From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 02:25:53 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:09 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Idea: Resting In-Reply-To: <3F7A5857.2000108@sonic.net> References: <3F7A5857.2000108@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F7A8181.4070502@laposte.net> > Thoughts? It wouldn't seem like this should be that hard to code in. Sounds like a fun idea to me.... Maybe, after you rest, you could have some stats drained for a few secs, or speed reduced, like you need some time to really wake up. Will be a drawback & prevent sleeping one second during heavy combat (better make sure your sleeping place is secured first!). Also make sp/hp recovering bonus low the first ticks/secs, and higher if you sleep more (once again, makes it less interesting to sleep one round during a fight). Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 02:34:51 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:09 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Floors / walls and archetypes In-Reply-To: <3F7A55E0.8080206@sonic.net> References: <3F76CC71.40006@laposte.net> <3F77B3B9.2040607@sonic.net> <3F77E76E.2060505@laposte.net> <3F791D75.4060506@sonic.net> <3F7930B8.4090104@laposte.net> <3F7A55E0.8080206@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F7A839B.5030201@laposte.net> > Or appropriate floor building objects or whatever (eg, imagine a map > you start out with special floor builder objects. You buy 'tokens', and > when you drop them on a space, different things show up (wall token, > marble floor token, etc). You could also have a 'this space is finished > token'.) Isn't dropping harder to implement than mere apply? Also, I'd prefer having to face where you wanna build/destroy rather than stand on top. After all you build a wall not under yourself, but in front of you :) And avoids the 'can't stand on wall to destroy' problem. > This is a bit trickier. Because you have some objects, like the > 'swall' archetypes, which are the jail type walls. These block passage, > but don't block the view. However, once again, they should probably be > considered walls. > > The simple definition of a wall is something that you can't pass > through, and line of sight isn't important. > > But that will also get blurred that if in the future, more refinement > on movement types are added (Eg, no walk, no fly, no spell, etc through > spaces). Something like the swall, while blocking fly/walk, should > perhaps allow spells, eg, burning hands through it would make sense. That's why some special flag for buildable zones must be defined. Also in the builder object itself where it can be put (no_pass square? no_swim?, ...), and what flags it sets/reset. Ex: build a bridge on water => you don't use swim but walk > Well, I'd think the former is easier. Because the idea of adding new > walls is probably a bit more palatable then trying to figure out what > walls to remove. Just from a movement standpoint, you can't stand on top > of a wall, so you need to deal with directions and so forth to remove > walls. However, you can stand on top of an empty space. Again depends. I'd think it more fun if we can start from either map. Makes subterrean buildable holes more realistic, and lets build on the ground. (my current code usse facing direction for building, btw) But some things, like changing floor archetype, could be done on the standing square (ie you put pavement where you are, not on the square you look at). > But also it means you can start out with 'mostly' empty maps, with > perhaps some special section walled off (say special teleporter or > something). If you can only add walls, you then can't get access to > that teleporter until you pay whatever some of money. But if you can > remove them, then you need to put in special indicators of 'don't remove > these walls'. There will always be walls you can't remove, if only walls on map border... Adding a flag lets you make buildable non rectangular maps (if no flag, code will use the fact you are on map edge to forbid building, thus rectangular map mandatory). Also money wise it'll probably cost more to build walls than destroy ones (always easier to destroy than build), so makes money more interesting :) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 03:38:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:09 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Idea: Resting In-Reply-To: <3F7A5857.2000108@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 01-Oct-03 Mark Wedel wrote: > Thoughts? It wouldn't seem like this should be that hard to code in. If you plan to rest, there should be a difference between sleep and rest. Rest is not standing. Sleep is actual sleep. The distinction really being, you would be incredibly vulnerable when asleep. Ie, you get NO armour/ac/dexterity bonuses, and your opponent allways hits. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 10:11:08 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Floors / walls and archetypes In-Reply-To: <3F7A55E0.8080206@sonic.net> References: <3F76CC71.40006@laposte.net> <3F77B3B9.2040607@sonic.net> <3F77E76E.2060505@laposte.net> <3F791D75.4060506@sonic.net> <3F7930B8.4090104@laposte.net> <3F7A55E0.8080206@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F7AEE8C.6050709@sympatico.ca> > But that will also get blurred that if in the future, more refinement > on movement types are added (Eg, no walk, no fly, no spell, etc through > spaces). Something like the swall, while blocking fly/walk, should > perhaps allow spells, eg, burning hands through it would make sense. My favorite enhancement (number one with a bullet) would be to get these movement types working. For pure play enhancement this is probably the most bang you can get for your buck and eyeballing it it doesn't seem to be a real hard change to make (I could almost do a poor mans implementation myself...) If we could leave the no_pass flag alone and do some sort of thing where we recycle can_pass_thru (is not used right now is it?) as a bitmask to indicate which movement types can pass through objects then set up some movement flags to check against when movement happens. This will really open up ranged combat, allow for some terrain advantages and enable the creation of some really neat maps (archers in turrets, bridges and moats, pirate boarding parties, being able to keep some distance between a monster and your character, being able to keep some space between the player and your goblin bowmen...) Please consider this - it's nice to have things like support for neon penguins but I would love some real play enhancement too. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 05:58:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Idea: Resting In-Reply-To: <3F7A8181.4070502@laposte.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > > Thoughts? It wouldn't seem like this should be that hard to code in. > > Sounds like a fun idea to me.... > > Maybe, after you rest, you could have some stats drained for a few secs, > or speed reduced, like you need some time to really wake up. Will be a > drawback & prevent sleeping one second during heavy combat (better make > sure your sleeping place is secured first!). Hehh, sounds like a too-real thing for the game but even as a biologist I must argue with this. In case of emergancy animals and of course humans wake up almost immedietly. (Have you ever had a nose-bleeding while sleeping?) Anyway, in my opinion, an environment dependence would be enough. (And it's much harder to have some rest during a combat, than to fully awake for a battle.) > Also make sp/hp recovering bonus low the first ticks/secs, and higher if > you sleep more (once again, makes it less interesting to sleep one round > during a fight). > > Nicolas 'Ryo' > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 06:08:15 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Idea: Resting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Tim Rightnour wrote: > > On 01-Oct-03 Mark Wedel wrote: > > Thoughts? It wouldn't seem like this should be that hard to code in. > > If you plan to rest, there should be a difference between sleep and rest. Rest > is not standing. Sleep is actual sleep. Sleep and rest? C'mon, it's actually a game not a reality simulator. Let's not forget that this game is very deadly, one can die in a blink of an eye. The being blind thing is good enough. (Though I wonder... No, I _hope_ x-ray would still work while sleeping :-) > The distinction really being, you would be incredibly vulnerable when asleep. > Ie, you get NO armour/ac/dexterity bonuses, and your opponent allways hits. Ok, maybe the ac neglection is fair. (But not the armor! A dragon has a natural armor of 73 at lvl 110. Why shouldn't he have it while sleeping? Anyway, monsters are usually stupid, and don't know where to hit. I mean, they do know where to hit, but they don't know where not to hit.) Oh yes. And ac is completely useless anyway :-D > --- > Tim Rightnour > NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ > NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 11:37:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Idea: Resting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7B02E4.2020801@sympatico.ca> Resting would be ok, it would give a good use for chairs and non-save beds. If hotels had a better than normal beds it might be worth it to spend a bit to rest up. Hopefully it will be pretty simple, you rest, you're blind for a bit, you gain back stuff faster depending on if you are on a chair or a bed or in the ground. If you get hit or do anything (can you still chat?) you stop resting and don't get any benefits for resting that turn (you have to start over again). Have to rest a full turn before you start gaining. People who are often in combat type situations frequently have the ability to wake instantly alert and ready to fight so I don't see a need to build in a groggy period (it's only us civilized folk who can afford to be groggy), but you shouldn't be able to rest between sword chops or spell casts. In fact you should probably have to apply a chair or a bed or a mat(do we want portable resting?) to rest at all. As an aside, it would be fun to build in drinking to this so if you outdrink your constitution (drunk saving throw) you go into a forced rest mode. (First you apply confused effects, then you pass out). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 14:32:15 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Idea: Resting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 01-Oct-03 Palfy Tamas wrote: > Ok, maybe the ac neglection is fair. (But not the armor! A dragon has a > natural armor of 73 at lvl 110. Why shouldn't he have it while sleeping? > Anyway, monsters are usually stupid, and don't know where to hit. I mean, > they do know where to hit, but they don't know where not to hit.) Oh yes. > And ac is completely useless anyway :-D That depends on if you're attacked by a monster or not. Lets say a sleeping dragon has a natural armour of 73. Does he have it over his eyes? What about vulnerable spots? The wonderful thing about a sleeping target is, you can basically measure up your victim and hit him right in a vital spot. A chink in the armour, a joint, etc. I seem to recall AD&D used to have rules regarding instant kills on sleeping opponents. Thats a bit brutal though, but probably realistic. As for a monster knowing how to hit a vulnerable spot.. I'm not totally sure about that. Dogs know to go for the neck.. there must be something to that. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 15:55:45 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Idea: Resting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7B3F51.2050507@sympatico.ca> > As for a monster knowing how to hit a vulnerable spot.. I'm not totally sure > about that. Dogs know to go for the neck.. there must be something to that. They also go for the groin and hamstring... just like lawyers do, go figure that one. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 1 18:10:49 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F7B3F51.2050507@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: I dunno if this effort has a poin or not but I think I can loose nothing, so I try. I want to speek to the developers. I honor the work of every devs, they are to the metalforge cf server as parents to the child, but as one who's part of it I feel I have to tell: metalforge seems to be dieing. It used to have really good measure of players logged in, it had it's regular visitors - veterans and newbies as well. Now - almost nothing. Like a home-made server, almost nobody. I don't know how devs feel about us, players or about the server itself, but as for me it looks like they don't even think about it. (And tell me, what's more important: The word of the parent who says he loves his child; or the childs word who says he _feels_ his parent doesn't love him.) Yes, I know that devs work is not an easy one, and such players (aka like me) should shut his mouth instead - in most devs opinion. But consider this as a feedback. Currently the server is almost unusable. No client connecting to it works properly. Some high-lvl chars meets the problem having too much xp (above 2,1billion) in a skill which the server considers lvl 1. (I have heard that even lower lvl skills are considered to be lvl 1 as well.) Why don't you apply your updates on an experimental server (meaning - unreachable by regular players)? Why don't you apply only stable updates on metalforge? I have heard about the new skill system as well. I don't know if you are intend to test before applying it, but I want to share some of my opinions about it. Splitting the 6 main skills into 40 separated ones has some problems. It's too early. Now, CF is almost no more than a hack-and-slash RPG. You have very few opportunity to get xp by other than killing. And it's indeed true at high lvl, for getting considerable xp (>100.000) is almost impossible without killing. And there are limits you cannot exceed. You can excercise your literacy by reaidng books ( and, that is, _spell_ books), but you'll stop at about lvl 20 - after you've read all possible magic books succesfully. Making skills _without_ the proper opportunity to _raise_ those skills is impetuous, the almost biggest mistake one can commit about such online mud-like games. Having lotsa skills may seem good, but first you should have a system that espouses it. I have heard the argue that this is for the sake of the possibility to make new skills and spells. Why to do that? Is it worth to force all players to start over again from scratch? And it's not even necessery! You could group the new-made separated skills and ensure that whenever a skill gets xp, all of it's group-related ones get the same amount. The overall xp would be too much this way? Just divide the aquired overall xp with the number of the members of the given skill-group. And what we would have there? The same as it is currently; completely compatible with the current system, still serving your purposes. And this way even player files would be possible to adopt. I hear of many good ideas of updates. It's really great. Here's this sleeping idea. I like it, I really do. But still it makes me sad. It's like a mother giving her daughter a really big teddy bear for 100$, while all the little girl wants is a little bunny. The mother just doesn't ask her. I think the changes should serve the goal of yours' - which I do not know what would be. But I hope, it's to make a really good server that provides players lot's of fun. So a change should consider one thing first: Would it's application make the server more joyable, more fun? (Like big world maps, the idea seems to be good at first sight, but without a good background, it would be only an emty shell that would make only difficoulties, like making travels too long and boring, and making players to get lost in the wilderness and confused about quest areas.) I know it may look bullshit - but as you created this server and made us able to play on it, so become you have resposible to the server, and to us, players as well. You can abandon us of course, you have the right. I just ask you - in the name of the most of us - please, don't do it! _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 2 01:01:11 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Floors / walls and archetypes In-Reply-To: <3F7A839B.5030201@laposte.net> References: <3F76CC71.40006@laposte.net> <3F77B3B9.2040607@sonic.net> <3F77E76E.2060505@laposte.net> <3F791D75.4060506@sonic.net> <3F7930B8.4090104@laposte.net> <3F7A55E0.8080206@sonic.net> <3F7A839B.5030201@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F7BBF27.9070404@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Isn't dropping harder to implement than mere apply? > Also, I'd prefer having to face where you wanna build/destroy rather > than stand on top. After all you build a wall not under yourself, but in > front of you :) And avoids the 'can't stand on wall to destroy' problem. Dropping isn't really harder than applying. Both are relatively simple. The idea to key on direction the player is facing seems like a bad idea IMO. Using fire directions or something might be OK, but relying on direction the player is facing just seems like it will be very error prone (I was facing that way? I thought I was facing another way, etc). > Again depends. I'd think it more fun if we can start from either map. > Makes subterrean buildable holes more realistic, and lets build on the > ground. > (my current code usse facing direction for building, btw) > But some things, like changing floor archetype, could be done on the > standing square (ie you put pavement where you are, not on the square > you look at). Well, here I disagree. I don't mind allowing some building code for people to customize apartments/guilds. If you want to build a dungeon, use the map editor. There is no way a build in game editor can ever really do more than some minor things (or more to the point, I don't want the complexity of all that in the server code for something of dubious usefulness). So it should really be designed for what is will be used for, which should be apartment/guild customization, and not the ability to build any possible map. So not being able to easily build dungeons isn't a big deal for me. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 2 01:25:52 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Idea: Resting In-Reply-To: <3F7A5857.2000108@sonic.net> References: <3F7A5857.2000108@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F7BC4F0.4080606@sonic.net> I certainly don't want this to be overly complicated. sleep and rest are basically equivalant - sleep is just a more extreme form. One could certainly extend the 'rest' object to incur ac penalties and armor (or other resist) penalties/benefits (sleeping bag helps a little against cold?) Delay or stat loss on wakeup seems like extra complication. If you're getting woken up by being damaged, you're already at a disadvantage by having been hit already (lets face if, if you've been woken up by a fireball, you could be in some serious trouble). Presumably, all forms of rest require some piece of furniture, so you can never really rest while standing. Let's also look at the fact that paralyzed players (and monsters) don't loose a whole bunch of AC or armor or whatever else. As for what commands break resting: All of them - I certainly don't want to try and figure out what commands you should issue while resting and not (certianly, movement shouldn't be allowed, and things like like chatting are questionable. One can argue that things like 'who' or 'maps', which are really administrative commands, shouldn't change your rest status. But analyzing all the commands adds even more complication. Plus, my personal thought behind the idea of rest is that if you don't really have anything better to do while regaining your hp/sp/grace, you rest. If you have better things to do, go and do it, and not bother about resting. One could take this and make it a very complicated thing (we'll, if you've rested within X time frame, you shouldn't get as much benefit, if you haven't rested in Y, you should incur other penalties, etc). But the game is not a reality simulation - it's meant for fun. I think most all players would agree that it would be annoying if you had to have your characters actually sleep so many hours per game day, which basically means that you basically have to stop playing the character for some time or something. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 2 01:50:15 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] ALSA 0.9.x sound server patches In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030826214039.023f4a70@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030825194512.00aacd30@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030826214039.023f4a70@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <3F7BCAA7.9070807@sonic.net> Kevin R. Bulgrien wrote: >>>Perhaps it should also be noted that --disable_alsa >>> >>>in client/configure does not work: >>> >>>> --disable-alsa disable ALSA sound support default=use alsa sound >> >>support > if alsa libraries exist >> >> >>>Kevin Bulgrien > > > The following patch adds a --disable-alsa9 option which lets me compile > an OSS version of cfsndserv... > > Would someone please consider committing this to CVS? The patch is > for client/configure.in. Applied to CVS. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 2 06:20:23 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child References: Message-ID: <23261.1065093623@www67.gmx.net> In reply to Palfy Tamas: I think that one of the biggest problems with CF development is that there are many people developing new features, while almost nobody cares about fleshing out these features and providing actual game-*content*. Adding to this, there is hardly any control what gets committed. Some developers even decided to stop announcing new features to the mailing list because they don't like to hear criticism. This is bad, and this is something more people should consider. OTOH, I have to admit that sometimes it is hard to keep our CVS totally "stable" and "clean". The new skill system for example is in my opinion the most promising and reasonable improvement for a long time. And yes, it does brake a lot of things - and I'm truely sorry for that. Though if Mark wouldn't have committed it to CVS, how should we really test it, improve it, and create content for it (maps/arches)? Changes like this should not happen often, and they should be justified. When it happens however, the server administrators are free to keep their servers unchanged (not updated) till most of the dust cleared and there is a "stable" cvs again. The skill system in particular also didn't hit CVS by surprise. It was discussed and announced a long time ago, even repeatedly announced. CVS was tagged right before the checkin so that everyone can easily get the last version without the new skill stuff. Your agrument about skills lacking ways to advance is valid, but it doesn't justify keeping the old system. The old skill system was practically impossible to balance because all skills were tied to each other. Now we have a much better system, but we need time to integrate it fully into the maps. Apart from that, is there really an urgent need to be able to max out skills like literacy, hiding and the likes? I doubt there is. So after all, please bear with us. I know the recent changes hurt, but we will try to form the new skill system into something that is more enjoyable than the old one. It may take time, but I am confident that it will happen. AndreasV -- NEU F?R ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - f?r Fotos, Musik, Dateien... Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS, Multimedia-Gru?, GMX FotoService Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.gmx.net +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f?r Mail, Message, More! +++ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 2 10:15:40 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <23261.1065093623@www67.gmx.net> Message-ID: I'd like to ask some questions, for I really want to see clear: -Should we expect a fix of metalforge server (fix means correcting things with the clients, fixing xp-lvl bugs...) in the next few weeks...? Or months? Or will it be as it is currently until it's wiped out and the new server starts (with the new skill system)? -Will there be an opportunity to carry on our current characters on the new skill system-based server? (As I mentioned an idea which I don't know if it's a real possibility.) -Do you want to have a new basis (I mean, code) of skill systems, or is it your direct goal to split the skills, no matter if there would be a possibility to form skill groups (preventing such things that one can use a long sword at lvl 110, and when he finds a Belzebub's sword (or any other 2-handed sword) he has to go back killing goblins and mice). And some comments: Maxing out some skills like literacy, hiding may seem to be pointless. But this argument contradicts with the reason of the update itself; like you'll be able to make new spells, for example ones, that only high lvl characters can get. How should one make sure that only the high-lvl one can learn it? The character should have a high literacy... There we are. (And indeed should he have high literacy, preventing cases when a high-lvl char gets the book and gives it to a low-lvl one.) And another thing: Will there be an xp-cap? For it there were one, a char could have only a few skills at high lvl before he reaches the xp limit. (Same problem now, which seemed to be solved right away, but in fact it's far worse than before, for this way some people have lvl 1 skills instead of lvl 110. And yet again, some peepo said that even lower lvl skills are considered to be lvl 1 as well.) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 2 12:05:13 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Client display issues Message-ID: <1065114313.7689.11.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> I assume everyone is aware of the client display issues, but I haven't seen anything posted here, so I'll outline the problem as I've observed it: I'm using the gtk client with a fairly large view of the map (19x19), though I suspect that neither of those points are terribly relevant to the bug. I have fog-of-war enabled, which probably is relevant. Anyway, the problem is that when something is on the screen when you last saw the square, and the square becomes visible again, it is still displayed there even if it isn't really there anymore. This is most common with area-effect spells and monsters. The simplest way to demonstrate this is to use some spell like burning hands in one direction and then run in the opposite direction while the fire is still on-screen. Wait briefly for the fire to die, and more back--you'll see it still there. There are several ways to get the display to correct itself: 1) Sometimes moving over the square resets it. (It's funny to then see pieces of multi-square monsters left.) 2) Other things moving over the square (monsters, spells, etc.) sometimes resets it. 3) Moving so that the square is on your screen but blocked by a wall will result in it being reset when you see it directly. The last point leads me to suspect that the client is setting a bit to indicate that a map cell needs new information, but it isn't setting it when a square becomes off-screen. --PC _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 2 12:03:44 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7C5A70.6010707@laposte.net> > I'd like to ask some questions, for I really want to see clear: > > -Should we expect a fix of metalforge server (fix means correcting things > with the clients, fixing xp-lvl bugs...) in the next few weeks...? Or > months? Or will it be as it is currently until it's wiped out and the new > server starts (with the new skill system)? First, you should check the CF message board, this has been discussed a lot already there. URL is crossfire.metalforge.net Also, many people don't have troubles... I'm playing on Metalforge, and it's fine for me. Using GTK client under Windows, only trouble is image cache, and it's easily fixed. Yes many people have troubles, but it's more a client issue than a server one imo. > -Will there be an opportunity to carry on our current characters on the > new skill system-based server? (As I mentioned an idea which I don't > know if it's a real possibility.) I think there is currently no conversion script from 'old' skills system to new one. The high level xp trouble I think some admins fixed manually for players, but I may be wrong here. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 2 17:50:37 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:10 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F7C5A70.6010707@laposte.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > > I'd like to ask some questions, for I really want to see clear: > > > > -Should we expect a fix of metalforge server (fix means correcting things > > with the clients, fixing xp-lvl bugs...) in the next few weeks...? Or > > months? Or will it be as it is currently until it's wiped out and the new > > server starts (with the new skill system)? > > First, you should check the CF message board, this has been discussed a lot > already there. > URL is crossfire.metalforge.net Very funny, I like this attitude to show peepo some completely useless URL info instead of giving a proper answer. Is it that hard, or what? I _do_ know the URL of the metalforge wep page... I just didn't want to spend hours to find out this info... I simply play on that server, and I'm not a cf maniac that reads every related info on every accessible wep-page. > Also, many people don't have troubles... I'm playing on Metalforge, and it's Many people don't have troubles? Do you play there? Well, I do as well, and I know that _most_ of the peepo _do_ have troubles, I don't even know anyone who doesn't. > fine for me. Using GTK client under Windows, only trouble is image cache, and > it's easily fixed. Maybe the Windows client works properly _for_you_ (I dunno who cares that) but many peepo use cfclient (which one crashes or shows buildings messy) and gcfclient 1.5.0 (which cannot show large buildings properly, and this _is_ annoying. > Yes many people have troubles, but it's more a client issue than a server one imo. More a client issue, eh? Well then why is it so, that connecting to other servers yield no problems...? > > > -Will there be an opportunity to carry on our current characters on the > > new skill system-based server? (As I mentioned an idea which I don't > > know if it's a real possibility.) > > I think there is currently no conversion script from 'old' skills system to new one. > > The high level xp trouble I think some admins fixed manually for players, but I > may be wrong here. Fixed, and went wrong again. > > Nicolas 'Ryo' > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 00:09:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7D047D.8050402@sonic.net> Palfy Tamas wrote: > I'd like to ask some questions, for I really want to see clear: > > -Should we expect a fix of metalforge server (fix means correcting things > with the clients, fixing xp-lvl bugs...) in the next few weeks...? Or > months? Or will it be as it is currently until it's wiped out and the new > server starts (with the new skill system)? exp bug will be fixed next time the server restarts. It's been stable enough recently that it hasn't crashed and restarted itself, so I'll probably have to kick it myself. client issue can really only be fixed in the client. I'll try to take a look at the x11 client. A new client should probably get pushed out sometime soon, but I'll have to see how my time allows for it, as well as what it takes to fix the bugs. > > -Will there be an opportunity to carry on our current characters on the > new skill system-based server? (As I mentioned an idea which I don't > know if it's a real possibility.) No. For a few main reasons: 1) No convenient way to convert characters over. 2) New server will use the bigworld maps, so apartments and guilds would be lost anyways. 3) Moving over the characters is basically unfair to anyone who creates a new character (old characters will have exp/abilities that new characters, given the new rules can't match). That said, it is hopeful we'll have a download utility so players can get their old characters. As a note, I consider the new skill and spell system to basically be a 'version 2' of crossfire. I can think of very few commercial games where you can take characters from the old version to the new versionn (I'm ignoring things like sequels/add ons). > > -Do you want to have a new basis (I mean, code) of skill systems, or is it > your direct goal to split the skills, no matter if there would be a > possibility to form skill groups (preventing such things that one can use > a long sword at lvl 110, and when he finds a Belzebub's sword (or any > other 2-handed sword) he has to go back killing goblins and mice). Skills are split. In terms of your example, it isn't accurate. A level 100 character would still be able to kill fairly nasty monsters even at level 1 in the 2 handed weapon skill. Why? High stats, high resistances, etc. Such a character could probably sit next to a wyvern and not worry about it. So that character could very quickly get to a reasonable level in two handed weapon. Yes, some monsters he may not be able to take on, simply because of ac issues (can't hit the thing). Same is pretty much true for spells. If your level 100 in evocation and pick up sorcery, you can probably get levels pretty quickly - that level 100 in evocation gives you lots of spell points, and even though that first level sorcery spell may not do a bunch of damage, you can fire a whole bunch off at a relative tough monster (monster won't be able to kill you for exmaple). > > And some comments: Maxing out some skills like literacy, hiding may seem > to be pointless. But this argument contradicts with the reason of > the update itself; like you'll be able to make new spells, for example > ones, that only high lvl characters can get. How should one make sure that > only the high-lvl one can learn it? The character should have a high > literacy... There we are. (And indeed should he have high literacy, > preventing cases when a high-lvl char gets the book and gives it to a > low-lvl one.) This is all relative. High level for literacy might be level 20, not 100. To me, that is much more reasonable (and easier) to try and balance exp gain for a more reasonable set of levels. Eg, you can be relative sure that someone with level 20 in literacy earned it through hard work. In the old system, level 20 in mental might mean the player used various tricks or whatnot, and not as much 'honest' play. Trying to balance exp gain for a skill from level 1 to 100 is next to impossible. > And another thing: Will there be an xp-cap? For it there were one, a char > could have only a few skills at high lvl before he reaches the xp limit. > (Same problem now, which seemed to be solved right away, but in fact it's > far worse than before, for this way some people have lvl 1 skills instead > of lvl 110. And yet again, some peepo said that even lower lvl skills are > considered to be lvl 1 as well.) There is an exp limit, but it works different. Basically, the sum of the exp in your skills no longer has to match the characters overall exp. Thus, if say the exp cap is 10 billion, you could have 10 billion in all your skills, and your overall exp is also 10 billion. This also makes it easier/fairer for things like exp loss - the 3 level/20% max loss can now be done more fairly (eg, in the old system, you'd basically have to take that 3 level/20% max from the characters overall exp, and then adjust the rest of the stats accordingly). Since they are disconnected, you can really put a 3 level/20% max on each skill. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 00:19:26 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <23261.1065093623@www67.gmx.net> References: <23261.1065093623@www67.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3F7D06DE.4060307@sonic.net> Andreas Vogl wrote: > In reply to Palfy Tamas: > > I think that one of the biggest problems with CF development is > that there are many people developing new features, > while almost nobody cares about fleshing out these features and > providing actual game-*content*. Add to that, also include fixing bugs in what most developers are not doing. > Adding to this, there is hardly any control what gets committed. > Some developers even decided to stop announcing new features > to the mailing list because they don't like to hear criticism. > This is bad, and this is something more people should consider. Yes, this is a problem. I've considers locking CVS access so that only I can commit changes to the server. I'd note that 90% of the commits are just fine. It is the other 10% that are a problem. I'm particularly annoyed about this because I'm basically the only one that goes and fixes the bug, so when people check in questionable code, it comes to me to fix it. Some of the problem is that everyone is a volunteer, so it only makes sense that people want to work on those cool new features and not spend down time tracking down and fixing bugs. One solution could perhaps be something like 'want to put a new feature in? Need to fix one of the outstanding bugs' or soemthing. But I'd hate to have to enforce such a notion. I'd also like to see more maps. I don't know why more people aren't making them - that seems like one of the more noticable features that players would notice, eg, most everyone would see your maps. Good maps probably get more acclaim than most any code feature. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 00:20:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Client display issues In-Reply-To: <1065114313.7689.11.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> References: <1065114313.7689.11.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> Message-ID: <3F7D0737.2060306@sonic.net> Preston Crow wrote: > I assume everyone is aware of the client display issues, but I haven't > seen anything posted here, so I'll outline the problem as I've observed > it: > > I'm using the gtk client with a fairly large view of the map (19x19), > though I suspect that neither of those points are terribly relevant to > the bug. I have fog-of-war enabled, which probably is relevant. > > Anyway, the problem is that when something is on the screen when you > last saw the square, and the square becomes visible again, it is still > displayed there even if it isn't really there anymore. This is most > common with area-effect spells and monsters. The simplest way to > demonstrate this is to use some spell like burning hands in one > direction and then run in the opposite direction while the fire is still > on-screen. Wait briefly for the fire to die, and more back--you'll see > it still there. > > There are several ways to get the display to correct itself: > > 1) Sometimes moving over the square resets it. (It's funny to then see > pieces of multi-square monsters left.) > > 2) Other things moving over the square (monsters, spells, etc.) > sometimes resets it. > > 3) Moving so that the square is on your screen but blocked by a wall > will result in it being reset when you see it directly. > > The last point leads me to suspect that the client is setting a bit to > indicate that a map cell needs new information, but it isn't setting it > when a square becomes off-screen. I've seen the problem also, but haven't had time to track it down. It is somehow related to the smoothing code. If you go back to a cvs version before that smoothing stuff was put in, you never see the issue. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 01:54:33 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] player speed idea. Message-ID: <3F7D1D29.9010307@sonic.net> This is an old topic I'm just raising again. The general idea is to smooth out the player movement speed, and also don't make them move quite as fast. A normal players movement speed would be from say 0.25 to 0.75 (these numbers just seem reasonable, but could be adjusted). If the character was carrying next to nothing, they'd move at 0.75, fully loaded they'd move at 0.25. Half loaded they move at 0.5. Things like strength and dex would not effect player speed directly. Strength indirectly effects it in that a strong character can carry more. Thus, a really strongh character may be half loaded at 1000 kg, where a weak character would be fully loaded with that gear. Note that this change is only for movement speed, not for weapon speed. Weapon speed is addressed below, but is not directly tied to this portion of the idea. The max armor speed for penalty would play as it does now. If the max speed for that armor is 0.5, then if after adjusting for your equipment, you're moving faster than 0.5, your speed is reduced to 0.5 My thought for items that give bonus speed is that they just add on to your speed (eg, something with bonus speed 0.2 would just add .2 to your speed after all adjustements). Alternative would be that bonus speed adjusts your 'max' speed, but not your min. Thus, if you have a bonus speed of 0.25, your max speed is now 1.0, min speed is still 0.25. If you're fully loaded, you still move at 0.25. But if your half loaded, you now move at 0.62 instead of 0.5. As part of this, hopefully clean that up - right now 'exp' is used in most objects to denote bonus speed - this doesn't provide very fine resolution (tenths of ticks), but is also confusion. Just add a 'bonus_speed' field to the object, and make it a float. Rationale for these changes: Crossfire is not well designed for players moving above speed 1.0, and this can easily happen now days. Also, fully loaded characters, even with a min speed of 0.1, can seem intolerably slow. The idea is that min speed won't be quite so slow, so even moving in those cases is an ok clip. But also fix the problem of fast players easily outrunning lightning bolts and arrows and whatnot. I'd note if the problem is perceived issue of player perceiving movement too slow, I'd still rather speed get reduced, but then reduce the time of each tick. EG, half player speed, half the tick time, and things appear about the same, but easier to make movement somewhat sane (making objects move faster than 1.0 would not really work right, as objects would appear to jump and skip spaces and whatnot). ------------- Weapon speed: Change calculation for weapon speed, and perhaps put a cap on of about 2.0. Make weapon speed based less on the characters str/dex/weapon weight, and more on skill level in weapon. Weapons would have a base weapon speed which then determines how much harder it improves it (eg, a maul may have a base weapon_speed of 0.5, while a mallet has one of 1.0). Not sure how I'd do the increase in speed - a simplistic approach of something like 10th level means the speed is now 0.6/1.1 respectively, or something else. Have things like magic have much less impact on the improvement of the speed, or maybe none at all. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 02:21:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] player speed idea. In-Reply-To: <3F7D1D29.9010307@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 03-Oct-03 Mark Wedel wrote: > But also fix the problem of fast players easily outrunning lightning > bolts and arrows and whatnot. I don't think this will be fixed so easily. In reality, an arrow should move 10-20 times as fast as a running man. You may make it less obvious, but arrows will still be way out of whack. It should be virtually impossible to sidestep an arrow fired from across the room, unless you step prior to launch. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 02:46:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F7D06DE.4060307@sonic.net> References: <23261.1065093623@www67.gmx.net> <3F7D06DE.4060307@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F7D294B.8060003@laposte.net> > Add to that, also include fixing bugs in what most developers are not > doing. > Yes, this is a problem. I've considers locking CVS access so that only > I can commit changes to the server. Hum, I didn't follow all commits to CVS, but it seems to me most of major changes are at least announced on the mailing list, and patches sent for testing. Am I wrong here? Also features are discussed here, on #crossfire, on the message board. > I'm particularly annoyed about this because I'm basically the only one > that goes and fixes the bug, so when people check in questionable code, > it comes to me to fix it. The root problem here is the questionable code check in, no? > One solution could perhaps be something like 'want to put a new feature > in? Need to fix one of the outstanding bugs' or soemthing. But I'd hate > to have to enforce such a notion. I'd suggest more something like 'you commit code, fine, it breaks the game, YOU fix it'. > I'd also like to see more maps. I don't know why more people aren't > making them - that seems like one of the more noticable features that > players would notice, eg, most everyone would see your maps. Good maps > probably get more acclaim than most any code feature. One thing for making maps is testing. That's why some people wanted a server for Win32, to test their maps. Though it seems to me that most people are either players or developers, thus not making many maps, but more playing or contributing to the code ^_^ Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 03:07:49 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7D2E55.6070902@laposte.net> > Very funny, I like this attitude to show peepo some completely useless URL > info instead of giving a proper answer. Is it that hard, or what? I _do_ > know the URL of the metalforge wep page... I just didn't want to spend > hours to find out this info... I simply play on that server, and I'm not a > cf maniac that reads every related info on every accessible wep-page. Sorry, I don't consider this useless. I didn't paste text from messageboard because I think it's interesting to read whole threads, not extract quotes from their context. Also, if there is a thread in the forum, I seems to me it's more polite to reply there than on the mailing list, on the basis that the posters of the thread obviously read the forum, but we don't know for the mailing list. > Many people don't have troubles? Do you play there? Well, I do as well, > and I know that _most_ of the peepo _do_ have troubles, I don't even know > anyone who doesn't. I do play there, and yes I know people who have troubles. But I also know people who don't. I'd grossestimate 50% people I know have troubles, 50% don't. > Maybe the Windows client works properly _for_you_ (I dunno who cares that) > but many peepo use cfclient (which one crashes or shows buildings messy) > and gcfclient 1.5.0 (which cannot show large buildings properly, and this > _is_ annoying. This is known, and I think people are working to fix that. > More a client issue, eh? Well then why is it so, that connecting to other > servers yield no problems...? Because other servers aren't updated to bigimage system? I refer you to the following thread of the messageboard, which discusses Metalforge's update: http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopic.php?t=153 You can also check that mail archive: http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire-devel/2000-January/005078.html (date seems odd, but it seems it's from after the Metalforge update) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 03:47:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] player speed idea. In-Reply-To: <3F7D1D29.9010307@sonic.net> References: <3F7D1D29.9010307@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031003104755.66b7b6fa.scachi@gmx.de> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:54:33 -0700 Mark Wedel wrote: > Things like strength and dex would not effect player speed directly. Strength > indirectly effects it in that a strong character can carry more. Thus, a really > strongh character may be half loaded at 1000 kg, where a weak character would be > fully loaded with that gear. 1000kg it to much weight, nobody should be able to carry more than 300 kg. Why not add a carry system like other RPG or hack n slash games. Add the size to the object, so you can carry max 300kg and or a maximal overall size of ??. Make default spaces for the stuff you are able to wear (equipped) at the same time, and one space for additional stuff in a default size where you can put all inactive (unequipped) stuff... So you would be able to carry one bed, or one big clock, but not both at the same time. I don't like it to be able to walk around with 2 beds, one clock, 2 chairs, ... in my inventory. