thus, if say you have a 4x4 giant, only the base of the giant (lower right corner) counts as a layer that is used up on the client side of things. Thus, the other three spaces can have 3 objects in addition to the giant, because the giant (when one big image) doesn't use the same layer as the stuff sent by the server. Of course, the most flexibly way woudl be to allow the client to say how many layers it wants. Eg, I want up to 7 layers of information, or I only want 3, or I want 4, or whatever. However, that does make things complicated - at minimum, the server must be able to support up to some number of layers, so that increases its complication of what to put on each layer. But you also get trickier issue - suppose there actually is 7 layers of information - you could have something like 'floor, treasure, dagger, gold, player, arrow, arrow', with the arrows moving in different directions, and hence different images. If the client only wanted say 3 layers, taking the top two layers (arrows) and bottom layer (floor) is obviously not the right approach - you want to really take an arrow, the player, and the floor. But how to really figure that out for all these different possiblities would be a pain. As a note, when I first started playing with putting xpm's into crossfire, I did experiment with drawing every object on the space. Other than major performance problems (granted, this was a long time back), at some point, you really don't gain anything. A pile of stuff in a shop looks like one item on top of a pile that isn't really distinguishable. > > Something like: > > 0 - no transition - default for most objects > 1 - water tiles > 2 - sand, swamp, marsh, road > 3 - grass, brush, desert > 4 - trees, dunes > 5 - hills, treed hills, steppes > 6 - mountains > 7 - high mountains (mountain2) > 8 - very high mountains (mountian4) > 9 - highest mountains (moutnain5) > 10 - objects in this tile > 11 - player level (players overlap most things) > 12 - specific object auras (red glows and such, maybe some of the other > less tangible spell effects...) > 13 - image overlap from tile y+1 (large image overlapping so your > halfling can stand behind a tree to take a leak and such) > 14 - auras for overlapping monsters and area effects > 15 - snow and rain animations > 16 - ? I guess I'm sort of missing what you are saying here, and where those values come from (are these something the server communicates to the client?) Is it basically the client will still only send a max of 3 images/space, but might say 'this is layer 12, and this one is layer 4, and this one is layer 0'? I'd have to think about what actual effect that would have. The only thing I could really think of is this could be useful for big (multipart) images to make figuring out how they stack with others easier. There is a bit of voodoo in the way it is right now. At some point, the map protocol probably needs to be extended to deal with lighting in an intelligent way. Right now, we basically send the darkness for each space (that is visible). It'd make much more sense for the server to say 'this map has an ambiant darkness of x'. And for spaces that are visible to player and that have light sources, the server would send along like 'x,y has a glow of 3, a,b has a glow of 4'. And now the client can be much more clever about how it does the lighting. One could even extend that slightly - 'this space has a glow of 4, and it is red', or 'this space has a glow of 2, and it is blue'. As part of that ambiant light information, the server could also send along other global map information, eg, 'it is raining' or 'it is snowing', and the client could then draw snow/rain/whatever graphics all over the map. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 04:23:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Ice Castle in the Large Forest. References: <20030621075031.19975.qmail@web21307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19307.1056187436@www67.gmx.net> David Seikel wrote: > [...] > This is my Ice Castle stuff, incorporating my Large Forest script > and variations on the Post Office scripts, basically all the stuff > I've been talking about recently. Most of this is maps, but it all > ties together. The maps work better if you have applied the patches > I posted earlier. I took a first glance at your maps, and the castle maps look quite nice. Some comments from what I saw: I noticed there is a large room in (IceCastleB) with all kinds of monsters in it, especially high level ones, and masses of them. This is something I tend to dislike. The old dragonhanger maps were like that and we had so much trouble with them that they were removed some day. The problem is that such masses of high level monsters tend to be abusive. Players can get millions of exp just for sitting in one room using mass-killing-spells like diseases or the like. Besides, it's so pointless when there are just all monsters lined up in cages. Wouldn't it be nice to have a little bit more "role play feeling" when engaging high level monsters, or special/rare creatures? Finally, some monsters really are quest-specific, like the evil masters, dave and the mudman. I would prefer if they were not used in other maps, please at least change the name if you do. I've also seen a big library with nearly all kinds of spellbooks in it. Isn't this kind of making it too easy to find spells? Please at least take out the special spells. I noticed some of them are removed (a.k.a. "censored"), but I found shockwave for example and color spray which are quest rewards in other places. > forest.pl is the script that creates the large forest from the Big World > maps from the 1.5 release. Your forest is nice, I looked at the image you posted earlier. Personally I found it is really a huge forest, but okay why not. Unfortunately there were recent changes in the area where you put it: Brest got a mountain ring, there is a new direct road to lake country and mountain tops generally changed from wasteland to the white moutains. Maybe you can check out latest cvs and try merging the forest in there without discarding the new things. Generally it's a good idea to always start with latest CVS when modifying any existing maps. In the end, they have to fit with latest CVS anyways in order to be put in - so better to be compatible right from the start. ;-) AndreasV -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ Bitte l?cheln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage! _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 05:49:07 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Ice Castle in the Large Forest. In-Reply-To: <19307.1056187436@www67.gmx.net> Message-ID: <20030621104907.42817.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Vogl wrote: > David Seikel wrote: > I took a first glance at your maps, and the castle maps look quite nice. Thanks. It looked much nicer with 1.4 ice cubes. > I noticed there is a large room in (IceCastleB) with all kinds of > monsters in it, especially high level ones, and masses of them. > The problem is that such masses of high level monsters tend to be > abusive. Players can get millions of exp just for sitting in one room > using mass-killing-spells like diseases or the like. > Besides, it's so pointless when there are just all monsters lined > up in cages. Wouldn't it be nice to have a little bit more "role play > feeling" when engaging high level monsters, or special/rare creatures? It's an experiment in arena design, the idea is that you open the first gate on individual cages to select the monsters to fight, then you dump someone into the arena, and close the gate behind them. This opens the second gate and releases the monsters. Most of the monsters are far enough away from the entrance that by the time the combatant gets there, they are out of their cage. Note that there is also a prison cell in there, this is for DM's to imprison people, setup an appropriate set of monsters, and release the prisoner. If they survive, they are set free. This is where we can add role playing to it. The arena is not important in the overall scheme of things, something else could go in there. Certainly the mix of monsters is not important. I like the idea of adjustable level of difficulty by opening the right combintaion of gates. I also like the idea of the dual level nature of the gates to release the carefully selected bunch of monsters all at once. I don't like the big empty space though, obstacles and hiding places should be added. > Finally, some monsters really are quest-specific, like the evil masters, > dave and the mudman. I would prefer if they were not used in other > maps, please at least change the name if you do. As it was an experiment, I dumped most monsters in there so I could see how it plays. I actually have no idea which quests the Dave and Evil Masters come from, I haven't been on those quests yet. I have no objection to removing them. The Daves are way to hard to kill in a big open area like an arena, so other than the fact that they have the same name as me, I won't miss them B-). The Evil Masters are also too hard to kill, I will miss them even less. > I've also seen a big library with nearly all kinds of spellbooks > in it. Isn't this kind of making it too easy to find spells? > Please at least take out the special spells. > I noticed some of them are removed (a.k.a. "censored"), > but I found shockwave for example and color spray which are > quest rewards in other places. Again, I don't know all the quests, I just started with all of the spells, then censored those that I knew should be censored. Looks like I should censor some more, please send me a list. The big library is only openable by the Prince, and he only does that as a reward. So far, I haven't come up with a quest worthy of the reward, so it is basically his own personal library. This is similar to the big secret ring room in Scorn, where only the DM can get in. As I mentioned in the README, the castle is designed the way the Prince would design it. He wants a big library and a big arena, and all the other fun stuff. Game balance will have to adjust his design though B-). > Your forest is nice, I looked at the image you posted earlier. > Personally I found it is really a huge forest, but okay why not. It was that huge just to make the script produce less straight edges. It isn't a smart script. Only the top third around the castle is actually needed, the rest can go. However... > Unfortunately there were recent changes in the area where you > put it: Brest got a mountain ring, there is a new direct road > to lake country and mountain tops generally changed from wasteland > to the white moutains. It isn't really important where my forset goes, or how big it is, the current location and size was mostly chosen for ease of writing the conversion script. I do want the Ant Farm to link up with the Dragon City, and be part of the UnderWorld, so the location of the castle can't be too far from the Dragons. The castle should be somewhere deep inside the largest forest (elves like forests). All else is subject to change, although it is a bitch to get all the ground floor exits to link right. Obviously, since I never got around to it, the scenic views are also a pain to change. They are currently small world scenic views. Guess I won't update them yet. > Generally it's a good idea to always start with latest CVS when > modifying any existing maps. In the end, they have to fit with > latest CVS anyways in order to be put in - so better to be compatible > right from the start. ;-) I started the large forest when 1.5 was released. This was the first release with the Big World, although it was mentioned in the docs earlier. Earlier I was working on small world with 1.4, and as you can see in the maps with scenic views, I extended the forest a little bit there. As far as I know, I was working on the latest version when I started. I haven't actually touched it for quite a while, concentrating on my weather mods. I haven't been involved in Crossfire development for long at all, and only recently joined this mailing list, so I have no idea what is going on. On top of that, I don't actually have an Internet connection at home, and severe restrictions on my access elsewhere. Staying current with CVS would be a pain. On the other hand, I would probably make the effort if I got good reviews of my work so far. Response so far has been good, you lot may encourage me to work more on this B-). http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 06:15:38 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <001001c3360d$411e85e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <20030621111538.76807.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> Now that I have the chance, lets deal with my Python problems. Note, I really know very little about Python programming. I am a zen programmer though, which is how I managed to modify the IPO scripts and write my night club script. My main reason for changing the IPO scripts is that the shelve thingy used in the original wouldn't work here. I had a quick look, and the shelve stuff looked fine to me. However, I reasoned to myself, the rest of Crossfire is based on text files, why use a DB for IPO? I've unpacked a fresh copy of crossfire 1.5 server from the release tarball. I've tracked down the /usrlocal/ problem you mentioned and fixed it. Relevant part of ./configure output - checking Python.h usability... no checking Python.h presence... no checking for Python.h... no checking /usr/include/python/Python.h usability... yes checking /usr/include/python/Python.h presence... yes checking for /usr/include/python/Python.h... yes checking for PyArg_ParseTuple in -lpython... no checking for PyArg_ParseTuple in -lpython2.2... no checking for PyArg_ParseTuple in -lpython2.1... no checking for PyArg_ParseTuple in -lpython2.0... no checking For python lib in various places... configure: creating ./config.status In the above, the last "checking For..." and the "configure: creating..." are on the same line, it just got wrapped by my mail system, and might get wrapped more by yours. Looks like it found Python, but didn't like what it found. The python plugin was not compiled during the subsequant make. --- Todd Mitchell wrote: > /usr/local) but this is fixed in CVS. WHere does SuSe put python.h - > maybe if it is different you can let us know and we can update the > configure script to detect it (well maybe not me unless it is a simple > hack)... Configure scripts scare me as well, and I'm a zen programmer B-). /usr/include/python2.2/Python.h The /usr/include/python/ found above is a link. Same deal with /usr/lib/python/, it's a link to /usr/lib/python2.2/ > do you have python development installed? If it is really different > location or version of python there is also a --with prefix to point to > your Python.h '--with-includes=I files> Both python and python-devel packages are installed from the SuSE 8.2 install media, version 2.2.2 for both. I just grabbed the latest SuSE updates, no update for those packages. Everything appears to be in the correct place, but this and the shelve problem from SuSE 8.0 (after I got it to compile) seem to point to some sort of incompatability. SuSE apply about 9K of patches to produce their version of Python. In case you are wondering, a zen programmer tries to clear his mind of all actual knowledge of any particular programming language, and tackles programming from first principles. Thus he can program in any language, with no knowledge of the language required. I've been doing this for decades. On the other hand, I've done many years of Java and C programming, so I do know a few things about them B-). Go on, ask me how many languages I have programmed in... http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 11:38:13 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <20030620032514.16320.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030620032514.16320.