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 06:23:06 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] player speed idea. In-Reply-To: <3F7D1D29.9010307@sonic.net> Message-ID: Currently there's a problem with the slow-speed characters, I dunno if you are to correct it, but let me tell you: I dunno how to name it (may have a local term); if I had a char with about 0.75 speed and hold down a button (for example one bound to meditation) the char cannot move - not until I stop holding down that button, but until he meditated for the proper time. This is _deadly_. (Flu causes extreme speed reduction for example and it's really one hell of a pain to wait for your character to be able to act again and finish all the moves you issued him. Webs do the same. It's a _real_ problem even now...) Keyboard cache? Maybe it's a client thing? I dunno about this, but if the characters were to have such low speed even after lvl 20, this is something that should be considered to correct. (Or pls. tell us how one can fix this in his client...) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 06:59:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] player speed idea. In-Reply-To: <20031003104755.66b7b6fa.scachi@gmx.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 scachi@gmx.de wrote: > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:54:33 -0700 > Mark Wedel wrote: > > > Things like strength and dex would not effect player speed directly. Strength > > indirectly effects it in that a strong character can carry more. Thus, a really > > strongh character may be half loaded at 1000 kg, where a weak character would be > > fully loaded with that gear. > > 1000kg it to much weight, nobody should be able to carry more than 300 kg. > Why not add a carry system like other RPG or hack n slash games. > Add the size to the object, so you can carry max 300kg and or a maximal overall size of ??. > Make default spaces for the stuff you are able to wear (equipped) at the same time, and one space for additional stuff in a default size where you can put all inactive (unequipped) stuff... > So you would be able to carry one bed, or one big clock, > but not both at the same time. > > I don't like it to be able to walk around with 2 beds, one clock, 2 chairs, ... in my inventory. Well, this is yet to be considered IMO. But as I (and M. Wedel) said, it's actually not a reality simulators. The characters are not regular peepo like the ones who walk around in the streets. They are heroes with extreme abilities, and for example the strongest man in the world would have about 15-18 STR in the game, while one who could carry 1 ton half loaded has 30. Well, carrying 2-4 beds while still being able to fight is impossible with any strength, but we should consider that such rules would only slow down the game, not make it more enjoyable. (I have a char and I want to bring 3 beds somewhere, I have to do the trip 3 times. That's pointless IMO.) We should never forget that this is a game, features should serve _that_, not our sense of reality. Of course other HnS and RPG games may have such features, but check 'em: In those games (DiabloII for example, or Baldur's Gate) you don't _want_ to carry beds at all. (And I hated even in those games the kill-get_treasure-go_back_to_shop-sell_items-GO_BACK_FOR_MORE_TREASURE_FOR_I _COULDN'T_CARRY_ANY_MORE thing...) Why is it a problem? For -like it or not- you can get money this way, and almost _no_other_way_. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, the game should espouse other forms of reaching a goal you want to reach with a certain method, _before_ changing that given method drastically. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 10:09:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F7D294B.8060003@laposte.net> References: <23261.1065093623@www67.gmx.net> <3F7D06DE.4060307@sonic.net> <3F7D294B.8060003@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F7D913B.60203@sympatico.ca> I really think that the development community has been given a bad reputation lately and from some people who couldn't take the time to do even a basic amount of research. This problem has nothing to do with the coding side of the project and everything to do with server administration. Players using 1.5.0 server could continue on a server for the next 100 years but with no expectation of game enhancements. I think that perhaps the server listings have been getting lax and that real messages should be put in place on the metaserver list defining the release of a server, the client requirements and proper warnings to players of the server goals. Also if the different server administrators would work together it should be possible to have some players (windows DX player) migrated off to a server that would be pleased to support them and provide a stable code base for their use (1.5.0 most likely). I think more people are angry at the Metalforge server being updated than they are with any real development issues, but are mistakenly equating the two as the same issue. I also must say that there have been a few very loud voices who are more interested in stirring up fear and loathing than in resolving any of these issues. I know that being told that your player will be deleted is a pretty loaded statement, especially when it is unlikely that any such policy is being implemented. Also logging into metalforge and shouting out that your characters are going to be deleted is even more of a diservice to the player community. > >> Yes, this is a problem. I've considers locking CVS access so that >> only I can commit changes to the server. > It is a bit drastic, however with the different CVS modules so long as there is still some access to modules like maps and arches and with less requirements for server changes now that spells and treasures can be done out of the server code this would be reasonable I suppose. One of the goals of making things modular (like skills and spells and treasure are now - thanks Mark) is that this would be easier to manage and design can be more seperated from server code. > > The root problem here is the questionable code check in, no? > >> One solution could perhaps be something like 'want to put a new >> feature in? Need to fix one of the outstanding bugs' or soemthing. >> But I'd hate to have to enforce such a notion. > > > I'd suggest more something like 'you commit code, fine, it breaks the > game, YOU fix it'. No, if it breaks it is removed makes more sense. You can't force people to fix things correctly, but you can remove buggy code. But on the other hand there has been some good code committed too I believe. > >> I'd also like to see more maps. I don't know why more people aren't >> making them - that seems like one of the more noticable features that >> players would notice, eg, most everyone would see your maps. Good >> maps probably get more acclaim than most any code feature. > > > One thing for making maps is testing. That's why some people wanted a > server for Win32, to test their maps. > Though it seems to me that most people are either players or developers, > thus not making many maps, but more playing or contributing to the code ^_^ Making maps takes a while, another thing is that making maps requires playtesting. I have added a few maps in the last while and a LOT of objects and graphics for mapmaking with pretty much no response from the development community. They are sitting there waiting to be tweeked or responded to. I wouldn't say that there is no work going on in this direction. Of course it is strange that more mapmaking is't happening but then there are a lot of maps waiting to be committed or finished prior to being committed out there. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 13:22:28 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F7D2E55.6070902@laposte.net> References: <3F7D2E55.6070902@laposte.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > You can also check that mail archive: > http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire-devel/2000-January/005078.html > (date seems odd, but it seems it's from after the Metalforge update) The time stamp on the email from/by the sender was incorrect - that's why it was archived in January. It was actually sent right around the time of the update. - Rick Tanner leaf@real-time.com -- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 13:48:22 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F7D913B.60203@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Todd Mitchell wrote: > I really think that the development community has been given a bad > reputation lately and from some people who couldn't take the time to do > even a basic amount of research. This problem has nothing to do with I don't understand this. Y'know what I did, for example? I saw things going wrong, asked somebody, and got this mail list. And wrote some mails. Doing research? No, I don't want to do that. I just tell things I think should be told. That's all. I'm a simple player. I have right to raise my voice. You not like it - kick me from the list (if you had the right...). > the coding side of the project and everything to do with server > administration. Players using 1.5.0 server could continue on a server > for the next 100 years but with no expectation of game enhancements. > I think that perhaps the server listings have been getting lax and that > real messages should be put in place on the metaserver list defining the > release of a server, the client requirements and proper warnings to > players of the server goals. Also if the different server > administrators would work together it should be possible to have some > players (windows DX player) migrated off to a server that would be > pleased to support them and provide a stable code base for their use > (1.5.0 most likely). I think more people are angry at the Metalforge > server being updated than they are with any real development issues, but > are mistakenly equating the two as the same issue. > I also must say that there have been a few very loud voices who are more > interested in stirring up fear and loathing than in resolving any of > these issues. I know that being told that your player will be deleted > is a pretty loaded statement, especially when it is unlikely that any > such policy is being implemented. Also logging into metalforge and > shouting out that your characters are going to be deleted is even more > of a diservice to the player community. Well, IMO players should be treated as humans, not as experimental rats. Why is it stupid to think they have the right to know what's going to happen to them? They are humans, they act as they should act. Keeping things secret just to be sure players won't disagree is unfair (and disgusting). Besides, I think informing players _should_ be done properly anyway. > > > > > >> Yes, this is a problem. I've considers locking CVS access so that > >> only I can commit changes to the server. > > > > It is a bit drastic, however with the different CVS modules so long as > there is still some access to modules like maps and arches and with less > requirements for server changes now that spells and treasures can be > done out of the server code this would be reasonable I suppose. One of > the goals of making things modular (like skills and spells and treasure > are now - thanks Mark) is that this would be easier to manage and design > can be more seperated from server code. > > > > > The root problem here is the questionable code check in, no? > > > >> One solution could perhaps be something like 'want to put a new > >> feature in? Need to fix one of the outstanding bugs' or soemthing. > >> But I'd hate to have to enforce such a notion. > > > > > > I'd suggest more something like 'you commit code, fine, it breaks the > > game, YOU fix it'. > > No, if it breaks it is removed makes more sense. You can't force people > to fix things correctly, but you can remove buggy code. But on the > other hand there has been some good code committed too I believe. > > > > >> I'd also like to see more maps. I don't know why more people aren't > >> making them - that seems like one of the more noticable features that > >> players would notice, eg, most everyone would see your maps. Good > >> maps probably get more acclaim than most any code feature. > > > > > > One thing for making maps is testing. That's why some people wanted a > > server for Win32, to test their maps. > > Though it seems to me that most people are either players or developers, > > thus not making many maps, but more playing or contributing to the code ^_^ > > Making maps takes a while, another thing is that making maps requires > playtesting. I have added a few maps in the last while and a LOT of > objects and graphics for mapmaking with pretty much no response from the > development community. They are sitting there waiting to be tweeked or > responded to. I wouldn't say that there is no work going on in this > direction. Of course it is strange that more mapmaking is't happening > but then there are a lot of maps waiting to be committed or finished > prior to being committed out there. > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 15:30:53 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:11 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7DDC7D.3030700@sympatico.ca> >>I really think that the development community has been given a bad >>reputation lately and from some people who couldn't take the time to do >>even a basic amount of research. This problem has nothing to do with > > > I don't understand this. Y'know what I did, for example? I saw things > going wrong, asked somebody, and got this mail list. And wrote some > mails. Doing research? No, I don't want to do that. I just tell things I > think should be told. That's all. I'm a simple player. I have right to > raise my voice. You not like it - kick me from the list (if you had the > right...). > Vanity will get you everywhere ;) In actual fact I was not thinking of you when mentioning this, but others who were complaining (on IRC and the crossfire forum in actual fact) about percieved issues with development prior to your mail. You certainly have the right to post your views but you will also be responed to accordingly. I personnaly have been quite turned off lately by certain people being rude to me when I've tried to assist them and have decided to start ignoring such messages. As for telling things you think should be told, that's fine too but if you do not take the time to see the issues then you shouldn't expect people to take the time to credit your opinions. > Well, IMO players should be treated as humans, not as experimental rats. > Why is it stupid to think they have the right to know what's going to > happen to them? They are humans, they act as they should act. Keeping > things secret just to be sure players won't disagree is unfair (and > disgusting). > Besides, I think informing players _should_ be done properly anyway. > What was being kept secret? I don't understand where this hostility is coming from. Nothing was being kept secret from anyone. No one was planning on sneaking out in the middle of the night an deleting your player file and there was no conspiracy to mess up players XP on Metalforge. Players using the windows clients have been repeatedly told that these are currently unsupported clients. This is what I meant by minimal research. Aside from having someone sending individual players a candy-o-gram as to changes that may or may not take place I cannot see how you expect to be informed and at the same time expect to do no research. To top it all off I think that you enrirely missed the point I was making. I am assuming you are in all cases talking about problems you are having on the Metalforge crossfire server. These issues really have nothing to do with development and everything to do with that server. There are many different crossfire servers with different implemetations for differnet audiences. Rather than scream at the developers it would be way more productive to spend some time identifying these servers and matching up the audiences to allow players to play the game. A rocksolid mainstream server running 1.5.0 is not the same as a CVS test server or a legacy 1.3.0 server for DX client support (the last version to fully support the features of the DX client including the image caching). Players should be informed and consider this when deciding what sevrer to play on. As far as I am aware Metalforge has always been a test server (targeting something like a beta level functionality) and not a stable server. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 3 21:07:29 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:12 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F7DDC7D.3030700@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Todd Mitchell wrote: > >>I really think that the development community has been given a bad > >>reputation lately and from some people who couldn't take the time to do > >>even a basic amount of research. This problem has nothing to do with > > > > > > I don't understand this. Y'know what I did, for example? I saw things > > going wrong, asked somebody, and got this mail list. And wrote some > > mails. Doing research? No, I don't want to do that. I just tell things I > > think should be told. That's all. I'm a simple player. I have right to > > raise my voice. You not like it - kick me from the list (if you had the > > right...). > > > Vanity will get you everywhere ;) In actual fact I was not thinking of > you when mentioning this, but others who were complaining (on IRC and > the crossfire forum in actual fact) about percieved issues with > development prior to your mail. You certainly have the right to post > your views but you will also be responed to accordingly. I personnaly > have been quite turned off lately by certain people being rude to me > when I've tried to assist them and have decided to start ignoring such > messages. As for telling things you think should be told, that's fine > too but if you do not take the time to see the issues then you shouldn't > expect people to take the time to credit your opinions. > > > Well, IMO players should be treated as humans, not as experimental rats. > > Why is it stupid to think they have the right to know what's going to > > happen to them? They are humans, they act as they should act. Keeping > > things secret just to be sure players won't disagree is unfair (and > > disgusting). > > Besides, I think informing players _should_ be done properly anyway. > > > > What was being kept secret? I don't understand where this hostility is > coming from. Nothing was being kept secret from anyone. No one was Well, as I wanted to tell peepo about the new skill system and it's consequences, some peepo made me think it wouldn't be a good idea, it would make players upset etc. They say there's nothing to tell for sure, but it's not entirely true. It _is_ known that the new skill system is _not_ compatible with the old one, so players _will_ loose their characters. It is _also_ known, that the current 6 main skills will be split into many. As M. Wedel answered these issues was really fair. But I think all the players should know about it. > planning on sneaking out in the middle of the night an deleting your Well, the fact is that some players still don't know about their character's future... > player file and there was no conspiracy to mess up players XP on > Metalforge. Players using the windows clients have been repeatedly told Maybe they have been repetedly told. In the past perhaps. As for me, I'm playing for about 1 year on Metalforge, but noone told me, that the DX client is abandonware, or that anytime may happen that it won't work. Really noone! How should I have known? (Not that I'm using DX client, I play under Linux, but other peepo certainly did use the DX client...) > that these are currently unsupported clients. This is what I meant by > minimal research. Aside from having someone sending individual players > a candy-o-gram as to changes that may or may not take place I cannot see > how you expect to be informed and at the same time expect to do no research. Simple. MOTD (for example) should contain infos about upcoming changes, so players won't be surprised. Anyway, not every player should be familiar with such things. Some just connect to the server, and then some problems turn up. How should he know, what to do? Asks a DM or another player, and he gets this mailing list address. So he wrtites some letters. (Well, it's not the case with me, I wrote here directly, for I have been told that writing _anywhere_else_ would yield no answers...) And that's the reason for asking Metalforge-special questions, not overall devs'. Besides that, as far as I know, Metalforge is currently far the biggest server available. (Well, indeed was, at least.) But, if my tone seemed to be hostile, I apologize for that. I just felt your answers are going to be the standard "net-big-man-talks-to-small-man" thing, aka "Don't whine, if you do, RTFM first, then visit all the webpages and forums, read all mails, read _everything_, then shut up, for your problem is not serious anyway!" Maybe usually this protocoll is fair, but this time it seemed _not_, for we (players) have been waiting for lotsa time and still not getting explanation. (Which IMO should be part of the protocoll.) > > To top it all off I think that you enrirely missed the point I was > making. I am assuming you are in all cases talking about problems you > are having on the Metalforge crossfire server. These issues really have > nothing to do with development and everything to do with that server. > There are many different crossfire servers with different implemetations > for differnet audiences. Rather than scream at the developers it would > be way more productive to spend some time identifying these servers and > matching up the audiences to allow players to play the game. > A rocksolid mainstream server running 1.5.0 is not the same as a CVS > test server or a legacy 1.3.0 server for DX client support (the last > version to fully support the features of the DX client including the > image caching). Players should be informed and consider this when > deciding what sevrer to play on. As far as I am aware Metalforge has > always been a test server (targeting something like a beta level > functionality) and not a stable server. > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 4 01:08:21 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:12 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] player speed idea. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7E63D5.1060405@sonic.net> As said, the game is not meant to be realistic. While having volume in addition to weight would make sense, it is also a lot of work to do - all items would need to hvae a 'volume' field added. Plus, I've played games with volume (eg, some number of slots to carry stuff), and I find them somehat annoying (have to re-arrange stuff for something to fix, etc). Having both volume and weight would probably be really annoying - eg, I have to weight to carry that, but not volume - let me see what is large, and drop that, pick up this dense stuff, etc. I don't think such a change really adds anything. Now one can certainly make the case that characters can carry too much stuff right now. I'd first note that while weights are listed in kg's (kilo grams), I think those weights are out of whack - 100 kg for armor, etc. I think if you did a simple substituion of kg -> lb (eg, keep all the game weights the same, just call it something different), things start to get more reasonable Now characters can carry a whole bunch. But as mentioned before, not 100% if reducing it will make a big difference - it may just mean more trips back and forth to loot the dungeon. If it was extreme enough, it could mean characters can't carry 6 weapons to choose from into battle, but even then, I think you'd just find things more annoying (oh dragon. Let me go fetch by dragonbane). Now changing speed won't fix the problem - some things will still move too slow (arrows, and lightning bolts). But if we give those say a speed of 1.0, or near it, at least now you won't be able to fire an arrow and then run and catch up with it. about the buffering: There is a certain amount of buffering tha happens. You can adjust this on the clients with the 'cwindow' command. If you do 'cwindow 1', basically means the client won't send another command to the server until it gets confirmation that the last one was executed. The ideal value for most people is probably in the 2-3 range. You generally want the server a little ahead of lag (eg, in the 1 case above, you're character won't be doing something many times when he could be). If it is too much, then you get the case you describe - quite pressing the key, and the client keeps on doing something. That isn't directly related to speed. IT's indirectly related in that we are talking 'commands', and if the player has a really slow mean, it may mean they only do 1 command every 10 ticks. So if the cwindow is set to 6, that could be a 60 tick delay between when you stop pressing and the character catches. For meditation, this is actually a bit worse, because meditation takes more player time then usual - most actions take speed 1. I think meditation takes speed 3 or 4. The client could certainly be smarter and more dynamic on the window - the client does know the player speed, so can know for example that player has speed 0.1, so a relative low window is appropriate, but if the player speed if 1.0, a bit higher window could be used. However, the client has no direct way of knowing how much time the command in question takes, so things like meditation would still screw it up a bit. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 4 01:23:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:12 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7E6752.8080401@sonic.net> Few quick notes: One reason for locking CVS access (in selected areas) is simply the fact that there are different modules. There are some number of cases where person was originally granted access in one area, and then unexpectedly moved to another area which wasn't initially envisioned. I care most about the server code simply because that in a sense is the most visible piece - if some code is checked in that breaks functionality, or just makes the server crash, that is much more a problem than most any other issues (image not quite right, etc). I'd also say that there are very few commits which didn't follow procedure. I said in my previous message, 90% are perfectly fine in procedure and practive (number might be higher than that). But one bad one can be quite a pain to fix down the road. And while the idea of 'having the person who introduced the bug fix it' is nice in theory, it doesn't really work for a few reasons: 1) If the bug is serious (frequent server crashes for example), waiting for that person to fix the bug may just not be a viable option. 2) In the process of investigating the bug and laying blame, often times by the time that is done, the fix is equally as obvious. Now for bugs which don't cause crashes/aren't serious, then having the original person who put the code in fix it is the ideal behaviour. But it is sometimes hard to do that. Yanking the code isn't necessarily any better. Point #2 still applies in that case (what code is responsible). But there is also the potential issue of commits done after the offending code was put in. There isn't handy way to pull out just the offending code and leave those later bits in. Plus, there are some number of longstanding bugs or RFE's that aren't related to new code, but would still be nice for those to get fixed. Re metalforge and clients: Metalforge for a long time has been known as a 'runs latest code' server. In fact, I think the metaserver even says it is CVS code. Now in this particular case, metalforge probably got hit a bit worse in that it hadn't had an update for a while before I did the last one, so I think a bunch of things basically changed at once. If it has been done more incrementally, probably not as much stuff would have been hit. The reason metalforge runs CVS code is that's the only way to find bugs. As mentioned elsewhere, the bug related to exp wrapping had been around for _months_ before metalforge was updated, and apparantly no one else ran into it. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 4 03:03:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:12 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] common/loader.[cl] issues for Windows Message-ID: <3F7E7EC2.5070309@laposte.net> Hello. Just grabbed a fresh CVS server to test out the compilation under Windows. One issue that happens all the time is in loader.c Apparently lexx automatically adds #include to the header. But this file doesn't exist for Windows. Any way to ask lexx to put that header between some #ifdef? FYI, only 2 errors apart that... related to int64 / double conversions. Thanks in advance. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 4 04:43:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:12 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] How to unsubscribe? Message-ID: <1065260630.5554.2.camel@debian> How do i unsubscribe from here? I haven't found any email address for unsubscribing, neither an unsubscribe option at https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel ... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 4 07:27:22 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:12 2005 Subject: AW: [CF-Devel] common/loader.[cl] issues for Windows In-Reply-To: <3F7E7EC2.5070309@laposte.net> Message-ID: For a native win32 source you should of course generate loader.c from loader.l at compile time. IMHO loader.c should not be part of cvs because its a generated file. in fact, this has invoked some problems in the past where changes was applied to loader.c instead of loader.l. For daimonin, i have setup the vc ide to call flex to generate loader.c . Under commands for compile options (of single files) you need flex.exe -i -o$(InputDir)\$(InputName).c $(InputPath) and as output $(InputDir)\$(InputName).c Note, that you want give a path for flex.exe so the ide can find it. Is the same under *nix except you have normally always installed a lex/flex there and you can find automatically. And remember thats there a 2nd .l file in random_maps called reader.l - there is the same problem. For a native win32 flex you should grap you native unix tools for windows. Here you get all what you need and more. Not cygwin stupidity or something. http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/ > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: crossfire-devel-admin@lists.real-time.com > [mailto:crossfire-devel-admin@lists.real-time.com]Im Auftrag von Nicolas > Weeger > Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Oktober 2003 10:03 > An: crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > Betreff: [CF-Devel] common/loader.[cl] issues for Windows > > > Hello. > > Just grabbed a fresh CVS server to test out the compilation under Windows. > > One issue that happens all the time is in loader.c > > Apparently lexx automatically adds > #include > to the header. > But this file doesn't exist for Windows. > > Any way to ask lexx to put that header between some #ifdef? > > FYI, only 2 errors apart that... related to int64 / double conversions. > > Thanks in advance. > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 4 05:10:35 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:12 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] How to unsubscribe? In-Reply-To: <1065260630.5554.2.camel@debian> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, LZ wrote: > How do i unsubscribe from here? Everey mail you recieve from this list should contain a highlighted "email list management information" line. You can open it (simlpy hit enter in pine for example, but other mailing programs shoudn't more difficoult either), and the rest will be obvious. > > I haven't found any email address for unsubscribing, neither an > unsubscribe option at > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel ... > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 4 14:42:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:12 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] How to unsubscribe? In-Reply-To: <1065260630.5554.2.camel@debian> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, LZ wrote: > How do i unsubscribe from here? > > I haven't found any email address for unsubscribing, neither an > unsubscribe option at > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel ... Visit that URL and scroll down to the bottom of the page. To change your subscription (set options like digest and delivery modes, get a reminder of your password, or unsubscribe from crossfire-devel), enter your subscription email address: -- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 5 03:03:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:12 2005 Subject: AW: [CF-Devel] common/loader.[cl] issues for Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7FD06C.9010202@laposte.net> > For a native win32 source you should of course generate loader.c > from loader.l at compile time. IMHO loader.c should not be part > of cvs because its a generated file. in fact, this has invoked > some problems in the past where changes was applied to loader.c > instead of loader.l. Thanks for the link, it should help a lot :) > And remember thats there a 2nd .l file in random_maps called reader.l - > there is the same problem. Weird, that one works fine outta the box, err, CVS... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 5 19:38:16 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:13 2005 Subject: AW: [CF-Devel] common/loader.[cl] issues for Windows In-Reply-To: <3F7FD06C.9010202@laposte.net> References: <3F7FD06C.9010202@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F80B978.40308@sonic.net> Few quick notes: No real way to change the generated .c files, other than manually. The reason the .c files are included was to reduce the number of tools you need to compile (don't need lex installed). One could make cases that isn't that big an issue (one could also make the case of require people to have autoconf/automake installed, and thus don't need to include configure or the Makefile.in files. But I think that is a bit much to ask of users). I have no idea why the other .l files don't have the same problem. It could be flex is smart enough to only include those header files it thinks it needs. Or it could just be that reader.l/reader.c haven't changed in more than 2 years, and that older version of lex used to generate them didn't put unistd.h in all files. Which means it could break in the future. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 5 22:57:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:13 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] DM Mode & non-peaceful quirk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F80E81A.6040905@sonic.net> Rick Tanner wrote: > I noticed on Metalforge today that a player turned off peaceful so they > could attack another player. > > As the DM, I went to summon this person into jail, but as they tried to > step off the teleporter they would always walk into (attack) the DM and > die. > > I'm not sure how to prevent or avoid this, was it an error on my side or > is this a server/coding issue? Catching up on old messages. It seems proper to me that non peaceful players would attack anything, including the DM. Perhaps something so that players don't attack dm's would be in order? What's a little confusing is why he would die. Unless the dm tried to step into the player, I can't really see why attacking the dm he would take damage. In fact, looking at the code, it appears there is specific case of 'if target is dm, they never take damage'. Is there any mention of what killed the player? OTOH, arguably this isn't terrible in this particular case (I don't feel too sorry if a pk'er gets killed). But I could see other situations where dm summons someone, and you don't want them to die. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 5 23:07:42 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:13 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Random map shops bug In-Reply-To: <20030510123848.GA32703@crystal> References: <20030510123848.GA32703@crystal> Message-ID: <3F80EA8E.80004@sonic.net> H. S. Teoh wrote: > I noticed recently on metalforge that shops in random maps sometimes > spills out unpaid items outside the shop. Not sure why this is happening; > likely because monsters are placed inside the shop already? Hard to say. Looking at the code, it appears the shop mat function does nothing to remove objects that monsters may somehow have in their inventory that are unpaid. I'll add a little code to do that. Not sure if this will fix the problem or not. But it can't hurt. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 6 02:02:58 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:13 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] cfclient 1.5.0 segmentation fault by window resizing In-Reply-To: <20030516151846.GA7059@crystal> References: <20030514192642.19964.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com> <3EC4919F.6020306@sonic.net> <20030516151846.GA7059@crystal> Message-ID: <3F8113A2.8070004@sonic.net> H. S. Teoh wrote: > On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 12:22:07AM -0700, Mark Wedel wrote: > >>Claudio Fontana wrote: >> >>>Here are some details: >> >> Does it always crash when you resize the window? Is this making the >> window bigger/smaller (taller/wider?) What about other options like >>scrollback size and what not? >> >> Easier to fix these types of bugs if I can reproduce it locally - also >> easier to verify that it is really fixed. > > [snip] > > This is unrelated, but since we're talking about cfclient bugs... I've > consistently seen cfclient crash with Invalid GC X protocol errors. As an > ugly hack, I've added code to register an Xlib error handler so that > cfclient doesn't crash; but the result is that when these invalid GC's > start to happen, random images on the map or the inventory start to > vanish. > > It seems that somewhere, cfclient is somehow forgetting that a GC has > already been deleted (or perhaps a GC number got corrupted?), and tries to > draw a tile with an invalid GC. One observation is that when this happens, > it consistently happens to the same png image (often one frame of an > animated tile) until the tile is out of sight, whereupon it will start > happening to another tile. Also, once it starts to happen, it never goes > away, but only gets worse (more tiles start getting corrupt GC values). > > Any clues on what's causing this? It's getting rather annoying since I > have to restart the client every once in a while so that I don't miss > objects that have become invisible because their image has a bad GC. The x11 client now in CVS should be usable with big images. There were numerous things that were broken. Worse was a buffer overflow when rendering the images (that code, included the ximage used, assumed images would be 32x32). There were also other bugs related to not filling in proper head/tail information in the map structure, and the_map structure not really being big enough. There is still the problem of disappearing buildings, which I believe is a problem on the server code, but not 100% sure, so have to take a closer look. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 6 10:21:41 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:13 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] cfclient 1.5.0 segmentation fault by window resizing In-Reply-To: <3F8113A2.8070004@sonic.net> References: <20030514192642.19964.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com> <3EC4919F.6020306@sonic.net> <20030516151846.GA7059@crystal> <3F8113A2.8070004@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F818885.7080809@sympatico.ca> One thing that might be a good idea would be to package up a new set of the client code for downloading so that players can more easily get back to playing with the client if they are having problems (especially x11 users). I know that usually the code is packaged when there is a server release, but in this case maybe putting up a new tarball (no RPM, just the sourcecode and new image collection) on sourceforge as a 1.5.xbeta package marked for use with newer servers would be good. As far as i know the fixed client should be pretty backwards compatable even if it has a few quirks. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 6 01:20:49 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:13 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] DM Mode & non-peaceful quirk In-Reply-To: <3F80E81A.6040905@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Mark Wedel wrote: > Rick Tanner wrote: > > I noticed on Metalforge today that a player turned off peaceful so they > > could attack another player. > > > > As the DM, I went to summon this person into jail, but as they tried to > > step off the teleporter they would always walk into (attack) the DM and > > die. Sidenote: Something like this happened to me as well in the Arena. (Simply standing and doing nothing I can kill low level characters who simply run into me. Sounds strange, tho this char worships Ruggilli, so it may have been immolation, but it happened in all of a sudden and the death/kill message doesn't show the cause as immolation, and it's true mice and kobolds live longer against it. So I think it was not immolation. Thought I mention that, maybe something's wrong with this peacefull/not peacefull thing. > > > > I'm not sure how to prevent or avoid this, was it an error on my side or > > is this a server/coding issue? > > Catching up on old messages. > > It seems proper to me that non peaceful players would attack anything, > including the DM. Perhaps something so that players don't attack dm's would be > in order? > > What's a little confusing is why he would die. Unless the dm tried to step > into the player, I can't really see why attacking the dm he would take damage. > In fact, looking at the code, it appears there is specific case of 'if target is > dm, they never take damage'. > > Is there any mention of what killed the player? > > OTOH, arguably this isn't terrible in this particular case (I don't feel too > sorry if a pk'er gets killed). But I could see other situations where dm > summons someone, and you don't want them to die. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 6 11:08:06 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:13 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Some Python things Message-ID: <3F819366.30209@sympatico.ca> There are three things about the python plugin I want to mention, two small issues and a JavaEditor change I would like to suggest. 1. Python Plugin: SetQuantity() does not refresh the object so you do not notice when the quantity has changed until the object is moved. 2. Python Plugin: Event options seem to return 'Python' and not the string used in the object (e.g. event_say_options myMessageBoard returns 'Python'). 3. It would be great in the Java editor to be able to set event options in the python script handling section (or I just don't know how.) Prior to adding the script handling parts (nice BTW) you could edit the line event_x_options but now this is not available. An option field you could fill in when a script is hooked would be great. Like you select event say, set the associated script and fill in an option field. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 6 11:12:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:13 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] DM Mode & non-peaceful quirk In-Reply-To: <3F80E81A.6040905@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Mark Wedel wrote: > It seems proper to me that non peaceful players would attack anything, > including the DM. Perhaps something so that players don't attack dm's would be > in order? Yes, that would be helpful. In this instance, I was trying to summon the player into Jail. Since there was a small delay between the summon to the "jail term chamber" and the teleport to the jail cell - the player would run/attack me as the DM and die (and get teleported back to their save bed area) > What's a little confusing is why he would die. Unless the dm tried to step > into the player, I can't really see why attacking the dm he would take damage. > In fact, looking at the code, it appears there is specific case of 'if target is > dm, they never take damage'. As the dm, I did not suffer any damage. The player did though. > Is there any mention of what killed the player? Yes, it said that my character killed the player. I did not step or move towards them. It was like my character automatically returned the attack. > OTOH, arguably this isn't terrible in this particular case (I don't feel too > sorry if a pk'er gets killed). But I could see other situations where dm > summons someone, and you don't want them to die. In this case, trying to send them to jail but if they die before the are teleported - then the DM has to resummon them and try again. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 6 11:15:16 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] DM Mode & non-peaceful quirk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F819514.4050804@sympatico.ca> > > Sidenote: Something like this happened to me as well in the Arena. > (Simply standing and doing nothing I can kill low level characters who > simply run into me. Sounds strange, tho this char worships Ruggilli, so it > may have been immolation, but it happened in all of a sudden and the > death/kill message doesn't show the cause as immolation, and it's true > mice and kobolds live longer against it. So I think it was not immolation. > Thought I mention that, maybe something's wrong with this peacefull/not > peacefull thing. It's because sometimes you hit back when someone attacks you. Peaceful mode is not new BTW, it is just more visible now. This hitback should still be covered under friendly fire when you are peaceful and someone attacks you, but remember friendly fire still does some damage and does not effect some attacks. Now you shouldn't be able to hit a DM at all so they shouldn't hit back automatically however. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 6 11:30:32 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] DM Mode & non-peaceful quirk In-Reply-To: <3F80E81A.6040905@sonic.net> References: <3F80E81A.6040905@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031006133032.478ce0e1.