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EF489F5.10900@sympatico.ca> A couple points - I'l drop a seperate note about the python and the bank code. David Seikel wrote: >All my work has been on the release version, orignally 1.4 and the small >world, but I've been using 1.5 since the day it was released. > You might want to update your copy of the maps - there were some large scale changes in the areas near and around this change - specifically changes surrounding Brest and substantial foresting of the areas already. Because of this I would suggest the forest be shrunk a bit or if you have a script to run it with the newer maps in mind. It looked like some of the areas you changed might overlap the mountains around Brest...that would be bad. >>starting to get cozy with the idea of having a single elevation value >>per map (determined by finding the current average?) and then generating The elevation >>the elevation of each tile on that map based on the arch and that map >>elevation value, to generate the weather maps - I think this would be >>better way to handle it than actually having the elevation values in the >>arches. It would allow for a deep lake in a high mountain area or high >>forests or deserts which is not the case currently. It wouldn't be hard >>to do (he said expecting to be corrected...) I think, just changes to >>the weather map genertation routine and the map headers, and it would >>free up the map maker form having to change the elevation to make the >>weather do the right thing... You worked with the weather code a bit, >>what do you think of that? >> >> > >Elevation is used in more than the weather calculations if I'm not >mistaken. LOS is oftem blocked by higher ground. Movement rates should >also be modified slightly when going up or down hill (I do a lot of bush >walking), dunno if they actually are though. > As far as I know elevation isn't used at all after the weather maps are generated. >Map makers changing the elevation is a problem, just look at the elevation >around the road between Scorn and and Santo Dominion. Looks like when the >orignal big world was generated and the first towns and roads where grafted >onto it, who ever did that road lost all the elevation info. > I expanded the roads, but at that time there was no attempt (by anyone) to maintain the elevation information at all - it was not used for anything. I have since spend a bit of effort backfilling or otherwise adding in or maintaining in elevation for the sake of the weather code - this is one reason I think that removing the elevation values from the individual arches should be done. I don;t think it is worth fixing the elevation on the roads, but I am fighting an inevitably loosing battle to try to maintain the elevation for larger chunks of the maps to minimize the impact on the weather - the roads should just be a blip anyway, the cities are a bigger issue. >On the other hand, this could be seen as a general problem. Sometime in >the future some other information could be attached to the squares on maps >and the editors will have to be updated to not drop this information. I >would rather solve the general problem, but thats just the way I am B-). > This happens constantly yes, but only if there isn't better way as I think there is in this case. I think that changing the weather code would solve the general problem correctly. If the elevations are retained as is then the elevation value looses its meaning when changes are made to the maps (say a mountain is replaced by a lake - the lake would be lower then the surrounding ground...). If you want the elevation to reflect your map changes in a meaningful way, you have to hand edit or run a script - both ways will make the landscape either too choppy (random elevation assignment) or too flat (copying the same value to all the changed arches) or not reflecting of the objects on the map, or most likely case since it isnt' used by anything except intitial weather map generation it just won't get done and you will have bug holes in the map when people choose to ignore doing it. I don't think there is a reasonable way to script *meaningful* elevation values on a per tile or even a per map basis in the editor. > >Local mana level / god influence are the sorts of things that would have >the same problem. A good example would be my elven forest, Lythander would >have a greater influence in the forest, his altars would work quicker / >better, his worshippers would have a little bit more luck, orcs and goblins >would be scared to enter, etc. However the Dark Forest is inside of my >large forest, with the Dragon City just on the edge, so a per map figure >would not work. > I don't suggest just a per map figure, I suggested storing the map average in the map header then determining the elevation of each tile by the arch when creating the elevation/humidity map. You would still end up with a value for each tile. but you would not have to maintain the elevations (no matter how careful you are, if you have the elevation value in the tiles the values will will become randomized and distorted over time instead of maintaining a sloped land type shape.) I think of it like a wire frame of the world map with a point plotted for each individual map - then you can fill in based on the arches. Mountains are locally higher than the map average based on the type of mountain (high, very high...), lakes relativly lower based on the type (shallow, deep...) - stuff like swamps and hills fall in between... I think this would be more natural anyway (you can get a forest or a lake at 15000 ft this way...). It would also work for any world map you throw at it (not bigworld but if someone did a unique continent) even if it was not generated by a fratcal type generation (handbuilt maps). All you need do is put in the average map elevation values you want on each map. These are my thoughts anyway... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 10:56:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EF489F5.10900@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 21-Jun-03 Todd wrote: > As far as I know elevation isn't used at all after the weather maps are > generated. Elevation is used to determine per square temperature. This means if you have a road with elevation 0 going through a mountain of elevation 10k, it may not snow on the road, but snow on the ajoining mountain. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 12:03:42 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EF48FEE.5030506@sympatico.ca> Tim Rightnour wrote: >On 21-Jun-03 Todd wrote: > > >>As far as I know elevation isn't used at all after the weather maps are >>generated. >> >> > >Elevation is used to determine per square temperature. This means if you have >a road with elevation 0 going through a mountain of elevation 10k, it may not >snow on the road, but snow on the ajoining mountain. > > > But do you read it from the elevation map generated intially or do you keep reading it in from the worldmap? Are you expecting it to change? _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 13:07:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <20030621111538.76807.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030621111538.76807.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EF49EF6.8080503@sympatico.ca> David Seikel wrote: >Now that I have the chance, lets deal with my Python problems. > >Note, I really know very little about Python programming. I am a zen >programmer though, which is how I managed to modify the IPO scripts and >write my night club script. My main reason for changing the IPO scripts is >that the shelve thingy used in the original wouldn't work here. I had a >quick look, and the shelve stuff looked fine to me. However, I reasoned to >myself, the rest of Crossfire is based on text files, why use a DB for IPO? > Well I like using shelf because it is very simple and easy to do, also perhaps better performance. I did write a text file for housing in the past and found it was a pain to do while using the shelf was so simple it was almost hard to understand it at first. I would say if you are storing data and you don't need manual access (like the admin to modify it by hand) to it then a shelf database is the right way to go - that's what they are for. Plus I think it would have been used more in the server if it was as easy to us in c as it is in python ;). I had a problem with the shelf module as well but I think it was because the Python plugin was using the older version of python.h (this was on REDHAT and redhat 7.1 and that came with (relied on having) python 1.5 - the plugin used to go with the lower version first - and not the python2 I had installed to actually work on stuff. I know IPO requires python 2.x... I believe that was fixed and now the plugin looks for the newer version first, but at the time I used the "--with-includes=I/usr/..." to force it to use a specific python header- you might try that when configuring to point the plugin to my python2 (python 2.1 I think to make the shelf work). You can also read the log file for when the plugin loads for error messages... Nothing in the bigworld should be assumed to work with less than python 2.0 anyway so far as I know.. > >I've unpacked a fresh copy of crossfire 1.5 server from the release >tarball. >I've tracked down the /usrlocal/ problem you mentioned and fixed it. > >Relevant part of ./configure output - > >checking Python.h usability... no >checking Python.h presence... no >checking for Python.h... no >checking /usr/include/python/Python.h usability... yes >checking /usr/include/python/Python.h presence... yes >checking for /usr/include/python/Python.h... yes >checking for PyArg_ParseTuple in -lpython... no >checking for PyArg_ParseTuple in -lpython2.2... no >checking for PyArg_ParseTuple in -lpython2.1... no >checking for PyArg_ParseTuple in -lpython2.0... no >checking For python lib in various places... configure: creating >./config.status > >In the above, the last "checking For..." and the "configure: creating..." >are on the same line, it just got wrapped by my mail system, and might get >wrapped more by yours. Looks like it found Python, but didn't like what it >found. The python plugin was not compiled during the subsequant make. > > > now about the scripts you sent in, One thing right off, you shouldn't need to make your own mail class and mail storage system - you can use the existing mail class or even sub class it for an alternate mail system (courier service, local mail?) but if we have many different scripts doing the same thing different ways it will likely become a problem (files everywhere). The argument could be made that a scripting language shouldn't be able to create permenant files and this sort of thing (banking, mail file storage) should be done in the server code so we don't want to abuse it. If shelf doesn't work on SUSE we should try to fix it instead of having a mail db file for IPO and then your mail system using a text file storage. The same could be said of banks, slotmachines or any other basic mechanisims or what have you. First off I would get the newer python directory out of CVS and see how it has been laid out. Of course if you make yor own classes, try to make the classes as reusable/modular as possible. There are all the common 'modules' under Python - then the more custom scipts in their own folders which call on them. Also you might update your IPO scripts as they have been changed to use the plugin directory finding code so there are no hardcoded paths (so they need no changes to work). >In case you are wondering, a zen programmer tries to clear his mind of all >actual knowledge of any particular programming language, and tackles >programming from first principles. Thus he can program in any language, >with no knowledge of the language required. I've been doing this for >decades. On the other hand, I've done many years of Java and C >programming, so I do know a few things about them B-). Go on, ask me how >many languages I have programmed in... > > > I am more of a virtual zen programmer - I seem to do less actual coding. ;) I do however think that does not make my thoughts on these things useless. I did think about this plugin stuff a lot though and have done some changes to make things tick better I think. I think that as the plython plugin gets used more it will be important to keep things neat in there and follow some similar guidelines like: all python scripts should break properly when the plugin isn't installed/running, code should be modular and reuseable (let's leverage those objects eh), no admin intervention should be required to install or use script stuff (use the pathfinding in the plugin...no special file/directory permissioin changes...) changes to existing stuff shouldn't be done without a consenesus clean up after yourself (don't leave unused junk in the player files or in the var directory..) These rules should only be broken with a good reason... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 21 23:00:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] autoconf requirements Message-ID: <3EF529CE.5040706@sympatico.ca> Autoconfig requirements were recently changed to 2.54. Debian Woody does not meet these. I changed the AC_PREREQ([2.54]) back to 2.52 and it seemed to work (although it did run the arch collect which I thought odd) so is this a real requirement? http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/crossfire/crossfire/aclocal.m4.diff?r1=1.9&r2=1.10 Also Automake version was upgraded as well and I got warning about this too. If this was necessary then we should note it, seems to be a problem for Debian Stable anyway, if it wasn't necessary then maybe we shouldn't up the requirements for these tools at this time as they are still not being used in the current version of at least one main distro. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 22 01:12:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EF48FEE.5030506@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 21-Jun-03 Todd wrote: > But do you read it from the elevation map generated intially or do you > keep reading it in from the worldmap? Are you expecting it to change? Yes.. I do expect it to change.. the elevation map is an average. Basically, I use the map to get the rough temperature of the waethermap tile roughed in, and rough in the weather, then fine tune it on a per square basis with the real value. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 22 02:12:21 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Ice Castle in the Large Forest. In-Reply-To: <20030621104907.42817.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030621104907.42817.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EF556D5.3030409@sonic.net> David Seikel wrote: > As it was an experiment, I dumped most monsters in there so I could see how > it plays. I actually have no idea which quests the Dave and Evil Masters > come from, I haven't been on those quests yet. I have no objection to > removing them. The Daves are way to hard to kill in a big open area like > an arena, so other than the fact that they have the same name as me, I > won't miss them B-). The Evil Masters are also too hard to kill, I will > miss them even less. Well, one could argue that per quest artifact monsters/items really should not be in the archetypes as is. Instead, a generic (and probably weaker) version should be in the default archetypes - one that can be re-used, and the map just customizes that how it wants. To some extent, it is reasonable to expect that if something is in the archetypes, it is fair game to use however. > Again, I don't know all the quests, I just started with all of the spells, > then censored those that I knew should be censored. Looks like I should > censor some more, please send me a list. The big library is only openable > by the Prince, and he only does that as a reward. So far, I haven't come > up with a quest worthy of the reward, so it is basically his own personal > library. This is similar to the big secret ring room in Scorn, where only > the DM can get in. Well, the simple test would be that if it won't be randomly generated in a spellbook, it should be considered a quest spell. IF it can be found randomly in a spellbook, then making them all available isn't a big deal. However, the new spell code I'm currently working on confuses this some - there is still a list of spells that will be found in a spellbooks, but one could now easily customize/create a new spell with just changes of the object (eg, a huge fireball just requires increasing the 'range' of the spell). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 22 06:59:09 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] unique monsters in the arches (Re: Ice Castle) References: <3EF556D5.3030409@sonic.net> Message-ID: <9088.1056283149@www21.gmx.net> Mark Wedel wrote: > Well, one could argue that per quest artifact monsters/items really > should not be in the archetypes as is. Instead, a generic > (and probably weaker) version should be in the default archetypes > - one that can be re-used, and the map just customizes that how it wants. Actually I'd love to make take them out of the arches and make them map-customized. The reason why I can't do this is that I have no good trust in the way map-customized monsters are processed. You know that map-attributes in monsters get overrided as soon as they apply anything. The evil masters use equipment for instance, so there is no way around it. It might be possible to insert applied forces to carry some of their customized stats, but I have tried that once and had the feeling it was not relyable. Is it? I just don't want to have cheesy ways reducing the evil master's stats. The only way to assure this seemed putting them in the arches. Second, these monsters need animations and they must be defined in the arches. I don't like the idea of weaker versions of evil masters either. Evil masters are quest related unique monsters. I don't want rooms full of them somewhere else. They are not supposed to be like orcs which come in all variants. > To some extent, it is reasonable to expect that if something > is in the archetypes, it is fair game to use however. Yeah, I agree that's how it should be, really. Though for above named reasons it doesn't quite work out. So what can I do? For one thing, I could set their names in the arches to something like "Don't use this!", and override it with the real name on maps. Maybe that's a dirty solution but at least there would be a hint not to use them. AndreasV -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ Bitte l?cheln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage! _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 22 10:43:12 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Ice Castle in the Large Forest. In-Reply-To: <3EF556D5.3030409@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 22-Jun-03 Mark Wedel wrote: > To some extent, it is reasonable to expect that if something is in the > archetypes, it is fair game to use however. One might wonder how one is supposed to know that any given item is a quest item. Perhaps we need an unused arc string, like "quest 1" to denote quest items, or perhaps they should all go in a single directory. The more maps we add, the worse it will get. Personally I like having special objects in the arc files, because then I only have one directory to troll around to do mass changes to objects. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 22 22:09:43 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Ice Castle in the Large Forest. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030623030943.2429.qmail@web21302.mail.yahoo.com> I'll get around to replying to the others later. This is my lunch break now, and I only have time for some quick replies. --- Tim Rightnour wrote: > One might wonder how one is supposed to know that any given item is a > quest item. Perhaps we need an unused arc string, like "quest 1" to > denote quest items, or perhaps they should all go in a single directory. I agree, something like that would make it a lot easier to avoid using the things you ate not supposed to use. > Personally I like having special objects in the arc files, because then I > only have one directory to troll around to do mass changes to objects. I created a special object to support the night club in my Ice Castle, you will find it in the archive I sent. It really needs to have it's own picture, but that is beyond my skills. While I have no objection to it being used elsewhere, it has to be used very carefully. It offers a big load of protections against a large variety of things, but all for good reason. You see, the night club uses a variety of dangerous spells to create its lighting effects, and I didn't want to fry my patrons to a crisp. That tends to make your night club unpopular B-). There are two layers of squares around the entrance that should remove the item, and I did the same around every exit from that map as backup. So, the item should never make it out of the night club, or the castle. It is still probably open to abuse, so I added a few downsides to help a bit. Flashing lights, fog machines, loud music, all tend to have bad affects on people B-). Not to mention party drugs... http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 22 22:39:52 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] unique monsters in the arches (Re: Ice Castle) In-Reply-To: <9088.1056283149@www21.gmx.net> References: <3EF556D5.3030409@sonic.net> <9088.1056283149@www21.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3EF67688.1000800@sonic.net> Andreas Vogl wrote: > Mark Wedel wrote: > > Actually I'd love to make take them out of the arches and make > them map-customized. > The reason why I can't do this is that I have no good trust > in the way map-customized monsters are processed. > You know that map-attributes in monsters get overrided as > soon as they apply anything. The evil masters use equipment > for instance, so there is no way around it. Yeah - that is a problem with no really good workaround (other than to set the creature not to apply any equipment - if you know what equipment they will have, you could in a sense pre-apply those adjustments). > It might be possible to insert applied forces to carry some of their > customized stats, but I have tried that once and had the feeling > it was not relyable. Is it? It should be reliable. However, one has to make sure that one sets up the force so that it doesn't expire - changing the speed of the force to 0 should do that. > Second, these monsters need animations and they must be defined > in the arches. I don't like the idea of weaker versions of > evil masters either. Evil masters are quest related unique > monsters. I don't want rooms full of them somewhere else. > They are not supposed to be like orcs which come in all variants. Fair enough - I could see the same thing with probably some of the artifact armor/weapons - you need an archetype for the image/animation, and you'd still not want look alike items all over the place - it sort of reduces the 'wow - I've never seen that before - I wonder what it is'. > For one thing, I could set their names in the arches to something > like "Don't use this!", and override it with the real name on maps. > Maybe that's a dirty solution but at least there would be a hint > not to use them. Perhaps a better, but not quite as obvious method, would be to put some info into the message of the object, like: msg this is a quest related artifact. Do not re-use it without prior discussion on the mailing lists. It is current found on map A, coordinats x,y endmsg Or combine that with changing the name. But it'd be nice to convey where these special artifacts currently are found. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 23 03:36:51 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] unique monsters in the arches (Re: Ice Castle) In-Reply-To: <3EF67688.1000800@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20030623083651.34704.qmail@web21309.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Wedel wrote: > But it'd be nice to convey where these special artifacts currently are > found. To the map makers you mean, not to ordinary players B-). http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 23 03:50:57 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EF489F5.10900@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20030623085057.47109.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd wrote: > You might want to update your copy of the maps - there were some large > scale changes in the areas near and around this change - specifically I'll have to see if I can get to the CVS through one of the various firewalls I have to deal with. > I don't suggest just a per map figure, I suggested storing the map > average in the map header then determining the elevation of each tile by > the arch when creating the elevation/humidity map. You would still end > up with a value for each tile. but you would not have to maintain the The general problem I was talking about was not just elevation information, but any per tile information that may be added in future versions of the server. I gave local mana and grace as examples that your method would not help with. I actually see no problem with your method for elevation, I was just pointing out that it won't work for the general problem of new per tile info. On the other hand, I currently have no ideas of my own for solving that particular general problem, and for all I know, there is nothing coming in the next few versions that would require it. It would be nice to have Lythander be a big influence in my forest though B-). http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 02:00:16 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals References: <20030623085057.47109.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001c33a1e$450521e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> > The general problem I was talking about was not just elevation information, > but any per tile information that may be added in future versions of the > server. I gave local mana and grace as examples that your method would not > help with. I actually see no problem with your method for elevation, I was > just pointing out that it won't work for the general problem of new per > tile info. > > On the other hand, I currently have no ideas of my own for solving that > particular general problem, and for all I know, there is nothing coming in > the next few versions that would require it. It would be nice to have > Lythander be a big influence in my forest though B-). > Well it certainly does need solving. I don't see storing these sort of raw values in every tile very sustainable - even if a reasonable way to manage large changes can be developed for the Java editor, it has to be remembered that these sort of things need to work with other worldmaps and other editors as well, not just bigworld and the java editor. If someone were to generate a worldmap by hand the weather system should work for that map as well without requiring elevation be added to each tile. Even it is a matter of brute force generating an entire ghost map of elevation whenever there is a large change to the world maps on your server for the weather code to reference it would be better than trying to maintain these elevation levels in the map making tools. It is simple to maintain the existing value yes, but that isn't good enough.. If an area is converted from hill to a lake - it makes no sense to keep the current elevation which was generated and 'sloped' by the map generation tool - now that area is out of context and needs to be re generated. Adding in random values based on the new arches will make the map too choppy. I question the need to have the weather so specific in any case. Couldnt a good weather system be worked out based on a single average elevation per map and the ground arch types in each tile? Were not calculating cow farts on the ozone here - so far it is just pretty to have weather and there is no game play value yet. It would be better to figure out a different way of doing this sort of thing. For stuff like local variable mana and grace it is more likely that something like no-magic tiles would be used. I can't see implementing a system where every tile on the map had it's own hardcoded mana or grace modifier... I have thought of the possibility adding a field to floor arches that could be set to indicate belonging so that you could indicate that a certain area 'belonged' to a specific city or other such abstract entity. These could be manipulated pretty easily and then areas could be linked to an object to impact local effects (local modifiers to mana, grace, speed, weather...) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 23 16:31:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Questions on the default tile size Message-ID: Currently, the default tile size in Crossfire is 32x32 pixels What is involved in making the default tile size 64x64 pixels? Client only change? Server only change? Both? A massive amount of work? Trivial change? Just wondering... - Rick -- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 02:18:12 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <001001c33a1e$450521e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <20030623085057.47109.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> <001001c33a1e$450521e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <3EF7FB34.9060206@sonic.net> Well, one possibility is to use other objects to denote these pieces of information. Eg, have an object on the space that has elevation information, territory information, etc, which is normally hidden (invisible and/or below the floor/terrain). Thus, you could replace the actual tile that the player sees without destroying this informatin. However, doing this would double the amount of objects used for these maps. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 02:30:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Questions on the default tile size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EF7FE16.8060601@sonic.net> Rick Tanner wrote: > Currently, the default tile size in Crossfire is 32x32 pixels > > What is involved in making the default tile size 64x64 pixels? > > Client only change? Server only change? Both? > > A massive amount of work? Trivial change? Depends. At the most basic level, client only change. Make 64x64 images for all graphics, and point the client to them (so it as a grass.111 that is 64x64). This works except when you run into an image that has been added. Simple solution would be to just resize that - at least in the gtk client, there are resize functions (and you can in fact use them right now, to adjust the size of images for the inventory and map window). I believe the actual size of images the client will draw is either a variable or define, so trivial to make that be 64. The server code itself cares less what the image size is - it doesn't even care what the images are, format, etc. However, the said, the server (and arch) does now support the idea of different image sets. The classic and base set are the two sets currently in the game, bug you could easily add a 'big' or '64' or whatever you want to call it set. In this mode, the client just requests it wants the big set, and any images that are served to it which are not in that set (because it is missing), it could then resize. this also is a pure client change, other than to put the images into the arch directory. All this presumes adding a new image set that is 64x64, not changing the default (current) set - to change that would break all sorts of things (basically, any old client that is not expecting it). And simply put, converting everything to 64x64 is not a trivial process - 4000 some odd images out there. And almost certainly, you'll have enough people that want to keep with the 32x32 images (less bandwidth, more shown on the display, etc), that you just couldn't get rid of it anyways. I know some number of people weren't happy that the 24x24 images went away until the resize code was added, simply because if you want to play on a laptop or otherwise resolution limited screen, you don't have a lot of extra space to play with. After all, with a 25x25 viewable map, if the images are 32x32 pixels, this is 800x800. Isn't hard to see that a 25x25 with 64x64 pixels is 1600x1600 - too large for most any screen. If we presume the players have 1600x1200 screen (a very generous assumption probably), you could maybe use 1200x1200 of it or so, with that remaining 400 down the side for stats and whatnot? This gives you abou an 18x18 display. So you're now talking a tradeoff - bigger images, thsu more detail, but you see less of what is around you. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 05:30:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EF49EF6.8080503@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20030624103014.74342.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> I don't really want to spend much more time on python scripting, I just want it to work so that at least the night club script will do what I need it to do. The IPO stuff was really just to play with as examples, but they needed to be working, so I spent more time than I wanted. I will likely concentrate on my maps and weather code. --- Todd wrote: > One thing right off, you shouldn't need to make your own mail class and > mail storage system - you can use the existing mail class or even sub > class it for an alternate mail system (courier service, local mail?) but > if we have many different scripts doing the same thing different ways it > will likely become a problem (files everywhere). The argument could be > made that a scripting language shouldn't be able to create permenant > files and this sort of thing (banking, mail file storage) should be done > in the server code so we don't want to abuse it. If shelf doesn't work > on SUSE we should try to fix it instead of having a mail db file for IPO > and then your mail system using a text file storage. The same could be I would love to get the python stuff working perfectly here, I didn't really want to spend the time rewriting the IPO scripts. My python knowledge is non existant though, and it looked a much easier job to rewrite for text files than fix shelf. > you. First off I would get the newer python directory out of CVS and > see how it has been laid out. After I can convince crossfire to compile the python plugin here, I will grab the latest python stuff and see if shelf works now. If it doesn't, I will probably remove the PO and bank stuff from my maps and have the prince keep all his money in huge piles in his apartment. > Of course if you make yor own classes, try to make the classes as > reusable/modular as possible. I always try to. > There are all the common 'modules' under Python - then the more custom > scipts in their own folders which call on them. Also you might update > your IPO scripts as they have been changed to use the plugin directory > finding code so there are no hardcoded paths (so they need no changes to > work). I haven't looked at my python stuff for a while, and I don't have it here, but I seem to recall making that or a similar change. > I am more of a virtual zen programmer - I seem to do less actual coding. > ;) I do however think that does not make my thoughts on these things > useless. I did think about this plugin stuff a lot though and have done > some changes to make things tick better I think. I think that as the > plython plugin gets used more it will be important to keep things neat > in there and follow some similar guidelines like: > > all python scripts should break properly when the plugin isn't > installed/running, How do they get called if the plugin isn't working? > code should be modular and reuseable (let's leverage those objects eh), Always! > no admin intervention should be required to install or use script stuff > (use the pathfinding in the plugin...no special file/directory > permissioin changes...) I did notice that there would be a problem if two different sets of scripts want to trigger from the same event, since you can only have one script per event. The example was I tried to have both the IPO and my version of PO code, and they both needed to trigger from player life cycle events (born, login, etc.). I had to merge the two. > changes to existing stuff shouldn't be done without a consenesus That's why I basically forked cleanly, so that my version could live with the old version. I changed names and stuff to avoid conflicts. Now that I am part of the group, I'll play nicely B-). http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 06:13:27 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <001001c33a1e$450521e0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <20030624111327.48928.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd Mitchell wrote: > I question the need to have the weather so specific in any case. > Couldnt a good weather system be worked out based on a single average > elevation per map and the ground arch types in each tile? Were not > calculating cow farts on the ozone here - so far it is just pretty to have > weather and there is no game play value yet. (I did a look through the server code and elevation is not used for LOS in the server, although I seem to remember it looked that way from the client.) Specific elevation is only used in the weather code to calculate per tile temperature so that we can decide to snow / freeze ice / melt snow or ice / grow things on that tile. The rest of the weather system uses an average elevation that is pre calculated (very slowly) during the servers initial run, then stored. There is a split between the weather itself, and it's effects on tiles. During that initial pre calc, elevation and water / land ratios are averaged to a 100 x 100 grid. Both drive the weather system. On the other hand, like real weather, the weather system is chaotic. Small changes can produce large outcomes. This was made obvious to me when I tweaked things after writing my visualisation code. However, only average elevation affects this. Basically, average elevation drives the weather, which drives average temperature. After the weather has been calculated, things get more specific again to decide what effect this all has on individual tiles. Currently, the weather system runs as part of the server, so it needs to do it's work quickly to not slow down play. My current project is to split it off to another program that runs seperately and only bothers the server when it is time to overlay snow and stuff onto tiles. It would connect to the server as a player with some DM style priviledges, I call it WG (Weather God). I already have a modified server and GTK client that has the WG log on, become WG, vanish, and teleport to each big world map in turn. I am at the stage where I am getting relevant weather / map information exchanged. This project has stalled since my OS upgrade because I can't get the damn python plugin to compile. Note, my weather code doesn't need python, I only want it for my Ice castle maps. The weather server could take your average elevation, take it's time to create more specific elevation, store that, and then start generating weather. If it notices that a map has changed average elevation, it would recreate the specific elevation. Since a seperate weather server can take it's time, it could even create specific elevation on the fly as it is needed. > modifier... I have thought of the possibility adding a field to floor > arches that could be set to indicate belonging so that you could indicate > that a certain area 'belonged' to a specific city or other such abstract > entity. These could be manipulated pretty easily and then areas could be > linked to an object to impact local effects (local modifiers to mana, > grace, speed, weather...) Sounds good to me. Such a system could also be used to cut out the bloat that my Ice castle maps suffer from. Which brings up a question, do people think that my maps are too bloated? There is a good reason for the bloat, but I would like to achieve the same effect using some less bloated method. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 10:52:20 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] minor gtk bug Message-ID: <20030624155220.31754.qmail@emc.com> Most of us have probably forgotten that you can move using the mouse by clicking on the square next to you. Anyway, it seems to be hard-coded to expect the default display size. --PC _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 10:58:28 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen Message-ID: <20030624155828.31828.qmail@emc.com> Would anyone object if I added a command-line and configuration file option to skip the splash screen in the GTK client? Oh, and I would point out that the Crossfire logo used in the splash screen uses the old dragon image. (Personally I like the old dragon image better. I also liked the old cyclops image. Perhaps those images could be brought back for new monsters?) --PC _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 23:33:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] more proposals References: <20030624103014.74342.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601c33ad2$fe992b60$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> From: "David Seikel" > > I don't really want to spend much more time on python scripting, I just > want it to work so that at least the night club script will do what I need > it to do. The IPO stuff was really just to play with as examples, but they > needed to be working, so I spent more time than I wanted. I will likely > concentrate on my maps and weather code. > I would love to get the python stuff working perfectly here, I didn't > really want to spend the time rewriting the IPO scripts. My python > knowledge is non existant though, and it looked a much easier job to > rewrite for text files than fix shelf. > The shelf fix is likely something top do with the default database module being borked (I think bsddb?) and should be a all or nothing fix I am thinking (I can't remember and I am too lazy/busy at the moment to search through the mail archives here for when I sent messages about this issue - maybe there is some more info in there?) I remember having to change the make file for the plugin by hand because the header used (I used --with-includes...) and the library (make file was grabbing python 1.5 module path) were not matching up properly (again two python versions on Redhat - python 1.5 was python (*required) and python 2.1 was python2...) I do know that I haven't had any problems for a while with current versions of the server. If you don't fix shelf other python enabled features on the maps like the IPO will break on you as well however. If shelf is broken I would suspect this other stuff may cause you problems too, perhaps unpredictably. did you try running configure with the --with-includes=I/usr/include/python2.1 (or python2.2 or whatever your path is?) If there is a problem with the plugin and SUSE in particular it would be good to be able to post a fix for people. > > all python scripts should break properly when the plugin isn't > > installed/running, > > How do they get called if the plugin isn't working? > Exactly the right question and the answer as well -always ask that when making a new feature with a plugin. You shouldn't have anything in your maps that is *required* functionality (like exits or parts of a quest) that will break if the plugin isn't loaded. One way to do this is to lock out any Python necessary quests when the plugin is't working (use the plugin to open the doors rather than a normal exit or somesuch so people can't even get in). The other way is not to use the plugin for important stuff, but as enhancements (so your bank clerk will just say 'I'm on a break come back later' if the plugin isn't installed.) This works because python overides the trigger events so you can put in actions that will work different when ther is no python... This 'bustability' is why somehting like a universal bank system shouldn't be done in Python if you want to incorporate it into the game and tie it into other stuff. You can of course have banks and mail and stuff as perks for python enabled servers however. It really is too bad since there is so much you can can do with the plugin, but it is a good policy not to rely on it for the official crossfire packages (although for a specific crossfire server you can go nuts and do what you like :)) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 23:37:22 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] minor gtk bug References: <20030624155220.31754.qmail@emc.com> Message-ID: <001f01c33ad3$78f15c20$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Using the mouse for movement this way seems to me such a waste of a good mouse click... > Most of us have probably forgotten that you can move using the mouse by > clicking on the square next to you. Anyway, it seems to be hard-coded to > expect the default display size. > > --PC > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 23:43:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen References: <20030624155828.31828.qmail@emc.com> Message-ID: <002401c33ad4$5e34c420$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> > Oh, and I would point out that the Crossfire logo used in the splash screen > uses the old dragon image. (Personally I like the old dragon image better. > I also liked the old cyclops image. Perhaps those images could be brought > back for new monsters?) > The cyclops image (and the dragon likely) is still there, it is in the classic image set where flat perspective images belong (as opposed to this difficult to capture offset perspective image business in the base set). The classic images arent just crummy old images you know - they are different style of images - some of them are very nice. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 11:53:52 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen In-Reply-To: <002401c33ad4$5e34c420$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <20030624155828.31828.qmail@emc.com> <002401c33ad4$5e34c420$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <20030624165352.GA27882@crystal> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 12:43:47AM -0400, Todd Mitchell wrote: > > > Oh, and I would point out that the Crossfire logo used in the splash > > screen uses the old dragon image. (Personally I like the old dragon > > image better. > > I also liked the old cyclops image. Perhaps those images could be > > brought back for new monsters?) > > > The cyclops image (and the dragon likely) is still there, it is in the > classic image set where flat perspective images belong (as opposed to this > difficult to capture offset perspective image business in the base set). > The classic images arent just crummy old images you know - they are > different style of images - some of them are very nice. [snip] I second that!!! :-) I find the base images rather ugly, because a lot of details of monsters are obscured by the perspective. I really like some of the new "classic" images like the big wizard, the Dread Knights, and the Dread . Let's face it, the base image Dread looks like a cartoon puffball with an eye. It just does not live up to the Dread's reputation of being a very dangerous giant beholder, much less its *name*. My Dread image at least looks scary, as it should be! ;-) T -- Why is the sea always restless? Its bed is too rocky to sleep on. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 00:14:12 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen References: <20030624155828.31828.qmail@emc.com> <002401c33ad4$5e34c420$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <20030624165352.GA27882@crystal> Message-ID: <002f01c33ad8$9e4b7c80$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> > I second that!!! :-) > > I find the base images rather ugly, because a lot of details of monsters > are obscured by the perspective. I really like some of the new > "classic" images like the big wizard, the Dread Knights, and the > Dread . Let's face it, the > base image Dread looks like a cartoon puffball with an eye. It just does > not live up to the Dread's reputation of being a very dangerous giant > beholder, much less its *name*. My Dread image at least looks scary, as it > should be! ;-) While on the subject of shamlessness, I wouldn't mind if someone (anyone?) wanted to assist in fixing up the player images still without movement animations (race and class images) for some of the classic images - (I havent even finished the base set yet and it will be forever before I get to the classic ones.) So long as the classic *player* images suck the whole set sucks...no one wants their character to look bad... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 14:49:58 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen In-Reply-To: <002f01c33ad8$9e4b7c80$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <20030624155828.31828.qmail@emc.com> <002401c33ad4$5e34c420$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <20030624165352.GA27882@crystal> <002f01c33ad8$9e4b7c80$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <20030624214958.54157616.scachi@gmx.de> On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:14:12 -0400 "Todd Mitchell" wrote: > the classic ones.) So long as the classic *player* images suck the whole > set sucks...no one wants their character to look bad... Are the "Troll-Ninja" and a "Human-Ninja" still the same Image ? I don't like to have the same image for different races. A draw fighter shouldn't look like a human fighter. A warrior with a mithril armour shouldn't look like a warrior with a wooden armour. Is this just a bandwidth problem ? _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Jun 24 15:12:27 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen In-Reply-To: <20030624214958.54157616.scachi@gmx.de> References: <20030624155828.31828.qmail@emc.com> <002401c33ad4$5e34c420$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <20030624165352.GA27882@crystal> <002f01c33ad8$9e4b7c80$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <20030624214958.54157616.scachi@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20030624201227.GA30149@crystal> On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 09:49:58PM +0200, scachi@gmx.de wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:14:12 -0400 > "Todd Mitchell" wrote: > > > the classic ones.) So long as the classic *player* images suck the whole > > set sucks...no one wants their character to look bad... > > Are the "Troll-Ninja" and a "Human-Ninja" still the same Image ? > I don't like to have the same image for different races. > A draw fighter shouldn't look like a human fighter. > > A warrior with a mithril armour shouldn't look like a warrior with a > wooden armour. > > Is this just a bandwidth problem ? [snip] Well, that, and the sheer number of combinations of character/class/ armour/weapon. It's just not practical to have a different image for every possible combination, considering the vast variety of equipment in the game. Unless the client composites images of armour/weapon, but even then, that's a LOT of effort to draw a scaled-down version of every weapon/armor, possibly in several different angles. T -- If lightning were to ever strike an orchestra, it'd always hit the conductor. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 04:22:26 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen References: <20030624155828.31828.qmail@emc.com><002401c33ad4$5e34c420$0802a8c0@KAMERIA><20030624165352.GA27882@crystal><002f01c33ad8$9e4b7c80$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> <20030624214958.54157616.scachi@gmx.de> Message-ID: <003e01c33afb$4bee0c00$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> From: > Are the "Troll-Ninja" and a "Human-Ninja" still the same Image ? > I don't like to have the same image for different races. > A draw fighter shouldn't look like a human fighter. > > A warrior with a mithril armour shouldn't look like a warrior with a wooden armour. > > Is this just a bandwidth problem ? > Bandwith is an issue, there are so many good graphics being drawn and contributed that the sourceforge servers cannot handle the load......;) But seriously I would love to see a few good class animations for each race or at least three sprites for each race - light (robed, meduim armour and heavy equipped). But with 8 images per sprite that's a lot of graphics. Then double that because I am very interested in maintining the classic set too since I am a fan of the toon motif. I am still hoping to get this done over time but it is on the back burner for now. Seriously, most of the player animations have been animated - and that took a little chunk of time but there is more that needs to be done. This is a lower priority, but I would also like to see a stone and a gold graphic for each player sprite, also maybe a deader to make those playing on a permadeath server more happy when they die ("Which corpse did you say was yours Jean-Guy? There are twelve piled up here in this hallway...I wonder what's around this corner?") Nope the only issue is that there are not enough good sprites... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 00:41:45 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen In-Reply-To: <20030624155828.31828.qmail@emc.com> References: <20030624155828.31828.qmail@emc.com> Message-ID: <3EF93619.4070107@sonic.net> Preston Crow wrote: > Would anyone object if I added a command-line and configuration file option > to skip the splash screen in the GTK client? No complaint. I wonder if it would be just as useful to put it into where the map is normally displayed, so something is shown there when selecting what server you want to play. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 01:38:58 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <20030624111327.48928.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030624111327.48928.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EF94382.5020206@sonic.net> David Seikel wrote: > Currently, the weather system runs as part of the server, so it needs to do > it's work quickly to not slow down play. My current project is to split it > off to another program that runs seperately and only bothers the server > when it is time to overlay snow and stuff onto tiles. It would connect to > the server as a player with some DM style priviledges, I call it WG > (Weather God). I already have a modified server and GTK client that has > the WG log on, become WG, vanish, and teleport to each big world map in > turn. I am at the stage where I am getting relevant weather / map > information exchanged. This project has stalled since my OS upgrade > because I can't get the damn python plugin to compile. Note, my weather > code doesn't need python, I only want it for my Ice castle maps. I wonder if that is really more efficient. Being able to have a client/watch what it is doing can be neat, but I'd tend to guess that it is the loading/saving of maps which is going to be the major performance hit on the server site - and communicating what is on the map frm the server to client and back again. One could certainly only do these updates when no one is on the server - I think the current weather code tries to do that. However, that doesn't help if the server is never complete vacant. If performance was really an issue, making a weather thread would probably be the way to go. Only minimal amount of locking would be needed - all the weather values would be private, so it'd only need to lock access to a map level. Presuming the time it actually takes to process each map isn't that great, you could do something simple on the object level - if an object is active on a lock map, just skip its action for this tick. Eventually, I'd like to thread crossfire in this way - at a map level. But not sure if it would fixtoo many problems. It'd probably fix the biggest which is loading/saving a map may take more than one tick. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 05:44:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <3EF94382.5020206@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20030625104455.74832.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> > tend to guess that it is the loading/saving of maps which is going to be > the major performance hit on the server site - and communicating what is > on the map frm the server to client and back again. Since the WG is just another client, the server only needs to send the usual info to it, no performance hit there. Sending info back again would bog down the server, if it was a large lump of info. With the current weather resolution, it won't be a large lump. I am trying to cut it down to only the info needed for the map the WG is currently on. > One could certainly only do these updates when no one is on the server > - I think the current weather code tries to do that. Exactly the opposite, the weather updates to the maps happen on maps that players are currently on. The current weather system also slowly goes through the maps one at a time updating. > If performance was really an issue, making a weather thread would > probably be the way to go. Only minimal amount of locking would be needed > - all the weather values would be private, so it'd only need to lock > access to a map level. Part of my reason for doing the split is that I am invloved in a cluster project, and simulating weather is a good job for a cluster. So I want to have the Weather God server running on a seperate computer / cluster. Tricky to do with threads. Once I have the basics running, I will dramatically increase the reolution of the weather system, but it shouldn't increase the load on the game server. By making the resolution a configurable parameter, ordinary server operators won't be needing super computers to calculate weather B-). On the other hand, those that want more and have some spare computers lying around... Is any of this stuff I am doing needed? Nope, only the previous patches I posted are needed to make the weather system better. Weather God just fits in with other stuff I am doing, so I'll do it. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 05:56:21 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python problems. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <001601c33ad2$fe992b60$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <20030625105621.85379.