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Hi all! > > As the DM, I went to summon this person into jail, but as they tried to > > step off the teleporter they would always walk into (attack) the DM and > > die. Something very alike happened to me some time ago. > It seems proper to me that non peaceful players would attack anything, > including the DM. Perhaps something so that players don't attack dm's would > be in order? > > What's a little confusing is why he would die. Unless the dm tried to step > into the player, I can't really see why attacking the dm he would take damage. > In fact, looking at the code, it appears there is specific case of 'if target > is dm, they never take damage'. I didn't take a look at the code, but it seems to me really strange that when a non peaceful player moves into any other player it gets automatically hurt by the attacked player, so the victim turns to be the killer with it's bad consequences too. I don't think this should work that way, but i don't know if there was some specific intention when this behaviour was decided (if it was). But, if that is the desired behaviour then there is another issue about this... cause players may wonder "why do I automatically attack a player when he attacks me but not when a monster attacks me?" That's why I think this shouldn't happen. > Is there any mention of what killed the player? When it happened to me it was with melee, even after i readied no skill, and again when i unwielded the weapon i killed him with karate iirc. > OTOH, arguably this isn't terrible in this particular case (I don't feel too > > sorry if a pk'er gets killed). But I could see other situations where dm > summons someone, and you don't want them to die. Actually there was a very special time when a new player was learning the game and a pker entered, so i asked him to type peaceful to turn on his peaceful mode again, he didnt do it, but the new player did cause he thought i was talking to him, turning the server into a whole huge mess for some long minutes. Hope this information is helpful. Katia. -- +-----------------------------+ | Karla M? Stenger S?bat | | Pando . Canelones . Uruguay | | kstenger@montevideo.com.uy | +-----------------------------+ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 6 11:26:52 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] DM Mode & non-peaceful quirk In-Reply-To: <20031006133032.478ce0e1.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> References: <3F80E81A.6040905@sonic.net> <20031006133032.478ce0e1.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Message-ID: <3F8197CC.8000709@sympatico.ca> I bet that Karate was involved, Karate gives you a hitback ability when you get hit. Now and DMs do not take damage but DM's with Karate do hit back. DM's should probably not be set as no_pass since they can walk through players but players cannot walk through them. Maybe it is the alive flag? _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 7 01:48:28 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] DM Mode & non-peaceful quirk In-Reply-To: <3F8197CC.8000709@sympatico.ca> References: <3F80E81A.6040905@sonic.net> <20031006133032.478ce0e1.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <3F8197CC.8000709@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3F8261BC.7080903@sonic.net> I'll fix up the code. Currently, if you attack another player, that player gets an automatic hitback unless they have already attacked. The player that does the hit back does not have any bad effects if they kill the other player - code is specially in place to handle that. I've made some changes so that if your on the battleground or the wiz, you don't hit back. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 7 08:59:53 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills Message-ID: <3F82C6D9.3000705@laposte.net> Hello. Been playing on Metalforge's test server, crossfire.metalforge.net Pretty nice, new skill system seems to work fine. Small suggestion: for skills that can't have experience, like meditation or levitation, don't show experience, since not applicable :) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 7 20:27:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Idea: Resting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031008012730.86994.qmail@web21310.mail.yahoo.com> > Also make sp/hp recovering bonus low the first ticks/secs, and higher > if you sleep more (once again, makes it less interesting to sleep one > round during a fight). If you fall asleep during combat, you wont survive long B-). http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 7 20:47:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Client display issues In-Reply-To: <1065114313.7689.11.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> Message-ID: <20031008014755.92125.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Preston Crow wrote: > Anyway, the problem is that when something is on the screen when you > last saw the square, and the square becomes visible again, it is still > displayed there even if it isn't really there anymore. This is most > common with area-effect spells and monsters. The simplest way to > demonstrate this is to use some spell like burning hands in one > direction and then run in the opposite direction while the fire is still > on-screen. Wait briefly for the fire to die, and more back--you'll see > it still there. It is also easy to see if you have a high speed, and you run back and forward. You will see multiple images of yourself. http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 7 21:04:43 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F7D06DE.4060307@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031008020443.94828.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> I'm not one to complain, but since the subject was brought up ... --- Mark Wedel wrote: > I'm particularly annoyed about this because I'm basically the only one > that goes and fixes the bug, so when people check in questionable code, > it comes to me to fix it. > > Some of the problem is that everyone is a volunteer, so it only makes > sense that people want to work on those cool new features and not spend > down time tracking down and fixing bugs. > > One solution could perhaps be something like 'want to put a new feature > in? Need to fix one of the outstanding bugs' or soemthing. But I'd hate > to have to enforce such a notion. > > I'd also like to see more maps. I don't know why more people aren't > making them - that seems like one of the more noticable features that > players would notice, eg, most everyone would see your maps. Good maps > probably get more acclaim than most any code feature. I have been discouraged by a lack of response to the bug fixes I have posted to the list, and the lack of help for getting around my CVS problems. Sourceforge limits CVS access to people that have no account so that I cannot get a CVS download most of the time. The alternate daily snapshot site seems to have gone away. I have asked that read only access be granted to me but with no response. Yet, I am informed that it is best if I make my changes to the most recent CVS version. My first patch post was a collection of bug fixes and new features. The few times I have managed to download recent CVS copies, I have seen very little sign of my bug fixes, but a small sign of my features being commited. In fact, one of my bug fixes was in two parts, only the first part got applied, and I suspect it is because someone else came up with the same bug fix, except they only half fixed it. My second was a set of maps and python scripts. A lot of good discussion was generated around that, and I know what needs to be fixed. However, even though the list seemed to agree that my large forest was a good idea, and I had provided a script to make the changes, AND the changes didn't actually interfere with the new ring of mountains, I have not seen any sign of a any of it being committed. Oops, I'm getting kicked off the net any second now. A quick summary, please give me at least read access to the CVS, and you will see more of what you ask for out of me. http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 7 23:16:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills In-Reply-To: <3F82C6D9.3000705@laposte.net> References: <3F82C6D9.3000705@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F838F93.8060105@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > Been playing on Metalforge's test server, crossfire.metalforge.net > Pretty nice, new skill system seems to work fine. > > Small suggestion: for skills that can't have experience, like meditation > or levitation, don't show experience, since not applicable :) Well, doing that is a little bit of work to do. My personally thought is that all skills should have the potential to gain exp/levels in. Whether this is special quest rewards or just each time you use the skill (eg, meditate and get 5 exp in meditation). In tha later case, that exp should not contribute to your overall level. Thus, someone could start a character and meditate for 3 days straight and be level 30 in meditation, but still only a level 1 character. Arguably, all skills that incur no risk should perhaps not contribute anything to your overall exp (skills I can think of in this category are search, literacy, item identification skills, climbing, etc). Now one may ask what is the purpose of having a level in meditation: I could certainly see something that higher level means it takes less time or you get back more each time you meditate. Likewise, one could have something for levitation that you can only levitate for so long, before you need to rest. Higher levitation skill means you can levitate for longer or need less rest between attempts. If a player decides to log in and have there character meditate for 3 days, that's up to them. doesn't increase their overall exp, and is probalby no worse than some other abuses (set character up near a generator and have the character cast some spell periodically (eg, think of a level 10 character near an orc generate. Every 5 seconds or something it casts burning hands centered on himself. After a night of that, even at 10 exp/orc or whatever, you'd end up with a tidy amount of exp). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 7 23:33:12 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <20031008020443.94828.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031008020443.94828.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F839388.4020509@sonic.net> David Seikel wrote: > Sourceforge limits CVS access to people that have no account so that I > cannot get a CVS download most of the time. The alternate daily snapshot > site seems to have gone away. I have asked that read only access be > granted to me but with no response. Yet, I am informed that it is best if > I make my changes to the most recent CVS version. I received a mail recently by sourceforge admins saying that the anon cvs problems will be fixed soon - they are adding a bunch of hardware to tackle the problem. I don't remember seeing a request about read only access (but could have forgotten). However, the model of access the sourceforge uses doesn't really allow that to simply be done (they use hybrid cvs software, and different method to control authentication). So to grant an account read-only access requires much more extensive work with sourceforge than if the site was using a straight version of CVS. > > My first patch post was a collection of bug fixes and new features. The > few times I have managed to download recent CVS copies, I have seen very > little sign of my bug fixes, but a small sign of my features being > commited. In fact, one of my bug fixes was in two parts, only the first > part got applied, and I suspect it is because someone else came up with the > same bug fix, except they only half fixed it. Well, I've recently (in the past few days) applied some of your fixes. Some of them I didn't take, because the code they modified had already been radically changed (skill stuff for example). Normally, patches get applied reasonably quickly. But when working on the skill and spell stuff, I realized that if I was spending a lot of time dealing with such patches and other changes - time that I really didn't have if I ever wanted to finish that other code. So I just tucked away those patches to review later, which I'm doing to some extent now. I can't really comment on partially applied patches. I'm speaking generally here, and not about your patches in particular, but in some cases, patches are submitted which fix the bug on the patchee's system, but isn't a good general fix. which leaves it to the person applying to patche to make it more general. Or in other cases, it seems like in parallel, someone else already fixed the problem. It's often that in such cases one looks and says 'looks like that is fixed, I'll ignore that bit'. > > My second was a set of maps and python scripts. A lot of good discussion > was generated around that, and I know what needs to be fixed. However, > even though the list seemed to agree that my large forest was a good idea, > and I had provided a script to make the changes, AND the changes didn't > actually interfere with the new ring of mountains, I have not seen any sign > of a any of it being committed. I've generally left most of the map dealing with other people. In any case, I'd need to know your sourceforge account name before I can give you CVS access. As said above, it would be read/write access, but I'll trust you don't do anything bad - of the patches I've seen you do, they all seem fine, and if you do do something bad, I can always undo it. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 8 02:27:25 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] unipart monsters In-Reply-To: <3ED019F4.5090504@sympatico.ca> References: <3ED019F4.5090504@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3F83BC5D.1070005@sonic.net> Todd wrote: > here is a screenshot of a 4x4 ent arch done as a single tile. The > overlapping parts of the graphic tend to get put behind objects on the > other tiles, not infront as you would expect. This is fixed in the checkins I just did. Also, in my fairly minimal testing, the problem of buildings 'disappearing' is also fixed. I was certainly able to get some reproducible test cases, and it no longer happens after the changes I made. I've just updated crossfire.metalforge.net with those latest changes. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 8 02:57:59 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills In-Reply-To: <3F838F93.8060105@sonic.net> References: <3F82C6D9.3000705@laposte.net> <3F838F93.8060105@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F83C387.9000407@laposte.net> > My personally thought is that all skills should have the potential to > gain exp/levels in. Whether this is special quest rewards or just each > time you use the skill (eg, meditate and get 5 exp in meditation). Hum yeah, didn't see it that way, but sounds nice :) > In tha later case, that exp should not contribute to your overall > level. Thus, someone could start a character and meditate for 3 days > straight and be level 30 in meditation, but still only a level 1 character. > > Arguably, all skills that incur no risk should perhaps not contribute > anything to your overall exp (skills I can think of in this category are > search, literacy, item identification skills, climbing, etc). That's the hardest point to decide, I think: what is overall experience? How do you define it in relation with other skills? For instance: using alchemy incurs some risk, so should contribute to overall experience. But reading a scroll (non-spell one) forces you to read, thus gives some reading experience, which could arguably contribute to overall experience. Maybe I'm about to propose something bad or hard to implement, but well... I'd suggest some intermediary levels. For instance, a level related to physical resistance, which would go up with fighting (clawing, melee, missile, ...) skills. Hit points would depend on that particular skill's experience. Arguably there could be a magic overall level, combining pyromancy, evoker, ..., and influencing spell points. And a global level, which would just be a prestige one, not deciding for hit points. So a character could be level 50 magic but have only low hit points (after all we all know magicians are weak physically :)), or 50 phys & many hitpoints. That would solve the issue of levitation / meditation / literacy not mattering for hitpoints (or other things) while retaining some fame for having high levels. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 8 07:56:28 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client for Windows Message-ID: <3F84097C.8010005@laposte.net> Somebdy (aka Philip) did a great work on making GTK client work under Windows. His current sources are at http://www.theperlguru.com/crossfire/ (link straight to sources is http://www.theperlguru.com/crossfire/WinGTK_Client_Src_Sep-25-2003.zip) Maybe we should consider trying to merge his changes to CVS? I partially diff'ed with current CVS, and most seem minor. I *think* his client uses GTK2, though. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 8 08:08:07 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills References: <3F83C387.9000407@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3579.1065618487@www67.gmx.net> In reply to Nicolas Weeger: > > [...] > > Arguably, all skills that incur no risk should perhaps not contribute > > anything to your overall exp (skills I can think of in this category > > are search, literacy, item identification skills, climbing, etc). I fully agree with this. > That's the hardest point to decide, I think: what is overall experience? > How do you define it in relation with other skills? IMO, overall experience should primarily be a measurement of "overall toughness". In the game code, quite often questions come up like "should the player survive this?", "should the player get hit by this, and how much?". Sometimes you can decide such things based on a specific skill or stat value, but in other cases you really need to have an "overall measurement". Take maximum health points for example. While it may be intuitive to base this on a physical skill, it would be really unfair to those wizard/priest classes to get no good health unless training in a physical skill. Another example would be the chance to get infected by a disease. Again, you could base it on physical, but then the magicians and priests would catch every single disease crossing their way. Hence, the overall experience will often decide over life/death situations. For that reason, it makes sense that only those skills contribute to overall exp which actually play a role in combating, and hold the risk to get killed while leveling up that skill. > For instance: using alchemy incurs some risk, so should > contribute to overall experience. > But reading a scroll (non-spell one) forces you to read, > thus gives some reading experience, which could arguably > contribute to overall experience. Both alchemy and literacy do not incur the risk to die, hence they should not contibute IMO. > Maybe I'm about to propose something bad or hard to implement, > but well... I'd suggest some intermediary levels. > For instance, a level related to physical resistance, which would go up > with fighting (clawing, melee, missile, ...) skills. Hit points would > depend on that particular skill's experience. > Arguably there could be a magic overall level, combining pyromancy, > evoker, ..., and influencing spell points. I also tested the new system, and I can really understand your notion. However, I think the main problem here is the split of the magic skill being problematic. After looking at the division of spells and playing with it, I have doubts wether it was a good idea to split magic in four. Wizards are now required to train several seperate skills in order to have control over all attacktypes (like even fire and cold). This puts them at a real disadvantage compared to fighters and priests, which can have all attacktypes while training only one skill. If wizardry was one single skill, it could have full control over spellpoints, which also would seem more appropriate. It's a similar thing with one- and two-handed weapon skill. What this split will probably cause is that fighter-class players pick only the better one of the two and stick with it. Unless we enforce a global rule like "no one handed weapon is allowed to have attacktype x", I see little reason for the split. Two handed weapons taking up the shield slot seems good enough to me, in resepect for diversity. The idea about intermediary levels isn't bad, but it might be hard to implement and also more complicated. I think it might be easier and more appropriate to just not split magic and melee in the first place. AndreasV -- NEU F?R ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - f?r Fotos, Musik, Dateien... Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS, Multimedia-Gru?, GMX FotoService Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.gmx.net +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f?r Mail, Message, More! +++ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 8 08:23:39 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills In-Reply-To: <3579.1065618487@www67.gmx.net> References: <3F83C387.9000407@laposte.net> <3579.1065618487@www67.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3F840FDB.6010907@laposte.net> > IMO, overall experience should primarily be a measurement > of "overall toughness". > > In the game code, quite often questions come up like "should the player > survive this?", "should the player get hit by this, and how much?". > Sometimes you can decide such things based on a specific skill or > stat value, but in other cases you really need to have an > "overall measurement". > Take maximum health points for example. While it may be intuitive > to base this on a physical skill, it would be really unfair to > those wizard/priest classes to get no good health unless training > in a physical skill. So hp depends on physical & magical level, but overall experience accounts for literacy & meditation :) I agree on the unfairness for wiz/pri, would be too nasty... > Both alchemy and literacy do not incur the risk to die, > hence they should not contibute IMO. Err, alchemy IS dangerous :) Take a level 5 char, put 10+ ingredients in a cauldron, use the alchemy skill, you'll be lucky to not die imo ^_^ (mana blast, fire, bomb, monsters, ...) > I also tested the new system, and I can really understand > your notion. However, I think the main problem here is > the split of the magic skill being problematic. > The idea about intermediary levels isn't bad, but it > might be hard to implement and also more complicated. > I think it might be easier and more appropriate to just > not split magic and melee in the first place. Hum I don't mind splitting really different magic skills. After all summoning elementals or using burning hands are not really the same thing. OTOH, icestorm & burning hands do look the same, except one is fire and the other is ice.. Splitting skills though makes the game more 'realistic'. Even if I'm a champion at one hand weapons, I don't know anything about using a bow... Or punching :) > AndreasV Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 8 09:42:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:14 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills References: <3F840FDB.6010907@laposte.net> Message-ID: <6195.1065624170@www67.gmx.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > > Both alchemy and literacy do not incur the risk to die, > > hence they should not contibute IMO. > > Err, alchemy IS dangerous :) > Take a level 5 char, put 10+ ingredients in a cauldron, use > the alchemy skill, you'll be lucky to not die imo ^_^ > (mana blast, fire, bomb, monsters, ...) I thought the risk wasn't that big, but in a way you are right. We could make alchemy contribute to a smaller degree, for example 20% (factor 0.2). > > The idea about intermediary levels isn't bad, but it > > might be hard to implement and also more complicated. > > I think it might be easier and more appropriate to just > > not split magic and melee in the first place. > > Hum I don't mind splitting really different magic skills. After > all summoning elementals or using burning hands are not really > the same thing. OTOH, icestorm & burning hands do look the same, > except one is fire and the other is ice.. > > Splitting skills though makes the game more 'realistic'. > Even if I'm a champion at one hand weapons, I don't know > anything about using a bow... Or punching :) I did not suggest to merge bowyer or punching with weapon combat. What I suggested is to merge the four wizardry, and eventually one/two-handed weapons. It may be realistic, but what I'm more concerned about is the balance between classes and strategies. In the new system, I'm happy to play a fighter or priest, but I would not want to play a wizard. - Would you? While wizardry was still a single skill, I did not have the feeling that wizards had an unfair advantage. Now they need to collect four times the experience to get as strong as before. This may not occur as a big problem while using wizardry as "supporting art", but when trying to raise a true wizard- based character, I believe it hurts. If we leave the wizardry skills seperated, I think the following will happen: Over time, new spells will be added that outweigh the disadvantages but also disturb the idea behind the diversion. For example, someone adds a cold spell to pyromancy, because he is so tired of raising both pyromancy and evocation for that purpose. The next step is that one of the four skills becomes the "main stream" wizardry skill, like pyromancy for example, and the other three skills degrade. We'd have to fight continuously to prevent this from happening. If we merge wizardry now, we can save ourselves all the trouble and have a system which is cleaner and better IMO. AndreasV -- NEU F?R ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - f?r Fotos, Musik, Dateien... Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS, Multimedia-Gru?, GMX FotoService Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.gmx.net +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f?r Mail, Message, More! +++ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 8 11:52:02 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills In-Reply-To: <3579.1065618487@www67.gmx.net> References: <3F83C387.9000407@laposte.net> <3579.1065618487@www67.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3F8440B2.9000203@sympatico.ca> > > I also tested the new system, and I can really understand > your notion. However, I think the main problem here is > the split of the magic skill being problematic. [...] > If wizardry was one single skill, it could have full control > over spellpoints, which also would seem more appropriate. > > It's a similar thing with one- and two-handed weapon skill. > What this split will probably cause is that fighter-class > players pick only the better one of the two and stick with it. > Unless we enforce a global rule like "no one handed weapon > is allowed to have attacktype x", I see little reason for > the split. Two handed weapons taking up the shield slot > seems good enough to me, in resepect for diversity. I have to disagree with this - having one and two handed weapon skills does make a lot of sense and for the reasons you mention- it sort of equates to the different wizard skills. Fighters will either choose one or two handed weapons and stick with that or be generally less good with both depending on the player style. The basic point being that you will not be able to use every weapon with equal skill. (That demon slayer is one handed - sorry Conan...) The only balance I see necessary is generally two handed weapons should be slightly more powerful since you cannot use a shield. Now moving foreward it would make sense to capitalize on this by making special weapons in one class and not having an equilivant in the other weapon class. If someone does create a two handed sword of X try to not have someone else make a one handed sword of X. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 8 14:55:33 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Lost in the Bigforest [was Forgotten child] In-Reply-To: <20031008020443.94828.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031008020443.94828.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F846BB5.3060701@sympatico.ca> > > My second was a set of maps and python scripts. A lot of good discussion > was generated around that, and I know what needs to be fixed. However, > even though the list seemed to agree that my large forest was a good idea, > and I had provided a script to make the changes, AND the changes didn't > actually interfere with the new ring of mountains, I have not seen any sign > of a any of it being committed. > I thought that anonymous CVS had been fixed... Anyway, speaking for someone who was in the previous discussion. I can say a few things: One is I would rather see maps submitted than run a script to generate the effect you want, especially since I believe the script maybe impacted areas of the maps which have been changes in CVS. I would probably have implemented the maps if they had been current but I didn't run the script or try to piece together the stuff you had submitted (I often can't even find the time to commit my own changes). I also think there were some comments made by others about making some changes to the maps which I didn't see addressed (maybe I missed it- sorry). Also, I believe your script turned all mountains to forest - I would like to see the forest you mention but not at the expense of loosing all the mountain terrain in the region... Something more complex to preserve some mixed terrain and rationalize the elevation differences would be nice. I could suggest something perhaps as I have some scripts which will do elevation <-> archetype comparison/changes which could be tweeked to generate some forest based on elevation and existing ground arch (and a random component too?). I did do some forestation just to the north-east of the area you mention and was careful to preserve a mixture of terrain and the elevation information. I was not wanting to commit the python scripts you had submitted since they were based on outdated scripts and didn't use the path finding (thus requiring manual changes to the script during install) and they reworked the existing scripts not to use the shelve module because the shelve module didn't work on your system. I would rather you create new scripts rather than changing the existing ones since they do work well as they are AFAIK and are really simple. As a side note for Banking I just recently seperated the banking code from the post office code and made it more modular so you might look at that rather than reimplement the older stuff. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 8 23:48:26 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client for Windows In-Reply-To: <3F84097C.8010005@laposte.net> References: <3F84097C.8010005@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F84E89A.7020107@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Somebdy (aka Philip) did a great work on making GTK client work under > Windows. > > His current sources are at http://www.theperlguru.com/crossfire/ > (link straight to sources is > http://www.theperlguru.com/crossfire/WinGTK_Client_Src_Sep-25-2003.zip) > > Maybe we should consider trying to merge his changes to CVS? > > I partially diff'ed with current CVS, and most seem minor. > > I *think* his client uses GTK2, though. I could be wrong, but my recollection was that some more work was needed before Philip thought it was ready for CVS inclusion. If that's not the case, then yeah, if the changes don't conflict with it working on unix, those changes should be merged in. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 9 00:13:22 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills In-Reply-To: <6195.1065624170@www67.gmx.net> References: <3F840FDB.6010907@laposte.net> <6195.1065624170@www67.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3F84EE72.3040705@sonic.net> I'll first note that the skill and spell code that is currently in place is really my first pass. I certainly expected some adjustements would be needed. For example, all skills contribute exp to your overall exp total. I should note that as I think about it right now, this is the only thing your overall level is really used for: 1) max hp. 2) item power totals 3) saving throws So it doesn't play a whole bunch into the game. And also note, in the current system, it isn't a case of 'all or nothing for skill exp contributing to overall exp'. You can set it anywhere from 0->100% (actually, you could probably go above 100%, but that would be a bit odd). So you could say 'these skills are relatively safe - we'll give 20% of exp you earn in them to your overall level, but not the full 100%'. Andreas Vogl wrote: > Nicolas Weeger wrote: > > I did not suggest to merge bowyer or punching with weapon > combat. What I suggested is to merge the four wizardry, and > eventually one/two-handed weapons. > > It may be realistic, but what I'm more concerned > about is the balance between classes and strategies. > In the new system, I'm happy to play a fighter or priest, > but I would not want to play a wizard. - Would you? I've done it. It certainly is more difficult, but probably really starts to become more so at a bit higher levels (after all, most low level monsters don't actually have any resistances, so whether you blast them with fire, lightning, or cold, they die equally well). > > While wizardry was still a single skill, I did not have > the feeling that wizards had an unfair advantage. > Now they need to collect four times the experience to > get as strong as before. > This may not occur as a big problem while using wizardry > as "supporting art", but when trying to raise a true wizard- > based character, I believe it hurts. I agree it hurts. IT doesn't take quite 4 times the exp as before, as the table isn't linear. Eg, 5 million in a single skill would be 16. 1.25 million in 4 skilsl would be level 10 in each of them. It may be that 4 wizard skills are too many. It may also be that the way I split them wasn't the best method (spell type). One could certainly do something like have 3 schools of wizardry, red, blue, green, and more or less randomly distribute the spells across them. red school may have small and large fireball, but never did medium fireball, which the blue school has or whatever. However, I did perceive a problem in that more and more spells kept getting added, and it seemed a bit absurd to me that if you start as a wizard, you suddenly have the potential for 150 spells or something. Plus, the different spell classes really meant nothing, except for attunement of your talisman, which you could toss as soon as you found one that was better or learned the skill natively. In the current system, if you choose the summoner class, it really means something. That said, I'd probably be happy to just split wizardry into two skills, but in that case, have them be opposing schools (eg, the black school is secretive and does not let its members join the white school and the white school similarly does not let its member join the black school). Something like that could also add some nice background to the world, toss in a couple guild buildings for each school, etc. Also, in the translation of the spells, I basically kept them the same as they were before. It'd probably also be nice to scale them up a bit, eg, after level 15-20, you basically know every spell, even though your skill goes up to level 110 (or higher). It'd probably be nice to toss some level 20, 30, 40 etc spells in there - maybe not a lot, but at least something so that wizard has something to look forward as they gain levels (ooh, at level 40, I get fireball of mass destruction or something) Even 2 skills would allay my concerns about a wizard just getting tons of spells, as well as reducing a little bit of wizard getting more and more spells. > > If we leave the wizardry skills seperated, I think the > following will happen: > Over time, new spells will be added that outweigh the > disadvantages but also disturb the idea behind the diversion. > For example, someone adds a cold spell to pyromancy, because > he is so tired of raising both pyromancy and evocation > for that purpose. > The next step is that one of the four skills becomes the > "main stream" wizardry skill, like pyromancy for example, > and the other three skills degrade. Well, that is an issue of watching checkins/balance, just any new archetype. We have to watch that some weapon that gives immunities to everything isn't checked in for example. Certainly some skills will be better than others, and that holds true for skills. I think that summoning might not be on par as pyromancy for mass destruction, but lets face it, there are certainly times where having golems/elements are useful, and people will probably use it. Also, as I played it, I find that being somewhat limited to spell types means that things like wands and rods looked interesting again. When as a spell caster I had every attacktype available, I'd pretty much never touch those items (why use them if I have spells). And IMO, having people use wands/rods again certainly isn't a bad thing. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 9 01:36:28 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills In-Reply-To: <3F84EE72.3040705@sonic.net> References: <3F840FDB.6010907@laposte.net> <6195.1065624170@www67.gmx.net> <3F84EE72.3040705@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F8501EC.4010807@laposte.net> > Also, as I played it, I find that being somewhat limited to spell types > means that things like wands and rods looked interesting again. When as > a spell caster I had every attacktype available, I'd pretty much never > touch those items (why use them if I have spells). And IMO, having > people use wands/rods again certainly isn't a bad thing. Except the negative point about rods/wands is that (afaik) they don't give kill exp.... So people will maybe use'em for creating food, healing, but certainly not to kill bad ass monsters... Would be really bad if a player could easily trash all monsters till the big boss he has to kill without getting any exp because it's immune to spells the player knows, thus requires the use of a rod... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 9 01:38:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client for Windows In-Reply-To: <3F84E89A.7020107@sonic.net> References: <3F84097C.8010005@laposte.net> <3F84E89A.7020107@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F850266.6090005@laposte.net> > I could be wrong, but my recollection was that some more work was > needed before Philip thought it was ready for CVS inclusion. > > If that's not the case, then yeah, if the changes don't conflict with > it working on unix, those changes should be merged in. I don't really know, actually. I didn't ask Philip beforehand how he felt about that (i dont often see him on irc), but his client seems to me stable, when i tested it (ok, arguably, it requires much more testing, as i didn't test a lot) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 9 01:54:26 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Suggestion for new skills In-Reply-To: <3F8501EC.4010807@laposte.net> References: <3F840FDB.6010907@laposte.net> <6195.1065624170@www67.gmx.net> <3F84EE72.3040705@sonic.net> <3F8501EC.4010807@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F850622.7080004@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> Also, as I played it, I find that being somewhat limited to spell >> types means that things like wands and rods looked interesting again. >> When as a spell caster I had every attacktype available, I'd pretty >> much never touch those items (why use them if I have spells). And IMO, >> having people use wands/rods again certainly isn't a bad thing. > > > Except the negative point about rods/wands is that (afaik) they don't > give kill exp.... So people will maybe use'em for creating food, > healing, but certainly not to kill bad ass monsters... > Would be really bad if a player could easily trash all monsters till the > big boss he has to kill without getting any exp because it's immune to > spells the player knows, thus requires the use of a rod... Not true in the new skill system - you should once again get exp for using rods and wands to kill something. Now the skill it goes into is 'use magic device', which as of now, is basically pointless (there is no chance of failure with that skill for example). But it also does add to your overall exp level. So its probably not as useful as killing them with a spell you know, but not as useless as it once was. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 9 01:57:40 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply container bug / GTK client question In-Reply-To: <3EDB080D.20008@laposte.net> References: <3EDB080D.20008@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F8506E4.4020606@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hi > >> The cycle should be extended to include unapplied, as otherwise you >> have to go >> through contortions that are not intuitive to get the bag to stop picking >> things up. >> > Actually, the server code does include unapplied. It's just that the GTK > client skips the 'unapplied' part, forcing the container applied again > when closing and unapplying it. > You can unapply the container by clicking (with the mouse) the 'close' > button when it's opened, btw, that works fine (thus this proves the > server does handle unapply :-) > Of course since i almost don't use the mouse when playing, it's a pain, > i just drop the container then pick it again ^_^ This is now fixed in the gtk client via config option. Arguably, it should probably always be in fixed mode. The config option also fixes using bound apply. What was really happening is that when the client got the closed message from the server, it then sent another apply back. I think this was a programming bug in that the close routine used for the apply used the same callback that is used by the closed button (which really did need to send the apply). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 9 02:06:34 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] small cast bug In-Reply-To: References: <3EDB13F3.5080500@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F8508FA.2020007@sonic.net> Magnus Kronhamn wrote: > It seems that 'cast lists the spell costs of your spells according > to your level in the skill youcurrently have active instead of your > level in wizardry/praying. This can be a bit missleading some times. > That should be fixed with the new spell/skill code in place. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 9 02:21:39 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply bug In-Reply-To: <3EDB13F3.5080500@laposte.net> References: <3EDB13F3.5080500@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F850C83.4070808@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hi everyone. > > There is a bug (or weird thing) with the handling of the 'apply' > argument. Or maybe that's the standard behaviour, who knows ^_^;;; > > Let's say i issue 'apply hag'. If i have haggise(s) in inventory, no > trouble, it'll eat'em correctly. But if i don't have any, well, it'll > open a container, wear/unwear bracers, to sum up some random thing > depending on the stacked items in inventory. I tried that, and didn't get that problem. I recall that was fixed sometime recently. > Also if i 'apply bread' and have both 'bread' and 'waybread' in > inventory, i except it to apply the 'bread', since it matches more > precisely than 'waybread'. But the server will pick one of'em depending > on the stack order, too.... That is now fixed in CVS (server). Problem was matching logic - we'd give a relatively low match quality if the passed name matched the unadorned object name. But we checked for that match before checking to see if we'd match on the adorned object name, so we'd return low match quality number even though it could do a good match. I've changed the function so we try for the highest quality matches first, and it now works as expected. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 9 02:31:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Apply bug In-Reply-To: <3F850C83.4070808@sonic.net> References: <3EDB13F3.5080500@laposte.net> <3F850C83.4070808@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F850EEB.1010204@laposte.net> > I tried that, and didn't get that problem. I recall that was fixed > sometime recently. Yes, i sent the patch for that bug myself :) > I've changed the function so we try for the highest quality matches > first, and it now works as expected. Nice! Thanks, and thanks for that apply bug :) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 10 01:17:29 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] minor gtk bug In-Reply-To: <20030624155220.31754.qmail@emc.com> References: <20030624155220.31754.qmail@emc.com> Message-ID: <3F864EF9.7040400@sonic.net> Preston Crow wrote: > Most of us have probably forgotten that you can move using the mouse by > clicking on the square next to you. Anyway, it seems to be hard-coded to > expect the default display size. fixed in CVS. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 10 22:47:08 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] java editor & big images? Message-ID: <3F877D3C.1090205@sonic.net> Sorry if this has been mentioned before. But it seems that the java editor doesn't display big images properly? Within the selection pane, they are displayed properly, so rendering is not an issue. But if I put one of those on a map, then for all the spaces it occupies, it just seems to draw the upper left corner of the image repeated (updates all the appropriate spaces, just not with the correct image). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 10 23:20:04 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] java editor & big images? In-Reply-To: <3F877D3C.1090205@sonic.net> References: <3F877D3C.1090205@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1065846004.543.1.camel@oberon.Kameria> Yes it used to do this, but this was fixed by Andreas a little while back - I have been using it for a while now with large images. On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 23:47, Mark Wedel wrote: > Sorry if this has been mentioned before. But it seems that the java editor > doesn't display big images properly? > > Within the selection pane, they are displayed properly, so rendering is not an > issue. But if I put one of those on a map, then for all the spaces it occupies, > it just seems to draw the upper left corner of the image repeated (updates all > the appropriate spaces, just not with the correct image). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 10 23:43:43 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] java editor & big images? In-Reply-To: <1065846004.543.1.camel@oberon.Kameria> References: <3F877D3C.1090205@sonic.net> <1065846004.543.1.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <3F878A7F.4080402@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: > Yes it used to do this, but this was fixed by Andreas a little while > back - I have been using it for a while now with large images. My bad. I was doing 'ant run' and 'ant compile', and leaving out the 'ant jar', so i was using the old .jar file that I had around since some time past. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 02:32:58 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:15 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Mosely's books bug Message-ID: <3F87B22A.9010607@laposte.net> Hello. On Metalforge's test server, crossfire.metalforge.net, the books in Mosely's Magic Books are broken. Prayer books are fine, but books in shelves are seen as (null) (null) Prolly something related to new skill code... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 02:34:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] 'Apply' suggestion Message-ID: <3F87B29A.3010209@laposte.net> Don't know how easy to do it'd be... It would be nice to have the option to apply a specific item on the floor below us. So on a big pile 'apply food' would eat the food, not the first eatable item. Of course 'apply' prolly can't be used for that, or needs to check first in inventory, then on the floor. One use i see for that: grab many shelves, use rename to give'em distinct names, et voil? you can put'em on the floor and still access the one you want. Just my 2 cents (of ?) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 03:38:05 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F839388.4020509@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031011083805.33987.