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd Mitchell wrote: > The shelf fix is likely something top do with the default database module > being borked (I think bsddb?) and should be a all or nothing fix I am > thinking (I can't remember and I am too lazy/busy at the moment to search > through the mail archives here for when I sent messages about this issue Damn, I'll have to leave this until Saturday week when I can get things together enough. > did you try running configure with > the --with-includes=I/usr/include/python2.1 (or python2.2 or whatever > your path is?) Yep, and something similar for the lib directory. > If there is a problem with the plugin and SUSE in particular > it would be good to be able to post a fix for people. If I wasn't siitng in the office answering long emails right now, I would be at home trying to fix this B-). > > How do they get called if the plugin isn't working? > > > Exactly the right question and the answer as well -always ask that when > making a new feature with a plugin. You shouldn't have anything in your > maps that is *required* functionality (like exits or parts of a quest) > that will break if the plugin isn't loaded. One way to do this is to lock > out any Python necessary quests when the plugin is't working (use the > plugin to open the doors rather than a normal exit or somesuch so people > can't even get in). The other way is not to use the plugin for important > stuff, but as enhancements (so your bank clerk will just say 'I'm on a > break come back later' if the plugin isn't installed.) This works because > python overides the trigger events so you can put in actions that will > work different when ther is no python... More inducement to get Python working, as the night club scripts are important to night club patron survival. I'll have to check that you can't even get into the night club with no python running. This is not that big a deal, since as with every other building in the Ice castle, the walls are see thru. You can watch the NPCs dancing and gaze in wonder at the light show, even if the door bitches won't let you in. I'll make an effort this weekend, but I will be without 'net all weekend B-(. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 11:22:08 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon Message-ID: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> Hello, sorry for the big picture, but I think you will need the informations in it and sorry for my english. I have played crossfire in a local lan for a very long time and realy like this game. But I think the weapon/speed/weight/speed/spell/mana/grace/hitpointregeneration/allstufflikethat isn't realy balanced well. Look at the screenshot from my player and you'll understand. walks/hit too fast to much armour a weapon with to much power <- without "of Lythander" it was okay. Players can walk to fast I was duelling in the arena with a friend, and we couldn't hit each other, because we run to fast. ( Party is still active in the arena and at first we couldn't do damage to another because we were in the same party). Mana regenerates to slow, it is realy stupid to pray on and on (cast,cast,cast, pray,pray,pray,pray......,cast,cast,pray,pray...) There isn't enough difference between sorcerer warrior and so on. I think a player should have a big minus to learned skill out of scrolls to make a difference to the normal given abilities to the player (more exp needed) or/and decrease the max level a character can reach in a skill. A character can carry to much weight. I don't think it is good that you can carry 6 or more weapons/armors around, so you can have the best weapon/armor for each monster you'll meet. Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Crossfire.png Type: image/png Size: 113780 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20030625/c4ef13db/Crossfire.png From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 12:24:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen Message-ID: <20030625172447.7488.qmail@emc.com> >> Would anyone object if I added a command-line and configuration file option >> to skip the splash screen in the GTK client? > > No complaint. I wonder if it would be just as useful to put it into where the >map is normally displayed, so something is shown there when selecting what >server you want to play. I just checked in the change. You can configure it from the menu like the other options, or you can use command-line options. I modeled it after the -popups/-nopopups option. I even updated the man page. The default is to display the splash screen, so the change should go unnoticed for most people. If I missed anything or did something wrong, please let me know. (Even if you fix it, so I learn how it should be done.) As to displaying it in the map window when not connected to a server, that's a great idea, but that would take more work. I expect we would need a different logo for it to fit right with the default map size. --PC _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 15:28:06 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> References: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> Message-ID: Try a fighter with 30str/con and youll see someone who puts your char to shame =) Shouldnt be to hard to get like dam200 and weaponspeed 9.50 or thereabouts and there are several encounters in the game which are no where near trivialized by that. Mind you are lvl108 and basicly as big as your gonna get. The new spell stacking code i think creates a huge difference between the different classes, err races, classes dont really matter much. Although they did kinda ruin the wizard class for me personaly =( And i can asume that you meant 'of Devourers' and not lythander right? I do agree that the death attack is really overpowered in most places, but then again it does nothing at all if your not high enough lvl. And it not working on weapons with slaying is kinda lousy if you ask me... Praying to regain mana? Again i will make an asumption that you mean grace since thats what praying is for. This i to feel is just way to anoying, to the point in fact that i never use it for anything but support spells like protection and recall and such. Mana regen on the other hand isnt bad at all with the proper stuff, I'd suggest you get your little wizard over to the tower of magi and get yourself the midnight robe and staff of magi and those. they rock! And as for armor. I thought the item_power thingy had taken care of that rather decently? Atleast i found that several highend items no longer could be enchanter like before, hardly at all even. // Magnus Kronhamn email: mak@solace.mh.se On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 scachi@gmx.de wrote: > Hello, > > sorry for the big picture, but I think you will need the informations in it > and sorry for my english. > > I have played crossfire in a local lan for a very long time > and realy like this game. > > But I think the weapon/speed/weight/speed/spell/mana/grace/hitpointregeneration/allstufflikethat > isn't realy balanced well. > > Look at the screenshot from my player and you'll understand. > > walks/hit too fast > to much armour > a weapon with to much power <- without "of Lythander" it was okay. > > Players can walk to fast > I was duelling in the arena with a friend, and we couldn't hit each other, > because we run to fast. ( Party is still active in the arena and at > first we couldn't do damage to another because we were in the same > party). > > Mana regenerates to slow, it is realy stupid to pray on and on > (cast,cast,cast, pray,pray,pray,pray......,cast,cast,pray,pray...) > > There isn't enough difference between sorcerer warrior and so on. > I think a player should have a big minus to learned > skill out of scrolls to make a difference to the > normal given abilities to the player (more exp needed) > or/and decrease the max level a character can reach in a skill. > > A character can carry to much weight. > I don't think it is good that you can carry 6 or more weapons/armors around, > so you can have the best weapon/armor for each monster you'll meet. > > Ingo > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 15:34:52 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 25-Jun-03 Magnus Kronhamn wrote: > Praying to regain mana? No, sadly that works.. because prayer forces a do_some_living, rapid prayer can regenerate you faster than just sitting there. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 15:50:33 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: References: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20030625205033.GA8376@crystal> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:28:06PM +0200, Magnus Kronhamn wrote: > > Try a fighter with 30str/con and youll see someone who puts your char to > shame =) > Shouldnt be to hard to get like dam200 and weaponspeed 9.50 or thereabouts > and there are several encounters in the game which are no where near > trivialized by that. Try killing the Evil Masters, or Eureca commanded by Gothwolte. I have a lvl 100 fighter on metalforge, and I still can't kill Eureca without quaffing 25 healing potions and dying once. [snip] > The new spell stacking code i think creates a huge difference between > the different classes, err races, classes dont really matter much. > Although they did kinda ruin the wizard class for me personaly =( Oh, you mean like stacked holy possession, stacked armour, etc.? Yeah, ancient pupland is a LOT harder without stacked holy poss. I find it pretty much impossible to kill the Evil Masters without using cheesy tactics like holy orbs in directors. With the current armor enchantment limits, I can only get up to -35 ac, and these beasts have wc -100. > And i can asume that you meant 'of Devourers' and not lythander right? > I do agree that the death attack is really overpowered in most places, > but then again it does nothing at all if your not high enough lvl. > And it not working on weapons with slaying is kinda lousy if you ask me... I think something screwy is happening with the death attacktype. I have a weapon which has a death attacktype, and it works fine; but as soon as it gets a slaying field from the altar, it's unable to deathstrike anything except monsters of that race. So now I've to be very careful not to wield it while praying on the altar. > Praying to regain mana? Again i will make an asumption that you mean grace > since thats what praying is for. Monks have the meditation skill, which can regenerate mana the same way praying regenerates grace. [snip] > Mana regen on the other hand isnt bad at all with the proper stuff, I'd > suggest you get your little wizard over to the tower of magi and get > yourself the midnight robe and staff of magi and those. they rock! Yep. Wizards used to suck BIG time, back when max mana regen is 1sp/tick. Nowadays I can easily get 5-8sp/tick with wizard hat, midnight robe, staff of magi, and rings of elrond and mithrandir, etc.. > And as for armor. I thought the item_power thingy had taken care of that > rather decently? Atleast i found that several highend items no longer > could be enchanter like before, hardly at all even. [snip] While the item_power thingy is good for preventing over-powered low-level characters, it really sucks for high-level characters. Ancient pupland is just about *impossible* with these restrictions, unless the monsters are toned down a bit. Also, it kinda sucks if a low-level character managed to think of a clever way to get a high-level item, only to find that he cannot use it because the item_power is set too high. But I guess it can be argued both ways, and I'll have to actually play on a server that enforces item_power to judge how well it's working. T -- Windows 95 was a joke, and Windows 98 was the punchline. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 15:49:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: References: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20030625224950.28d75c26.scachi@gmx.de> Magnus Kronhamn wrote:88 > And i can asume that you meant 'of Devourers' and not lythander right? > I do agree that the death attack is really overpowered in most places, > but then again it does nothing at all if your not high enough lvl. > And it not working on weapons with slaying is kinda lousy if you ask me... I meant 'of Devourers', you are right. Then this game realy misses some realy highlevel areas, where I have problems to fight through. > Mana regen on the other hand isnt bad at all with the proper stuff, I'd > suggest you get your little wizard over to the tower of magi and get > yourself the midnight robe and staff of magi and those. they rock! Hm, never get in there. This Area is one of the few I haven't played yet. I think I'll start a character on metalforge for some new fun :-) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 15:56:02 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030625205602.GB8376@crystal> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 01:34:52PM -0700, Tim Rightnour wrote: > > On 25-Jun-03 Magnus Kronhamn wrote: > > Praying to regain mana? > > No, sadly that works.. because prayer forces a do_some_living, rapid prayer > can regenerate you faster than just sitting there. [snip] Ohhhh, right, how did that slip my mind. :-) I always use that method to regenerate mana in the battlefield: cast redundant protection spells (like fire/cold, which are already in use) to reduce grace, then pray to "pump" my mana. Somebody should clean up the speed code, though... the current code is very complex, and full of strange conditions. One nasty one is when you're carrying stuff at maximum capacity, but if you kill a monster in your path, your speed changes from crawling to weapon speed, which is very fast. Then there's the recently reported container bug (which I believe has been fixed?) where doing certain sequences of apply container will give you a very big speed boost until you next hit something or equip/unequip something that changes your (weapon) speed. T -- Music critic: "That's an imitation fugue!" _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 15:58:21 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: <20030625224950.28d75c26.scachi@gmx.de> References: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> <20030625224950.28d75c26.scachi@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20030625205821.GC8376@crystal> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:49:50PM +0200, scachi@gmx.de wrote: > Magnus Kronhamn wrote:88 > > > And i can asume that you meant 'of Devourers' and not lythander right? > > I do agree that the death attack is really overpowered in most places, > > but then again it does nothing at all if your not high enough lvl. > > And it not working on weapons with slaying is kinda lousy if you ask me... > I meant 'of Devourers', you are right. > Then this game realy misses some realy highlevel areas, where I have > problems to fight through. [snip] Try ancient pupland. Guaranteed you won't be able to make it through without some serious strategic thinking. Some monsters may be outright impossible for certain character classes (like the Evil Masters, see my other message). T -- The peace of mind--from knowing that viruses which exploit Microsoft system vulnerabilities cannot touch Linux--is priceless. -- Frustrated system administrator. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 15:59:53 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: <20030625205033.GA8376@crystal> References: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> <20030625205033.GA8376@crystal> Message-ID: > > The new spell stacking code i think creates a huge difference between > > the different classes, err races, classes dont really matter much. > > Although they did kinda ruin the wizard class for me personaly =( > > Oh, you mean like stacked holy possession, stacked armour, etc.? Yeah, > ancient pupland is a LOT harder without stacked holy poss. I find it > pretty much impossible to kill the Evil Masters without using cheesy > tactics like holy orbs in directors. With the current armor enchantment > limits, I can only get up to -35 ac, and these beasts have wc -100. Actually i ment stacking stat buffs, used to be able to cast strength etc untill you had 30 in all your combat stats and rock on with a wizard to. > Also, it kinda sucks if a low-level character managed to think of a clever > way to get a high-level item, only to find that he cannot use it because > the item_power is set too high. But I guess it can be argued both ways, > and I'll have to actually play on a server that enforces item_power to > judge how well it's working. Actually i dont think we have item_power activated on our local server as you describe it, can wear a total itempower way above what it says you should be able to. But it, or something else?, still effects if you can use enchant armor scrolls on your item instead of having every item go to +10 like it did before // mak _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 16:05:49 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: References: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> <20030625205033.GA8376@crystal> Message-ID: <20030625210549.GA8682@crystal> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:59:53PM +0200, Magnus Kronhamn wrote: [snip] > Actually i ment stacking stat buffs, used to be able to cast strength etc > untill you had 30 in all your combat stats and rock on with a wizard to. Ahhh, I see. [snip] > Actually i dont think we have item_power activated on our local server > as you describe it, can wear a total itempower way above what it says > you should be able to. > But it, or something else?, still effects if you can use enchant armor > scrolls on your item instead of having every item go to +10 like it did > before [snip] Oh, I think that's just a new limit introduced to armor enchantments. The maximum enchantment is now +5, instead of +10 (or +12) like before. Also, there seems to be a new restriction on what kinds of armor can be enchanted; I find that cloaks cannot be enchanted at all. (Well, cloaks of protection, at least. Enchanting non-magical cloaks seems to be pretty useless, since it doesn't affect your ac.) T -- Why is a river rich? 'cos it has two banks. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 16:08:49 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: <20030625224950.28d75c26.scachi@gmx.de> References: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> <20030625224950.28d75c26.scachi@gmx.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 scachi@gmx.de wrote: > Magnus Kronhamn wrote:88 > > > And i can asume that you meant 'of Devourers' and not lythander right? > > I do agree that the death attack is really overpowered in most places, > > but then again it does nothing at all if your not high enough lvl. > > And it not working on weapons with slaying is kinda lousy if you ask me... > I meant 'of Devourers', you are right. > Then this game realy misses some realy highlevel areas, where I have problems to > fight through. I think a solution might be to up the lvl on alot of mobs, ie without actually making them any harder otherwise, or adding partial death resistances more often. I mean standard mobs like dragons and even balrogs etc arent more then lvl20 or so right? Kinda silly that only the really bigass bosses are of a decent level and 99% of the game dont even have a chance of resisting a death atack from a lvl100 char. // mak _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 16:11:21 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: <20030625205602.GB8376@crystal> References: <20030625205602.GB8376@crystal> Message-ID: > Somebody should clean up the speed code, though... the current code is > very complex, and full of strange conditions. One nasty one is when you're > carrying stuff at maximum capacity, but if you kill a monster in your > path, your speed changes from crawling to weapon speed, which is very > fast. Then there's the recently reported container bug (which I believe > has been fixed?) where doing certain sequences of apply container will > give you a very big speed boost until you next hit something or > equip/unequip something that changes your (weapon) speed. Container bug? I would say that sounds more like a general apply bug... When reading up the hundreds of scrolls for literacy xp after a hunt you can see your speed jumping up and down like crazy. // mak _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Jun 25 16:25:22 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: References: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> <20030625224950.28d75c26.scachi@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20030625212522.GA8821@crystal> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:08:49PM +0200, Magnus Kronhamn wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 scachi@gmx.de wrote: > > > Magnus Kronhamn wrote:88 > > > > > And i can asume that you meant 'of Devourers' and not lythander right? > > > I do agree that the death attack is really overpowered in most places, > > > but then again it does nothing at all if your not high enough lvl. > > > And it not working on weapons with slaying is kinda lousy if you ask me... > > I meant 'of Devourers', you are right. > > Then this game realy misses some realy highlevel areas, where I have problems to > > fight through. > > I think a solution might be to up the lvl on alot of mobs, ie without > actually making them any harder otherwise, or adding partial death > resistances more often. > I mean standard mobs like dragons and even balrogs etc arent more then > lvl20 or so right? That's quite true... I think the level values for many monsters are really not an accurate estimate of the monster's difficulty. Balrogs are notoriously hard to kill even for a level 30 character, if you don't have the right equipment. And Jessy's arch has only level 30, when Jessy is MUCH tougher than a balrog. Some of these values should definitely be bumped up a bit. OTOH, any Valriel priest will find balrogs and Jessy's very easy to kill, which makes a higher level setting seem inappropriate. > Kinda silly that only the really bigass bosses are of a decent level and > 99% of the game dont even have a chance of resisting a death atack from a > lvl100 char. [snip] Yeah, there are those "regular" tough monsters which are only around level 30 or so (greater demon is level 40, which seems more appropriate), then there is a glaring gap past the 40 level, and at the very top, you have the ancient pupland monsters like the Evil masters, who are level 105 and above. We could definitely do with more monsters to fill in the gaps. But I think we should seriously consider bumping up the current tough monsters, and introduce *lower* level monsters to fill in the gaps instead. There seems to be another glaring gap of monster levels below the big demons: there are a great variety of low-level monsters less than level 12, then a gap until level 25-ish which is only scantily filled with dragons, and then the cluster of level 30 big demons. We really should have a more even distribution in the archs, IMHO. T -- Creativity is not an excuse for sloppiness. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 00:22:59 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor Message-ID: <002501c33c6c$2cb80da0$0a02a8c0@kameria> OK, here are some recent thoughts about maps and elevation and weather and local effects and what have you. First about the weather. The issues I have with using the existing weather code which requires an elevaiton value in every ground tile on the world maps are: 1. it is not maintainable in a meaningful way - meaning that possibly you can keep the original values the map was generated with but this isn't valuble if you make changes to the context (like if you add a swamp or a river it will not be reflected accuratly by the elevation information in the weather system. The other options are editing the elevations by hand (never happen) or scripting an intelligent elevation generator. 2. it requires all other possible map sets to have meaningful elevation generated before the weather can work. 3. The bigworld maps were generated with a simple elevation:arch assignment which means most arches fall into simplistic elevation ranges where landscape only occurs in one range - there aren't deserts or lakes in the mountians or forests below sea level or swamps in highland areas at or the like. So what about it? Well I think it could be better with not a huge amount of change. a I would suggest that the elevation actually be generated from the maps on demand when there are significant changes (something like running './crossfire -E' perhaps?) , and this be stored in a set of elevation maps (just a set of 'maps' which store x,y coords and the elevation). Each world map would be assigned an average elevation (so if you created your own worldmaps you would only have to plot the base elevation each map) and a script would generate sensible elevation for each map tile based on the arch information. Fixing the map editor to generate intelligent elevation would require an approach like this anyway, but this way you could generate elevation for any set of maps given the map base elevations. Then when the weather system actually runs the elevation for that tile can point to the elevation maps, to find the elevation rather than reading it out of the arch directly. It seems indirect, but this would totally solve all three issues (I don't know what type of issues you would have with elevation pointing to a different file but the elevation would be easy to reference since it uses the same coordinate system, but it seems reasonable- is this a linked list?). You could even possibly go further and have weather operate on a larger map than the play map by generating more elevation. On a side note, it would be neat if the client could automatically run the weather command every so often to let people know the temperature and stuff is like - perhaps only when the player is outside and with a setting to turn it off of course... My second more speculative thought comes from my goofing around with making objects for housing and points raised by David Seikel about having local area effects on mana and hp and stuff. I really didn't like the idea of haveing more things in the arches like the elevation hardcoded in the arches to manage, but I was thinking of having a way to indicate that a tile 'belonged' to something else (a local entity, a city, an area effect). I also needed to be able to make a subclass of exit that was unique (not in the apartment way, but in the item way) and that belonged to someone (or a guild or a religion). Well the race field comes to mind here, it would be neat to use race for ground (and for other arches possibly) to indicated it belongs to *something*, this something would be of course an other object with it's own arch. An example would ge a forest where many or all the ground tiles belonged to a "Dark FOrest" arch and these arches would inherit some properties form the dark forest arch (like slower movement, or damage or faster mana renegeration...) This could be an atlernative way (less cluttered) to do no_magic and cursed ground as well, define then as an property of the parent arch to be inherited. It could be used to define the area of a town by setting a 'town' object as the race of it's land (the town object could also be put into NPC inventory...) This belongingness concept doesn't necessarily have to be confined to ground tiles, it would be a neat way to actually do player races (the races would become arches in this case), but this would be a larger type of change than I should be advocating at this time... Fire away. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 26 23:53:52 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] gtk splash screen In-Reply-To: <20030625172447.7488.qmail@emc.com> References: <20030625172447.7488.qmail@emc.com> Message-ID: <3EFBCDE0.7060005@sonic.net> Preston Crow wrote: > > As to displaying it in the map window when not connected to a server, > that's a great idea, but that would take more work. I expect we would need > a different logo for it to fit right with the default map size. Simple thing would be to just center whatever logo in the center of the screen. mapsize will vary depending on player defaults, so there is no way to have a graphic that fits everything, other than to have something that looks ok depending on how it is sized (eg, if you had a background of a map, chopping portions of it would be just like what would happen depending on the players map size settings.) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Jun 26 23:55:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <20030625104455.74832.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030625104455.74832.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3EFBCE54.204@sonic.net> David Seikel wrote: >>tend to guess that it is the loading/saving of maps which is going to be >>the major performance hit on the server site - and communicating what is >>on the map frm the server to client and back again. > > > Since the WG is just another client, the server only needs to send the > usual info to it, no performance hit there. Sending info back again would > bog down the server, if it was a large lump of info. With the current > weather resolution, it won't be a large lump. I am trying to cut it down > to only the info needed for the map the WG is currently on. > Ok. You explanation makes sense. As said, it sort of depended on what your goal of the WG was. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 01:47:26 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor In-Reply-To: <002501c33c6c$2cb80da0$0a02a8c0@kameria> References: <002501c33c6c$2cb80da0$0a02a8c0@kameria> Message-ID: <3EFBE87E.8000606@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: I agree the current method for elevation is not very good. > > So what about it? Well I think it could be better with not a huge amount of > change. a I would suggest that the elevation actually be generated from the > maps on demand when there are significant changes (something like running > './crossfire -E' perhaps?) , and this be stored in a set of elevation maps > (just a set of 'maps' which store x,y coords and the elevation). Each world > map would be assigned an average elevation (so if you created your own > worldmaps you would only have to plot the base elevation each map) and a > script would generate sensible elevation for each map tile based on the arch > information. Fixing the map editor to generate intelligent elevation would > require an approach like this anyway, but this way you could generate > elevation for any set of maps given the map base elevations. It would be trivial to add a field to the map header like 'map_elevation'. It would also be easy to populate the archetypes with 'sane' elevation values (mountains are 5000 feet or whatever). I'm unclear on the idea of dumping the elevation to a file - why dump it at all then - if this is automatically generated, which is likely to overwrite existing data, why not just have the weather system itself say 'map elevation 1234, this is forest, so I should ...) If these other elevation files are supposed to be maintained, I then really wonder how likely that is to happen. Map makers making changes may not be aware of them. And as said, if this is just holding generated data, why not have the weather system itself generate that data? Maybe I'm missing something there. > On a side note, it would be neat if the client could automatically run the > weather command every so often to let people know the temperature and stuff > is like - perhaps only when the player is outside and with a setting to turn > it off of course... It'd be much easier for the server to 'push' this information if it is desired. The client requesting it is sure to get a bunch of bogus data (requesting it while indoors for example). It'd be easy to have some record of last time server told this information to client, and if that time has elapsed, and the player is on an appropraite map, send the data. This would have the other effect that if a player was indoor for a while and stepped outdoor, they'd get a near immediate update. One could easily see expanding this to be non textual, eg, client display a little weather symbol like found in newspapers (sunny, cloudy, rain, snow, etc), an icon representation of time (sun moves across the sky, then the moon) as well as other relevant data (moonphase?) > Well the race field comes to mind here, it would be > neat to use race for ground (and for other arches possibly) to indicated it > belongs to *something*, this something would be of course an other object > with it's own arch. I have no issue with the race (or other text field not likely to be used for ground) to represent some form of belonging, which other objects/code may then check for various meaning (eg, player is on lythanders forest, and this script cares about it and does something special). > An example would ge a forest where many or all the > ground tiles belonged to a "Dark FOrest" arch and these arches would inherit > some properties form the dark forest arch (like slower movement, or damage > or faster mana renegeration...) I disagree about that - first, such a lookup would be very inefficient (have to translate name to an archetype, which is a relative costly operation). But more to the point is I don't think it is a good approach - it would be confusing (why is my forest arch not getting the values I set in the editor?) and probably create other issues - someone changes the definition of that 'race' for his forest, and some other space someplace else was using it because it was convenient, and that now breaks. I can't see any good reason not to just put the relevant adjustments in the object. If it would be used alot, conceivable to make an archetype out of it. I generally don't like a bunch of surplus archs that are used just one place, but this description doesn't match this - this would be an archetype used for a large swath of land. > This could be an atlernative way (less > cluttered) to do no_magic and cursed ground as well, define then as an > property of the parent arch to be inherited. Not sure what you mean by 'less cluttered'. If you are talking about needing to have 2 objects on a space to be non magic (ground + actual no magic arch), that isn't strictly true. That is just the preferred map design method - it makes it abundantly clear where no magic areas exist. One could just as easily modify the appropriate ground and set the no_magic and other fields and have that space be no magic without need for another object. But that makes it be a real pain if someone is trying to look at the map later - they now need to click on each object to see what its properties may be. For this reason, it is generally preferred not to overlay too many meanings on an object. Eg, instead of changing the face of the 'exit' object to be a forest, just put an invis exit on that space - much easier to deal with than figuring otu that space that looks like all the other one actually has an exit. With the java editor, and the filters it has, this isn't so much an issue. One could obviously extend that to 'show no magic' and 'show unholy ground', as well as other 'common' things like that. > It could be used to define the > area of a town by setting a 'town' object as the race of it's land (the town > object could also be put into NPC inventory...) > This belongingness concept doesn't necessarily have to be confined to ground > tiles, it would be a neat way to actually do player races (the races would > become arches in this case), but this would be a larger type of change than > I should be advocating at this time... Well, I have no problem with regions, and players belong to regions, and using some way to mark the region. And based on that region, some things get adjusted (eg, if you don't belong to a region, you get higher prices - taht is actually easy to do, and doesn't actually care what the region is). I do have issues with region pulling in attributes of hte objects - if necessary, make regional archetypes for grass, forest, etc, but less not have normal arch's get changed based on the region they belong to. One thing which I would be willing to entertain is default map values. Eg, a special object on the map (or map header) which says the defaults. thus, you could put the object like: object map_default region scorn slow_penalty 1 ... end Now the only issue would be what to do if an object already has an attribute set. I'd think you'd have to keep with the one on the map object and not default - that is more narrowly defined (single object) vs a default. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 02:03:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Follower of Lythander - to good weapon In-Reply-To: <20030625205033.GA8376@crystal> References: <20030625182208.2ed0645b.scachi@gmx.de> <20030625205033.GA8376@crystal> Message-ID: <3EFBEC42.1060802@sonic.net> I'm going to briefly address a bunch of points at once: 1) I agree the speed stuff is screwed up. I had put out a proposal a while back which would narrow the range of speed (min 0.25, max 0.75, but magic could adjust that). Haven't got around to doing it yet. 2) Slaying and death attacks: This is an odd one. There are objects like arrows of assassinating X, which have the death attack. You only want it to be able to kill X, and not any old monster. That is where the code of 'is slaying is set, and this is a death attack, only work on monsters this slays'. Not perfect, but I don't have a good alternative. Arguably, death attacks without slaying should just be disallowed as potentially overpowering/abusive. 