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Wedel wrote: > David Seikel wrote: > Well, I've recently (in the past few days) applied some of your fixes. > Some of them I didn't take, because the code they modified had already > been radically changed (skill stuff for example). So what do we do now? Do I download CVS and fix the patches, or will you take care of it? > In any case, I'd need to know your sourceforge account name before I > can give you CVS access. As said above, it would be read/write access, > but I'll trust you don't do anything bad - of the patches I've seen you do, > they all seem fine, and if you do do something bad, I can always undo it. My sourceforge account is onefang. Thanks. http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 03:48:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Lost in the Bigforest [was Forgotten child] In-Reply-To: <3F846BB5.3060701@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20031011084850.99386.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd Mitchell wrote: > > One is I would rather see maps submitted than run a script to generate > the effect you want, especially since I believe the script maybe > impacted areas of the maps which have been changes in CVS. I would > probably have implemented the maps if they had been current but I didn't > run the script or try to piece together the stuff you had submitted (I > often can't even find the time to commit my own changes). I don't beleive the script will screw with the new stuff, at least as I saw them at the time we were discuusing this. > I also think > there were some comments made by others about making some changes to the > maps which I didn't see addressed (maybe I missed it- sorry). The comments where about the castle maps (which is in the forest). The castle maps depend on inv_checkers working properly, which is why I fixed the various bugs and submitted them first. Because the inv_checker bugs had not been fixed, there was no point resubmitting the castle maps. > Also, I believe your script turned all mountains to forest - I would > like to see the forest you mention but not at the expense of loosing all > the mountain terrain in the region... Something more complex to > preserve some mixed terrain and rationalize the elevation differences > would be nice. Nope, my script did not change mountains or elevation. It did preserve some mixed terrain. > I was not wanting to commit the python scripts you had submitted since > they were based on outdated scripts and didn't use the path finding > (thus requiring manual changes to the script during install) and they > reworked the existing scripts not to use the shelve module because the > shelve module didn't work on your system. I have upgraded my OS and shelve looks like it works fine now. It looks like I will soon have proper CVS access, so I will download a recent version, double check that my inv_checker patches have been apllied, run my forestation script and patch any problems, then work on fixing the castle problems as discussed ealier (including new scripts). Expect to soon see new maps. http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 05:12:38 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Major crossfire.metalforge.net bug Message-ID: <3F87D796.9060207@laposte.net> Ok, this morning cf.mf.net is really buggy. I'm in dragon nest, ice hatchery. Each time I kill a monster, or remove a trap (haven't checked other things, but those ones are working), the server crashes. It resets to a previous state (and people are taking advantage of that to duplicate items... -.-) I can move, search area to find traps, change skills. But killing something crashes the server. And other players are fine, they can kill zombies (raffle) & such... I tested with latest Win GTK version (the one Somebdy worked on, from september), and previous 0.7 one, does the same thing... Guess i'll wait to timeout enough to get back to apartment :) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 06:24:45 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Some Python things References: <3F819366.30209@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <12527.1065871485@www11.gmx.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: > [...] > > 3. It would be great in the Java editor to be able to set event options > in the python script handling section (or I just don't know how.) Prior > to adding the script handling parts (nice BTW) you could edit the line > event_x_options but now this is not available. An option field you > could fill in when a script is hooked would be great. Like you select > event say, set the associated script and fill in an option field. Event options are currently not supported because I really had no idea about it. In the docs ("doc/Developers/pyhton", "doc/Developers/plugins") event options don't seem to be mentioned, or did I overlook it? Currently, the CFJavaEditor would insert the following for a say event script attached to a map-object: event_say_plugin Python event_say WhateverScript.py How do event options come into play with this? Thanks for help in advance, AndreasV -- NEU F?R ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - f?r Fotos, Musik, Dateien... Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS, Multimedia-Gru?, GMX FotoService Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.gmx.net +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f?r Mail, Message, More! +++ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 08:52:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Some Python things In-Reply-To: <12527.1065871485@www11.gmx.net> References: <3F819366.30209@sympatico.ca> <12527.1065871485@www11.gmx.net> Message-ID: <1065880366.564.25.camel@oberon.Kameria> On Sat, 2003-10-11 at 07:24, Andreas Vogl wrote: > Todd Mitchell wrote: > > > [...] > > > > 3. It would be great in the Java editor to be able to set event options > > in the python script handling section (or I just don't know how.) Prior > > to adding the script handling parts (nice BTW) you could edit the line > > event_x_options but now this is not available. An option field you > > could fill in when a script is hooked would be great. Like you select > > event say, set the associated script and fill in an option field. > > Event options are currently not supported because I really had no idea > about it. In the docs ("doc/Developers/pyhton", "doc/Developers/plugins") > event options don't seem to be mentioned, or did I overlook it? > > Currently, the CFJavaEditor would insert the following for a say event > script attached to a map-object: > > event_say_plugin Python > event_say WhateverScript.py > > How do event options come into play with this? > Well currently the event options are not working properly as far as I know but from looking at the code for the IPO buliten board and the plugin code you can associate a option (a string I presume) with a script by adding somehting like this: arch sign name Scorn Message Board event_say_plugin Python event_say /python/IPO/board.py event_say_options ScornBOARD the board.py script can then use the CFPython.GetOptions(who, event) where who is the object calling the script and event is the type of event, like say (event 6) or apply (event 1?). This lets you pass a string to the script (one script per event per object allowed) and makes things a lot more reusable by letting you set up different states for the scripts based on the options (like a message board name or insult style. Yann can hopefully correct me if I am wrong here. Now currently the plugin GetOptions() method always returns 'Python' but I think that's a glitch and is certainly not the way the plugin was supposed to work. Anyway currently the java editor is reporting the event_say_options field as a new script. Proir to the scripting support you could just edit the text manually in the text window, but now the editor parses these lines so you have to add the options manually to the map file. I think it would be good to have a options field where you can enter this string when you link a script to an object in the editor. I have seen also the line 'event_say_options_plugin X' but don't know where that fits in with all this and am assuming it is a mistake... (?) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 17:41:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch: client display issues Message-ID: <20031011224131.GA20847@idefix2.dvlp.in-medias-res.com> Hello, I fixed some display issues with the x11 (cfclient) and the gtk (gcfclient) client. * server.diff: Fixes disappearing multi-square objects when scrolling the client view right and/or down. * client1.diff: Sometimes objects (especially moving monsters) were not cleared properly, resulting in additional "ghost images". The removed comment is not correct: I think the real problem was the patch in "server.diff". * client2.diff: This patch fixes the problem that multi-square objects hide the player. All diffs are against current CVS. Andreas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 17:46:51 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Re: Patch: client display issues In-Reply-To: <20031011224131.GA20847@idefix2.dvlp.in-medias-res.com> References: <20031011224131.GA20847@idefix2.dvlp.in-medias-res.com> Message-ID: <20031011224651.GA20961@idefix2.dvlp.in-medias-res.com> Sorry, forgot to attach the diffs... -------------- next part -------------- Index: socket/request.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/socket/request.c,v retrieving revision 1.52 diff -w -c -5 -r1.52 request.c *** socket/request.c 13 Sep 2003 05:02:14 -0000 1.52 --- socket/request.c 11 Oct 2003 19:55:23 -0000 *************** *** 1728,1738 **** * area, we clear the values - otherwise, the old values * are preserved, and the check_head thinks it needs to clear them. */ for(x=0; x= ns->mapx || (y+dy) < 0 || y >= ns->mapy) { memset(&(newmap.cells[x][y]), 0, sizeof(struct MapCell)); } else { memcpy(&(newmap.cells[x][y]), &(ns->lastmap.cells[x+dx][y+dy]),sizeof(struct MapCell)); --- 1728,1739 ---- * area, we clear the values - otherwise, the old values * are preserved, and the check_head thinks it needs to clear them. */ for(x=0; x= ns->mapx || x+dx >= ns->mapx ! || y < 0 || y+dy < 0 || y >= ns->mapy || y+dy >= ns->mapy) { memset(&(newmap.cells[x][y]), 0, sizeof(struct MapCell)); } else { memcpy(&(newmap.cells[x][y]), &(ns->lastmap.cells[x+dx][y+dy]),sizeof(struct MapCell)); -------------- next part -------------- Index: gtk/map.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/client/gtk/map.c,v retrieving revision 1.16 diff -w -c -5 -r1.16 map.c *** gtk/map.c 8 Aug 2003 17:06:40 -0000 1.16 --- gtk/map.c 11 Oct 2003 19:39:39 -0000 *************** *** 355,372 **** if( x < 0 || y < 0 || x >= the_map.x || y >= the_map.y) continue; the_map.cells[x][y].need_update= 1; ! /*After long long long investigations on why the multipart objects did ! disappear when entering map view from right or bottom, scrolling ! through whole server code, i concluded the following line should be ! commented. If a multipart object was on a square outside of map, ! containing the tail, tail may be cleared by following process and ! so we end up with things like tower disappearance. ! tchize@myrealbox.com*/ ! /*the_map.cells[x][y].cleared= 1;*/ } } /* for y */ } /* for x */ #ifdef HAVE_SDL --- 355,365 ---- if( x < 0 || y < 0 || x >= the_map.x || y >= the_map.y) continue; the_map.cells[x][y].need_update= 1; ! the_map.cells[x][y].cleared= 1; } } /* for y */ } /* for x */ #ifdef HAVE_SDL -------------- next part -------------- Index: x11/x11.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/client/x11/x11.c,v retrieving revision 1.19 diff -w -c -5 -r1.19 x11.c *** x11/x11.c 6 Oct 2003 07:04:01 -0000 1.19 --- x11/x11.c 11 Oct 2003 19:39:40 -0000 *************** *** 2985,3009 **** return; } XFillRectangle(display,xpm_pixmap,gc_clear_xpm,0,0,image_size,image_size); for (k=0; k0 ) { /* Always draw the lower right corner of the heads. */ gen_draw_face(xpm_pixmap, the_map.cells[mx][my].heads[k].face, 0, 0, (pixmaps[the_map.cells[mx][my].heads[k].face]->width - 1) * image_size, (pixmaps[the_map.cells[mx][my].heads[k].face]->height - 1) * image_size ); got_one = 1; } - if (the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].face >0 ) { - gen_draw_face(xpm_pixmap, the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].face, 0, 0, - (pixmaps[the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].face]->width - the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].size_x - 1) * image_size, - (pixmaps[the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].face]->height - the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].size_y - 1) * image_size - ); - got_one = 1; - } } if (got_one) { if (the_map.cells[mx][my].cleared) { XSetClipOrigin(display, gc_xpm[XPMGCS-1], 0, 0); XSetForeground(display, gc_xpm[XPMGCS-1], discolor[0].pixel); --- 2985,3009 ---- return; } XFillRectangle(display,xpm_pixmap,gc_clear_xpm,0,0,image_size,image_size); for (k=0; k0 ) { + gen_draw_face(xpm_pixmap, the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].face, 0, 0, + (pixmaps[the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].face]->width - the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].size_x - 1) * image_size, + (pixmaps[the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].face]->height - the_map.cells[mx][my].tails[k].size_y - 1) * image_size + ); + got_one = 1; + } if (the_map.cells[mx][my].heads[k].face >0 ) { /* Always draw the lower right corner of the heads. */ gen_draw_face(xpm_pixmap, the_map.cells[mx][my].heads[k].face, 0, 0, (pixmaps[the_map.cells[mx][my].heads[k].face]->width - 1) * image_size, (pixmaps[the_map.cells[mx][my].heads[k].face]->height - 1) * image_size ); got_one = 1; } } if (got_one) { if (the_map.cells[mx][my].cleared) { XSetClipOrigin(display, gc_xpm[XPMGCS-1], 0, 0); XSetForeground(display, gc_xpm[XPMGCS-1], discolor[0].pixel); From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 23:01:02 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Mosely's books bug In-Reply-To: <3F87B22A.9010607@laposte.net> References: <3F87B22A.9010607@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F88D1FE.1080405@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > On Metalforge's test server, crossfire.metalforge.net, the books in > Mosely's Magic Books are broken. > Prayer books are fine, but books in shelves are seen as (null) (null) > Prolly something related to new skill code... More so the spell code. Old spell books for wizards were of one type. There are now 4 types. I believe it is really just a simple matter of updating the map with the new book arches. This would break backwards compatability for this map - as of now, to my knowledge, all maps currently in CVS will work with both 1.5 and CVS code it. Should probably just tag the map directory and get on with fixing up things like that. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 11 23:03:59 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] 'Apply' suggestion In-Reply-To: <3F87B29A.3010209@laposte.net> References: <3F87B29A.3010209@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F88D2AF.9@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Don't know how easy to do it'd be... > > It would be nice to have the option to apply a specific item on the > floor below us. > > So on a big pile 'apply food' would eat the food, not the first eatable > item. > Of course 'apply' prolly can't be used for that, or needs to check first > in inventory, then on the floor. > > One use i see for that: grab many shelves, use rename to give'em > distinct names, et voil? you can put'em on the floor and still access > the one you want. Please file this as an RFE on the crossfire area on sourceforge. A bit of a bother, but some form of tracking is needed - otherwise, it gets deleted from the mailbox, and no one remembers (and new people can't see what needs to be done). I agree this is a reasonable feature. One could argue that name matching could actually be done on the client, which is certainly true. but doing that with something like an 'apply_below' command wouldn't be that hard to do. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 12 03:44:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Common/loader.[lc] bug, player file corruption ahead Message-ID: <3F891480.2020808@laposte.net> Morning. Katia helped me trace the cause of the weird bug on crossfire.metalforge.net Here are some weird things, in loader.c (so in .l): * line 5594: FAST_SAVE_LONG(fastbuf,"subtype ",op->subtype,2); ^^^ should be 8, obviously. And that, i think, may break things later on. * line 5550: sprintf(buf2,"%lld\n", op->stats.exp); the \n shouldn't be there, i think, adds newline in file (not major issue though, prolly) * line 5555: same thing The most serious is the first thing, I correct it right away in CVS. I fix loader.l & loader.c (i fix manually the .c, assuming it's uptodate with .l). (flame me if i shouldn't have) Side note: the addexp dm command adds overall exp, but not to readied skill... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 12 05:13:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Server crash: more info Message-ID: <3F89293F.7060507@laposte.net> Experimented on my local server. There's a bug with dragon abilities, and i think that's why crossfire.metaforge.net crashes. Playing a fire dragon (default attenuation). When i become level 15 i get dragonbreath, but that crashes the server. Explanation, from player.c:3073 item = &(tr->item->clone); /* grant direct spell */ if (item->type == SPELLBOOK) { if (check_spell_known (who, item->inv->name)) return; with tr->item->name == "spelldirect_dragonbreath" except item->inv is NULL so breaks at item->inv->name That explains why only I would crash cf.mf.net, since i'm (for now) the only fire dragon, and i'm REALLY close to getting level 15... So killing something gets me over the edge, and crashes with null pointer... Now I don't know enough about the new skill system to fix that... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 12 12:43:53 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Re: [Crossfire-cvs] CVS commit: CFJavaEditor/src/cfeditor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1065980633.543.1.camel@oberon.Kameria> > Also added support for script event options. > > --AndreasV Thanks, great work as usual AV. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 12 10:53:35 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Crossfire maps updated: Mlab (scorn tavern - verytall tower - zelots house etc) Message-ID: Message-Id: <20031012144119.16EAE43BF@caethaver2.ath.cx> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:41:19 -0400 (EDT) From: mikeeusa@caethaver2.ath.cx (www-data) Mlab v3 has been released. (Includes 'scorn tavern' [the one you need a password to in bigworld] with the tower to the skys, citydeclouds. also includes work on a new area/island not connected in yet that has an entrance to the mazes of menace ala 'falconseye.) page: https://caethaver2.ath.cx/cat2/media.html https://cat2.ath.cx/cat2/media.html direct link: (979KB) https://caethaver2.ath.cx/cat2/crossfiremaps-mlab-R3.tar.gz https://cat2.ath.cx/cat2/crossfiremaps-mlab-R3.tar.gz enjoy. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 13 02:06:06 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Server crash: more info In-Reply-To: <3F89293F.7060507@laposte.net> References: <3F89293F.7060507@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F8A4EDE.2000306@laposte.net> Actually you should read 'level 16', but the rest is ok... Nicolas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 13 16:09:18 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge Message-ID: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> Hi! These are some bugs I noticed while playing on the new crossfire.metalforge server: - I cannot use or ready the woodsman skill that I learned from a scroll, although 'skills says I have it. ("Unable to find the skill woodsman"/"You have no knowledge of the skill woodsman") - The server crashes when I kill a grimreaper. I tried fire and holy word, but didn't dare to get too close, so this might need further investigation. - I dropped some spellbooks in my Permanent Apartment in Scorn, but didn't go to sleep yet. I typed 'save several times while playing, then came back to my apartment, and suddenly the books had turned into spell and prayer books of the same type, but all different spells. This is annoying, since they were books of higher level spells that I wanted to learn later. I wonder if I can get other rare books that way? My character is Jagol, a dwarven wizard. Other notes: I find it very hard to get sorcerer exp, since the only damaging spells that I found below level 7 are sparks shower, magic missile and magic bullet; they are all level 1, and it's very tedious to reach lvl 7 that way. I think we need more spells to fill the gap here. Getting summoner exp is also difficult. I tried the pet monsters in a room full of mice: But after a while, the pets didn't attack the mice any more, although they were surrounded by mice. Is this intended behaviour? Bye Jochen -- Jochen Suckfuell --- http://www.suckfuell.net/jochen/ --- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 13 16:27:45 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:16 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <3F8B18D1.20200@laposte.net> I will add the following bugs I found while playing: * the dragon ability server crash I mentioned in a previous mail * I lost Gaea's specific resistances. Don't know exactly when, but I was worshipping her without the -100 fear +100 drain and so on. Praying to Valriel, then back to Gaea fixed the bug. Nicolas / 'Ryo' / 'Kaori' (on the test server) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 14 00:51:27 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <3F8B8EDF.60107@sonic.net> Jochen Suckfuell wrote: > Hi! > > These are some bugs I noticed while playing on the new > crossfire.metalforge server: > > - I cannot use or ready the woodsman skill that I learned from a scroll, > although 'skills says I have it. ("Unable to find the skill > woodsman"/"You have no knowledge of the skill woodsman") Unable to reproduce that. Note that skills command doesn't mean you can use the skill. skills shows skills that you somehow know. For example, lockpicking is a skill you can gain exp in and the like, and thus show up in 'skills', but not something you can use with a tool. Perhaps the correct method is to display a * or somethign for skills that you need tools to use (eg, don't know natively). > > - The server crashes when I kill a grimreaper. I tried fire and holy > word, but didn't dare to get too close, so this might need further > investigation. Fixed. > > - I dropped some spellbooks in my Permanent Apartment in Scorn, but > didn't go to sleep yet. I typed 'save several times while playing, then > came back to my apartment, and suddenly the books had turned into spell > and prayer books of the same type, but all different spells. This is > annoying, since they were books of higher level spells that I wanted to > learn later. I wonder if I can get other rare books that way? Should now be fixed. In theory, you could get any spell tha would normally show up in that type of spellbook (eg, you couldn't get special quest spells). The problem was that it was re-generating the treasure each time the map got loaded. This was actually true for any item that had randomitems in the apartment. > > My character is Jagol, a dwarven wizard. > > Other notes: > I find it very hard to get sorcerer exp, since the only damaging spells > that I found below level 7 are sparks shower, magic missile and magic > bullet; they are all level 1, and it's very tedious to reach lvl 7 that > way. I think we need more spells to fill the gap here. > > Getting summoner exp is also difficult. I tried the pet monsters in a > room full of mice: But after a while, the pets didn't attack the mice > any more, although they were surrounded by mice. Is this intended > behaviour? The number of spell schools perhaps needs to be reduced down to two, simply as splitting into 4 may have been doo many. The pet monsters should still keep attacking the mice - don't know why they would stop. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 14 00:51:58 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <3F8B18D1.20200@laposte.net> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8B18D1.20200@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F8B8EFE.6000208@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > I will add the following bugs I found while playing: > > * the dragon ability server crash I mentioned in a previous mail > > * I lost Gaea's specific resistances. Don't know exactly when, but I was > worshipping her without the -100 fear +100 drain and so on. Praying to > Valriel, then back to Gaea fixed the bug. > We'd need to figure out how that got lost. Otherwise, trying to find that problem is pretty much a shot in the dark. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 14 01:33:38 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Common/loader.[lc] bug, player file corruption ahead In-Reply-To: <3F891480.2020808@laposte.net> References: <3F891480.2020808@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F8B98C2.2080606@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Morning. > > Katia helped me trace the cause of the weird bug on > crossfire.metalforge.net > > Here are some weird things, in loader.c (so in .l): > * line 5594: > FAST_SAVE_LONG(fastbuf,"subtype ",op->subtype,2); > ^^^ > should be 8, obviously. And that, i think, may break things later on. Yeah, that is wrong. Really, all the fast_save routines should be coded to do a strlen of the passed string. > > * line 5550: > sprintf(buf2,"%lld\n", op->stats.exp); > the \n shouldn't be there, i think, adds newline in file (not major > issue though, prolly) > > * line 5555: same thing Yeah, extra blank lines don't really harm anything. > > The most serious is the first thing, I correct it right away in CVS. > I fix loader.l & loader.c (i fix manually the .c, assuming it's uptodate > with .l). > (flame me if i shouldn't have) > > Side note: the addexp dm command adds overall exp, but not to readied > skill... addexp should be modified to take a paramater on what skill to to reward exp to. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 14 01:45:04 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch: client display issues In-Reply-To: <20031011224131.GA20847@idefix2.dvlp.in-medias-res.com> References: <20031011224131.GA20847@idefix2.dvlp.in-medias-res.com> Message-ID: <3F8B9B70.7080804@sonic.net> Andreas Kirschbaum wrote: > Hello, > > I fixed some display issues with the x11 (cfclient) and the gtk (gcfclient) > client. > > > * server.diff: Fixes disappearing multi-square objects when scrolling the > client view right and/or down. Is thie still a problem after the changes I did a week or so ago? I didn't see any drawing issues after I made that change. So I'm wondering if the if that patch is still needed. One could state 'well, what's the harm if it doesn't break anything more'. Well, the real issue is that it's just more data being sent down the wire - it'd be very easy to write a mechanism to just send every bit of data down the wire, but that isn't bandwidth friendly. So one has to be careful what changes one makes to such code so that we don't send excessive amounts of data that we don't need to send. > > > * client1.diff: Sometimes objects (especially moving monsters) were not > cleared properly, resulting in additional "ghost images". > > The removed comment is not correct: I think the real problem was the > patch in "server.diff". Actually, I think that is the real problem there. The client having any idea of knowing what is off the screen is purely wrong - the only valid off screen data is the bigimages, but that comment doesn't make any distinction on that. So almost certainly what was happening is that off the screen the stack may have been something like floor, empty, orc. The orc disappears while the space is not visible. When that space is then visible, the client says 'there is a floor on this space', which is perfectly correct, but with that comment, the data was never cleared, so that the client thought it should display a floor and orc again, so that orc remains displayed. I know for 100% that the problem was purely client issue - simply put, if you used an older client, you'd never have the problem. So most likely that fix was put in place for one thing, which broke something else. > > > * client2.diff: This patch fixes the problem that multi-square objects > hide the player. > > I tried that - you basically reversed the order of display. I tried that to correct some display issues, but found it created other display issues. I think it related to if you have big objects stacking over each other, but maybe I tried that reversal before I made the other changes. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 14 01:49:09 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <20031011083805.33987.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031011083805.33987.qmail@web21306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F8B9C65.9070100@sonic.net> David Seikel wrote: > --- Mark Wedel wrote: > David Seikel wrote: > >> Well, I've recently (in the past few days) applied some of your fixes. >> Some of them I didn't take, because the code they modified had already >>been radically changed (skill stuff for example). > > > So what do we do now? Do I download CVS and fix the patches, or will you > take care of it? If you could get new patches for things that are still broken, that would be great - I'm not sure what is 'missing' and what has been added. > > My sourceforge account is onefang. Should have access now. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 14 02:14:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <3F8B8EFE.6000208@sonic.net> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8B18D1.20200@laposte.net> <3F8B8EFE.6000208@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F8BA256.1000707@laposte.net> > We'd need to figure out how that got lost. Otherwise, trying to find > that problem is pretty much a shot in the dark. (I assume you refer to the Gaea's trouble) I haven't really noticed when i lost'em. Only thing I know is i was worshipping Gaea (output of statistics command), but didn't have the associated resistances. I'll try to reproduce it. Nicolas 'Ryo' 'Kaori' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 14 06:34:32 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <3F8BA256.1000707@laposte.net> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8B18D1.20200@laposte.net> <3F8B8EFE.6000208@sonic.net> <3F8BA256.1000707@laposte.net> Message-ID: <20031014113432.GA9215@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 09:14:30 +0200, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > > We'd need to figure out how that got lost. Otherwise, trying to find > >that problem is pretty much a shot in the dark. > > (I assume you refer to the Gaea's trouble) > I haven't really noticed when i lost'em. Only thing I know is i was > worshipping Gaea (output of statistics command), but didn't have the > associated resistances. > I'll try to reproduce it. After I created my character, I went to pray to Mostrai. When Mostrai became my god, the info window said I'd be protected from fire and have some vulnerabilities, but I immediately noticed that they didn't show up in the resistances. Bye Jochen -- Jochen Suckfuell --- http://www.suckfuell.net/jochen/ --- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 14 16:12:34 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <3F8B8EDF.60107@sonic.net> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8B8EDF.60107@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F8C66C2.10807@sympatico.ca> >> Other notes: >> I find it very hard to get sorcerer exp, since the only damaging spells >> that I found below level 7 are sparks shower, magic missile and magic >> bullet; they are all level 1, and it's very tedious to reach lvl 7 that >> way. I think we need more spells to fill the gap here. >> > > The number of spell schools perhaps needs to be reduced down to two, > simply as splitting into 4 may have been doo many. > Three is a good number if possible. Three is better than two IMHO even if that requires a few new spells to be added. With three you can have a dynamic. What is the model to be used? I was not a big fan of the pyromancer school - certainly these can be redistributed to the other classes. I think it would be alright to have Evokers, Summoners and Sorcerers however - we should be able to make that work. Evokers play with the basic magic forces, summoners call forth things to serve them and Sorcers have the more tricky/ sorts of magic. Maybe Evokers could get the ranged attacks from Pyromancer while summoners could get the wall spells (or perhaps do it the other way around for play reasons...) I have some graphics for a negabolt and negative energy sphere which could serve as a basis for some more sorcerer spells, also things like magic missile can be toned up to give sorcerers more attack power (and therefore more xp gain) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 01:40:16 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: onefang bug fixes Was: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <3F8B9C65.9070100@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031015064016.76303.qmail@web21302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Wedel wrote: > David Seikel wrote: > > > > So what do we do now? Do I download CVS and fix the patches, or will > > you take care of it? > > If you could get new patches for things that are still broken, that > would be great - I'm not sure what is 'missing' and what has been added. > > > My sourceforge account is onefang. > > Should have access now. With any luck I can try it out tomorrow. I'll grab the latest CVS, check it against all the bug fixes I currently have, apply missing ones, test, test again B-), and commit the next chance I get. Then I can fix up the already discussed problems in my Ice Castle maps and commit them, confident that the bug fixes needed to get it all to work are in place. BTW, I wasn't too sure about one of the inv checker bug fixes I submitted. (This is from memory, I am currently not at my own computer). As far as I can remember, inv checkers was a recomended way of stopping a particular race (player race or monster race) from going someplace. In particular, I used them in the Ice Castle to limit ants to an "ant trail" between the ant nest and the kitchen. That didn't work, so I fixed inv_checker to get it to work. Basically, it now checks the arch of the container before checking the arch of its contents. Container in this case is an ant. It makes sense that if an inv checker is blocking ants, that it should not make any difference if you are carrying an ant, or you are an ant, the ant still gets blocked. If I am wrong and there is some other approved way of blocking particular critters from certain areas, please let me know. I didn't mention this before as I left it as a judgement call for the person applying the patch to CVS. Now that person is me and I need to make the call B-). http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 04:04:37 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Common/loader.[lc] bug, player file corruption ahead Message-ID: <200310151104.39414.d.delbecq@laposte.net> Le Mardi 14 Octobre 2003 08:33, Mark Wedel a ?crit : > Nicolas Weeger wrote: > > Morning. > > > > Katia helped me trace the cause of the weird bug on > > crossfire.metalforge.net > > > > Here are some weird things, in loader.c (so in .l): > > * line 5594: > > FAST_SAVE_LONG(fastbuf,"subtype ",op->subtype,2); > > ^^^ > > should be 8, obviously. And that, i think, may break things later on. > > Yeah, that is wrong. Really, all the fast_save routines should be coded > to do a strlen of the passed string. > Ok, sorry if this email is short but cause of kmail behaviour it's the 4th time i write it (this message is doomed). 1st the object_diff routine with the FAST_... macros in it was a solution to a speed problem. The server was spending to much time swapping map (even on my XP 2400+ I could see the little lag of server when running at full throttle through the bigworld as dm). 2nd the things that were taking precious cpu and could be removed where - - a seek for '\0' on buffer string when doing strcat - - sprintf in a side buffer - - strlen calls on lots constant strings Concerning the third, that is why i tried to prevent use of strlen as much as possible. Sorry to miss the subtype error, i checked code several time and was looking at mailing list for strange 'saving behaviour bug' which could arise before removing old codes from comments. I thought there was no more problem (hey, the first error i found during beta test is experience badly saved, could you imagine the mob rushing on me if i had commited it? :) ) I understand use of strlen would be easier. If you want to change code and use back strlen (simply the code FAST macros to change a bit), i won't blame you neither will i try to change again the code to remove the strlen. But since the objects structure is something that do not change a lot as time goes on, i thought having a code a bit more difficult there but faster was a good tradeoff. the Object_diff is not a function that changes every week, am i wrong? _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 03:32:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Map building, continued Message-ID: <3F8D0611.1090009@laposte.net> Hello. A while ago I submitted a patch enabling ingame (partial) map modification / building, but no one commented on it. Is it not an interesting feature? You so busy working on your features that you don't have time to test stuff? Is there a CVS branch that'd be 'totally experimental', where this kind of random stuff could be checked in for testing, but not necessarily included in the game? Nicolas 'Ryo' 'Kaori' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 03:57:54 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Common/loader.[lc] bug, player file corruption ahead In-Reply-To: <200310151104.39414.d.delbecq@laposte.net> References: <200310151104.39414.d.delbecq@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F8D0C12.1060100@laposte.net> > 1st the object_diff routine with the FAST_... macros in it was a solution to a > speed problem. The server was spending to much time swapping map (even on my > XP 2400+ I could see the little lag of server when running at full throttle > through the bigworld as dm). Well, i guess that mistake wasn't too bad, since it was never reported before... I'm not even sure subtype is actually used somewhere ^.^;;; I saw the problem when a DM pasted a dump of some of my skills / items / abilities, but I'm not sure if that caused other troubles... I don't mind the fixed length if that can speed up things. Besides, there prolly aren't that many mistakes, considering no one ever complained of troubles when saving :) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 04:15:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Re: onefang bug fixes References: <20031015064016.76303.qmail@web21302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <22520.1066209319@www63.gmx.net> in reply to David Seikel: > [...] Then I can fix up the already discussed problems > in my Ice Castle maps and commit them, confident that the > bug fixes needed to get it all to work are in place. I may be repeating already discussed stuff, but before you commit these maps I want to clearify some things: The whole "Club of Night mark" thing is not going to work. You are handing immunities to the player and expect him to walk out over your inv_checkers nicely and give it all back. There are hundreds of ways how players can get out of your disco room without loosing the mark, the most obvious is dying. I don't know if this was clear to you but you'll have to either remove the immunities or rethink the machinery. The shops being too big and selling reserved spells has already been mentioned I think. I have furthermore noticed that there are anvils for power dragonmails in IceCastle which don't require money payment (only charge the 60 dragonscales). To get there, one needs a "onefang" slaying which I couldn't figure out how to get. So, maybe this is okay if the key is a considerable prerequisite. Anyhow please keep in mind that power dragonmails are not supposed to be available for 60 scales only. AndreasV -- NEU F?R ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - f?r Fotos, Musik, Dateien... Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS, Multimedia-Gru?, GMX FotoService Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.gmx.net +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f?r Mail, Message, More! +++ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 04:29:23 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:17 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] newbie world Message-ID: <200310151129.27561.tchize@myrealbox.com> some discussion have already been done on irc and forums on 'do we have to create a newbie world'. I'll don't say against everythinh here, (look at http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopic.php?t=173 for details) am just sending the url of 2 map files First is a newbie house, which could be an interresting starting point (instead of scorn) with some tutorials on the basics of crossfire (aplying objects, keybindings, what is food, beds to reality, how to fight, traps, aso.) players can't get out of house it they don't, at least, know how to apply a lever and say a magic word. http://users.skynet.be/tchize/crossfire/maps/newbieshouse Please note for now you have to access it as a dm and the exit oakdoor are not yet linked. The second is the more general 'newbies world' in early stage. http://users.skynet.be/tchize/crossfire/maps/newbies.tar.bz2 _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 04:50:03 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Some Python things In-Reply-To: <1065880366.564.25.camel@oberon.Kameria> References: <3F819366.30209@sympatico.ca> <12527.1065871485@www11.gmx.net> <1065880366.564.25.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <200310151150.08798.yann.chachkoff@myrealbox.com> Le Samedi 11 Octobre 2003 15:52, Todd Mitchell a ?crit : > On Sat, 2003-10-11 at 07:24, Andreas Vogl wrote: > > Todd Mitchell wrote: > > > [...] > > > > > Event options are currently not supported because I really had no idea > > about it. In the docs ("doc/Developers/pyhton", "doc/Developers/plugins") > > event options don't seem to be mentioned, or did I overlook it? > > > > Currently, the CFJavaEditor would insert the following for a say event > > script attached to a map-object: > > > > event_say_plugin Python > > event_say WhateverScript.py > > > > How do event options come into play with this? > My bad... I forgot to speak about this. Mea Culpa ! To summarize quickly: event_option is a free string content that was supposed to be used by a plugin to set various options (who guessed that ? :)). For example, a plugin managing a dialog IA could use event_options to know which personality to use (event_options angry, event_options old man, etc.). CFPython itself doesn't use the event_options. But Python scripts can use it as a way to store a string. The functions used for that are: CFPython.GetEventOptions(who, eventid) : reads the value of the event_options field in the object 'who'; the event is specified as its internal integer value (the #define EVENT_bla in plugin.h). CFPython.SetEventOptions(who, eventid, val) : Sets the event_option value of object 'who' to 'val'. > Well currently the event options are not working properly as far as I > know Correction made in the CVS. Seems that there were Cut&Paste errors in the plugin and in the loader code. > but from looking at the code for the IPO buliten board and the > plugin code you can associate a option (a string I presume) with a > script by adding somehting like this: > > arch sign > name Scorn Message Board > event_say_plugin Python > event_say /python/IPO/board.py > event_say_options ScornBOARD > > the board.py script can then use the CFPython.GetOptions(who, event) > where who is the object calling the script and event is the type of > event, like say (event 6) or apply (event 1?). This lets you pass a > string to the script (one script per event per object allowed) and makes > things a lot more reusable by letting you set up different states for > the scripts based on the options (like a message board name or insult > style. Yann can hopefully correct me if I am wrong here. Sounds mostly correct. the function name is GetEventOptions, and apply is indeed event nr. 1. > Anyway currently the java editor is reporting the event_say_options > field as a new script. Proir to the scripting support you could just > edit the text manually in the text window, but now the editor parses > these lines so you have to add the options manually to the map file. > I think it would be good to have a options field where you can enter > this string when you link a script to an object in the editor. I have > seen also the line 'event_say_options_plugin X' but don't know where > that fits in with all this and am assuming it is a mistake... (?) event_say_options_plugin X is indeed a mistake. Format of event line is always the same: event_xxx : the event content itself; event_xxx_plugin : the plugin used to handle the event; event_xxx_options : the options field. Hope this helps (sorry for the delay - I didn't check the mailing list a lot recently) -- Yann Chachkoff ----------------------- Garden Dwarf's Best Friend ----------------------- GPG Key : http://pgp.dtype.org:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x844D25E0 Fingerprint: 6616 2E02 BAD2 4AEF C90A F1EB 7E03 AAB9 844D 25E0 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20031015/61a719ea/attachment.pgp From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 06:11:15 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: Magic Schools and skills, Re: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <3F8C66C2.10807@sympatico.ca> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8B8EDF.60107@sonic.net> <3F8C66C2.10807@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20031015111115.GA23843@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 17:12:34 -0400, Todd Mitchell wrote: > >>Other notes: > >>I find it very hard to get sorcerer exp, since the only damaging spells > >>that I found below level 7 are sparks shower, magic missile and magic > >>bullet; they are all level 1, and it's very tedious to reach lvl 7 that > >>way. I think we need more spells to fill the gap here. > >> > > > > The number of spell schools perhaps needs to be reduced down to two, > >simply as splitting into 4 may have been doo many. > > Actually I like the four schools of magic. It's better to have four skills to compete with others than three. It's just that we need enough (and powerful enough) spells in each school to allow gaining exp in a reasonable way. For summoners it would be enough to tone up the lesser golem and golem a bit in low levels. And sorcerers definitely need a decent level 3 spell to fill the gap until level 5, and then a cone and a ball spell (like fireball or snowstorm) would be useful. Maybe the mana storm and the other mana spells should be moved to the sorcerer school. > and Sorcers have the more tricky/ sorts of magic. Maybe Evokers could > get the ranged attacks from Pyromancer while summoners could get the > wall spells (or perhaps do it the other way around for play reasons...) An alternative wall spell like "magic fence" could be added for the sorcerer, that looks like a fence, is impassable, cannot be torn down (so you can lock yourself in) or cast through, but vanishes after some time. > I have some graphics for a negabolt and negative energy sphere which > could serve as a basis for some more sorcerer spells, also things like > magic missile can be toned up to give sorcerers more attack power (and > therefore more xp gain) Instead of removing a magic school, we should add more spells, that would make wizardry more interesting. I'm sure most characters would learn yet another magic school for that special powerful spell you can get there. This can even be a valuable goal for players that are high level in the other skills, and as long as your character can learn new things, the game remains interesting. With the old skill system, when my character was very strong in the relevant skills melee, wizardry and praying, and my equipment could hardly be improved, I turned to improving in skills like stealing and singing, just for the fun of it. And only when I didn't see where I could improve any more, the game started getting boring. This is the time when you usually start a new character. More skills, even exotic ones, make the game more (and longer) interesting in my opinion. Bye Jochen -- Jochen Suckfuell --- http://www.suckfuell.net/jochen/ --- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 09:40:32 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] clients In-Reply-To: <6195.1065624170@www67.gmx.net> Message-ID: Maybe I did something wrong (or there's something I didn't do at all), for me the new (1.6.0) cfclient crashes immedietly. (Don't need to enter a portal or a new map area or s'mthing like that.) This may not be the correct place to ask such questions, but why not giving a try :-) ? So: How can I arrange things about gtkclient so I won't need to download images every time I connect to a server? Or is there a portion of images I always need to download at the time I connect? _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 14:46:07 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skill behaviour: 'old' is better! Message-ID: <3F8DA3FF.7060300@laposte.net> Just noticed, with the new skill system: if you 'invoke' a spell, it gets readied as range spell... That's pretty annoying for spells like healing, which typically you only want to cast once, then go on using what you used before... On old skill system that behaviour didn't exist, think it'd be possible to get that back? IE invoke doesn't change range / readied spell... Nicolas 'Ryo' 'Kaori' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 14:57:33 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skill behaviour: 'old' is better! In-Reply-To: <3F8DA3FF.7060300@laposte.net> References: <3F8DA3FF.7060300@laposte.net> Message-ID: <1066247853.945.3.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 15:46, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Just noticed, with the new skill system: > if you 'invoke' a spell, it gets readied as range spell... > That's pretty annoying for spells like healing, which typically you only want to > cast once, then go on using what you used before... > On old skill system that behaviour didn't exist, think it'd be possible to get > that back? > IE invoke doesn't change range / readied spell... While we're at it, I would really like to have some way to use a skill once without changing the range attack. I don't know if use_skill should be changed to not adjust the range attack (only ready_skill). If there's good reason not to have use_skill work that way, then there should be a use_skill_once command (or something like that). Oh, and I think invoke now does change the readied skill to be praying or wizardry with the old skill system, as well, so this may not be related to the change. --PC _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 15:22:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] cfclient, fixed parse_game_button_press() Message-ID: <20031015202219.GA842@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> Hi! The parse_game_button_press() function in x11/x11.c didn't take the configured mapsize into account, but calculated the direction relative to the player position in the default sized map. Besides this, I cleaned up the code a bit, so I can as well paste the whole function here instead of a patch: static void parse_game_button_press(int button, int x, int y) { int dx, dy, i; x = (x-2)/image_size; y = (y-2)/image_size; dx = x-use_config[CONFIG_MAPWIDTH]/2; dy = y-use_config[CONFIG_MAPHEIGHT]/2; if(button == 1) { /* Its unlikely this will happen, but if the window is * resized, its possible to be out of bounds. */ if(dx<(-use_config[CONFIG_MAPWIDTH]/2)||dx>(use_config[CONFIG_MAPWIDTH]/2)||dy<(-use_config[CONFIG_MAPHEIGHT]/2)||dy>(use_config[CONFIG_MAPHEIGHT]/2)) return; look_at(dx,dy); return; } if (dx<0) i = 0; else if (dx>0) i = 6; else i =3; if (dy>0) i += 2; else if (dy==0) i++; if (button==2) { switch (i) { case 0: fire_dir (8);break; case 1: fire_dir (7);break; case 2: fire_dir (6);break; case 3: fire_dir (1);break; case 5: fire_dir (5);break; case 6: fire_dir (2);break; case 7: fire_dir (3);break; case 8: fire_dir (4);break; } /* Only want to fire once */ clear_fire(); return; } switch (i) { case 0: move_player (8);break; case 1: move_player (7);break; case 2: move_player (6);break; case 3: move_player (1);break; case 5: move_player (5);break; case 6: move_player (2);break; case 7: move_player (3);break; case 8: move_player (4);break; } } It would be nice if someone could commit this to CVS. Bye Jochen -- Jochen Suckfuell --- http://www.suckfuell.net/jochen/ --- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 15:28:10 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] cfclient, fixed parse_game_button_press() In-Reply-To: <20031015202219.GA842@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> References: <20031015202219.GA842@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <20031015202810.GB842@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 22:22:19 +0200, Jochen Suckfuell wrote: > Hi! > > The parse_game_button_press() function in x11/x11.c didn't take the > configured mapsize into account, but calculated the direction relative > to the player position in the default sized map. > Besides this, I cleaned up the code a bit, so I can as well paste the > whole function here instead of a patch: > > > static void parse_game_button_press(int button, int x, int y) > { > int dx, dy, i; > x = (x-2)/image_size; > y = (y-2)/image_size; > dx = x-use_config[CONFIG_MAPWIDTH]/2; > dy = y-use_config[CONFIG_MAPHEIGHT]/2; > > if(button == 1) > { > > /* Its unlikely this will happen, but if the window is > * resized, its possible to be out of bounds. > */ > if(dx<(-use_config[CONFIG_MAPWIDTH]/2)||dx>(use_config[CONFIG_MAPWIDTH]/2)||dy<(-use_config[CONFIG_MAPHEIGHT]/2)||dy>(use_config[CONFIG_MAPHEIGHT]/2)) return; Sorry, this line should of course be: if(x < 0 || x > use_config[CONFIG_MAPWIDTH] || y < 0 || y > use_config[CONFIG_MAPHEIGHT]) return; > look_at(dx,dy); > return; > } > > if (dx<0) > i = 0; > else if (dx>0) > i = 6; > else i =3; > > if (dy>0) > i += 2; > else if (dy==0) > i++; > > if (button==2) { > switch (i) { > case 0: fire_dir (8);break; > case 1: fire_dir (7);break; > case 2: fire_dir (6);break; > case 3: fire_dir (1);break; > case 5: fire_dir (5);break; > case 6: fire_dir (2);break; > case 7: fire_dir (3);break; > case 8: fire_dir (4);break; > } > /* Only want to fire once */ > clear_fire(); > return; > } > > switch (i) { > case 0: move_player (8);break; > case 1: move_player (7);break; > case 2: move_player (6);break; > case 3: move_player (1);break; > case 5: move_player (5);break; > case 6: move_player (2);break; > case 7: move_player (3);break; > case 8: move_player (4);break; > } > } > > > It would be nice if someone could commit this to CVS. > > Bye > Jochen > > -- > Jochen Suckfuell --- http://www.suckfuell.net/jochen/ --- > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel Bye Jochen -- Jochen Suckfuell --- http://www.suckfuell.net/jochen/ --- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 20:34:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Wand prices (crossfire.metalforge.net) Message-ID: How is pricing determined for wands and staves? Number of charges? Effective spell level? (in this case, 110) Spell level that the wand/staff provides? Some combination of all 3? I was just wondering based on a few wands/staffs that were found in the Wand Shop in Lake Country along with the prices for a character with a Charisma 7. wand of summon air elemental (lvl 110) (unpaid) will cost you 22 platinum coins, 1 gold coin and 9 silver coins. staff of turn undead (lvl 93) (unpaid) will cost you 29 platinum coins, 1 gold coin and 6 silver coins. staff of show invisible (lvl 110) (unpaid) will cost you 110 platinum coins, 1 gold coin and 1 silver coin. wand of small snowstorm (lvl 110) (unpaid) will cost you 90 platinum coins and 9 silver coins. The Wand of Small Snowstorm had 22 charges (the others were purchased before I could gather more information on them..) Or, am I the only one who feels that wands with these kind of stats are priced to low? ;) - Rick Tanner leaf@real-time.com -- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 21:07:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Wand prices (crossfire.metalforge.net) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 16-Oct-03 Rick Tanner wrote: > Effective spell level? (in this case, 110) > Spell level that the wand/staff provides? > Some combination of all 3? If i remember correctly, it has to do with charges, and the useful level of the spell.. That meaning, if a spell gains an extra point of damage every 5 levels, the multiplier will be level/5. I don't recall fully however. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 15 22:24:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Wand prices (crossfire.metalforge.net) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F8E0F5E.1090504@sonic.net> Rick Tanner wrote: > How is pricing determined for wands and staves? > > Number of charges? > Effective spell level? (in this case, 110) > Spell level that the wand/staff provides? > Some combination of all 3? > > I was just wondering based on a few wands/staffs that were found in the > Wand Shop in Lake Country along with the prices for a character with a > Charisma 7. > > wand of summon air elemental (lvl 110) (unpaid) will cost you 22 > platinum coins, 1 gold coin and 9 silver coins. > > staff of turn undead (lvl 93) (unpaid) will cost you 29 platinum > coins, 1 gold coin and 6 silver coins. > > staff of show invisible (lvl 110) (unpaid) will cost you 110 > platinum coins, 1 gold coin and 1 silver coin. > > wand of small snowstorm (lvl 110) (unpaid) will cost you 90 > platinum coins and 9 silver coins. > > The Wand of Small Snowstorm had 22 charges (the others were purchased > before I could gather more information on them..) > > Or, am I the only one who feels that wands with these kind of stats are > priced to low? ;) For the new code: Wands are presumed to have 50 charges. Thus, a wand with only 1 charge will only be 1/50th of the base cost. The base cost is determined by value of wand object (constant in archetype, but one could certainly make different wand arch's with different treasure list, and increase the value of wand arch itself). This is also basically how value of all objects work - rods use the value of the rod arch. That is then multiplied by the value of the spell itself (as listed in the archetype). In the conversion, spell value is basically spell * 10, but there is no reason things can't be adjusted. If the spell in question has variable effects (more damage, range, etc), then it is multiplie by (wand_level + 50) / (spell_level+50). I'm not completely satisfied with that formula, but if you remove the +50, then low level wands quickly get tons more expensive (eg, level 50 wand / level 1 spell = 50 times cost) Thus, a level 110 object for a level one spell would be something like 160/51, or roughly 3 times as much. If the wand seems to have no variable effects, then price of the object is not effected by the level of the wand (makes no difference, so why should the price be different?) But the biggest variable can basically be the charges. First flaw in the formula may be the assumption that 50 charges is fully charged - I don't think there is any wand that typically comes with taht many charges. 20 may be a more typical number. But is also comes down to number of charges. 5 charges will cost you 5 times as much as that same wand with one charge. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 16 12:06:00 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skills bug: god-given resistances disappear Message-ID: <3F8ECFF8.50801@laposte.net> Hello. Just happened to me on crossfire.metalforge.net. Worshipping Gaea, human, sorcerer/wizard. I reentered the game, had god's resistances (depletion, death, ...). I went to beginner2, started punching mice, and suddenly lost all my god's resistances! The sequence of events is: * ready magic bullet * accidentally move onto mouse * suddenly i hvae (you can now longer use the skill one-handed weapon, whereas i couldn't use it (since i'm Gaea) * then 'you can no longer use the skill praying' * then 'you suddenly feel less holy' * then my resistances disappeared (with their message, 'your resistance to depletion drops to 0%' * finally 'you can now use the skill punching' Weird thing... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 16 17:54:24 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skills bug: god-given resistances disappear In-Reply-To: <3F8ECFF8.50801@laposte.net> References: <3F8ECFF8.50801@laposte.net> Message-ID: Yes. One can usually pummel monsters whitout changing active skill. e.g. : praying But sometimes you will change skill, and then you lose the gods force: You avoid attacking cleaning woman . You pushed cleaning woman back. You start to attack cleaning woman !! You can no longer use the skill: praying. Your lifeforce returns! You feel much more healthy! You feel your digestion speeding up. Your resistance to fire rises to 0%. Your resistance to cold drops to 0%. Your resistance to draining drops to 0%. Your resistance to ghosts drops to 0%. Your resistance to poison drops to 0%. Your resistance to fear drops to 0%. Your resistance to depletion drops to 0%. Your resistance to death attacks drops to 0%. Skill tools are broken too: This is my "skills" output after picking 2 doors: disarm traps............................lvl: 1 (xp:175/2000/0%) evocation...............................lvl: 1 (xp:1717/2000/0%) find traps..............................lvl: 1 (xp:315/2000/0%) literacy................................lvl: 1 (xp:700/2000/0%) lockpicking.............................lvl: 1 (xp:0/2000/0%) lockpicking.............................lvl: 1 (xp:0/2000/0%) lockpicking.............................lvl: 1 (xp:0/2000/0%) one handed weapons......................lvl: 4 (xp:8671/16000/0%) praying.................................lvl: 6 (xp:44984/64000/0%) punching................................lvl: 1 (xp:0/2000/0%) smithery................................lvl: 3 (xp:4825/8000/0%) throwing................................lvl: 1 (xp:0/2000/0%) use magic item..........................lvl: 1 (xp:0/2000/0%) 3 entries for lockpicking - all of them at zero. Bernd Edler _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 17 01:45:27 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Common/loader.[lc] bug, player file corruption ahead In-Reply-To: <200310151104.39414.d.delbecq@laposte.net> References: <200310151104.39414.d.delbecq@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F8F9007.8030208@sonic.net> David Delbecq wrote: > Concerning the third, that is why i tried to prevent use of strlen as much as > possible. Sorry to miss the subtype error, i checked code several time and > was looking at mailing list for strange 'saving behaviour bug' which could > arise before removing old codes from comments. I thought there was no more > problem (hey, the first error i found during beta test is experience badly > saved, could you imagine the mob rushing on me if i had commited it? :) ) > I understand use of strlen would be easier. If you want to change code and use > back strlen (simply the code FAST macros to change a bit), i won't blame you > neither will i try to change again the code to remove the strlen. But since > the objects structure is something that do not change a lot as time goes on, > i thought having a code a bit more difficult there but faster was a good > tradeoff. the Object_diff is not a function that changes every week, am i > wrong? My philosphy is that in most times, I'd trade some execution time for less prone programming errors. But more to the point, any decent compiler (and gcc qualifies) will not actually make function calls to strlen() for constant string data. Obviously, if you do something like: my_function(char *str) { int x = strlen(str); ... } The compiler has no way of knowing of str is a constant, and thus the strlen remains. However, since the loader.l uses macros, the compiler basicaly can turn that into a 'strlen("subtype ")'..., and thus know the appropriate length it needs to use. This is my real point why strlen should be used - it would be no slower than existing code (for systems with decent compilers), but easier to maintain and less prone to bugs. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 17 02:00:02 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: Magic Schools and skills, Re: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <20031015111115.GA23843@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8B8EDF.60107@sonic.net> <3F8C66C2.10807@sympatico.ca> <20031015111115.GA23843@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <3F8F9372.9090301@sonic.net> crossfire@suckfuell.net wrote: > On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 17:12:34 -0400, Todd Mitchell wrote: > Actually I like the four schools of magic. It's better to have four > skills to compete with others than three. It's just that we need enough > (and powerful enough) spells in each school to allow gaining exp in a > reasonable way. For summoners it would be enough to tone up the lesser > golem and golem a bit in low levels. And sorcerers definitely need a > decent level 3 spell to fill the gap until level 5, and then a cone > and a ball spell (like fireball or snowstorm) would be useful. Maybe the > mana storm and the other mana spells should be moved to the sorcerer > school. It should probably be noted that the spell stuff as is was basically a first pass, so some adjustments are probably in order. Giving pyromancers lightning & fire gives them a lot of ability. You then have evokers with cold & mana spells. Which sort of let sorcers with the other spells (poison & effect spells). The problem with effect spells (paralyze, slow) is that while they may be useful, they don't gain any experience directly. Looking at attacktypes, in terms of new spells, one could see adding more to physical (cone of shards, eg, physical?) Could add more acid spells also. There coudl certainly be more summoner spells also. I added the lesser golem spell because they needed something at least first level One thing that is perhaps missing in the spell code is a 'limit' on how levels adjust the spell upwards. for example, it could be nice to make that first level golem spell increase its hp/duration a bit based on each level. However, you want to cap that so after level 10 in summoning, it doesn't get any more poewrful (otherwise, it could be out of whack when scaled up to level 100 for example). The other thought is that there are probably enough spells to easily make 3 or 4 skills viable. The problem in retrospect is that by grouping them by damage type, that left some skills without a lot of spells. > > An alternative wall spell like "magic fence" could be added for the > sorcerer, that looks like a fence, is impassable, cannot be torn down > (so you can lock yourself in) or cast through, but vanishes after some > time. How about this for an idea - spikewall? Makes a wall of those spikes that move up and down? this would be passable at times, but not others. Gives a wall with phyiscal attacks (and something that makes sense). Wouldn't require any new graphics either. > Instead of removing a magic school, we should add more spells, that > would make wizardry more interesting. > I'm sure most characters would learn yet another magic school for that > special powerful spell you can get there. This can even be a valuable > goal for players that are high level in the other skills, and as long as > your character can learn new things, the game remains interesting. Yeah, however, I'd not want to see a bunch of spells that are basically same as is now, with different skill/school. Eg, if you give a mage version of fireball, its sort of like 'what's the point of different skills then'. So new spell types need to be developed. Now in some cases, variations of existing spells could be used to fill gaps (more medium power golem or something). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 17 12:25:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Dragon ability bug/crash, hopefully fixed Message-ID: <3F90260B.5050800@laposte.net> Hi. Noticed today Mark commited fixes for dragon's ability-related crash in player.c. Unfortunately some small bug was missed, so I (just) fixed it. Line 3079: new_draw_info_format(NDI_UNIQUE|NDI_BLUE, 0, who, "You gained the ability of %s", item->inv->name); ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ should obviously read new_draw_info_format(NDI_UNIQUE|NDI_BLUE, 0, who, "You gained the ability of %s", item->name); ^^^^^^^^^^ since item->inv is NULL... Tested before committing, seems to work (tried the 4 paths, till all abilities gained) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 17 12:47:43 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:18 2005 Subject: Magic Schools and skills, Re: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <3F8F9372.9090301@sonic.net> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8B8EDF.60107@sonic.net> <3F8C66C2.10807@sympatico.ca> <20031015111115.GA23843@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8F9372.9090301@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F902B3F.7060408@sympatico.ca> > The other thought is that there are probably enough spells to easily > make 3 or 4 skills viable. The problem in retrospect is that by > grouping them by damage type, that left some skills without a lot of > spells. > > I think this is the problem I have with pyromancy - grouping spells by damage type really puts you in a bind since you need a range of damage types to be sucessful. One of the first tings I can see happenging is people wanting to add cold based and poision and magic damage based attacks to pyromancers and fire and lightning based to evokers. Really the schools should be seperated by play style where for example sorcerers would get the different runes, evokers the wall attacks and summonners the elementals. In this case pyromancers would become something more like an attack school with many cone and exploding attack spells (of all types) but say not the runes or more passive attack spells (walls and auras). Anyway back to the main topic - I agree that having 3-4 schools is good but the spells should be different but they shouldn't be seperated along damage type lines. > > How about this for an idea - spikewall? Makes a wall of those spikes > that move up and down? this would be passable at times, but not > others. Gives a wall with phyiscal attacks (and something that makes > sense). Wouldn't require any new graphics either. > > trying to use spikes with traps (after adding connection field to traps) has been so far pretty lame - existing spikes don't do a very good job of damaging players - they are too slow for one. I want to make a new spike archetype for this purpose actually... A hidden spike shoots up quickly and that does do some variable damage (like the spike trap but usable as a triggered object for other things too) If and when the new blocking code is added there are a whole range of new wall type spells that would be fun to have - creating a wall that blocked flying would give you a missile shield, different walls that blocked fire or lightning, or even magic propigation would give you a magic shields against fire lightning or magic... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 17 18:34:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skills bug: god-given resistances disappear In-Reply-To: References: <3F8ECFF8.50801@laposte.net> Message-ID: <20031017203448.0a3baa90.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Another example... (i had the rod readied and middle clicked on the wand when this happened) The rod of frostbolt (lvl 91) whines for a while, but nothing happens. You unready rod of frostbolt (lvl 91). You can no longer use the skill: praying. You feel much less healthy! You suddenly feel less holy. Readied skill: use magic item. You ready wand of frostbolt (lvl 95) (readied). But on the same example another weird thing happened... the rod was never actually "charged", this are the dumps of the rod and the wand in case they are worth for something: arch rod_light name rod name_pl rods face rod_light.113 animation rod_light hp 7 maxhp 7 x 3 y 8 speed -0.250000 level 91 type 3 material 70 materialname iron value 27933 weight 3500 state 2 randomitems rod_spell client_type 702 is_animated 1 identified 1 body_range -1 end arch wand name wand name_pl wands skill use magic item face wand.112 animation wand food 19 x 3 y 8 speed -0.100000 nrof 1 level 95 type 109 material 16 materialname pine value 4103 weight 2300 randomitems wand client_type 711 is_animated 1 identified 1 been_applied 1 body_range -1 end -- +-----------------------------+ | Karla M? Stenger S?bat | | Pando . Canelones . Uruguay | | kstenger@montevideo.com.uy | +-----------------------------+ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 17 21:35:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: Magic Schools and skills, Re: [CF-Devel] Bugs on crossfire.metalforge In-Reply-To: <3F902B3F.7060408@sympatico.ca> References: <20031013210918.GA31351@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8B8EDF.60107@sonic.net> <3F8C66C2.10807@sympatico.ca> <20031015111115.GA23843@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> <3F8F9372.9090301@sonic.net> <3F902B3F.7060408@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3F90A70B.80909@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: >> The other thought is that there are probably enough spells to easily >> make 3 or 4 skills viable. The problem in retrospect is that by >> grouping them by damage type, that left some skills without a lot of >> spells. >> >> > I think this is the problem I have with pyromancy - grouping spells by > damage type really puts you in a bind since you need a range of damage > types to be sucessful. One of the first tings I can see happenging is > people wanting to add cold based and poision and magic damage based > attacks to pyromancers and fire and lightning based to evokers. Really > the schools should be seperated by play style where for example > sorcerers would get the different runes, evokers the wall attacks and > summonners the elementals. In this case pyromancers would become > something more like an attack school with many cone and exploding attack > spells (of all types) but say not the runes or more passive attack > spells (walls and auras). Anyway back to the main topic - I agree that > having 3-4 schools is good but the spells should be different but they > shouldn't be seperated along damage type lines. It strikes me that no matter how you do it, things will never be perfectly balanced. In the case you describe above of people wanting to give cold spells to pyromancers - tough luck. Like most things in the game, any additional new spell should be examined to see if it matches the school it was added to. One reason for some of hte schools as created was simply to add some matching to the class names that were there. Eg, being a summoner now actually means something (what spells you start with). I have a feeling that if you gave sorcerers runes but not a lot else, you'd get a bunch of complaints also. At low levels, those runes probably wouldn't be especially useful (runes are potentially more useful at higher levels where you really are only targeting one monster) To me, the weakest point is probably the sorcerers, as most of the misc spells got tossed at them. I'm not against changes things around, but just as said above, I don't think you will ever got what can be considered perfect balance. Some of this can be helped by giving certain skills certain special/important spells (if you want to town portal, need to get that sorcery exp up). But also as said before, I certainly don't see the requirement that with one spell skill you should be able to kill every monster (eg, get every attacktype). > >> >> How about this for an idea - spikewall? Makes a wall of those spikes >> that move up and down? this would be passable at times, but not >> others. Gives a wall with phyiscal attacks (and something that makes >> sense). Wouldn't require any new graphics either. >> >> > trying to use spikes with traps (after adding connection field to traps) > has been so far pretty lame - existing spikes don't do a very good job > of damaging players - they are too slow for one. I want to make a new > spike archetype for this purpose actually... A hidden spike shoots up > quickly and that does do some variable damage (like the spike trap but > usable as a triggered object for other things too) Well, the spikewall was a suggestion against monsters, not players. So speed isn't as important. Likewise, speed and damage can be ramped up some to make it deadlier. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 18 01:20:52 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Minor fix to a major bug. Message-ID: <20031018032052.2dd9404c.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Hi again! Today Drashian, a metalforge's player told me about a bug he found. He accidentally noticed that the 'fire command can take as a parameter mostly any integer. After a few tries he realized that the outcome of using some specific skills (like jumping) was the player beeing teleported to the related position to the given integer, or in order to attack skills (any old phisique-like skill)the result was attacking the monster that is standing on the suposed place without the player moving from it's place... even when the square isn't adjacent to the player position. So it's is a very safe way to kill monsters on the whole map without the monsters noticing you or even taking treasures from not allowed places, even on non magic maps. Here is the diff with the changes i made. I hope they are good enough and i'll be looking forward just in case there are some other functions that do something like that. The idea was just limitting the player to use the 'fire or the 'run command only in the 9 basic directions that is from 0 to 8. I couldn't try it on a local server but i think the changes are pretty simple. Anyway I will do it as soon as i get it to compile (what seems to be taking too long, couldnt say why) Greetings, Katia. -- +-----------------------------+ | Karla M? Stenger S?bat | | Pando . Canelones . Uruguay | | kstenger@montevideo.com.uy | +-----------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- Index: c_new.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/server/c_new.c,v retrieving revision 1.6 diff -u -r1.6 c_new.c --- c_new.c 20 Mar 2002 06:27:46 -0000 1.6 +++ c_new.c 18 Oct 2003 05:53:28 -0000 @@ -114,8 +114,15 @@ int command_run(object *op, char *params) { + int dir; op->contr->run_on=1; - return (move_player(op, params?atoi(params):0)); + dir = params?atoi(params):0; + if ( params<0 || params>=9 ){ + new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,op,"Can't run into a non adjacent square."); + return 0; + } + else + return move_player(op, dir); } int command_run_stop(object *op, char *params) @@ -126,8 +133,15 @@ int command_fire(object *op, char *params) { + int dir; op->contr->fire_on=1; - return move_player(op, params?atoi(params):0); + dir = params?atoi(params):0; + if ( params<0 || params>=9 ){ + new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,op,"Can't fire to a non adjacent square."); + return 0; + } + else + return move_player(op, dir); } int command_fire_stop(object *op, char *params) From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 18 01:16:10 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] marker arch Message-ID: <1066457197.784.4.camel@oberon.Kameria> If anyone wanted to make a marker object that worked when triggered instead of when just walked on I would be happy to use it. It would be a useful item and very handy for granting access to areas for a limited time (like inns and the special cauldrens in scorn). I might get around to doing it later (in map making mode at the moment) but if anyone wanted to do it sooner that would be swell by me. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 18 01:06:37 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] marker arch Message-ID: <1066457197.784.4.camel@oberon.Kameria> If anyone wanted to make a marker object that worked when triggered instead of when just walked on I would be happy to use it. It would be a useful item and very handy for granting access to areas for a limited time (like inns and the special cauldrens in scorn). I might get around to doing it later (in map making mode at the moment) but if anyone wanted to do it sooner that would be swell by me. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 18 03:26:20 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pickup behaviour & ideas Message-ID: <3F90F92C.2050305@laposte.net> Hello. It seems pickup modes don't care about paid/unpaid status. So pickup 4 in a shop will pick everything... The only things that checks unpaid are pickup by density and newpickup mode. Some people think this should be fixed so you don't pickup unpaid items. What do you think? Also, I'd like to improve newpickup. Basically, be able to do: pickup +bow pickup -weapon instead of having to compute those powers of 2 and add & mess around... Would also make it easier for client (for instance gtk) to change pickup based on menus, without having to guess what the player is using. (just a wrapper for pickup +bow and such) And comments, suggestions? Nicolas 'Ryo' 'Kaori' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 18 13:21:57 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: AW: [CF-Devel] marker arch In-Reply-To: <1066457197.784.4.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: Use scripts. Put a invisible force or info objects in the player when he has done what he need to access a area then attach a script to the stairs or exit. I have done it in daimonin with the stairs down to the merc guild. > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: crossfire-devel-admin@lists.real-time.com > [mailto:crossfire-devel-admin@lists.real-time.com]Im Auftrag von Todd > Mitchell > Gesendet: Samstag, 18. Oktober 2003 08:07 > An: crossfire dev > Betreff: [CF-Devel] marker arch > > > If anyone wanted to make a marker object that worked when triggered > instead of when just walked on I would be happy to use it. It would be > a useful item and very handy for granting access to areas for a limited > time (like inns and the special cauldrens in scorn). > I might get around to doing it later (in map making mode at the moment) > but if anyone wanted to do it sooner that would be swell by me. > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 18 21:18:04 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Minor fix to a major bug. In-Reply-To: <20031018032052.2dd9404c.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> References: <20031018032052.2dd9404c.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Message-ID: <20031018231804.1801245e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Ok, after i finally was able to compile the server for which i had to change a misspelling (see the misspelling.diff file i'm sending), i realized my previous patch wouldnt work cause i used the wrong variable inside the if, but now i changed it and tested and it seems to work fine, not blocking the shift key for firing nor the control key for running. I hope it can be uploaded to the CVS soon (and even beeing updated in the metalforge servers) or it could be of use for those that maybe already knew about this bug. Any comments apreciated as always :) Katia. -- +-----------------------------+ | Karla M? Stenger S?bat | | Pando . Canelones . Uruguay | | kstenger@montevideo.com.uy | +-----------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- Index: player.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/server/player.c,v retrieving revision 1.134 diff -u -r1.134 player.c --- player.c 7 Oct 2003 07:02:02 -0000 1.134 +++ player.c 19 Oct 2003 02:05:22 -0000 @@ -1974,7 +1974,7 @@ * the wiz. */ if (mon->type == PLAYER && mon->stats.hp >= 0 && !mon->contr->has_hit && - !on_battleGround && !QUERY_FLAG(mon, FLAG_WIZ)) { + !on_battleground && !QUERY_FLAG(mon, FLAG_WIZ)) { short luck = mon->stats.luck; mon->contr->has_hit = 1; skill_attack(op, mon, 0, NULL, NULL); -------------- next part -------------- Index: c_new.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/server/c_new.c,v retrieving revision 1.6 diff -u -r1.6 c_new.c --- c_new.c 20 Mar 2002 06:27:46 -0000 1.6 +++ c_new.c 19 Oct 2003 02:01:01 -0000 @@ -114,8 +114,15 @@ int command_run(object *op, char *params) { + int dir; op->contr->run_on=1; - return (move_player(op, params?atoi(params):0)); + dir = params?atoi(params):0; + if ( dir <0 || dir >=9 ){ + new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,op,"Can't run into a non adjacent square."); + return 0; + } + else + return move_player(op, dir); } int command_run_stop(object *op, char *params) @@ -126,8 +133,15 @@ int command_fire(object *op, char *params) { + int dir; op->contr->fire_on=1; - return move_player(op, params?atoi(params):0); + dir = params?atoi(params):0; + if ( dir <0 || dir >=9 ){ + new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,op,"Can't fire to a non adjacent square."); + return 0; + } + else + return move_player(op, dir); } int command_fire_stop(object *op, char *params) From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 19 22:23:12 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] spell change changes Message-ID: <1066620192.2352.11.camel@oberon.Kameria> So I noticed that now bulletwalls and the like seem to cast spells that are in their inventory and not use the other_arch field. I think that is ok, but there are a lot of broken maps that need to be fixed if this is the case. Looking at a couple maps I did I see a web shooter that now shoots bullets(?) and a poision cloud trap that now spews fire. It also means the Java editor could be updated to remove the now useless other_arch entry field and the help file changed to specify inventory use. I also noticed that some of the npcs with magic spells in their inventories are now carrying around null arches (makes sense if they werent updated this would be the case). These can be fixed of course but I was wondering what the extent of this is actually. How much is broken at the moment. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 02:45:10 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Minor fix to a major bug. In-Reply-To: <20031018231804.1801245e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> References: <20031018032052.2dd9404c.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <20031018231804.1801245e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Message-ID: <3F939286.1000600@laposte.net> > Ok, after i finally was able to compile the server for which i had to change a > misspelling (see the misspelling.diff file i'm sending), i realized my previous > patch wouldnt work cause i used the wrong variable inside the if, but now i > changed it and tested and it seems to work fine, not blocking the shift key for > firing nor the control key for running. > > I hope it can be uploaded to the CVS soon (and even beeing updated in the > metalforge servers) or it could be of use for those that maybe already knew > about this bug. > > Any comments apreciated as always :) > Katia. I'll test it when i get time, if my (home) provider works :) And if no one objects, i'll commit it let's say next week. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 05:27:23 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff Message-ID: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> Hello. I finally fixed python plugins to work under Windows. I'll submit patches when i'm home, assuming my provider works & i can diff files :) I got a remark concerning the python plugin, though, at least as it is used in the casino scripts (Goths tavern, iirc): When you gain gold, the gold is created on the machine's spot. But what happens is that first gold is created, then # of coins is set. Which leads to incorrect behaviour: if there is gold on the spot already, the newly created 1 gold coin is merged with it, then the count is fixed. So you can lose gold!! The sequence is the following: * create 1 gold coin from plugin * server code creates it, and merges it with gold already on floor * plugin sets # of gold coin to gained value => incorrect count I don't know the 'right' way to fix: either server must not merge newly-created items, or must not insert'em in the map already. Or python plugin must take into account already existing gold (so something like # gold coin = current # gold + gain - 1 [1 coming from the object creation]). Just my 2 gold coins, err, cents of euro :) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 05:40:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation Message-ID: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> Here's an idea which could be interesting to implement: teleportation shops. I think something like this already exists, lke 'dragon hangar'. I was thinking of something slightly more powerful: you could ask to be teleported anywhere on world maps (maps in /world subdir). What do you think? My idea was something like 'write down your coordinates, pay the sum, step on teleporter', et voila. Or 'say coordinates', so you don't need to find something to write. That would help moving into bigworld maps, i think... Suggestions? Comments? Criticism? 'Nicolas' Ryo _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 18 14:46:29 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: AW: [CF-Devel] marker arch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1066506388.573.22.camel@oberon.Kameria> On Sat, 2003-10-18 at 14:21, Michael Toennies wrote: > Use scripts. Put a invisible force or info objects in the > player when he has done what he need to access a area then > attach a script to the stairs or exit. I have done it in daimonin > with the stairs down to the merc guild. > I actually done this exact thing in my building and guild scripts but it would be _real_ useful to be able to do it right out of the box so to speak. I am thinking you just need to subclass a trigger to call the move marker function actually and then make an arch. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 11:14:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> Message-ID: <1066666490.548.5.camel@oberon.Kameria> On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 06:40, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Here's an idea which could be interesting to implement: teleportation shops. > > I think something like this already exists, lke 'dragon hangar'. > > I was thinking of something slightly more powerful: you could ask to be > teleported anywhere on world maps (maps in /world subdir). > > What do you think? > My idea was something like 'write down your coordinates, pay the sum, > step on teleporter', et voila. > Or 'say coordinates', so you don't need to find something to write. > > That would help moving into bigworld maps, i think... > > Suggestions? Comments? Criticism? > > 'Nicolas' Ryo I wouldn't want to help moving around bigworld too much. It might be nice to have the ships and some other transports to get from place to place and of course the guilds have many portals - I can even see a series of 'moon gates' that let you travel to certain places based on a schedule but having a teleport to anywhere you like would be too much. Plus as more stuff gets built on the bigworld world maps this will run the risk of being abused to get around blocked areas and into places you shouldn't be... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 11:28:25 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:19 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > What do you think? > My idea was something like 'write down your coordinates, pay the sum, > step on teleporter', et voila. > Or 'say coordinates', so you don't need to find something to write. How would a player obtain the map coordinates? Do you mean something like lattitude and longitude (ex: 270, 140), map path (ex: /city/scorn/temples/mostrai) or some other way? -- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 11:31:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> Message-ID: <1066667510.548.8.camel@oberon.Kameria> On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 06:27, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > I finally fixed python plugins to work under Windows. > I'll submit patches when i'm home, assuming my provider works & i can > diff files :) > > I got a remark concerning the python plugin, though, at least as it is > used in the casino scripts (Goths tavern, iirc): > > When you gain gold, the gold is created on the machine's spot. > But what happens is that first gold is created, then # of coins is set. > Which leads to incorrect behaviour: if there is gold on the spot > already, the newly created 1 gold coin is merged with it, then the count > is fixed. > So you can lose gold!! > > The sequence is the following: > * create 1 gold coin from plugin > * server code creates it, and merges it with gold already on floor > * plugin sets # of gold coin to gained value => incorrect count > > I don't know the 'right' way to fix: either server must not merge > newly-created items, or must not insert'em in the map already. > Or python plugin must take into account already existing gold > (so something like # gold coin = current # gold + gain - 1 [1 coming > from the object creation]). > > Just my 2 gold coins, err, cents of euro :) > > Nicolas 'Ryo' > You can of course pick up your winnings to avoid this happening :) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 12:05:27 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <1066667510.548.8.camel@oberon.Kameria> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> <1066667510.548.8.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <3F9415D7.1030202@laposte.net> > You can of course pick up your winnings to avoid this happening :) Yes, but it's still a bug, no? Nicolas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 12:08:04 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> > How would a player obtain the map coordinates? > > Do you mean something like lattitude and longitude (ex: 270, 140), map > path (ex: /city/scorn/temples/mostrai) or some other way? I was thinking something like: world map x, world map y, x, y So like: 111, 117, 30, 35 (first the 2 coordinates to find the right world_xxx_yyy map, then coordinates in the map itself) Nicolas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 12:10:26 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <1066666490.548.5.camel@oberon.Kameria> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <1066666490.548.5.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <3F941702.3020209@laposte.net> > I wouldn't want to help moving around bigworld too much. It might be > nice to have the ships and some other transports to get from place to > place and of course the guilds have many portals - I can even see a > series of 'moon gates' that let you travel to certain places based on a > schedule but having a teleport to anywhere you like would be too much. > Plus as more stuff gets built on the bigworld world maps this will run > the risk of being abused to get around blocked areas and into places you > shouldn't be... The trouble is that right now, traveling in big world maps IS AWFUL. Maybe it's because there aren't many areas to check, or something else... Remember that this teleportation system would be one way, and could be made expensive (like: 1000 plat per trip) Agreed on the blocked areas.... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 12:24:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch submission: 'tell' improvement Message-ID: <3F941A60.2000304@laposte.net> Hello. Here's a small patch to tweak the 'tell' command. You can now enter the first letters of the name only, provided there is only one matching player. IE if you have 'playerA', 'playerB' and 'human', you can do 'tell h hello'. But you'll have to use 'tell playera hello' since 'player' can be 2 players. Note: not case sensitive. If I don't have any negative feedback, I'll commit it in 1 or 2 weeks... Nicolas 'Ryo' (note: patch directly in mail, since it isn't that big) Index: include/sproto.h =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/include/sproto.h,v retrieving revision 1.96 diff -r1.96 sproto.h 476c476,477 < player *find_player(char *plname); --- > player *find_player(char *plname); > player* find_player_partial_name( char* plname ); Index: server/c_chat.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/server/c_chat.c,v retrieving revision 1.15 diff -r1.15 c_chat.c 149,152c149,153 < < for(pl=first_player;pl!=NULL;pl=pl->next) < if(strncasecmp(pl->ob->name,name,MAX_NAME)==0) { < --- > > pl = find_player_partial_name( name ); > > if ( pl ) > { 155c156 < "You tell %s: %s", name, msg); --- > "You tell %s: %s", pl->ob->name, msg); 159,161c160,163 < return 1; < } < new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,op,"No such player."); --- > return 1; > } > > new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,op,"No such player or ambiguous name."); Index: server/player.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/server/player.c,v retrieving revision 1.137 diff -r1.137 player.c 52c52,73 < } --- > } > > player* find_player_partial_name( char* plname ) > { > player* pl; > player* found = NULL; > size_t namelen = strlen( plname ); > for ( pl = first_player; pl != NULL; pl = pl->next ) > { > if ( strlen( pl->ob->name ) < namelen ) > continue; > > if ( !strnicmp( pl->ob->name, plname, namelen ) ) > { > if ( found ) > return NULL; > > found = pl; > } > } > return found; > } _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 12:31:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] swamp bug Message-ID: <1066671107.548.14.camel@oberon.Kameria> I find in current CVS a segfault when you sink into the swamp and die. gdb sez: Segmentation fault find_obj_by_type_subtype (who=0x8146e00, type = 43 subtype = 21) at object.c 2456 2456 if (tmp->type == type && tmp->subtype == subtype) return tmp; _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 12:31:26 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch submission: plugin fixes for Win32 Message-ID: <3F941BEE.4000101@laposte.net> Hello. I finally took the time to fix Python plugin under Windows. Basically, I had to wrap fix_player, free and free_object in hooks. Windows doesn't like if you free memory allocated by the server in the plugin dll, and vice-versa, thus free and free_object wrappers. And fix_player uses variables from the server, not initialized in the plugin DLL (so you find yourself with divide by zero and such...) I'll commit in 1 or 2 weeks if no one objects :) Nicolas 'Ryo' -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: plugin.win32.patch.bz2 Type: application/x-bzip2 Size: 2001 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20031020/e63766eb/plugin.win32.patch.bin From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 12:48:25 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Minor fix to a major bug. In-Reply-To: <20031018231804.1801245e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> References: <20031018032052.2dd9404c.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <20031018231804.1801245e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Message-ID: <3F941FE9.9030302@laposte.net> Just tested your patch, changed it just a little, first check direction then update run_on / fire_on (to avoid weird things). Looks ok to me, I'll commit it in CVS in 1 or 2 weeks if no one objects. Also added sanity check on player.c:move_player, to make sure direction is [0..8]. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 18:14:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skills bug: god-given resistances disappear In-Reply-To: <3F8ECFF8.50801@laposte.net> References: <3F8ECFF8.50801@laposte.net> Message-ID: I can switch the god-given aura on and off at will: >"apply light sword" You can no longer use the skill: praying. Your resistance to fire drops to 0%. Your resistance to confusion rises to 25%. Your resistance to slow rises to 20%. Readied skill: one handed weapons. You wield light sword +3 * (wielded). >"ready_skill praying" You can no longer use the skill: one handed weapons. Readied skill: praying. Your resistance to fire rises to 20%. Your resistance to confusion drops to 15%. Your resistance to slow drops to -30%. "cast holy word" does not reactivate the resistances. even more interesting: holy symbol: >"ready_skill praying" You can no longer use the skill: one handed weapons. You ready Paladin's holy symbol. You can now use the skill: praying. Your resistance to magic rises to 30%. You stop using the Paladin's holy symbol. Your resistance to magic drops to 0%. Readied skill: praying. Your resistance to confusion rises to 20%. Your resistance to fear rises to 100%. Your resistance to blinding attacks rises to 100%. So we see the server first finding the skill tool and applying it. Thus we get the associated magic resistance. Then instead some other object is applied. I assume it is either the object containing the experience for the praying skill or the force object with the god's aura. Or rather it seems to me these two objects are somehow mixed up. A bug that is possibly related: I just don't get any items/prayers/weapon enchantments etc. from my god. I am level 109 in praying and have 240 grace(without altar). I only always get : You pray over the Altar of Mostrai. You feel a holy presence! You feel just fine! So some healing spell is cast. My impression is the server can not find the arches with the god gifts. How did i get level 109 in praying already? A bug of course. I just threw some poison clouds at madmen when i suddenly got gobs of exp. I went from overall level 11 to 110 in one step. I got experience in all skills proportionally to the amount in them. So i assume the routine to remove exp when dying was called somehow, with some value from an under-run or wrongly casted signed/unsigned. The amount i got is suspiciously near 2^32. Then i also noticed, that my client shows me negative overall exp. The gcfclient from cvs i use is supposed to throw an error if neither long nor long long have the 8 byte for the int64 types. Finally my 2 cents about the new skill system: I like it. I do not think the 4 wizard skill too unbalanced. I personally find summoning the most tedious to raise, not sorcery. That is because one stops gaining sp while steering a golem. But different skills are supposed to be .. well different. I find myself forced to use spells i never used much before. IMO, that is something positive. Of course it's very difficult to get a high level in singing or such. But I'd rather call it a challenge than a problem. Nobody complains about karate vs. punching or dragons vs. quez. either. Bernd Edler _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 20:23:20 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <1066666490.548.5.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <20031021012320.48414.qmail@web21309.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd Mitchell wrote: > I wouldn't want to help moving around bigworld too much. It might be > nice to have the ships and some other transports to get from place to > place and of course the guilds have many portals - I can even see a Speaking of which... I noticed that there is no access to the sea from Navar, leaving me to wonder how the ships get out to go to their destinations? Someone should open a gap in the land somewhere to let the water out B-). http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 20:25:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F941702.3020209@laposte.net> Message-ID: <20031021012531.52032.qmail@web21303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Nicolas Weeger wrote: > The trouble is that right now, traveling in big world maps IS AWFUL. > Maybe it's because there aren't many areas to check, or something else... Have you ever tried walking around a large outdoors area with very little in the way of tracks or roads? It is AWFUL B-). http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 20 20:28:44 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] swamp bug In-Reply-To: <1066671107.548.14.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <20031021012844.6511.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Todd Mitchell wrote: > I find in current CVS a segfault when you sink into the swamp and die. > > gdb sez: > Segmentation fault > > find_obj_by_type_subtype (who=0x8146e00, type = 43 subtype = 21) at > object.c 2456 > > 2456 if (tmp->type == type && tmp->subtype == subtype) return tmp; I have found (and fixed/posted) a bunch of similar bugs in inv_checkers. Should I add to my TODO list to track them all down? http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 01:53:00 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Minor fix to a major bug. In-Reply-To: <3F941FE9.9030302@laposte.net> References: <20031018032052.2dd9404c.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <20031018231804.1801245e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <3F941FE9.9030302@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F94D7CC.5090508@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Just tested your patch, changed it just a little, first check direction > then update run_on / fire_on (to avoid weird things). > > Looks ok to me, I'll commit it in CVS in 1 or 2 weeks if no one objects. > > Also added sanity check on player.c:move_player, to make sure direction > is [0..8]. The patch looks fine to me. Feel free to commit it sooner if you want. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 01:54:08 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pickup behaviour & ideas In-Reply-To: <3F90F92C.2050305@laposte.net> References: <3F90F92C.2050305@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F94D810.1010607@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > It seems pickup modes don't care about paid/unpaid status. > So pickup 4 in a shop will pick everything... > The only things that checks unpaid are pickup by density and newpickup > mode. > > Some people think this should be fixed so you don't pickup unpaid items. > What do you think? > > Also, I'd like to improve newpickup. > Basically, be able to do: > pickup +bow > pickup -weapon > > instead of having to compute those powers of 2 and add & mess around... > Would also make it easier for client (for instance gtk) to change pickup > based on menus, without having to guess what the player is using. (just > a wrapper for pickup +bow and such) There is already a menu within the gtk client for the new pickup modes. I certainly wouldn't see it having a bit more fined grained control. I remember there was some case where I wanted to differentiate, but don't remember what it is now. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 02:00:27 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] spell change changes In-Reply-To: <1066620192.2352.11.camel@oberon.Kameria> References: <1066620192.2352.11.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <3F94D98B.2030706@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: > So I noticed that now bulletwalls and the like seem to cast spells that > are in their inventory and not use the other_arch field. I coded it so that if other_arch was set, and nothing was in the inventory, it should use other_arch. There could of course be a bug in that, but I thouught I tested that. > > I think that is ok, but there are a lot of broken maps that need to be > fixed if this is the case. Looking at a couple maps I did I see a web > shooter that now shoots bullets(?) and a poision cloud trap that now > spews fire. It also means the Java editor could be updated to remove > the now useless other_arch entry field and the help file changed to > specify inventory use. That is odd. They should only do that if something was somehow added to the inventory of the object, which I don't think there is any code to automatically do that. I do agree that the editor should probably get updated to use the preferred method, which is to have it in the inventory. > > I also noticed that some of the npcs with magic spells in their > inventories are now carrying around null arches (makes sense if they > werent updated this would be the case). These can be fixed of course > but I was wondering what the extent of this is actually. How much is > broken at the moment. that is also odd. Spells before were not really objects. Now there were certain ability_... objects, which were basically spells. I thought those only got updated. However, as I think about it, it may be that I replaced them, and updated the treasure lists, so everything should be sane. However, if there are monsters with spells specifically placed in their inventory, then that may not work. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 02:09:15 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:20 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Minor fix to a major bug. In-Reply-To: <3F94D7CC.5090508@sonic.net> References: <20031018032052.2dd9404c.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <20031018231804.1801245e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <3F941FE9.9030302@laposte.net> <3F94D7CC.5090508@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F94DB9B.4050404@laposte.net> > The patch looks fine to me. Feel free to commit it sooner if you want. Ok, will commit it tonite, then. Nicolas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 02:12:59 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> How would a player obtain the map coordinates? >> >> Do you mean something like lattitude and longitude (ex: 270, 140), map >> path (ex: /city/scorn/temples/mostrai) or some other way? > > > I was thinking something like: world map x, world map y, x, y > So like: 111, 117, 30, 35 > (first the 2 coordinates to find the right world_xxx_yyy map, then > coordinates in the map itself) Perhaps, but to me that just exposes a lot more of the internals off how the maps are laid out and it certainly wouldn't be easy for the players to do. You also have risks like player entering coordinates that is in the middle of hte ocean, on the blocked mountain tops, etc. In theory, you could check for blockness. But you may still have cases with little islands surrounded by water which someone could end up on. If you really wanted to do such an idea, then one could put out 10 (or other number) of set points. Not necessarily right next to points of interest, but could put general descriptions (Great forest to west of scorn, 'mount sorig' (highest mountain on the continent), etc. Thus, it may still provide some means to accelerate where you want to get to, with it still be more sensical for players to use (for various quests, NPC's could perhaps even state that it is near whatever teleporter). For a little color, make an image that denotes it is a gate exit point. Thus, if you do find something of interest on the maps, and happen to notice such an exit point nearby, you could know to use it to teleport in the future. But the idea of moon gates or other things is probably a bit more interesting - this idea is sort of like that. If you really want, some ability that by paying certain amounts of moon, you could teleport to whatever moon gate from the teleporters guild or whatever. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 02:15:34 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pickup behaviour & ideas In-Reply-To: <3F94D810.1010607@sonic.net> References: <3F90F92C.2050305@laposte.net> <3F94D810.1010607@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F94DD16.1070203@laposte.net> > There is already a menu within the gtk client for the new pickup modes. Yes, but it computes value based on its own internal state. So the first time you use it it resets the pickup mode, since it doesn't know the player's current one. (or i'm mistaking somewhere) Also, I don't know for other clients (GTK isn't the only one used). > I certainly wouldn't see it having a bit more fined grained control. I > remember there was some case where I wanted to differentiate, but don't > remember what it is now. I assume you mean 'wouldn't MIND see' :) Guess I'll tweak it some at some point, then. I think too something is weird, like arrows & bolt together, things like that. Also the display of the current pickup mode looks to me slightly geeky, not that easy to understand sometimes ^.^ Nicolas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 02:21:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> > Perhaps, but to me that just exposes a lot more of the internals off > how the maps are laid out and it certainly wouldn't be easy for the > players to do. Well, mapinfo gives already some hints, since it gives the whole map path... > You also have risks like player entering coordinates that is in the > middle of hte ocean, on the blocked mountain tops, etc. True. So either we check for this kind of things, or tell the player 'use at your own risk' :) > If you really wanted to do such an idea, then one could put out 10 (or > other number) of set points. Not necessarily right next to points of > interest, but could put general descriptions (Great forest to west of > scorn, 'mount sorig' (highest mountain on the continent), etc. > > Thus, it may still provide some means to accelerate where you want to > get to, with it still be more sensical for players to use (for various > quests, NPC's could perhaps even state that it is near whatever > teleporter). The only drawback I can see is that, if we ever add another gate, we'll need to update all teleportation houses with this new point. Not that a big deal maybe, but still... > For a little color, make an image that denotes it is a gate exit > point. Thus, if you do find something of interest on the maps, and > happen to notice such an exit point nearby, you could know to use it to > teleport in the future. > > But the idea of moon gates or other things is probably a bit more > interesting - this idea is sort of like that. If you really want, some > ability that by paying certain amounts of moon, you could teleport to > whatever moon gate from the teleporters guild or whatever. Would be fun to track ingame time/date, and not only time. Would be fun, imagine: this gate is only accessible from the 5th to the 10th of the month :) The idea of guilds is nice too, but it's slightly more restraining. But yes, being able to teleport at some places would be a great feature, however we implement it... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 12:14:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Minor fix to a major bug. In-Reply-To: <20031018231804.1801245e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> References: <20031018032052.2dd9404c.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <20031018231804.1801245e.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Message-ID: <3F956988.8000407@laposte.net> Committed to CVS. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 13:40:54 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] The new magic skills References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> Message-ID: <002101c39802$df1e7e60$434bb850@KOLF2> I am not sure whether this is too late or not. Generally I like the idea of sorting the magic into categories - summoning a monster is maybe really quite different to writing a rune. Balancing the different categories would be hard, but I guess it would be possible. But I see another problem and that is the 'newbies'. As a newbie who never played a similiar RPG before, there are many options between he or she has to chose. I will try to go through this choices in the order in which they apear to the newbie. While you read the list, please forget everything you know about Crossfire ^_~. (1) Are the stats good or should I re-roll them? (2) Now I can swap my stats ... which values are important for me anyway? (3) Ok, done with that, let's pick a race ... quite a lot, which one is going to be the 'best' for me? (4) Wow, next choice: which class should I chose? (5) Done with that, let's beat up some baddies. But should I gather exp for the one-handed weapons or for the two-handed weapons or for the missle weapons? I should better pick whatever is still usefull for me at higher levels...since I don't know the weapons, I have to try and be lucky. (6) Ok, I got a few HP, now I want to try some magic. Uhm...which 'school' should I join? (7) After magic I learned piety...the next choice: which god should I follow? The choices enable getting an individual character and this list might apear harmless to you. But I think we should consider that atleast five of these decisions have to be made during the first minutes of playing the game, the decisions (5) and (6) during the early stages of the game. These decisions influence the possibilities and difficulty for a really long time and the new player knows nearly nothing about what is going to be usefull later. You might (correctly) say that you should look on the webpage for help. But who wants to read a game documentation for hours when you don't really know whether you will like the game at all? My advice would be that instead of splitting the melee weapons skill into 1/2-handed weapons and instead of splitting the wizardry skill into magic school skills, simplify things. Now I don't advise to remove 90% of the races and 80% of the classes, but pick a few "newbie-friendly" races and classes, and make the others available through an "advanced" option. My idea is somewhere along this lines: (1) There is a room where you can select your race. There is one balanced race (human), one magic race (elves?), one priest race (gnomes?) and one physical race (dwarves?). There are stairs going down into a room with all the other races. (2) Next is a room with classes. Same organization as above. (3) Following this you can modify your stats. Prior to this you just had the average starting stats of the selected race/class! My idea of the stat selection is that you can modify each stat to be one point higher or lower than the average value (15, but modified depending on race/class). For this you get seven "holy coins" which you can spend into stats. (Maybe there are seven wizards with a potion in front of them. Drinking a potion costs you one "holy coin" each time. You can drink a potion only two times). I think that would simplify things a bit. There would still be the choice (4) whether to use a missle or a melee weapon and (5) which cult to join. But at least you could be quite sure the player does not get too confused (ok, joining a cult can confuse you a bit), and that you get a playable character (except when he picks a dwarven warrior and prays to Gaea...). Or go even further and let only the newbie-friendly cults stay in Scorn. I hope my thoughts are clear. "Dravonk" _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 13:52:05 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] The new magic skills In-Reply-To: <002101c39802$df1e7e60$434bb850@KOLF2> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <002101c39802$df1e7e60$434bb850@KOLF2> Message-ID: <3F958055.7030404@laposte.net> > I am not sure whether this is too late or not. Generally I like the idea of > sorting the magic into categories - summoning a monster is maybe really > quite different to writing a rune. Balancing the different categories would > be hard, but I guess it would be possible. Hum, are you suggesting something like before the choice, tell something like 'for total newbies, try this, and that'? The trouble is that it really depends on what the player wants to play. One handed weapon good? Yes, if you play warrior. Magic good? Yes, if you play sorcerer. This race good? Yes, for that class. The list goes on. So yes, i think it's almost required to read the documentation. If i remember, there is something on the web site explaining the different choices for creating a player: races, classes, stats, and such. > "Dravonk" Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 14:24:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] The new magic skills In-Reply-To: <002101c39802$df1e7e60$434bb850@KOLF2> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <002101c39802$df1e7e60$434bb850@KOLF2> Message-ID: <200310211524.30884.drashian@shadedraco.com> I personally agree with a lot of these ideas, as that was pretty much the exact experience I had when I started a few months ago. Despite the fact that I've played quite a few RPGs, I never know exactly what stats are going to be most important to me in a particular game. Race wasn't much of a problem, as the dragon was clearly perfect for me, but there were so many classes... I'll borrow an idea here from another online game I played, Nexus: The Kingdom of the Winds (http://www.nexustk.com/). The characters never got so complicated as in Crossfire (individualization was done through visible armor, armor colors, various hair styles, and various hair colors). However, the character creation had an interesting twist which would work well with your ideas: everyone started about the same, besides choosing their look and gender. After going through a small tutorial area (which should have been optional, but wasn't), they got to play around in the world for a while. It wasn't until they'd gotten themselves up to level 5 and gotten a little taste of what the fighting and magic systems were like that it came time to choose a class. At that point, you stopped gaining exp until you picked one of the classes. Something to consider. :) -- Devin (Drashian) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 15:04:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] The new magic skills References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <002101c39802$df1e7e60$434bb850@KOLF2> <200310211524.30884.drashian@shadedraco.com> Message-ID: <003e01c3980e$997a2970$803ae940@yualaptop> In general, every single RPG and MUD that I have ever played; the first few characters are "throw-away" characters to get familiar w/ the RPG/MUD. I don't think having unclassed 15th level characters is going to help anyone get familiar w/ the game much. Start off as a dwarf rogue and see how that character feels. Try out the elf warrior... dragon monk... etc... I do agree w/ making character choices simpler for end users: Firstly, make it obvious what the "prefered" classes are for each race. There would be nothing to prevent the player from choosing a class that doesn't mesh well w/ the race; that would be a challenge. ;) It would be nice to have a "normal" set of attributes for each of the races that players can modify w/ bonus points -- like Wizardry. Heck let the player subtract points to get more points for other stats. This would end the whole "rolling for hours" bit. It now becomes "deciding for hours." If Crossfire were to adopt the "newbie" player style mentioned below, it could be done by having generic "guest" characters. These characters could be generated really quickly by the server... random race, random stats, GUEST + [ something ] for a name. They roam the world without a class at level 0. At level 1, they should be forced to either abandon the world or choose their class and name. Maybe give them some bonus stat points at this point in time. Personally, I think it would be fun to allow magic users to be able to ABANDON their current school of magic for another school. They would still retain the spells they had from their abandoned school, but are limited to their current level in that magic school for learning magic and such. It would also be cool to have the level in a school of magic affect how well they learn other magics... ie, a 10th level fire mage has -10 [ something ] to learn cold spells; while s/he would have +10 to learn fire/+5 explosive... Once abandoned, that school is closed to the mage. In this fashion, there could be "higher order" schools that require like level 10 fire, level 5 cold, etc... to be allowed to study that school of magic. so ends my ramblings... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Devin Withers" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [CF-Devel] The new magic skills > I personally agree with a lot of these ideas, as that was pretty much the > exact experience I had when I started a few months ago. Despite the fact that > I've played quite a few RPGs, I never know exactly what stats are going to be > most important to me in a particular game. Race wasn't much of a problem, as > the dragon was clearly perfect for me, but there were so many classes... > > I'll borrow an idea here from another online game I played, Nexus: The Kingdom > of the Winds (http://www.nexustk.com/). The characters never got so > complicated as in Crossfire (individualization was done through visible > armor, armor colors, various hair styles, and various hair colors). However, > the character creation had an interesting twist which would work well with > your ideas: everyone started about the same, besides choosing their look and > gender. After going through a small tutorial area (which should have been > optional, but wasn't), they got to play around in the world for a while. It > wasn't until they'd gotten themselves up to level 5 and gotten a little taste > of what the fighting and magic systems were like that it came time to choose > a class. At that point, you stopped gaining exp until you picked one of the > classes. > > Something to consider. :) > > -- > Devin (Drashian) > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 21 20:49:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] The new magic skills In-Reply-To: <003e01c3980e$997a2970$803ae940@yualaptop> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <002101c39802$df1e7e60$434bb850@KOLF2> <200310211524.30884.drashian@shadedraco.com> <003e01c3980e$997a2970$803ae940@yualaptop> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Yua CaVan wrote: > In general, every single RPG and MUD that I have ever played; the first few > characters are "throw-away" characters to get familiar w/ the RPG/MUD. I I'm with you on this. I certainly start a new game by trying it, not be studying the rules heavily. If I get slammed, too bad, I'll try again. > I do agree w/ making character choices simpler for end users: I actually don't like the current character selection system at all. I was playing crossfire in the early days and preferred the older style selection rather than the current "move from area to area & pick a class". For one thing the icon created initially is lost when you enter a class. > Firstly, make it obvious what the "prefered" classes are for each race. > There would be nothing to prevent the player from choosing a class that > doesn't mesh well w/ the race; that would be a challenge. ;) For sure. In AD&D1 I always wanted to play a Halfling Fighter (no Thief abilities) just for something a bit bizarre. No one could understand this desire. Pity I never got to it :) > so ends my ramblings... and start mine... Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, zzbrock@uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 01:52:56 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> Perhaps, but to me that just exposes a lot more of the internals off >> how the maps are laid out and it certainly wouldn't be easy for the >> players to do. > > > Well, mapinfo gives already some hints, since it gives the whole map > path... But that doesn't tell you position on the map. And arguably, the mapinfo command could be removed or otherwise more hidden (eg, have a map name in the map header, and display that instead of the map path). > The only drawback I can see is that, if we ever add another gate, we'll > need to update all teleportation houses with this new point. Not that a > big deal maybe, but still... Not really true. It means if you want to add that gate and have it accessible, you need to update the teleporter shop. But one could certainly see cases of the teleporter shops in different towns even being a bit different (eg, the one in navar city may have some destinations that are more in its local vicinity). Also, I'd expect the teleporters in the shops to be one way teleporters - they will get you there, but you need some other way to get back. > Would be fun to track ingame time/date, and not only time. Would be fun, > imagine: this gate is only accessible from the 5th to the 10th of the > month :) I believe this is already done. The weather code has to rely on that for seasons and what not. The other reason to disallow user supplied coordinates: There are some maps, lake county comes immediately to mind, but probably places like pup land also, where movement on the map itself is restricted, eg, it is part of a quest or something to be able to get to a certain space on the map. If the user could supply coordinates, they could easily bypass any such checks. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 02:05:01 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 22-Oct-03 Mark Wedel wrote: > I believe this is already done. The weather code has to rely on that for > seasons and what not. I believe it also tracks the moon phase, though I do not think it presently uses it for anything. One could make the reliability of the moon gates go up, as one neared the full moon. At a new moon, they would be fully unreliable. --- Tim Rightnour NetBSD: Free multi-architecture OS http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD supported hardware database: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/hw.cgi _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 02:06:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] The new magic skills In-Reply-To: References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <002101c39802$df1e7e60$434bb850@KOLF2> <200310211524.30884.drashian@shadedraco.com> <003e01c3980e$997a2970$803ae940@yualaptop> Message-ID: <3F962C87.9030809@sonic.net> Some quick notes: Several of the decisions mentioned aren't that big a deal. At low levels, it really doesn't make too much difference what weapon/skill your exp goes into. I'd also note that while you can have a very simple generation system which is good for newbies, then experienced players say 'this is just the same as I played last time'. So in that sense, having a more complex method allows people to try out more/different things. That said, I have mentioned in the past the idea of a nicer interface for character (ideally, IMO, would be to have something like a nice menu provided on the client, with different selections and documentation on what you want to do.) However, there are probably some simple improvements that could be done: Remove stat rolling - just give the player X points to adjust around as they want to. Perhaps reduce the number of classes some. At some level, providing player mechanism to by some starting equipment/packages would be nice. However, I don't have a good solution depending on how newbie the person is. How can you really go about explaining all the stats and what you need them for? Same for skills? At some point, you really need to say 'RTFM'. Perhaps the simplest would be as the suggestion - have some number of premade characters. Something like a first question: Fast character creation for new players, or detailed creation (f/d). If the player selects detailed, something like teh current method. If the player selects fast, then something like: Your choices for character are: 1) Human fighter 2) Elf Wizard 3) dwarf cleric ... Some number of pre-made characters (Templates). Include in the template a book describing the character and its attributes (note info about the race and class). Thus, new players could be sure of getting a good character (in terms of stats, and stats in the right place, and right race/class combo). The book could also mention that a bit 'the fighter has high strength, which improves damage, constituation, which improves his hit points, and dexterity, which improves his speed and armor class. His stats in ... are lower, because they are needed for spellcasting'. For those template characters, I'd only include the main/normal characters (eg, not some of the mixed fighter/wizard ones for example). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 02:10:02 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Pickup behaviour & ideas In-Reply-To: <3F94DD16.1070203@laposte.net> References: <3F90F92C.2050305@laposte.net> <3F94D810.1010607@sonic.net> <3F94DD16.1070203@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F962D4A.2080400@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> There is already a menu within the gtk client for the new pickup modes. > > > Yes, but it computes value based on its own internal state. > So the first time you use it it resets the pickup mode, since it doesn't > know the player's current one. (or i'm mistaking somewhere) > Also, I don't know for other clients (GTK isn't the only one used). Yeah, currently, there is no way for the gtk client to know what the state is. This also means for things like if the player notices what the odd bitmasks is an makes a binding for it to quickly switch around what to pick up. That said, IMO, there are certain things the client should provide, and putting too much complexity in the client isn't the solution. The client mapping of pickup codes in a nice menu is one of those. All that really needs to be added is some method of the client getting what the pickup mode is so it can have its menus properly updated. Having something like 'pickup swords,armor,bolts' starts to get unwieldy when you realize the number of possible options there. OTOH, the abilty for the server to take strings may not be a bad thing. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 03:41:40 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F9642C4.9040205@laposte.net> > I believe it also tracks the moon phase, though I do not think it presently > uses it for anything. > > One could make the reliability of the moon gates go up, as one neared the full > moon. At a new moon, they would be fully unreliable. That would be fun. But we'd need another teleport system for when moon gates aren't reliable :) Maybe sun ones? Obviously different destinations, though. The reason is that (currently) navigation in bigworld sucks bad, and having gates that work even three quartesr of the time would still leave one quarter with no way to reach destinations easily. > Tim Rightnour Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 03:44:11 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:21 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F96435B.1070800@laposte.net> > But that doesn't tell you position on the map. And arguably, the > mapinfo command could be removed or otherwise more hidden (eg, have a > map name in the map header, and display that instead of the map path). Side note: maby maps don'' seem to have a descriptive name. That should be fixed first :) > Not really true. It means if you want to add that gate and have it > accessible, you need to update the teleporter shop. But one could > certainly see cases of the teleporter shops in different towns even > being a bit different (eg, the one in navar city may have some > destinations that are more in its local vicinity). Sounds reasonable. But it would be nice to have in each town teleporters to other main towns. > Also, I'd expect the teleporters in the shops to be one way teleporters > - they will get you there, but you need some other way to get back. Yes, I was seeing this like that too. Else word of recall / town portal are less fun :) > I believe this is already done. The weather code has to rely on that > for seasons and what not. > > The other reason to disallow user supplied coordinates: There are some > maps, lake county comes immediately to mind, but probably places like > pup land also, where movement on the map itself is restricted, eg, it is > part of a quest or something to be able to get to a certain space on the > map. If the user could supply coordinates, they could easily bypass any > such checks. I was thinking of teleporting in /world maps only. Are Lake County / Pupland there now? But yes, some checking should probably be done... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 06:29:12 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F9642C4.9040205@laposte.net> References: <3F9642C4.9040205@laposte.net> Message-ID: <20031022112912.GA21328@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> Hi! On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 10:41:40 +0200, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > >I believe it also tracks the moon phase, though I do not think it presently > >uses it for anything. > > > >One could make the reliability of the moon gates go up, as one neared the > >full > >moon. At a new moon, they would be fully unreliable. > > That would be fun. > But we'd need another teleport system for when moon gates aren't reliable :) > Maybe sun ones? > Obviously different destinations, though. > > The reason is that (currently) navigation in bigworld sucks bad, and > having gates that work even three quartesr of the time would still leave > one quarter with no way to reach destinations easily. > Maybe we (the characters) need a better means of navigation, like a sextant? This could be a device that, when applied, tells the estimated position relative to Scorn centre. Then the players could use a book to remember positions where they've been before, e. g. where the entry to the dungeon was on the world map. This would only be working in the world maps of course. And maybe only if the weather is good enough to see the sky. Bye Jochen -- Jochen Suckfuell --- http://www.suckfuell.net/jochen/ --- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 07:17:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <20031022112912.GA21328@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> References: <3F9642C4.9040205@laposte.net> <20031022112912.GA21328@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <3F96755A.8060907@laposte.net> > Maybe we (the characters) need a better means of navigation, like a > sextant? This could be a device that, when applied, tells the estimated > position relative to Scorn centre. > Then the players could use a book to remember positions where they've > been before, e. g. where the entry to the dungeon was on the world map. > This would only be working in the world maps of course. And maybe only > if the weather is good enough to see the sky. Now that sounds like a nice idea. Maybe we could have sextants with different centers, like Scorn, Navar, Brest, and such. > > Bye > Jochen Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 09:51:36 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F969978.1040400@laposte.net> Another idea michtoen mentioned on irc: 'marking runes'. You put one at some place, and when you recall it you get teleported there. Basically, town portal, but you can get back many times at the same place, and you can remember more'an one destination. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 12:13:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> Message-ID: <200310221313.55713.aashenfe@plaind.com> OK I couldn't resist submitting this idea. Has anyone read the "Chronicles of Amber"? For those who haven't. The characters in the book have playing cards with pictures of their brothers and sisters on them. They can use the card of the person they want to contact to talk to the person, or (More interestingly) teleport to the other person (The other person pulls them through). Crossfire could do something similar. It doesn't have to be playing cards. (it could be a ring with the players name etched in it, or anything of the sort). A special shop could be set up where a player can take an acceptable item, and pay (fairly expensive) to have a magic portrate painted on it or magic name etched (A high level spell/alchemy may be acceptable also). The player could then give the item to anybody they want. The person would apply the item to teleport to the other person (Note the item should somehow be limited: one use an hour/day, charges, magic mana required, a couple rounds with both characters consentrating to complete the teleport, etc) Also on another note, getting around the big world map shouldn't be too easy. How can I have an epic adventure if I can be anywhere in the world in short time? Just thought I would mention it. Adam _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 12:28:03 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <200310221313.55713.aashenfe@plaind.com> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> <200310221313.55713.aashenfe@plaind.com> Message-ID: <3F96BE23.7030205@laposte.net> > OK I couldn't resist submitting this idea. Has anyone read the "Chronicles > of Amber"? Read the first volume only :) Your idea sounds fun. But high level players can almost already do that, with town portal / word of recall. One makes portal, word of recall's, makes 2nd portal, there you go :) But the idea of having rings & such is nice. One thing: the ring you give to someone should be non transferable, to avoid bad things :) Also rings obviously won't work to teleport to apartments. > Also on another note, getting around the big world map shouldn't be too easy. > How can I have an epic adventure if I can be anywhere in the world in short > time? Well, except right now moving in bigworld is long and unchallenging. So it basically just takes time for nothing. (except prevent from going fast to certain places, all right) I'd sure love some way to sometimes go fast to certain places. > Adam Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 12:09:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Base stats In-Reply-To: <3F969978.1040400@laposte.net> Message-ID: I thought I just mention this: I think it's weird that the higher your stat is, the greater bonuses it provides. This may or may not be a good idea, it depends on the available equipment. I just think devs do _not_ think about this fact, while cerating a new item. In such cases (items created independently) it's not a good idea. (Hard to achieve balance beetween races (take fireborn, for example) and beetween low lvl and high lvl chars.) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 22 13:19:20 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F96BE23.7030205@laposte.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <200310221313.55713.aashenfe@plaind.com> <3F96BE23.7030205@laposte.net> Message-ID: <200310221419.20078.aashenfe@plaind.com> On Wed October 22 2003 1:28 pm, Nicolas Weeger wrote: > > OK I couldn't resist submitting this idea. Has anyone read the > > "Chronicles of Amber"? > > > > Read the first volume only :) > Your idea sounds fun. But high level players can almost already do that, > with town portal / word of recall. One makes portal, word of recall's, > makes 2nd portal, there you go :) > But the idea of having rings & such is nice. One thing: the ring you give > to someone should be non transferable, to avoid bad things :) What Kind of bad things? For instance player killers stalking people. Maybe this kind of teleport should require both players actions. For instance player Foo applies player Bar's ring. Player Bar is notified, and can see players Foo's "Etherial hand". By applying the hand, he pulls the player through. That way Bar gets to chose if he pulls the person through. Also he might be able to see the ring. That way, he could pickup the ring, and essentialy take the ring back from a person who stole it. Only when that person tries to teleport to them. This way a player could leave a ring som for another person to get in touch with them. > I'd sure love some way to sometimes go fast to certain places. That would be nice, but quick transportation should cost money. High level characters always have tons of money anyway. > > > Adam > > Nicolas 'Ryo' > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 23 13:39:10 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Base stats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Palfy Tamas wrote: > > I thought I just mention this: > I think it's weird that the higher your stat is, the greater bonuses it > provides. Weird, how? Comparing someone with a Strength of 3 vs a Strength of 30 they both should have the same damage bonus, weight/carrying capacity, et al. Or, do you mean the bonuses obtained when improving an ability score is too great. For instance the damage bonus for Str 29 is 10 while for Str 30 is 15. > This may or may not be a good idea, it depends on the available > equipment. I just think devs do _not_ think about this fact, while > cerating a new item. In such cases (items created independently) it's > not a good idea. Can you provide an example of this? -- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 23 22:25:07 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Base stats In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Rick Tanner wrote: > > On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Palfy Tamas wrote: > > > > I thought I just mention this: > > I think it's weird that the higher your stat is, the greater bonuses it > > provides. > > Weird, how? I mean, improving str from 29 to 30 gives far more bonuses than from 25 to 26. (Like at 28 str, plus one str (28->29) gives +10 damage, at 29 str, plus one str (29->30) gives +15 damage. (Numbers may not be exact...) The function is exponential. The higher the stat is, the greater the bonus one plus of that stat gives. It forces players into some "the more I have the more I want" mood. (Ok, my mistake, my phrasing was pretty bad.) > > Comparing someone with a Strength of 3 vs a Strength of 30 they both > should have the same damage bonus, weight/carrying capacity, et al. > > Or, do you mean the bonuses obtained when improving an ability score is > too great. For instance the damage bonus for Str 29 is 10 while for Str 30 > is 15. > > > This may or may not be a good idea, it depends on the available > > equipment. I just think devs do _not_ think about this fact, while > > cerating a new item. In such cases (items created independently) it's > > not a good idea. > > Can you provide an example of this? > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 01:52:59 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <200310221419.20078.aashenfe@plaind.com> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <200310221313.55713.aashenfe@plaind.com> <3F96BE23.7030205@laposte.net> <200310221419.20078.aashenfe@plaind.com> Message-ID: <3F98CC4B.7070904@sonic.net> Just a note - I personally think the ability of players to be able to teleport should be restricted. This issue of insecureness of maps already mentioned (lake county is on the bigworld world maps, and I think pupland is or was talked about being put there). It is impossible (IMO) to have any form of reasonable checking without various map changes to know if a player should be able to teleport to one of those spaces by providing coordinates. One could state that there is already some limited ability to do this with town portal. But it's just that - limited. A player might be able to set up something to teleport to an area to bypass some various checks (however, he would have had to gotten there once). But the fact that the player is only allowed to have one set of town portals probably reduces this - do you really want to use that one town portal connection to wait for the map it leads to to reset? Or might you want to re-cast it someplace where you're currently adventuring? If you're allowed a large set of such connections, then I forsee problems of a player having a dozen such spots set about. I'd also note that one of the justications behind the bigworld maps was to space things out a bit. Eg, a journey from scorn to navar city should be non trivial. If we just add teleporters all over the place, what's really the point then. One could take this further (to a level of absurbity) - why not just have a city with all the dungeons right in it so you never have to go anywhere at all? That said, some things could perhaps be improved - add some paths that lead to major dungeons, make some other things a little more visible. But IMO some of hte game probably should be adventuring, and if you just make everything easy to find, what is really the point? And for those dungeons a little farther out - it is obviously up to the player to decide if they want to head to them or not. But even as is, it still doesn't take more than a minute or two of real time to go from scorn to navar city, which is basically accross the continent. So nothing on the big world is really ever that far away. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 02:02:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch submission: 'tell' improvement In-Reply-To: <3F941A60.2000304@laposte.net> References: <3F941A60.2000304@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F98CE86.1@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > Here's a small patch to tweak the 'tell' command. > You can now enter the first letters of the name only, provided there is > only one matching player. > IE if you have 'playerA', 'playerB' and 'human', you can do 'tell h hello'. > But you'll have to use 'tell playera hello' since 'player' can be 2 > players. > > Note: not case sensitive. > > If I don't have any negative feedback, I'll commit it in 1 or 2 weeks... Few notes: If you post diffs, please make context diffs (diff -c) as they are more readable when it comes to trying to find changes. Note 2: strnicmp does not appear to be a standard library function, so such a change does not appear that it will work on any unix type systems. > > Nicolas 'Ryo' > > (note: patch directly in mail, since it isn't that big) > > > Index: include/sproto.h > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/include/sproto.h,v > retrieving revision 1.96 > diff -r1.96 sproto.h > 476c476,477 > < player *find_player(char *plname); > --- > > player *find_player(char *plname); > > player* find_player_partial_name( char* plname ); > Index: server/c_chat.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/server/c_chat.c,v > retrieving revision 1.15 > diff -r1.15 c_chat.c > 149,152c149,153 > < > < for(pl=first_player;pl!=NULL;pl=pl->next) > < if(strncasecmp(pl->ob->name,name,MAX_NAME)==0) { > < > --- > > > > pl = find_player_partial_name( name ); > > > > if ( pl ) > > { > 155c156 > < "You tell %s: %s", name, msg); > --- > > "You tell %s: %s", pl->ob->name, msg); > 159,161c160,163 > < return 1; > < } > < new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,op,"No such player."); > --- > > return 1; > > } > > > > new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,op,"No such player or ambiguous name."); > Index: server/player.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/server/player.c,v > retrieving revision 1.137 > diff -r1.137 player.c > 52c52,73 > < } > --- > > } > > > > player* find_player_partial_name( char* plname ) > > { > > player* pl; > > player* found = NULL; > > size_t namelen = strlen( plname ); > > for ( pl = first_player; pl != NULL; pl = pl->next ) > > { > > if ( strlen( pl->ob->name ) < namelen ) > > continue; > > > > if ( !strnicmp( pl->ob->name, plname, namelen ) ) > > { > > if ( found ) > > return NULL; > > > > found = pl; > > } > > } > > return found; > > } > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 02:10:06 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F98D04E.9090309@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > I finally fixed python plugins to work under Windows. > I'll submit patches when i'm home, assuming my provider works & i can > diff files :) > > I got a remark concerning the python plugin, though, at least as it is > used in the casino scripts (Goths tavern, iirc): > > When you gain gold, the gold is created on the machine's spot. > But what happens is that first gold is created, then # of coins is set. > Which leads to incorrect behaviour: if there is gold on the spot > already, the newly created 1 gold coin is merged with it, then the count > is fixed. > So you can lose gold!! > > The sequence is the following: > * create 1 gold coin from plugin > * server code creates it, and merges it with gold already on floor > * plugin sets # of gold coin to gained value => incorrect count > > I don't know the 'right' way to fix: either server must not merge > newly-created items, or must not insert'em in the map already. > Or python plugin must take into account already existing gold > (so something like # gold coin = current # gold + gain - 1 [1 coming > from the object creation]). It'd be really help to post a plugin snippet that exhibits the bug. IF what your doing is doing is calling the function to create the object, and then the function to set the nrof, then the behaviour above is correct. The setquantity has no idea of past object state, so thus doesn't know if it should set the value absolute or add to it. The correct method then in the script would be to call getquanity on the item, and then add onto that. I'm also not 100% sure why, but it seems the setquantity function has an upper boun of 100,000. This seems quite large, but isn't quite as big if you start thinking silver coins (1000 pp worth basically). Since nrof is actually a 32 bit value, the practical limit (in terms of code) is actually much higher. > > Just my 2 gold coins, err, cents of euro :) > > Nicolas 'Ryo' > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 02:13:32 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F98CC4B.7070904@sonic.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <200310221313.55713.aashenfe@plaind.com> <3F96BE23.7030205@laposte.net> <200310221419.20078.aashenfe@plaind.com> <3F98CC4B.7070904@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F98D11C.3030408@laposte.net> > I'd also note that one of the justications behind the bigworld maps was > to space things out a bit. Eg, a journey from scorn to navar city should > be non trivial. If we just add teleporters all over the place, what's > really the point then. One could take this further (to a level of > absurbity) - why not just have a city with all the dungeons right in it > so you never have to go anywhere at all? I don't mind spacing things, but traveling right now is boring... needs more maps, i guess :) Or random encounters, stuff like that. > And for those dungeons a little farther out - it is obviously up to the > player to decide if they want to head to them or not. But even as is, > it still doesn't take more than a minute or two of real time to go from > scorn to navar city, which is basically accross the continent. So > nothing on the big world is really ever that far away. Sorry, but for me Scorn to Navar takes quite some time. Blame my not-too-fast computer, but following the road (there are some places you must use it, iirc, since there are uncrossable mountains) is just a pain. I still didn't go to Navar, but went to DragonNest by following the road till world_111_116 then going south. Going to that 111x116 map already takes 5 mins, and i'm not sure how far Navar is after that (though if that's coherent with smallworld maps, it should be 5 more mins at least). Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 02:17:03 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch submission: 'tell' improvement In-Reply-To: <3F98CE86.1@sonic.net> References: <3F941A60.2000304@laposte.net> <3F98CE86.1@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F98D1EF.5040802@laposte.net> > Few notes: If you post diffs, please make context diffs (diff -c) as > they are more readable when it comes to trying to find changes. Ha sorry, forgot again my CVS tool didn't use that option by default.... > Note 2: strnicmp does not appear to be a standard library function, so > such a change does not appear that it will work on any unix type systems. Guess the function I was searching is strncasecmp (which seems to be ansi) I'll fix the patch & resubmit it, then Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 02:23:55 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <3F98D04E.9090309@sonic.net> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> <3F98D04E.9090309@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F98D38B.4030806@laposte.net> > It'd be really help to post a plugin snippet that exhibits the bug. Actually it's easy to show (my apologies for not giving enough details once again *writes down 'give enough details next time'). Start server, goto Goth's tavern, to the casino machine. Drop some gold coins, and play until you get some gain. Notice the gold coin #, you'll see it's incoherent (you drop 50 coins, play machine, gain some, and there are only 5 on the ground, for instance) > IF what your doing is doing is calling the function to create the > object, and then the function to set the nrof, then the behaviour above > is correct. The setquantity has no idea of past object state, so thus > doesn't know if it should set the value absolute or add to it. > > The correct method then in the script would be to call getquanity on > the item, and then add onto that. I think the bug is that createobject, as used in the script, is assumed to return a newly created object with nrof == 1. Thus using setquantity is ok. Which works most of the time, but not when there is already some objects like the one being created (they get merged, thus nrof != 1) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 03:38:32 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:22 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F98CC4B.7070904@sonic.net>; from Mark Wedel on Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 11:52:59PM -0700 References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <200310221313.55713.aashenfe@plaind.com> <3F96BE23.7030205@laposte.net> <200310221419.20078.aashenfe@plaind.com> <3F98CC4B.7070904@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031024103832.C11057@diegeekdie.com> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 11:52:59PM -0700, Mark Wedel wrote: > That said, some things could perhaps be improved - add some paths that lead to > major dungeons, make some other things a little more visible. But IMO some of > hte game probably should be adventuring, and if you just make everything easy to > find, what is really the point? Most people play games to enjoy themselves. To walk from A to B can be quite fun the first time and perhaps the second time. But the third time? The 30th time? With a burdened, weak and slow character like newbies often have? If there were enough maps so one would only have to go through each map once until the game is "over", then there would not be any need for shortcuts like teleporters, but until then, they are needed to make the game fun to play for most people. I think a better way would be to have some "teleport destination" objects. They are put in the maps by the map designers and when a player has found it, he can perform something (sacrifice something perhaps?) to "memorise the destination" together with a name he invents for himself. Some destinations could perhaps have small quests that would allow you to memorise it others might just be expensive (sacrifice X diamonds). There would then also be teleporters where you can teleport to the memorised destinations or perhaps all destinations could be used like that? This way, the player has to discover the destination, he has to work some to memorise it and yet he doesn't have to walk all over the world over and over. By letting the map designers (and DMs?) add the destination objects, it can't be used to "cheat". /Sebastian _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 03:36:42 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <20031024103832.C11057@diegeekdie.com> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <200310221313.55713.aashenfe@plaind.com> <3F96BE23.7030205@laposte.net> <200310221419.20078.aashenfe@plaind.com> <3F98CC4B.7070904@sonic.net> <20031024103832.C11057@diegeekdie.com> Message-ID: <3F98E49A.4070808@laposte.net> What you suggest sounds like Diablo II's town portals. Sounds good to me. Prevents teleporting anywhere (unless using town portal), but gives choice to map designers and so on. The sacrifice idea is nice too, but will require some thinking from the map designers :) Nicolas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 08:07:18 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] 'Drop' bug Message-ID: <3F992406.8000507@laposte.net> Hi. There's a bug in item matching when dropping: I had a bunch of wands, some identified, some not. So i did 'drop wand of' to drop the identified ones. Except all were dropped, even the non identified... (they shouldn't imo, but maybe i'm wrong) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 08:37:09 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client & Windows & GTK version Message-ID: <3F992B05.6050102@laposte.net> Hello. I'd like to fix CVS gtk client so that it compiles under Windows too. Unfortunately, for Windows, GTK2 is better, and current client uses GTK1. So should I make a new subfolder, like 'GTK2', to port the client there? Or should the current GTK client be ported to GTK2? Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 09:56:21 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Experience bug, continued Message-ID: <3F993D95.5080006@laposte.net> Just had the infamous experience bug on crossfire.metalforge.net: i was fighting goblins in raffle 1, using first magic bullet (sorcery. btw weird that magic bullet is in both sorcery & evocation, hard to tell which one you are casting). I had just become level 2, and started using poison cloud. When suddenly i became level 110 in sorcery, 109 in clawing, all levels went up... Here's the sequence: become level 2 cast poison cloud fire one at nearest goblin, poison cloud appears suddenly levels start going up Evil bug.... Now my char is too high level -.- I'll try to reproduce it when i have time. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 12:23:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F98CC4B.7070904@sonic.net> Message-ID: Let me add something to this subject. As you were talking about this teleportation thing it seemed to me you think of it completely as a theoretical problem which requires theories for the esolution. Tho most of the thoughts were correct, as a been-almost-everywhere player lemme share my experiences. >From Scorn you can get to almost anywhere via ships and dragons. Serious exceptions: Brest and Navar. (Let's not think about Guild-member players, for there will be a substantial time until everyone from mid-lvl can join one.) So think about hot-spots. Hot-spots are centers of interesting and/or important areas. And... these are the towns... on the small-world maps. Big world maps has the problem as mentioned, someone likes clearing dragon hatchery or demon tower or fire avatar volcano all the time. You should _not_ make steps against things like that, for 1) _most _ of the players _like_ it 2) currently this game is harldy more than hack-and-slash 3) you do all the quests in the world for once, you will be at about 50 lvl overall. You have to do quests many times to get xp and money (!). So there are frequently visited places. Looking at it from the practical side, I'd say Demonology Tower, Dragon Hatchery, Volcano of the Fire God, Warriors' Tower _should_ have some meanings to teleport to from at least Scorn. Plus means of fast traveling to Brest and Navar - and you are all set, good for a start. Dont't forget, big world map is _not_ an interesting wandering site, well, not for the 3rd time. (In my opinion, it's boring _anytime_ I don't want to run on it directly. I think many players share my opinion.) And there are players who don't have time for simple walking. (Mark, really, from Brest to Navar on an avarage day it took me 7 minutes. Some may think, it's not too much, but that some haven't tried it then.) Not all of us are children with unlimited time, we log in to play, we usually do it for a certain task to do (or for chat, but that's another matter), so why harden our life with dead-time road-sight-seeing all the time? The DiabloII-style teleportation system would be good enough (you got somewhere once, you can teleport there anytime). (Something like that happens when you become a scholar of the Kurte in Pupland, and being granted the ability to teleport to Ancient Pupland.) And think about the original reason of the big world maps. It was not for "Let us not players access every place so _fast_! What good is the big world map then?". C'mon, this is wrong! Big world map should have been created for the possibility of great new maps! The great distances are it's _disadvantage_! ("It's a feature, not a bug." C'mon!) Ancient Pupland is the best example for this. For the few high-lvl chars who made it, it was the most often visited place of all. It takes a while to go to Ancient Puplnad, even if you know how to do it - for the first time. Devs realized that, so they have put in a meaning of fast access. Without that, it would have been _awfull_. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 14:51:15 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Experience bug, continued In-Reply-To: <3F993D95.5080006@laposte.net> References: <3F993D95.5080006@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9982B3.5000109@laposte.net> Ok, tried to reproduce that bug on local server, found something weird already: With poison cloud, it happens (not all the time) that kill_object cannot find the correct skill to add exp to. So you get the LOG(llevError,"kill_object - unable to find skill that killed monster\n"); message. Except 'skill' is not set, rather, is NOT initialized, so has a random value. It broke on my comp (access violation), but i have no idea what that can do, maybe give much exp to players, who knows. The used spell is poison cloud, against some orcs / goblins (mad mage tower in scorn) The kill_object was called from process_object. I'll try to find some more things. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 14:55:25 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F9983AD.6010606@sympatico.ca> If you want to go quickly from Scorn to Navar (or from anywhere to anywhere) add an exit on a map to do this - it does not require a complex teleport system. I think there is a free dragon on the pupland palace maps and there are certainly lots of free boats and stuff. You could even add a wagon exit for an overland travel service. I would like to suggest these not be free transports (meaning they are either somewhat hidden, they are tricky to get to, or there is a cost to access them.) If you have a easy and cheap teleport house in every city that takes you to every other city or some such then you devalue the portals in the apartments and guilds and in special locations. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 15:07:25 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F96435B.1070800@laposte.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> <3F96435B.1070800@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F99867D.7030206@sympatico.ca> I know I just sent one of these, but this is an older reply I forgot to finish off in response to an earlier post :). >> The other reason to disallow user supplied coordinates: There are >> some maps, lake county comes immediately to mind, but probably places >> like pup land also, where movement on the map itself is restricted, >> eg, it is part of a quest or something to be able to get to a certain >> space on the map. If the user could supply coordinates, they could >> easily bypass any such checks. > > > I was thinking of teleporting in /world maps only. Are Lake County / > Pupland there now? > But yes, some checking should probably be done... > Lake Country is, there will be more and more of these areas as bigworld is developed (Andreas has blocked off Brest with mountains for example). I don't see allowing the players to choose a map and a coord will ever be feasable because it is too prone to abuse no matter how much checking you do. Further I don't see it as a requirement. It might be hard navigating on bigworld and the journey betweeen places is long - but ther isn't much there yet anyway. If the problem is getting from Scorn to Navar then put a boat on the map that takes you there. There are already potrals in the apartments, in the guilds (Portals would be a big selling point for joining a guild IMHO) and on various maps so adding teleport shops isn't in my list of top choices because it would devaule the existing portals. I'd rather see portals added on a per need basis and hopefully with adventure or at least cost associated (in short some town could certainly habve a teleport shop, but not every town...) Now something like a moongate is different - I was thinking more of having a specific destination portal show up in some places based on certain conditions (time, date), not change it's target, but I guess either is valid. This is an old Ultima 4 idea if I remember right - the moon gates would appear and depending on the phase of the moons you could travel to different places. Heres another semi-related thought: if you used the growth portion of the weather code to have some preset destination portal arches 'grow' at random in certain terrains. On certain dark nights the forest would be subject to portals to elflands for example. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 15:22:05 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F99867D.7030206@sympatico.ca> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> <3F96435B.1070800@laposte.net> <3F99867D.7030206@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1067026925.1646.9.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 16:07, Todd Mitchell wrote: > There are already potrals in the apartments, Yup. I was thinking that the apartment portal system could be revamped a bit. My thought would be to change it to have the apartment have a room that has a gateway to each apartment. When you first enter the room from an apartment, all you see is a key and a door. Every time you buy a new apartment (and buy access to the room of doors, if necessary), you open up one more connection. Ultimately, you would buy all the available apartments, thereby having one giant apartment with exits in many different towns. If everyone agrees that this is a good idea, it would just be a matter of editing the maps to make it work. --PC _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 15:24:07 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <3F98D38B.4030806@laposte.net> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> <3F98D04E.9090309@sonic.net> <3F98D38B.4030806@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F998A67.5010303@sympatico.ca> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> It'd be really help to post a plugin snippet that exhibits the bug. > > > Actually it's easy to show (my apologies for not giving enough details > once again *writes down 'give enough details next time'). > Start server, goto Goth's tavern, to the casino machine. > Drop some gold coins, and play until you get some gain. > Notice the gold coin #, you'll see it's incoherent > (you drop 50 coins, play machine, gain some, and there are only 5 on the > ground, for instance) > >> IF what your doing is doing is calling the function to create the >> object, and then the function to set the nrof, then the behaviour >> above is correct. The setquantity has no idea of past object state, >> so thus doesn't know if it should set the value absolute or add to it. >> >> The correct method then in the script would be to call getquanity on >> the item, and then add onto that. > > > I think the bug is that createobject, as used in the script, is assumed > to return a newly created object with nrof == 1. Thus using setquantity > is ok. > Which works most of the time, but not when there is already some objects > like the one being created (they get merged, thus nrof != 1) > > Nicolas 'Ryo' > The way the objects are being created now is as follows (pretend this is pseudo code even though it is Python :)) object = CFPython.CreateObject(cointype,(x,y)) <-- creates object CFPython.SetQuantity(object, payoff) <-- sets quantity I thought the second time through (you leave the coins on the floor) the new coin object would be seperate until merged (when does this happen?) This code I shamelessly lifted from the IPO scripts before I knew anything about crossfire functions (like I do now ;)). As there has not been much work done with the scritps there may be a better way this should be done. For example I found out the hard way NEVER us CFPython.RemoveObject without checking for the object first. I am trying to write some reusable scripts to show/do common things like add or remove X number of items safely or to call call the server paths so any input on this would be great. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 15:36:34 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <3F998A67.5010303@sympatico.ca> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> <3F98D04E.9090309@sonic.net> <3F98D38B.4030806@laposte.net> <3F998A67.5010303@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3F998D52.1020705@laposte.net> > The way the objects are being created now is as follows (pretend this is > pseudo code even though it is Python :)) > > object = CFPython.CreateObject(cointype,(x,y)) <-- creates object > CFPython.SetQuantity(object, payoff) <-- sets quantity This why it doesn't work: CreateObject creates the object, but ultimately calls insert_ob_in_map which will merge newly created object with existing object on the square... Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 24 15:50:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel-admin@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <3F998D52.1020705@laposte.net> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> <3F98D04E.9090309@sonic.net> <3F98D38B.4030806@laposte.net> <3F998A67.5010303@sympatico.ca> <3F998D52.1020705@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F999097.50805@sympatico.ca> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> The way the objects are being created now is as follows (pretend this >> is pseudo code even though it is Python :)) >> >> object = CFPython.CreateObject(cointype,(x,y)) <-- creates object >> CFPython.SetQuantity(object, payoff) <-- sets quantity > > > This why it doesn't work: CreateObject creates the object, but > ultimately calls insert_ob_in_map which will merge newly created object > with existing object on the square... > Then I should maybe add a reusable function to the object broker script I put in to do something like this when creating objects: object = CFPython.CreateObject(cointype,(x,y)) <-- creates object number = CFPython.GetQuantity(object) <-- gets quantity of objects CFPython.SetQuantity(object, payoff+number) <-- sets quantity _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 02:48:46 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F98CC4B.7070904@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031025074846.56211.qmail@web21305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Wedel wrote: > > I'd also note that one of the justications behind the bigworld maps was > to space things out a bit. Eg, a journey from scorn to navar city should be > non trivial. Further to that, one of the reasons for adding the Large Forest and putting the Ice Castle somewhere in the middle of it was to make the Ice Castle hard to find. http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 02:57:49 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <3F999670.7030708@sympatico.ca> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> <3F98D04E.9090309@sonic.net> <3F98D38B.4030806@laposte.net> <3F998A67.5010303@sympatico.ca> <3F998D52.1020705@laposte.net> <3F999097.50805@sympatico.ca> <3F999670.7030708@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3F9A2CFD.7080906@laposte.net> > object = CFPython.CreateObject(cointype,(x,y)) <-- creates object > number = CFPython.GetQuantity(object) <-- gets quantity of objects > CFPython.SetQuantity(object, (payoff+number)-1) <-- sets quantity yes, you need the -1 since createobject creates an object with nrof == 1 then it gets merged. Nicolas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 03:00:06 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Experience bug, continued In-Reply-To: <3F993D95.5080006@laposte.net> References: <3F993D95.5080006@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9A2D86.8040200@laposte.net> Ok, I traced poisoning, and here are my results: poison cloud create 'poison cloud' artifacts, that hit map squares, and ultimately call 'poison_player' on living creatures. function prototype: void poison_player(object *op, object *hitter, int dam) with op = victim, hitter = hitting object, 'poison cloud' here But poison_player: 1) uses 'poisoning' archetype even though hitter->other_arch is set (to poisoninig, all right). This isn't that an issue, assuming poison_player is not used for other things. 2) does *not* copy the 'skill' field from 'hitter', which contains 'sorcery' in the case of poison cloud. Therefore, if you do the following: * cast some poison cloud * change skill before monsters die Then the result is probably that you'll have experience in the 'wrong' skill... What can happen, too, is that you drop your talisman of sorcery, thus your skill changes to 'nothing', and kill_object will complain BUT use an invalid (uninitialized) skill name... I would guess copying the 'skill' field in 'poison_player' fixes some things. Will require some testing, though. Just my 2 cents Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 06:05:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bargaining skill not working? Message-ID: <20031025110531.GA4401@lolli.home.lan> Hi! As I understood the bargaining skill, you should get the best prices, as if you had maximum charisma. Now my character has charisma 11 and the bargaining skill. But I still see that I get a better price when I wear my ring cha+1, and there is no change if I have readied the bargaining skill or not (which wasn't necessary in the past). So how is the bargaining skill supposed to work, and does it work at all now? Bye Jochen -- Jochen Suckf?ll --- http://www.suckfuell.net/jochen/ --- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 06:58:34 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:23 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client & Windows & GTK version In-Reply-To: <3F992B05.6050102@laposte.net> References: <3F992B05.6050102@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9A656A.7050909@laposte.net> Using Somebdy's code previous GTK version, i successfully built the GTK client under Windows. It requires only minor changes, which are be embedded in #ifdef WIN32 / #endif My main (small) issue is that image.c exists in both gtk/ and common/ Windows doesn't really like that, so I was wondering how to fix: either we can move for instance gtk/image.c to gtk/gtkimage.c, or i can try to find a workaround (which wouldn't be very nice, but well) Apart that, using GTK2 where the code is GTK1 doesn't seem to matter. I'll test my build, tweak it some, and submit patches here. Though since i put all my changes in #ifdef / #endif, committing shouldn't change anything. So if you guys prefer i can commit directly (and take the blame if i broke something :)) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 10:50:13 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client question Message-ID: <3F9A9BB5.2030407@laposte.net> Hello. In GTK client, in gtk/gx11.c, the function void close_container(item *op) is called in response to a server event 'container closed'. But this function does call client_send_apply (look_list.env->tag); meaning the container is yet again applied. Shouldn't that line be removed? On my test server (latest cvs), with this code (grabbed from cvs this morning), having the line prevents correct container behaviour. Removing it fixes right away. Mark fixed partly already, by splitting close_container & close_container_callback (for close button), but it seems to me close_container is still clightly broken. Just my 2 cents (i'm gonna be broke someday !) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 11:49:45 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] God's intervention: broken? Message-ID: <3F9AA9A9.20709@laposte.net> Apparently god intervention, when praying at an altar, is broken. Looking in the code, i found 2 things: * in cast_heal (healing used when god decides to help you), the function will return 1 (success) even if nothing was done. From the code: if (spell->stats.hp) heal += random_roll(spell->stats.hp, 6, op, PREFER_HIGH) + spell->stats.hp; if (tmp->stats.hp >= tmp->stats.maxhp && heal) { new_draw_info(NDI_UNIQUE, 0,tmp, "Your are already fully healed."); } else { /* See how many points we actually heal. Instead of messages * based on type of spell, we instead do messages based * on amount of damage healed. */ if (heal > (tmp->stats.maxhp - tmp->stats.hp)) heal = tmp->stats.maxhp - tmp->stats.hp; tmp->stats.hp += heal; success=1; If the spell is a cure confusion, heal == 0 thus the test doesn't return with 'You are already fully healed'. But the code, after that, just sets success = 1 even if heal is 0. So even if the spell is cure confusion, this function will return 1 (success). This prevents any other god present after that (for Gaea for instance, remove confusion is always given in case of intervention, so no other treasure will be given). So the function should be fixed to correctly not set success = 1 if heal = 0 * second point, the 'spell direct' is checked with if (item->type == SPELL) (gods.c:881) Except archetypes for spelldirect are with a value of SPELLBOOK. So the spell isn't granted. Also, after getting the spell (got one by tweaking stuff), since the type is SPELLBOOK, spells doesn't get displayed in 'cast output, nor can you use it... Those 2 things combined seem to prevent any god-given thingy... Fixing on my local server seems to do the trick Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 13:39:54 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Plugin drop hook error Message-ID: <1067107194.590.4.camel@oberon.Kameria> Whenever I drop an object that has a python script hooked to the drop event I get a segmentaiton fault here: in fix_player (op = 0xbffffaac) at living.c 795 if(!QUERY_FLAG (&op->arch->clone, FLAG_FLYING)) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 03:40:41 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] errno bug in crossfire-client Message-ID: <200310250440.51830.vapier@gentoo.org> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 18:23:05 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Camping (RE: teleportation) In-Reply-To: <1067026925.1646.9.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F99867D.7030206@sympatico.ca> <1067026925.1646.9.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> Message-ID: <200310251923.05525.aashenfe@plaind.com> A comprimise on the teleportation issue might be implementing a camping option for the big map (with the exception of cities). Certain camping gear (bed roll, tents etc) would be needed to set up camp. So if you like running the tower of daemonoly, just camp out nearby. You won't have the convienence of a city, but it saves travel time. The implementation could be simple or complex.. The simplest way, would just be the player applying their bed roll in a suitable location, and it's just like a bed to reality. No trace of the players camp is left A more realistic way would allow a random camp map to be created by applying camping gear. The camp would show up on the world map as a tent icon or such. The camp would exist until all items were removed, and or a certain period of unuse. It would have some of the the advantages of an apartment without the privacy. Camps, unlike apartments would be shared. Camping could have some disadvantages, stolen goods, monster infestation, wild animals, heavy equipment to carry. Tents or huts could be purchased or built to help protect against stolen goods, and monster infestation. Adam _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 20:19:35 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <3F9A2CFD.7080906@laposte.net> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> <3F98D04E.9090309@sonic.net> <3F98D38B.4030806@laposte.net> <3F998A67.5010303@sympatico.ca> <3F998D52.1020705@laposte.net> <3F999097.50805@sympatico.ca> <3F999670.7030708@sympatico.ca> <3F9A2CFD.7080906@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9B2127.4050103@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> object = CFPython.CreateObject(cointype,(x,y)) <-- creates object >> number = CFPython.GetQuantity(object) <-- gets quantity of objects >> CFPython.SetQuantity(object, (payoff+number)-1) <-- sets quantity > > > yes, you need the -1 since createobject creates an object with nrof == 1 > then it gets merged. It really just creates the object from the archetype, and the nrof 1 is inherited from the archetype. There are actually some objects with nrof 0, but these are objects that generally won't merge anyways, so that isn't that big a deal. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 21:01:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Python/casino stuff In-Reply-To: <3F9B2127.4050103@sonic.net> References: <3F93B88B.8010105@laposte.net> <3F98D04E.9090309@sonic.net> <3F98D38B.4030806@laposte.net> <3F998A67.5010303@sympatico.ca> <3F998D52.1020705@laposte.net> <3F999097.50805@sympatico.ca> <3F999670.7030708@sympatico.ca> <3F9A2CFD.7080906@laposte.net> <3F9B2127.4050103@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1067133710.547.13.camel@oberon.Kameria> What I ended up doing was using the CFItemBroker script I had written to increment and decrement items safely since it already did a check for the quantity of an object. It worked out pretty good actually since i really didn't see much use for the 'add' method before but the subtract method was something I used all the time. Now both functions are well used. One other thing Pythonic to mention - the Java editor handles plugin options very nicely now except it doesn't copy the option field when you copy an object which can become annoying if using the fine new custom pickmaps (I am using custom pickmaps all the time now - what a great feature!) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 22:34:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <1067026925.1646.9.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> <3F96435B.1070800@laposte.net> <3F99867D.7030206@sympatico.ca> <1067026925.1646.9.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> Message-ID: <3F9B40B6.5020301@sonic.net> Preston Crow wrote: > On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 16:07, Todd Mitchell wrote: > >>There are already potrals in the apartments, > > > Yup. I was thinking that the apartment portal system could be revamped > a bit. My thought would be to change it to have the apartment have a > room that has a gateway to each apartment. When you first enter the > room from an apartment, all you see is a key and a door. Every time you > buy a new apartment (and buy access to the room of doors, if necessary), > you open up one more connection. Yeah - could be pretty simple - just put each teleporter behind a door that you need to buy a key for. For that matter, a teleporter shop for money is similarly easy - put teleporters behind timed gates. Player drops sum of money that activates timed gate, at which point he walks through. In practice, several players could could contribute and probably all get through the gate before it closes again. Which I wouldn't consider a bad thing. Anyways, back to teleporters on the big world: I don't have a problem with fast transportation to the various cities, for a fee. So you can eliminate the scorn to navar city travel time to near zero if you want to spend xyz platinum. I do have a problem with setting up teleporters that drop you near 'interesting' dungeons. As said, if we're going to do that, why not just put the dungeon right in the city then? I also think that such a change would make it more likely such dungeons are always cleared out. Easier it is to get to, more players that will use it. I don't have as much a problem with teleporters (one way) putting you some spot on the world map. These should just not be tied because there is a dungeon next to it (example could be 'mid continent along the road'. I'm wary of using teleporters extensively simply for reasons others have mentioned - it diminishes the needs for existing teleporters located in guilds and apartments, or the variosu spells for that matter (town portal, dimension door). As for camping, I have a feeling few players would actually have their character camp out waiting for a dungeon. Most likely if you have time to play right, you're not going to want to sit by the dungeon waiting for it to reset. The only real use I could think of that might be something like 'time for bed. But let me put my character next to dungeon xyz, so that when I return tomorrow night, hopefully I can dive right in'. As for moon or time based gates, that is fine by me - I also played whatever ultima it was on. There are of course numerous ways to do that. If I recall ultima correctly, there were two moons. The phase of the first moon would determine if a particular gate was active, and the phase of the second moon would then determine destination. such an idea is interesting. Especially, if as I recall, ultima did something like one destination was only available at a certain moon phase. Such a teleportation system, given the size of hte world, may not be a bad thing. However, under such a system, the gates should still be placed a bit randomly, and not right next to whatever dungeon. This is what I recall ultima also did - the gates were scattered across the world. some were near dungeons or cities, but that in a sense was more by chance - many others were for lack of better term in the middle of no place, but perhaps still closer than any near by city. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 22:39:05 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client & Windows & GTK version In-Reply-To: <3F9A656A.7050909@laposte.net> References: <3F992B05.6050102@laposte.net> <3F9A656A.7050909@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9B41D9.5070804@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Using Somebdy's code previous GTK version, i successfully built the GTK > client under Windows. > It requires only minor changes, which are be embedded in #ifdef WIN32 / > #endif > > My main (small) issue is that image.c exists in both gtk/ and common/ > Windows doesn't really like that, so I was wondering how to fix: either > we can move for instance gtk/image.c to gtk/gtkimage.c, or i can try to > find a workaround (which wouldn't be very nice, but well) I imagine that is really an issue with the build tool or whatever. The server has the same potential issue (common/player.c and server/player.c). So apparantly it is possible to have it that way. However, if it is really a problem to have two files in different directories of the same name, I suppose the one in gtk could be renamed. I'm reluctant to do such changes, because it just seems likely that there could be similar problems in the future (if sdl client is put in there, and it has conflicting names also...). And prefixing everything in each directory with gtk_ or sdl_ seems sort of pointless when the directory itself is called gtk or sdl or whatever. > > Apart that, using GTK2 where the code is GTK1 doesn't seem to matter. Moving to gtk2 probably isn't a bad thing. I'd expect it to be mostly backward compatbile however, so how many changes are we really talking about here? _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 22:50:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] errno bug in crossfire-client In-Reply-To: <200310250440.51830.vapier@gentoo.org> References: <200310250440.51830.vapier@gentoo.org> Message-ID: <3F9B447B.9070900@sonic.net> Mike Frysinger wrote: > with glibc-2.3.2 you no longer can do 'extern int errno' ... > common/client.h and common/newsocket.c still violate this ... Strange, I have glibc-2.3.2 on my systems, and don't have any problem with that code. In any case, I have fixed up the code so it doesn't do any extern int errno declares. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 22:59:09 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Plugin drop hook error In-Reply-To: <1067107194.590.4.camel@oberon.Kameria> References: <1067107194.590.4.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <3F9B468D.5010303@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: > Whenever I drop an object that has a python script hooked to the drop > event I get a segmentaiton fault here: > > in fix_player (op = 0xbffffaac) at living.c 795 > > if(!QUERY_FLAG (&op->arch->clone, FLAG_FLYING)) As is usual in my requests, please provide an example of the broken object, and script as applicable. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 23:09:25 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] God's intervention: broken? In-Reply-To: <3F9AA9A9.20709@laposte.net> References: <3F9AA9A9.20709@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9B48F5.1010009@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Apparently god intervention, when praying at an altar, is broken. > > Looking in the code, i found 2 things: > * in cast_heal (healing used when god decides to help you), the function > will return 1 (success) even if nothing was done. From the code: > > If the spell is a cure confusion, heal == 0 thus the test doesn't return > with 'You are already fully healed'. > But the code, after that, just sets success = 1 even if heal is 0. > So even if the spell is cure confusion, this function will return 1 > (success). I'll fix that. The entire area dealing with curing damage should be encapsulated in a if (heal), becaus otherwise I think you'd also get the message 'your wounds start to close' if you have any damage and cast cure confusion. > > * second point, the 'spell direct' is checked with > if (item->type == SPELL) > (gods.c:881) > > Except archetypes for spelldirect are with a value of SPELLBOOK. > So the spell isn't granted. > Also, after getting the spell (got one by tweaking stuff), since the > type is SPELLBOOK, spells doesn't get displayed in 'cast output, nor can > you use it... The archetypes should be updated so that the type for them is also spell, and not spellbook. That should actually be pretty easy - just replace the god_spelldirect treasures with the spell ones directly - there isn't any need for the spelldirect versions. I'll work on doing that. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sat Oct 25 23:48:03 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client question In-Reply-To: <3F9A9BB5.2030407@laposte.net> References: <3F9A9BB5.2030407@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9B5203.3060808@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > In GTK client, in gtk/gx11.c, the function > void close_container(item *op) > is called in response to a server event 'container closed'. > But this function does call > client_send_apply (look_list.env->tag); > meaning the container is yet again applied. > > Shouldn't that line be removed? > > On my test server (latest cvs), with this code (grabbed from cvs this > morning), having the line prevents correct container behaviour. Removing > it fixes right away. Define 'correct container behaviour'. Or perhaps more accurately, what doesn't work about it? In the close_container function, whether a call is made to client_send_apply depends on your setting. On one setting, it doesn't make the call, which means the container is closed and not active. In the other mode, that apply makes the container closed but active (meaning picked up things would go into the container). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 01:03:01 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:24 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bargaining skill not working? In-Reply-To: <20031025110531.GA4401@lolli.home.lan> References: <20031025110531.GA4401@lolli.home.lan> Message-ID: <3F9B6395.2070301@sonic.net> Jochen Suckfuell wrote: > Hi! > > As I understood the bargaining skill, you should get the best prices, as if > you had maximum charisma. Now my character has charisma 11 and the bargaining > skill. But I still see that I get a better price when I wear my ring cha+1, > and there is no change if I have readied the bargaining skill or not (which > wasn't necessary in the past). > > So how is the bargaining skill supposed to work, and does it work at all now? Bargaining skill gives you a bonus to your charisma. The bonus is (player level + 2) / 3. So at low levels, it doesn't give you much a bonus. However, looking at the code, I notice that it uses find_skill_by_name, which was broken with respect to the new skill code (only in a few areas was that code used - the climbing/woodman also used). I'll fix up that function, so bargaining should at least work. But the charisma bonus varies - if you're level 10, you're only going to get a 4 point boost. Realistic, the bonus should be related to the skill level, and not player level. But to do that, some way to get exp in bargaining is needed. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 01:48:57 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client & Windows & GTK version In-Reply-To: <3F9B41D9.5070804@sonic.net> References: <3F992B05.6050102@laposte.net> <3F9A656A.7050909@laposte.net> <3F9B41D9.5070804@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9B7C69.8060408@laposte.net> > I imagine that is really an issue with the build tool or whatever. The > server has the same potential issue (common/player.c and > server/player.c). So apparantly it is possible to have it that way. Actually I just checked how the server does it, I shouldn't have any issue anymore (didn't think of a specific option, put intermediate files in different directories). So this should be all right :) > Moving to gtk2 probably isn't a bad thing. I'd expect it to be mostly > backward compatbile however, so how many changes are we really talking > about here? I didn't change anything, that's the beauty of the port. I had to tweak some Windows specific things on other parts (metaserver & such), but GTK itself did not raise any single issue. Only need to #define GTK_ENABLE_BROKEN so that GTK_TEXT works (command input line, i think) I'll either send some patches here, or commit directly (changes between #if(n)def WIN32 / #endif, and i compiled under linux yesterday fine) Nicolas 'Ryo' > > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 01:52:54 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] GTK client question In-Reply-To: <3F9B5203.3060808@sonic.net> References: <3F9A9BB5.2030407@laposte.net> <3F9B5203.3060808@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9B7D56.5080106@laposte.net> > In the close_container function, whether a call is made to > client_send_apply depends on your setting. On one setting, it doesn't > make the call, which means the container is closed and not active. In > the other mode, that apply makes the container closed but active > (meaning picked up things would go into the container). Ohhhhh, ok. I didn't know that setting existed, sorry ^_^ Guess it isn't set to what i expected :) _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 11:52:50 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Plugin drop hook error In-Reply-To: <3F9B468D.5010303@sonic.net> References: <1067107194.590.4.camel@oberon.Kameria> <3F9B468D.5010303@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1067190770.548.19.camel@oberon.Kameria> On Sat, 2003-10-25 at 23:59, Mark Wedel wrote: > Todd Mitchell wrote: > > Whenever I drop an object that has a python script hooked to the drop > > event I get a segmentaiton fault here: > > > > in fix_player (op = 0xbffffaac) at living.c 795 > > > > if(!QUERY_FLAG (&op->arch->clone, FLAG_FLYING)) > > As is usual in my requests, please provide an example of the broken object, > and script as applicable. Well any object hooked to 'drop' calling any script will do it. Here is a map and a simple test script. It doesn't matter if you have event options or do anything in the script or not - it is the drop hook itself that is broken as far as I can tell. -------------- next part -------------- arch map name plugintest msg Creator: CF Java Map Editor Date: 10/26/2003 endmsg width 10 height 10 end arch flagstone end arch flagstone y 1 end arch flagstone y 2 end arch flagstone y 3 end arch flagstone y 4 end arch flagstone y 5 end arch flagstone y 6 end arch flagstone y 7 end arch flagstone y 8 end arch flagstone y 9 end arch flagstone x 1 end arch flagstone x 1 y 1 end arch helmet event_drop_plugin Python event_drop /python/droptest.py x 1 y 1 end arch flagstone x 1 y 2 end arch flagstone x 1 y 3 end arch flagstone x 1 y 4 end arch flagstone x 1 y 5 end arch flagstone x 1 y 6 end arch flagstone x 1 y 7 end arch flagstone x 1 y 8 end arch flagstone x 1 y 9 end arch flagstone x 2 end arch flagstone x 2 y 1 end arch flagstone x 2 y 2 end arch flagstone x 2 y 3 end arch flagstone x 2 y 4 end arch flagstone x 2 y 5 end arch flagstone x 2 y 6 end arch flagstone x 2 y 7 end arch flagstone x 2 y 8 end arch flagstone x 2 y 9 end arch flagstone x 3 end arch flagstone x 3 y 1 end arch bolt_silk event_drop_plugin Python event_drop /python/droptest.py event_drop_options foo x 3 y 1 end arch flagstone x 3 y 2 end arch flagstone x 3 y 3 end arch flagstone x 3 y 4 end arch flagstone x 3 y 5 end arch flagstone x 3 y 6 end arch flagstone x 3 y 7 end arch flagstone x 3 y 8 end arch flagstone x 3 y 9 end arch flagstone x 4 end arch flagstone x 4 y 1 end arch flagstone x 4 y 2 end arch flagstone x 4 y 3 end arch flagstone x 4 y 4 end arch flagstone x 4 y 5 end arch flagstone x 4 y 6 end arch flagstone x 4 y 7 end arch flagstone x 4 y 8 end arch flagstone x 4 y 9 end arch flagstone x 5 end arch flagstone x 5 y 1 end arch flagstone x 5 y 2 end arch flagstone x 5 y 3 end arch flagstone x 5 y 4 end arch flagstone x 5 y 5 end arch flagstone x 5 y 6 end arch flagstone x 5 y 7 end arch flagstone x 5 y 8 end arch flagstone x 5 y 9 end arch flagstone x 6 end arch flagstone x 6 y 1 end arch flagstone x 6 y 2 end arch flagstone x 6 y 3 end arch flagstone x 6 y 4 end arch flagstone x 6 y 5 end arch flagstone x 6 y 6 end arch flagstone x 6 y 7 end arch flagstone x 6 y 8 end arch flagstone x 6 y 9 end arch flagstone x 7 end arch flagstone x 7 y 1 end arch flagstone x 7 y 2 end arch flagstone x 7 y 3 end arch flagstone x 7 y 4 end arch flagstone x 7 y 5 end arch flagstone x 7 y 6 end arch flagstone x 7 y 7 end arch flagstone x 7 y 8 end arch flagstone x 7 y 9 end arch flagstone x 8 end arch flagstone x 8 y 1 end arch flagstone x 8 y 2 end arch flagstone x 8 y 3 end arch flagstone x 8 y 4 end arch flagstone x 8 y 5 end arch flagstone x 8 y 6 end arch flagstone x 8 y 7 end arch flagstone x 8 y 8 end arch flagstone x 8 y 9 end arch flagstone x 9 end arch flagstone x 9 y 1 end arch flagstone x 9 y 2 end arch flagstone x 9 y 3 end arch flagstone x 9 y 4 end arch flagstone x 9 y 5 end arch flagstone x 9 y 6 end arch flagstone x 9 y 7 end arch flagstone x 9 y 8 end arch flagstone x 9 y 9 end -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: droptest.py Type: text/x-python Size: 360 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20031026/c2488cf0/droptest.py -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 13:10:14 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch: client display issues In-Reply-To: <3F8B9B70.7080804@sonic.net> References: <20031011224131.GA20847@idefix2.dvlp.in-medias-res.com> <3F8B9B70.7080804@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031026191014.GA27085@idefix2.dvlp.in-medias-res.com> (Sorry for the late reply, I wasn't home for some time.) Mark Wedel wrote: > Andreas Kirschbaum wrote: > > * server.diff: Fixes disappearing multi-square objects when scrolling > > the client view right and/or down. > > Is thie still a problem after the changes I did a week or so ago? I didn't > see any drawing issues after I made that change. So I'm wondering if the > if that patch is still needed. It had been a problem when I sent the patch. In the current CVS the problem is fixed (that is, the patch is not needed anymore.) > One could state 'well, what's the harm if it doesn't break anything more'. > Well, the real issue is that it's just more data being sent down the wire > - it'd be very easy to write a mechanism to just send every bit of data > down the wire, but that isn't bandwidth friendly. So one has to be careful > what changes one makes to such code so that we don't send excessive > amounts of data that we don't need to send. Maybe I miss your point here. The problem that I tried to fix here was that some cells were copied (from invalid coordinates) instead of cleared. (I added the missing check "x+dx >= ns->mapx" (and an unnecessary check "x < 0").) > > * client1.diff: Sometimes objects (especially moving monsters) were not > > cleared properly, resulting in additional "ghost images". > > > > The removed comment is not correct: I think the real problem was the > > patch in "server.diff". > > Actually, I think that is the real problem there. The client having any > idea of knowing what is off the screen is purely wrong - the only valid > off screen data is the bigimages, but that comment doesn't make any > distinction on that. So almost certainly what was happening is that off > the screen the stack may have been something like floor, empty, orc. The > orc disappears while the space is not visible. When that space is then > visible, the client says 'there is a floor on this space', which is > perfectly correct, but with that comment, the data was never cleared, so > that the client thought it should display a floor and orc again, so that > orc remains displayed. > > I know for 100% that the problem was purely client issue - simply put, if > you used an older client, you'd never have the problem. > > So most likely that fix was put in place for one thing, which broke > something else. I agree with this explanation. Therefore my patch reversed the previous (incorrect) fix. (My patch corrects the gtk client only, because in the x11 client this problem had not been "fixed".) I still think this patch fixes a real problem (in the gtk client): You can see the "ghost images" for example in /scorn/misc/beginners: open the bottom gate and do not kill the kobold. Let the kobold follow you to the top of the map. Run south until the kobold disappears from the top of the view. Go (run) back to north: most of the time, the (gtk) client will display two kobolds when it reappears. > > * client2.diff: This patch fixes the problem that multi-square objects > > hide the player. > > I tried that - you basically reversed the order of display. I tried that > to correct some display issues, but found it created other display issues. > I think it related to if you have big objects stacking over each other, > but maybe I tried that reversal before I made the other changes. I was not able to reproduce this problem anymore, so I think this patch is not needed anymore. (But if I understand the code correctly, the x11 and gtk client differ: the x11 client will draw heads, then tails, but the gtk client tails, then heads.) While testing I found another (minor) display issue (in both the gtk and x11 client): A player (or other objects) that is atop the bottom/right corner of the palace in /pup_land/terminal disappears when other squares of the palace are not visible: (P=palace, @=player, _=cobblestones, .=grass, ?=fog) ...._.... ...?_.... ..PPPP_.. ..PPPP_.. __PPP@___ .._____.. ...._.... ...._.... Now the player is visible. When a fog enters the palace (or the player casts holy word), the player disappears: ...._.... ...._.... ..P?PP_.. ..PPPP_.. __PPPP___ .._____.. ...._.... ...._.... Andreas _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 15:51:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Windows installer for server, bigworld & smallworld maps Message-ID: <3F9C41E2.5040306@laposte.net> Hello. Just made an installer for Windows server, and one for bigworld maps, one for small world maps. I uploaded'em to Geocities account. See this forum thread if you interested: http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopic.php?p=1172#1172 I was thinking: could I use SourceForge's 'files' section to let people grab those files? Anyone would object? If no, should I make a new file group, 'Windows'? Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 17:35:32 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] trigger marker Message-ID: <1067211332.548.49.camel@oberon.Kameria> I managed to work through the nutty maze that is connected objects and add a new object called a trigger_maker - which is basically a trigger that only gets moved when triggered. This will be really nice for doing things like passes, traps and alarms and such where the player needs a marker but not in every case. It is especially nice cause trigers are timed to expire. If this is acceptable then I will add it and update the java editor and stuff. I really want to use this soon for granting limited time access to the inns and to the cauldron houses (bakery, tannery...). Basically I just followed the creator code...so please look it over in case I missed something important. -------------- next part -------------- ? .tm_project.cache ? changes.txt ? crossfire.prj ? crossfire.pws Index: common/button.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/common/button.c,v retrieving revision 1.22 diff -u -r1.22 button.c --- common/button.c 7 Oct 2003 07:02:01 -0000 1.22 +++ common/button.c 26 Oct 2003 22:14:06 -0000 @@ -138,6 +138,10 @@ case CREATOR: (*move_creator_func)(tmp); break; + + case TRIGGER_MARKER: + (*move_trigger_marker_func)(tmp); + break; case DUPLICATOR: (*move_duplicator_func)(tmp); Index: common/glue.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/common/glue.c,v retrieving revision 1.11 diff -u -r1.11 glue.c --- common/glue.c 26 Oct 2003 06:56:56 -0000 1.11 +++ common/glue.c 26 Oct 2003 22:14:06 -0000 @@ -50,6 +50,7 @@ type_func_ob move_firewall_func; type_func_ob_int trap_adjust_func; type_func_ob move_creator_func; +type_func_ob move_trigger_marker_func; type_func_ob move_duplicator_func; type_func_ob_ob esrv_send_item_func; type_func_player_int esrv_del_item_func; @@ -91,6 +92,7 @@ move_firewall_func = dummy_function_ob; trap_adjust_func = dummy_function_ob_int; move_creator_func = dummy_function_ob; + move_trigger_marker_func=dummy_function_ob; move_duplicator_func = dummy_function_ob; esrv_send_item_func = dummy_function_ob2; esrv_del_item_func = dummy_function_player_int; @@ -206,6 +208,10 @@ void set_move_creator(type_func_ob addr) { move_creator_func = addr; +} + +void set_move_trigger_marker(type_func_ob addr) { + move_trigger_marker_func = addr; } void set_move_duplicator(type_func_ob addr) { Index: doc/Developers/python =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/doc/Developers/python,v retrieving revision 1.6 diff -u -r1.6 python --- doc/Developers/python 13 Sep 2003 05:01:31 -0000 1.6 +++ doc/Developers/python 26 Oct 2003 22:14:06 -0000 @@ -331,7 +331,7 @@ Tests if "who" can be picked up. Return value: test result as an integer - 0 if and only if false. -InsertObjectInside() +InsertObjectInside( IsInvisible(object who) Tests if the given object is invisible. Return value: test result as an integer - 0 if and only if false. Index: include/define.h =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/include/define.h,v retrieving revision 1.68 diff -u -r1.68 define.h --- include/define.h 13 Sep 2003 05:01:33 -0000 1.68 +++ include/define.h 26 Oct 2003 22:14:07 -0000 @@ -170,7 +170,8 @@ /* which notices the presense of */ /* another object and is triggered */ /* like buttons. */ -/*#define SPEEDBALL 52*/ +#define TRIGGER_MARKER 52 /* inserts an invisible, weightless */ + /* force into a player with a specified string WHEN TRIGGERED. */ #define DEAD_OBJECT 53 #define DRINK 54 #define MARKER 55 /* inserts an invisible, weightless */ @@ -899,4 +900,3 @@ */ /*#define FAST_STRNCAT(buf__,buf2__,size__) {memcpy (buf__,buf2__,size__);buf__+=size__;\ if (size__!=strlen(buf2__)) printf ("Error, bad length for %s\n",buf2__);}*/ - Index: include/funcpoint.h =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/include/funcpoint.h,v retrieving revision 1.10 diff -u -r1.10 funcpoint.h --- include/funcpoint.h 26 Oct 2003 06:56:57 -0000 1.10 +++ include/funcpoint.h 26 Oct 2003 22:14:07 -0000 @@ -72,6 +72,7 @@ extern void (*move_teleporter_func) (object *); extern void (*move_firewall_func) (object *); extern void (*move_creator_func) (object *); +extern void (*move_trigger_marker_func) (object *); extern void (*move_duplicator_func) (object *); extern void (*trap_adjust_func) (object *, int); extern void (*esrv_send_item_func) (object *, object *); Index: include/libproto.h =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/include/libproto.h,v retrieving revision 1.49 diff -u -r1.49 libproto.h --- include/libproto.h 26 Oct 2003 06:56:57 -0000 1.49 +++ include/libproto.h 26 Oct 2003 22:14:07 -0000 @@ -76,6 +76,7 @@ extern void set_move_firewall(type_func_ob addr); extern void set_trap_adjust(type_func_ob_int addr); extern void set_move_creator(type_func_ob addr); +extern void set_move_trigger_marker(type_func_ob addr); extern void set_move_duplicator(type_func_ob addr); extern void set_esrv_send_item(type_func_ob_ob addr); extern void set_esrv_update_item(type_func_int_ob_ob addr); Index: server/init.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/crossfire/crossfire/server/init.c,v retrieving revision 1.52 diff -u -r1.52 init.c --- server/init.c 26 Oct 2003 06:56:57 -0000 1.52 +++ server/init.c 26 Oct 2003 22:14:08 -0000 @@ -932,6 +932,7 @@ set_move_teleporter(move_teleporter); set_move_firewall(move_firewall); set_move_creator(move_creator); + set_move_trigger_marker(move_marker); set_move_duplicator(move_duplicator); set_trap_adjust(trap_adjust); set_esrv_send_item(esrv_send_item); -------------- next part -------------- Object trigger_marker name triggered marker face creator.111 food 32700 slaying put your code here speed 0.5 invisible 1 no_pick 1 type 52 end -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 17:54:13 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] trigger marker In-Reply-To: <1067211332.548.49.camel@oberon.Kameria> References: <1067211332.548.49.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <1067212452.1142.53.camel@oberon.Kameria> On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 18:35, Todd Mitchell wrote: > I managed to work through the nutty maze that is connected objects and > add a new object called a trigger_maker - which is basically a trigger Sorry this should have read - it is a MARKER that runs when triggered > that only gets moved when triggered. This will be really nice for doing > things like passes, traps and alarms and such where the player needs a > marker but not in every case. It is especially nice cause trigers are > timed to expire. If this is acceptable then I will add it and update the > java editor and stuff. I really want to use this soon for granting > limited time access to the inns and to the cauldron houses (bakery, > tannery...). Basically I just followed the creator code...so please look > it over in case I missed something important. > Also there was a tiny and useless change in the patch to the python documentation which I happened to miss and got included in the patch. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 17:08:00 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] trigger marker In-Reply-To: <1067211332.548.49.camel@oberon.Kameria> References: <1067211332.548.49.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <3F9C53D0.1000107@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: > I managed to work through the nutty maze that is connected objects and > add a new object called a trigger_maker - which is basically a trigger > that only gets moved when triggered. This will be really nice for doing > things like passes, traps and alarms and such where the player needs a > marker but not in every case. It is especially nice cause trigers are > timed to expire. If this is acceptable then I will add it and update the > java editor and stuff. I really want to use this soon for granting > limited time access to the inns and to the cauldron houses (bakery, > tannery...). Basically I just followed the creator code...so please look > it over in case I missed something important. I don't see any real issues with it. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 17:15:29 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Windows installer for server, bigworld & smallworld maps In-Reply-To: <3F9C41E2.5040306@laposte.net> References: <3F9C41E2.5040306@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9C5591.7080701@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > Just made an installer for Windows server, and one for bigworld maps, > one for small world maps. > > I uploaded'em to Geocities account. > See this forum thread if you interested: > http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopic.php?p=1172#1172 > > I was thinking: could I use SourceForge's 'files' section to let people > grab those files? Anyone would object? If no, should I make a new file > group, 'Windows'? You can. Does the installer sit with the maps, or something that is seperate? Eg, would you just download the installer, that also includes the maps, or would you download the maps, and then download that installer to make life easier? If the former (installer with maps), there are two concerns I have: 1) It staying up to date on sourceforge (as new map releases are made, who will continue to make new versions of that) 2) actual space for the data. Probably more sourceforge's problem than ours, but I don't know if they may have some policy on amount of space a project can use. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 17:37:07 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Windows installer for server, bigworld & smallworld maps In-Reply-To: <3F9C5591.7080701@sonic.net> References: <3F9C41E2.5040306@laposte.net> <3F9C5591.7080701@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9C5AA3.10400@laposte.net> > You can. Thanks. I guess I make a 'windows' group? > Does the installer sit with the maps, or something that is seperate? > Eg, would you just download the installer, that also includes the maps, > or would you download the maps, and then download that installer to make > life easier? I made server & maps separate. I figured not everyone wanted bigworld maps, and for updating purposes it's easier to split. So there are 3 files: server, bigworld maps, small world maps. > If the former (installer with maps), there are two concerns I have: > 1) It staying up to date on sourceforge (as new map releases are made, > who will continue to make new versions of that) I made the installers with Nullsoft's installer, free software (nsis.sf.net). Currently i made the nsi (script) files by hand, but i'm planning of doing something like a small perl script to take care of that for me (specially for maps). I don't mind maintaining (not every day, of course :)) those releases (since i'll probably just have to run a script to update). And the scripts can be put under CVS too. > 2) actual space for the data. Probably more sourceforge's problem than > ours, but I don't know if they may have some policy on amount of space a > project can use. I have no idea of their policy, but i've seen projects with hundred of MB, i guess CF is small compared to others :). Sizes for installers are: * server, 2.66 MB * smallworld maps, 4.38 MB * bigworld maps, 19.4 MB Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 17:39:11 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Plugin drop hook error In-Reply-To: <1067190770.548.19.camel@oberon.Kameria> References: <1067107194.590.4.camel@oberon.Kameria> <3F9B468D.5010303@sonic.net> <1067190770.548.19.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: <3F9C5B1F.7030405@sonic.net> Todd Mitchell wrote: > On Sat, 2003-10-25 at 23:59, Mark Wedel wrote: > >>Todd Mitchell wrote: >> >>>Whenever I drop an object that has a python script hooked to the drop >>>event I get a segmentaiton fault here: >>> >>>in fix_player (op = 0xbffffaac) at living.c 795 >>> >>>if(!QUERY_FLAG (&op->arch->clone, FLAG_FLYING)) >> >> As is usual in my requests, please provide an example of the broken object, >>and script as applicable. > > > Well any object hooked to 'drop' calling any script will do it. Here is > a map and a simple test script. It doesn't matter if you have event > options or do anything in the script or not - it is the drop hook itself > that is broken as far as I can tell. I think I'll have to defer this one to Gros, as I'm not 100% of the right behaviour. It appears to be an inconsistency in the pointers. in drop_object, we have: CFP.Value[3] = &nrof; but in HandleEvent, we have: StackOther[StackPosition] = (object *)(PParm->Value[3]); So we are basically taking a pointer to nrof and converting it to a object. Needless to say, that doesn't work. I'd guess that nrof should really be put into CFP.Value[5], as that turns into: StackParm1[StackPosition] = *(int *)(PParm->Value[5]); Which would seem to make more sense (nrof is really a parameter), and CFP.Value[3] probably should be set to NULL. It appears that is what the other functions do that set SCRIPT_FIX_ALL. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 17:44:36 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:25 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Exp questions Message-ID: <3F9C5C64.7020404@laposte.net> In living.c:add_player_exp: ADD_EXP(op->perm_exp, (float) exp_to_add * (skill_obj? skill_obj->expmul:1)); but skill_obj->perm_exp += exp_to_add * PERM_EXP_GAIN_RATIO; Isn't there a PERM_EXP_GAIN_RATIO missing in the first line? Also, is there a way for overall experience to be recalculated from other skills? My character is broken due to exp bugs, and currently under fixing (thanks the DMs :)), but overall exp seems to stay the same, even when skills have been fixed to lower levels. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 18:12:20 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Windows installer for server, bigworld & smallworld maps In-Reply-To: <3F9C5AA3.10400@laposte.net> References: <3F9C41E2.5040306@laposte.net> <3F9C5591.7080701@sonic.net> <3F9C5AA3.10400@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9C62E4.8060005@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> You can. > > > Thanks. I guess I make a 'windows' group? yep - probably makes the most sense. > > I made the installers with Nullsoft's installer, free software > (nsis.sf.net). > Currently i made the nsi (script) files by hand, but i'm planning of > doing something like a small perl script to take care of that for me > (specially for maps). > I don't mind maintaining (not every day, of course :)) those releases > (since i'll probably just have to run a script to update). > And the scripts can be put under CVS too. Ideally everything needed for someone to make them should be in CVS, if reasonable. It's nice to know that you'll take care of releases. However, it's always good to have the mechanism in place for other to make such releases if for whatever reason you are unable to make them. As for space, I guess it depends if sourceforge complains. Certainly, some old releases could get cleared out if necessary. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 18:15:58 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Exp questions In-Reply-To: <3F9C5C64.7020404@laposte.net> References: <3F9C5C64.7020404@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9C63BE.6030905@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > In living.c:add_player_exp: > > ADD_EXP(op->perm_exp, (float) exp_to_add * (skill_obj? > skill_obj->expmul:1)); > > but > > skill_obj->perm_exp += exp_to_add * PERM_EXP_GAIN_RATIO; > > Isn't there a PERM_EXP_GAIN_RATIO missing in the first line? Yeah, I think so. > > Also, is there a way for overall experience to be recalculated from > other skills? > My character is broken due to exp bugs, and currently under fixing > (thanks the DMs :)), but overall exp seems to stay the same, even when > skills have been fixed to lower levels. No way to recalculate that. A characters overall exp is no longer tied to the exp in their skills. This fixes a bunch of problems, mostly related to exp loss, but also makes things more flexible (it's reasonable now to make it easy to gain exp in certain non combat skills and not have those skill contribute much to overall level. Eg, you could be level 50 alchemist, but still only level 10 overall or something. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 22:05:23 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Experience bug, continued In-Reply-To: <3F9A2D86.8040200@laposte.net> References: <3F993D95.5080006@laposte.net> <3F9A2D86.8040200@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9C9983.80400@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Then the result is probably that you'll have experience in the 'wrong' > skill... > What can happen, too, is that you drop your talisman of sorcery, thus > your skill changes to 'nothing', and kill_object will complain BUT use > an invalid (uninitialized) skill name... > > I would guess copying the 'skill' field in 'poison_player' fixes some > things. Will require some testing, though. Yep. I'll commit a fix shortly. There are really a few bugs I've fixed here: 1) posion player not setting skill correctly. 2) kill_object not looking closely at the 'skill' object it has gotten - it would use a skill tool object for the actual skill, which isn't correct. I've fixed it so that if we have a skill name but the skill object isn't a skill, go and find the real skill object. 3) calc_skill_exp doing a divide by zero if the passed skill wasn't actually a skill (that is really what resulted in the gain of all the levels).. I've fixed all three. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 22:11:58 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] 'Drop' bug In-Reply-To: <3F992406.8000507@laposte.net> References: <3F992406.8000507@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9C9B0E.4030602@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hi. > > There's a bug in item matching when dropping: > I had a bunch of wands, some identified, some not. > So i did 'drop wand of' to drop the identified ones. > Except all were dropped, even the non identified... > (they shouldn't imo, but maybe i'm wrong) Well, they weren't dropped because the string logic was pulling in additional information on the object the player didn't know (eg, if one as a wand of fireball, and you did a 'drop fireball', that wand wouldn't get dropped because as far as all the code is concerned, it is just a wand). The problem was in that for the strncasecmp(), it was taking the shorter length of either the name or passed in string. So in the case of unidentified objects, the 'wand' would match the start of 'wand of'. I agree with you that that logic is wrong. So I'm going to change it so it only uses the length of the passed in name. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 22:37:47 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch submission: plugin fixes for Win32 In-Reply-To: <3F941BEE.4000101@laposte.net> References: <3F941BEE.4000101@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9CA11B.5020002@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > I finally took the time to fix Python plugin under Windows. > > Basically, I had to wrap fix_player, free and free_object in hooks. > Windows doesn't like if you free memory allocated by the server in the > plugin dll, and vice-versa, thus free and free_object wrappers. > And fix_player uses variables from the server, not initialized in the > plugin DLL (so you find yourself with divide by zero and such...) > > I'll commit in 1 or 2 weeks if no one objects :) I don't see any big issues. But I almost wonder if it would just be easier to link in the plugin at compile time to fix those problems. One request I do have with your changes: Please do whatever is necessary so that unix style inbreaks (^j) are used, at the ^M's do not remain embedded in the commited code. Thanks. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 22:45:44 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] swamp bug In-Reply-To: <20031021012844.6511.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031021012844.6511.qmail@web21301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F9CA2F8.4030007@sonic.net> David Seikel wrote: > --- Todd Mitchell wrote: > >>I find in current CVS a segfault when you sink into the swamp and die. >> >>gdb sez: >>Segmentation fault >> >>find_obj_by_type_subtype (who=0x8146e00, type = 43 subtype = 21) at >>object.c 2456 >> >>2456 if (tmp->type == type && tmp->subtype == subtype) return tmp; > > > I have found (and fixed/posted) a bunch of similar bugs in inv_checkers. > Should I add to my TODO list to track them all down? I never complain about bugs getting fixed. This one, however, was pretty simple (and stupid) bug in the first place. I'll commit a fix for it tonight. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 22:59:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skills bug: god-given resistances disappear In-Reply-To: <20031017203448.0a3baa90.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> References: <3F8ECFF8.50801@laposte.net> <20031017203448.0a3baa90.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> Message-ID: <3F9CA625.1010606@sonic.net> Karla Stenger wrote: > But on the same example another weird thing happened... the rod was never > actually "charged", this are the dumps of the rod and the wand in case they are > worth for something: The dump doesn't do a lot of good. What is really needed is to know where/how those wands/rods were created. It's possible that there is some setup that is resulting in the randomitems for the rod/wand not being called as it should. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 23:03:02 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skills bug: god-given resistances disappear In-Reply-To: References: <3F8ECFF8.50801@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9CA706.3010908@sonic.net> Bernd Edler wrote: > I can switch the god-given aura on and off at will: That bug is fixed and will be committed shortly. The problem being that the god given abilities are put into the praying skill. fix_player would only process a skill if it was applied. Thus, if you switched skills so that praying was no longer applied, you'd lose the god given abilities. I've fixed fix_player so that it always processes praying, even if not equipped. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 23:25:36 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] cfclient, fixed parse_game_button_press() In-Reply-To: <20031015202219.GA842@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> References: <20031015202219.GA842@ds217-115-141-205.dedicated.hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <3F9CAC50.9000609@sonic.net> Jochen Suckfuell wrote: > Hi! > > The parse_game_button_press() function in x11/x11.c didn't take the > configured mapsize into account, but calculated the direction relative > to the player position in the default sized map. > Besides this, I cleaned up the code a bit, so I can as well paste the > whole function here instead of a patch: Thanks for the patch. but it made more sense to me just to copy the logic from the gtk version - they were both originally derived from the same code, and keeping them similar means that if additional changes in that area come in the future, easier to update both of them again. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 23:34:13 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skill behaviour: 'old' is better! In-Reply-To: <3F8DA3FF.7060300@laposte.net> References: <3F8DA3FF.7060300@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9CAE55.7090003@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Just noticed, with the new skill system: > if you 'invoke' a spell, it gets readied as range spell... > That's pretty annoying for spells like healing, which typically you only > want to cast once, then go on using what you used before... > On old skill system that behaviour didn't exist, think it'd be possible > to get that back? > IE invoke doesn't change range / readied spell... Yep - I'll fix that up. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Sun Oct 26 23:37:04 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skill behaviour: 'old' is better! In-Reply-To: <1066247853.945.3.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> References: <3F8DA3FF.7060300@laposte.net> <1066247853.945.3.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> Message-ID: <3F9CAF00.7030206@sonic.net> Preston Crow wrote: > > While we're at it, I would really like to have some way to use a skill > once without changing the range attack. I don't know if use_skill > should be changed to not adjust the range attack (only ready_skill). If > there's good reason not to have use_skill work that way, then there > should be a use_skill_once command (or something like that). The new code already does this. You can search all you want, for example, and it doesn't change your range_skill. Likewise, if you do any of the use_skill with the item identification ones. This was much more a problem in the old system, where it needed the range value to be set so it could properly award exp. > Oh, and I think invoke now does change the readied skill to be praying > or wizardry with the old skill system, as well, so this may not be > related to the change. What he was talking about was the skill itself. Eg, do a 'cast bless'. Do a 'invoke fireball'. If you cycle through your ranges, the ready spell would be fireball, where you really want it to be bless. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 00:24:18 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Map building, continued In-Reply-To: <3F8D0611.1090009@laposte.net> References: <3F8D0611.1090009@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9CBA12.8080404@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > A while ago I submitted a patch enabling ingame (partial) map > modification / building, but no one commented on it. > > Is it not an interesting feature? You so busy working on your features > that you don't have time to test stuff? Well, testing other stuff is problematic. Probably the biggest problem arises when someone says 'I have some experimental ' - people get turned off the the experimental/still early work in progress, and think to themselves 'I'll wait for the more polished version to come out'. I'm personally not a big fan of in game map building. Have people use the editor if they want to build maps. I'd almost be more interested in some way for players to upload maps and do sanity checking to make sure they are OK. but there is also a difference between map building and map customization. The former suggests that a player can put most anything on the map - the later suggests they have some limited ability to change an existing map. I don't have quite as much problem with the later. I'm also a bit leery of adding any new large block of code if it isn't really needed. More code leads to more bugs and more code to maintain. But that of course has to be tempered with the usefulness/demand of the feature. > > Is there a CVS branch that'd be 'totally experimental', where this kind > of random stuff could be checked in for testing, but not necessarily > included in the game? There is no such branch. I'm not sure how useful such a branch would be - if too many people used such a branch (on the idea of hey, its experimental, I can check this code in right now) - that would lead to the branch often being out of sync with your code, requiring more work to potentially be able to get your change up to date. Also, there is the problem that if there are several such experimental features in that gate, may be more reluctance for people to use it - feature A may seem interesting and something to try out, but feature B (by perhaps someone different) doesn't, but you're then stuck with both of them to play around with, which could be a detriment (if something is buggy, harder to pinpoint exactly where the problem is). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 00:35:10 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:26 2005 Subject: onefang bug fixes Was: [CF-Devel] Forgotten child In-Reply-To: <20031015064016.76303.qmail@web21302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031015064016.76303.qmail@web21302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F9CBC9E.2040004@sonic.net> David Seikel wrote: > BTW, I wasn't too sure about one of the inv checker bug fixes I submitted. > (This is from memory, I am currently not at my own computer). As far as I > can remember, inv checkers was a recomended way of stopping a particular > race (player race or monster race) from going someplace. In particular, I > used them in the Ice Castle to limit ants to an "ant trail" between the ant > nest and the kitchen. That didn't work, so I fixed inv_checker to get it > to work. Basically, it now checks the arch of the container before > checking the arch of its contents. Container in this case is an ant. It > makes sense that if an inv checker is blocking ants, that it should not > make any difference if you are carrying an ant, or you are an ant, the ant > still gets blocked. If I am wrong and there is some other approved way of > blocking particular critters from certain areas, please let me know. Well, looking at the code currently in CVS, the problem really seems to be that the check_inv bails out if the triggerer is not a player. However, I'm not sure how an inventory checker can be used to control the trail of ants - the inventory checker doesn't limit where they can go, other than being connected to some other object (say a gate or whatever) which limits where they go. I wouldn't really see why the order we are checking would make any difference. And looking at the code right now, it seems to check the player object before checking for matching objects in the inventory. so I'm not really sure what is trying to get fixed here/what is currently broken, aside from perhaps the fact that the player check is still there. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 04:39:07 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bargaining skill not working? In-Reply-To: <3F9B6395.2070301@sonic.net> References: <20031025110531.GA4401@lolli.home.lan> <3F9B6395.2070301@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Mark Wedel wrote: > > Bargaining skill gives you a bonus to your charisma. > > The bonus is (player level + 2) / 3. So at low levels, it doesn't give you > much a bonus. > > Realistic, the bonus should be related to the skill level, and not player > level. But to do that, some way to get exp in bargaining is needed. > IMO, one should only get optimal prices if one has cha=30 AND maxlevel in bargaining. Otherwise, the charisma stat is more irrelevant than need be. now: server/shop.c line 160: if (find_skill(who,SK_BARGAINING)) { charisma += (who->level+2)/3; ... /* Diff is now a float between 0 and 1 */ diff=(cha_bonus[charisma]-1)/(1+cha_bonus[charisma]); /* we need to multiply these by 4.0 to keep buy costs roughly the same * (otherwise, you could buy a potion of charisma for around 400 pp. * Arguable, the costs in the archetypes should be updated to better * reflect values (potion charisma