3) Looking at level 100+ characters and saying they are too powerful isn't a great test IMO. I've played many commercial games, and if you advance the characters to where the limit is, the final battles are often very easy. 4) A bunch of monsters levels probably need re-adjustment. The max level of crossfire keeps getting adjusted, and I'm sure many monsters have not been kept up to date. IMO, there are perhaps too many levels in crossfire, which creates large gaps of monster power. Those gaps really need to get filled in. 5) I'd be easy enough to modify the pray skill so you get more grace the higher level you are (perhaps 1 grace/level you have, or something like it?) 6) There is lots of cruft left over from various times - crossfire is probably more generous than most any other game about still letting players keep using old characters. The problem here is those old characters could have things that existed from before the rules were put in place. I think the item_power for the character in question is such a case - the character may have gotten started from before each enchantment increase item_power by 1. 7) item_power: more tuning may be needed, but I expect it to be on by default in the 2.0 release. IMO, some of the idea of item power is an additional way to tuen items. For example, this sword may clearly be the best sword in the game, but if its item_power is 35, and you have another sword of item_power 25 which isn't quite as good, that other sword is starting to look a lot more interesting. As the code is without item power, decisions are almost very easy - this one does more damage/more bonuses than the other one, so I'll use it. 8) almost certainly some maps may also need to get re-adjusted as code changes are made that make the players life more difficult. The game tends to be evolving, and this require that all pieces continue to evolve. 9) I do agree that the characters may look a bit alike. However, with version 2.0, each skill has its own exp total. It'd certainly be possible for players to still get all the skills, but presumably the may be a bit more focused (and being the best person to use a sword will no longer also make you an expert in firing a bow for example). However, I consider making skills to hard to gain or two different based on if it is a 'class' skill or 'non class' a mixed bag. On the one hand, it means the classes/races are much more different - dwarves have an easier time of blacksmithing than anyone else. OTOH, it could mean a player spends a bunch of time playing and then realizes he is sort of screwed becausehe does need skill XYZ and just can't get very good at it. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 02:19:16 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor In-Reply-To: <002501c33c6c$2cb80da0$0a02a8c0@kameria> Message-ID: <20030627071916.77046.qmail@web21309.mail.yahoo.com> I think I mentioned before, I now agree with your new elevation idea. > On a side note, it would be neat if the client could automatically run > the weather command every so often to let people know the temperature and > stuff is like - perhaps only when the player is outside and with a setting > to turn it off of course... I seem to remember there is a DM comand to get the current weather for the tile you are on. No idea why it is DM only, should fix that first, then a client could just use the command every so often. > neat to use race for ground (and for other arches possibly) to indicated > it belongs to *something*, this something would be of course an other > object with it's own arch. Exactly the sort of thing I need for my maps to make a major reduction in their rather bloated size. Would have made them a lot easier to build too B-). For the same reason, I would go one step further, either allow belonging to many arches (multiple inheritance B-) ) or allow a chain of belonging. After a moments thought, both would be good, but multiple inheritance would be more usefull to me. While we are speculating about floors, there are monster movers, and player movers, but no inanimate object movers. If we complete the set, I can finally finish the rotating restuarant in my castle. Without an inanimate object mover, the furniture stays still while the patrons move around in circles. Then all I have to worry about is getting them all in synch. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 02:27:57 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor In-Reply-To: <3EFBE87E.8000606@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20030627072757.36996.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Wedel wrote: > (mountains are 5000 feet or whatever). Which brings up a good question. What units is elevation in? Feet or meters? (On a side note, while I already knew that USA was officially metric like the rest of the world, I only recently found out that they have been metric since 1866! I do wish that someone would tell US citizens that.) http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 06:17:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor In-Reply-To: <20030627072757.36996.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030627072757.36996.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200306271317.20906.yann.chachkoff@myrealbox.com> Le Vendredi 27 Juin 2003 09:27, David Seikel a ?crit : > --- Mark Wedel wrote: > > (mountains are 5000 feet or whatever). > > Which brings up a good question. What units is elevation in? Feet or > meters? > I suggest we use the Imperial Kir as the base unit to make everybody equally happy. For those that do not know the measure system of the Old Empire, here's a quick summary: 1 UruKir (UK) = 1/10 FK 1 FaroKir (FK) = 1/10 DK 1 DereKir (DK) = 1/10 Kir 1 Kir = 15.02 cm (base unit) 1 AdoKir (AK) = 10 Kirs 1 InoKir (IK) = 10 AK 1 GenaKir (GK) = 10 IK 1 HartaKir (HK) = 10 HK The older Republican Mile is sometimes used. 1 mile = 2/3 HK. (If you prefer a 'cartesian' answer: to prevent endless discussions about using MKSA or Imperial (ie miles, feets, etc) Units, I suggest using a Fantasy measurement unit. Besides that, I suppose that the people living in the CF world would have never heard about our own systems) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 09:55:00 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor In-Reply-To: <3EFBE87E.8000606@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 27-Jun-03 Mark Wedel wrote: > It would be trivial to add a field to the map header like 'map_elevation'. > It > would also be easy to populate the archetypes with 'sane' elevation values > (mountains are 5000 feet or whatever). The problem with putting it in the header, is that you end up with a granularity of 50x50, which is even less than the weathermap tiles. While we could put it in the arch tiles themselves, I think that will lose precision.. for example, if a forest is allways 3000, you don't get any forests rising out of a valley into a snowline. Also.. I still plan on making fully dynamicly generated worlds working.. If you wreck the precision of the elevation, that becomes impossible. > If these other elevation files are supposed to be maintained, I then really > wonder how likely that is to happen. Map makers making changes may not be > aware > of them. And as said, if this is just holding generated data, why not have > the > weather system itself generate that data? Maybe I'm missing something there. I realize the elevation is annoying to maintain.. But I don't think reducing the precision of the elevation stat is the right way to fix this. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 09:57:16 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor In-Reply-To: <20030627071916.77046.qmail@web21309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 27-Jun-03 David Seikel wrote: > I seem to remember there is a DM comand to get the current weather for the > tile you are on. No idea why it is DM only, should fix that first, then a > client could just use the command every so often. It's not DM only.. it just tells the Dm the gory details, while telling the player the game view. Like the time command. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 22:30:27 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor (elevation) References: <002501c33c6c$2cb80da0$0a02a8c0@kameria> <3EFBE87E.8000606@sonic.net> Message-ID: <001801c33d25$9f72efe0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Mark said: > > It would be trivial to add a field to the map header like 'map_elevation'. It > would also be easy to populate the archetypes with 'sane' elevation values > (mountains are 5000 feet or whatever). Putting set elevations for arches isn't optimal IMHO (besides then you wouldn't it be better to set up a list of values to look up rather then carry the value in the arch (mountain: 5000). The thing is this method ignores relativity - a forest or a lake or a desert on an map with an elevation of 15000 ft should be possible even desirable. Also, I can't see setting a default elevation for arches like floors and stuff. I can picture a routine similar to the way the maps were generated but inside out, where the map base elevations are loaded plotting out a wireframe of the world, then the script finds large groups of arches, plots the middle elevation values of these groups based on the wireframe base elevations and size of the groupings and type of arch and then does this with smaller groups of arches then again with smaller groups ... then builds up more detailed slope informain for the points in between based on the remaining differences. You could use this routine for any world map you like, you could generate another map like bigworld was generated then calculate the average elevations per map and run this script to make the landscape more relative or you could design a world by hand with a rough elevation model (one point per map) and run this to generate a detailed elevatons for you... Also this way you wouldn't have small changes like adding roads or other 'human made changes' (remove the forest arch add a flagstone arch...) require a elevation be changed at all. > > I'm unclear on the idea of dumping the elevation to a file - why dump it at > all then - if this is automatically generated, which is likely to overwrite > existing data, why not just have the weather system itself say 'map elevation > 1234, this is forest, so I should ...) Well i thought that that would be too labour intensive to constantly generate this informaion since it does not change during play - I don't see a need to run the elevation generation routine very often, only when there are major changes to the world map (a new mountain pass, a new lake...large forest or desert created.) The running weather code merely needs to check the elevation of a tile, not modify it. Putting the elevation in a file is just to seperate the per tile elevation from the map to make it mainatainable. I assumed it would be wasteful to store these values in memory and thought it would be pretty easy to have a file or set of files to reference instead (these weather maps could be generated every release or so and shipped out with the worldmaps incidentally to avoid people having to generate them unless they make changes). Really this isn't so much a change to the weather system as it is a change to the initial weather map build routine. It also makes it easy to generate new elevation maps for other areas (perhaps you want to generate an elevation map for the eighth plane of hell map set you are working on...) Also all the other weather maps are generated and stored (humidity, pressure, average elevation), so this would follow with that idea - there is not much use in regeneratin these if the maps havent changed and they should be regenerated if it has changed significantly. > > If these other elevation files are supposed to be maintained, I then really > wonder how likely that is to happen. Map makers making changes may not be aware > of them. And as said, if this is just holding generated data, why not have the > weather system itself generate that data? Maybe I'm missing something there. > That is the point of doing this in the firstplace so that that mapmakers don't have to be concerned/aware of this at all. The weahter system can run almost as it does now except that instead of reading elevation from the worldmaps it can read them from it's elevation map. There would be no changes to the editor and mapmaking procedure at all and little change to the existing weather code. The only difference is that when the world maps are changed enough to warrent a fresh set of data the serveradmin could run the command (script?) to regenerate the elevations so that the wetaher map can reflect these changes. This should be done now anyway now to pickup other arch information such as water percentages for the humidity maps so it is just an extention of existing methods. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Jun 27 21:11:07 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor References: Message-ID: <11836.1056766267@www49.gmx.net> Tim Rightnour wrote: > > The problem with putting it in the header, is that you end up with > a granularity of 50x50, which is even less than the weathermap tiles. > [...] > Also.. I still plan on making fully dynamicly generated worlds working.. > If you wreck the precision of the elevation, that becomes impossible. The underlying problem with elevations is the fact that the worldmaps are not random, and the fact that people really want to edit the worldmaps. Personally I dislike randomization of maps in most any form, and past discussions have shown that I'm not alone with this opinion. Randomization gets you a lot of quantity, but never quality. Hence, I'm not in favour of preserving a broken elevation system for the doubtable feature of "dynamically generated worlds". I'd like to have "hand-made" worldmaps in the long run, and a weather system dealing with that in a reasonable kind of way. Well, just my opinion. AndreasV -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ Bitte l?cheln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage! _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 28 00:18:43 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor (elevation) In-Reply-To: <001801c33d25$9f72efe0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> References: <002501c33c6c$2cb80da0$0a02a8c0@kameria> <3EFBE87E.8000606@sonic.net> <001801c33d25$9f72efe0$0802a8c0@KAMERIA> Message-ID: <3EFD2533.1010305@sonic.net> Going to quickly sum up various bits. Elevation - I can see that putting it in the header does not give high enough granularity. What I see looking at the code is that the elevation map is 100x100. So one could put 4 values into the map header and keep the same resolution. Not that I'm really saying this should be done, this is just a note. I would argue that if the worldmap is expanded, the sizes of the relative tables should get re-adjusted for the extra tiles, and not have everything get skewed. I'd guess that those current elevations (100x100) are done by averaging the effected squares? Thus, you can't really have a low valley within the mountains, because the surrounding terrain would average it too high. I guess that is OK. And I suppose that if we only want to store those 100 values, that is fine. I just think they'd be more meaningful if more directly associated with the map. After all, in practice, map makers do not need to download the server, so to say that some server fild would also need to get updated seems a little odd. randomized world maps: Well, it started of as randomized just to give a jumpstart to the process. I think as we see time pass, the bigworld will more and more get customized, to some extent such that it will be mostly hand done. As far as what the elevation stuff is in, when I first did it, I was thinking feet. While it would be fine to describe it as whatever, I think it would be useful as developers to be able to map it easily into earth measurements, so if someone says that is 1000', you could more easily grasp what that really means. More on regions: As I thought about it, this is certainly not something that should get overloaded onto any existing value. For example, it could be nice to associate a monster with a region, so it won't wander to places outside of that region (for example, you could have a greater_scorn region and city_scorn region - have random monsters of appropriate level that will wander the greater_scorn area, but not wander into the city_scorn area (likewise, if you have guards/townsfolks in city_scorn, they won't wander into the greater_scorn area). Likewise, you could then have a 'remote' region - areas far away from otehr things - monsters may wander all throughout that remote region, but won't go into the greater_scorn region, keep safer areas for lower level players. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 28 01:43:12 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor (elevation) In-Reply-To: <3EFD2533.1010305@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 28-Jun-03 Mark Wedel wrote: > Elevation - I can see that putting it in the header does not give high > enough > granularity. What I see looking at the code is that the elevation map is > 100x100. So one could put 4 values into the map header and keep the same > resolution. Not that I'm really saying this should be done, this is just a > note. I would argue that if the worldmap is expanded, the sizes of the > relative > tables should get re-adjusted for the extra tiles, and not have everything > get > skewed. The problem is.. the 100x100 thing is only used a a speed hack.. The weather engine really and truly does use the elevation of every single square to determine the weather on that square. If you reduce the granularity to 100x100 it will break the weather. > randomized world maps: Well, it started of as randomized just to give a > jumpstart to the process. I think as we see time pass, the bigworld will > more > and more get customized, to some extent such that it will be mostly hand > done. I understand some people don't like fully random maps. Thats perfectly fine. I have no intention of forcing anyone to use them. But I would like to be able to set a setting and have them occur. If you set the elevation of the worldmaps to a 100x100 grid, not only do you break the weather, but you also break my ability to do fully random maps. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 28 04:36:40 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor (elevation) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200306281136.42440.yann.chachkoff@myrealbox.com> Some thoughts... Le Samedi 28 Juin 2003 08:43, Tim Rightnour a ?crit : > The problem is.. the 100x100 thing is only used a a speed hack.. The real question to ask is: is there are real performance bottleneck when handling elevation on a square-by-square basis ? If the answer is 'yes', then there is no debate to have - the system would need to be simplified somewhat or the algorithms used would have to be improved. A 100x100 low granularity matrix is just a speed hack indeed; but if speed becomes an issue, it is worth considering it. > The weather engine really and truly does use the elevation of every single > square to determine the weather on that square. Maybe a question to consider in that case is: can't the weather be computed using larger grid elements, for example 10x10 squares ? The weather would still be precise enough, but computing time would be reduced somewhat. I doubt a square-level granularity is really needed given the apparent scale of the bigworld map. >If you reduce the > granularity to 100x100 it will break the weather. > That I don't understand. Quite certainly, the computation results will appear more 'uniform' on a given elevation zone. There's no algorithmic reason preventing the weather system to use such a matrix (of course, the current code would have to be adapted to query a 100x100 elevation map instead of the current one; but that's mostly trivial). Now if that means that such uniformization of the elevation grid would result in a too uniform weather system, then it means that other factors do not have enough influence in the global result. In that case, the weather algorithms probably need quite some improvements. > I understand some people don't like fully random maps. Thats perfectly > fine. I have no intention of forcing anyone to use them. But I would like > to be able to set a setting and have them occur. I don't understand the goal of doing this for the worldmap. The worldmap by itself is just a way to bind all quests and locations together in a coherent way. The worldmap isn't seen as a quest by itself. What would be the purpose of such a system ? Is it worth sacrificing speed on commonly used parts of the code for it ? >If you set the elevation > of the worldmaps to a 100x100 grid, not only do you break the weather, but > you also break my ability to do fully random maps. > Note that the idea of a '100x100' grid can quite certainly be adapted to use a dynamically allocated matrix instead, which could be expanded on the fly. Or the elevation could simply become a tag in the map structure itself. > --- > Tim Rightnour > NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ > NetBSD supported hardware database: > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 28 14:38:09 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor (elevation) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EFDEEA1.3070506@sonic.net> Ok. I think I have a decent understanding of all this - we need elevation for every space. However, tracking that then becomes very difficult, because elevation is lost if you edit a space. And I can now see that dealing with this properly is difficult. Certainly the approach is use the elevation for which spaces it exists, and interpolate the elevation for the missing spaces works. It wouldn't be hard to make elevation much easier to get (just like mapflags (blocked, alive, etc) are stored in the MapSpace structure, one could copy the elevation into that, so one doesn't need to search the objects for the elevation (although, probably not a really big gain on that, since there aren't many objects per space anyways - its just a lot easier to code something like GET_MAP_ELEVATION(map, x+1, y)) However, one thing I have learned through my years with crossfire is computing values should be seen as a last resort - it almost never gives as good as a result as desired. As an aside, it would be cool for elevation to actually play a role in line of sight. Thus, instead of mountains just blocking view, they have elevation - if you are of lower elevation, you can't see through them, but if you are on the highest mountain, you'd get quite a nice view. Doing this probably wouldn't be that hard, but probably really need to store the elevation in the map cell to make this at all efficient). Could also make fly much more interesting (fly up to see more). Anyways, to me, the ideal solution would seem to be to keep in the object itself. We apparantly have scripts that will backfill elevation data - presumably, these scripts can be/are smart enough to only fill in spaces where elevation has been removed, and not to write over elevation for spaces player explicity sets. What's the problem of using these? It seems much simpler than writing a new system to deal with this, especially because the tool is already in place. Presumably, it wouldn't be hard to also make these have a little bit of logic (eg, the area on this map in spaces x,y -> x1, y1 shouldn't be backfilled, but instead of an elevation of 1200 ? 200 ft, to mimic variation in landscape. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Jun 28 18:13:38 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor (elevation) In-Reply-To: <200306281136.42440.yann.chachkoff@myrealbox.com> References: <200306281136.42440.yann.chachkoff@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <3EFE2122.1020503@sympatico.ca> > > >Maybe a question to consider in that case is: can't the weather be computed >using larger grid elements, for example 10x10 squares ? The weather would >still be precise enough, but computing time would be reduced somewhat. I >doubt a square-level granularity is really needed given the apparent scale of >the bigworld map. > I don't advocate changing the resolution or the way the weather actually runs in game. I think having an elevation value for each tile is reasonable, but just should not be stored in the arch so that map makers don't have to deal with it. Computing time wouldn't really be an issue here since this computing would not be done while the server (game part anyway) is running. The weather map generation is already a long routine since it must examine each arch anyway to generate humidity and pressure maps. >>I understand some people don't like fully random maps. Thats perfectly >>fine. I have no intention of forcing anyone to use them. But I would like >>to be able to set a setting and have them occur. >> >> > >I don't understand the goal of doing this for the worldmap. The worldmap by >itself is just a way to bind all quests and locations together in a coherent >way. The worldmap isn't seen as a quest by itself. What would be the purpose >of such a system ? Is it worth sacrificing speed on commonly used parts of >the code for it ? > > I would like the weather to work with any set of world maps - no matter how they were generated. I just don't think it's a good idea to tie in the elevation generation for weather with the map creation. You can create a world map any way you like (generated by a fractal program, by hand, from a digitized map of France or a photocopy of your butt...) and hopefully build an elevation map for weather for it with just a per/map base elevation value and a table for elevation ranges for arches. Having to plot a base elevation per map is a reasonable comprimise (compared to somehow generating a value for every tile on the map) I think. Also, I suspect a working elevation map for good weather can be a bit chunkier along the z axis than than an elevation map for generating and placing landscape. I brought this up as a possible answer to Andi's remarks on preserving elevation with the map editor (bad idea IMHO) not to have Tim or anyone rewrite the weather system. If someone comes up with a suitable script to do this then I am suggestin we use it is all. > Anyways, to me, the ideal solution would seem to be to keep in the > object itself. We apparantly have scripts that will backfill > elevation data - presumably, these scripts can be/are smart enough to > only fill in spaces where elevation has been removed, and not to write > over elevation for spaces player explicity sets. > > What's the problem of using these? It seems much simpler than > writing a new system to deal with this, especially because the tool is > already in place. Presumably, it wouldn't be hard to also make these > have a little bit of logic (eg, the area on this map in spaces x,y -> > x1, y1 shouldn't be backfilled, but instead of an elevation of 1200 ? > 200 ft, to mimic variation in landscape. The problem is that it is really hard to keep this information in the arches and if you manage to preserve it when you make changes, the information is really meaningless anyway. Right now you can screw up the weather system by adding a little town to the worldmap. Or the roads - this is way too fragile. Case in point - when Andi put a ring of mountains around Brest I could not just use the backfill script since the old elevation wouldn't match the fact that there were mountains there now (and then what's the point right?). For this I ran a script to lay elevation values based on the arches (like a mountain was 5000-11000 ft, a snowy mountain was 16001 - 25000 ft...) but this produces a choppy, not smoothly landscaped. The tiles that were added and the old tiles that didn't change could easily have huge elevation gaps between them. You would see a nicely sloped mountain range, but the elevation is jagged cliffs (the alternative however was no elevation which is like a pit.) Over time storing the elevation in the arches and filling it in with scripts will cause choppy and non-representative elevation data. If you can come up with a logical script to fill in the elevations, then it would make more sense to run it only when the maps changed anyway - which is my what I am saying. The only thing is that if you save the elevations in the arch you have to run this script every change or you have these dead cells, where if you save it as a elevation map itself you only have to run it when there are substanial changes (you don't need to run it when you build a road or forest an area, only when you add a lake or a mountainn or something...) There isn't a need to change the weather code drastically to do this either, just come up with a logical way to generate elevation from the existing maps and store the elevation differently, and you could get by with just copying out the existing elevation for now. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Jun 29 17:27:57 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python problems. Was: more proposals In-Reply-To: <20030625105621.85379.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030629222757.83669.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd Mitchell wrote: > If there is a problem with the plugin and SUSE in particular > it would be good to be able to post a fix for people. I got it all working on Saturday. The problem is that SuSE stores it's python library at - /usr/lib/python2.2/config/libpython2.2.a Since I suspect that other software may have a problem with that, I created a link - /usr/lib/python2.2/config/libpython.a SuSE alrady had a link /usr/lib/python/. I then had two problems with compiling the client. One was that the ALSA development stuff is all different, so I had to disable sound (I never used it anyway). I also had to make this change tp gtk/gx11.c from line 67 - #ifdef __CYGWIN__ #include #endif Change to - /*#ifdef __CYGWIN__*/ #include /*#endif*/ Everything seems to be working fine now, including the Python shelf database stuff. My own version of the IPO scripts had some enhancements so I will merge them back into the original IPO scripts and send a patch. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 30 21:31:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor (elevation) In-Reply-To: <3EFD2533.1010305@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20030701023114.67639.qmail@web21308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Wedel wrote: > > Elevation - I can see that putting it in the header does not give high > enough granularity. What I see looking at the code is that the elevation > map is 100x100. So one could put 4 values into the map header and keep > the same resolution. Not that I'm really saying this should be done, this > is just a note. I would argue that if the worldmap is expanded, the sizes > of the relative tables should get re-adjusted for the extra tiles, and not > have everything get skewed. I just had an evil thought. If we are going to remove per tile elevations, we don't really need a per map value either. For big world, we just need to specify that the border between ocean and land is at elevation zero, and calculate from there across the world. > I'd guess that those current elevations (100x100) are done by averaging > the effected squares? Correct. > just think they'd be more meaningful if more directly associated with the > map. LOS really should use elevation information. Stand on the north side of a mountain, to the south all you can see is the side of the mountain one tile away. To the north you should be able to see a great distance. Unless you are also standing in the middle of a forest off course B-). > As far as what the elevation stuff is in, when I first did it, I was > thinking feet. While it would be fine to describe it as whatever, I think > it would be useful as developers to be able to map it easily into earth > measurements, so if someone says that is 1000', you could more easily > grasp what that really means. I ask specifically so that I could make sure that the elevation to temperature calculation actually matched reality. I have a formula at home that is something like 100 meters of elevation subtracts 1 degree centigrade or something like that. Since the temperature calculations are in metric, I assumed that the elevation would also be in metric. > nice to associate a monster with a region, so it won't wander to places > outside of that region (for example, you could have a greater_scorn region I had a similar problem in my Ice castle. I wanted the ants to be limited to a certain area. This is what prompted me to fix some of the inv_checker bugs. The nightclub prompted me to fix the other inv_checker bugs that I posted. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 30 21:52:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] speculations about the floor (elevation) In-Reply-To: <200306281136.42440.yann.chachkoff@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20030701025256.48822.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Yann Chachkoff wrote: > Some thoughts... > The real question to ask is: is there are real performance bottleneck > when handling elevation on a square-by-square basis ? That is one of the things I am trying to determine with my Weather God server. I will be making the granularity of the speed hack changeable. The current 100x100 is hard coded, and certain routines will be non trivial to change. By seperating the weather code out it stops being a game mechanics bottle neck since the game server no longer has to worry about it. On the other hand, you will want to keep your granularity low if you are running the WG on the same CPU as the game server. On the gripping hand, if you have a spare machine (or cluster B-) ) you can run your weather system with a high granularity. Finally, you could run the WG in GUI mode as a screen saver on your workstation B-). As for what effect granularity has on the world, the answer to that is obvious when you wonder around near the poles and see large square icebergs. Currently, the WG waits for a tick from the server (about once every two and a half minutes), does its calculations in a fraction of a second on my Athlon XP 3000+, then waits for the next tick. When my system was a Duron 900, and the weather system was part of the game server, there was a noticable pause every two and a half minutes. If all goes well, I should be able to configure WG on my server to have per tile granularity, it will take most of two minutes to calculate, but will also have two and a half minutes to update the map it is currently on. Note that last bit, the weather system calculates the overall weather every tick, but only updates one map per tick. It also updates maps that the players are on (when they enter from memory). Since WG is a DM like player that teleports to a new map per tick, a small part now happens automatically B-). Updating a map every two minutes should not slow down the server much, as all you are doing is sprinkling some snow and rain tiles around. Roughly the equivilent game server load as an ordinary player killing a few dozen orcs in a couple of minutes. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 30 22:16:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] ar: command not found Message-ID: <200307010316.h613GorY025289@mamia.prninfo.com> Hello, I was trying to compile crossfire 1.5.0 on a SUNW,UltraAX-i2 SunOS 5.8 server, but after I tried to make it, it came up with the error, "ar cru libcross.a anim.o arch.o button.o exp.o friend.o glue.o holy.o info.o image.o init.o item.o links.o living.o loader.o logger.o los.o map.o object.o porting.o player.o re-cmp.o readable.o recipe.o shstr.o time.o treasure.o utils.o /bin/bash: ar: command not found". Anyone have any tips how to solve this? Thanks. -- Ketche _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Jun 30 22:21:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:54:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] ar: command not found In-Reply-To: <200307010316.h613GorY025289@mamia.prninfo.com> from "Meegwun South" at Jun 30, 2003 11:16:50 PM Message-ID: <200307010321.h613LVZl025369@mamia.prninfo.com> > > Hello, I was trying to compile crossfire 1.5.0 on a SUNW,UltraAX-i2 SunOS 5.8 server, but after I tried to make it, it came up with the error, "ar cru libcross.a anim.o arch.o button.o exp.o friend.o glue.o holy.o info.o image.o init.o item.o links.o living.o loader.o logger.o los.o map.o object.o porting.o player.o re-cmp.o readable.o recipe.o shstr.o time.o treasure.o utils.o > /bin/bash: ar: command not found". Anyone have any tips how to solve this? Thanks. > > -- Ketche > > Nevermind, I just found out. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel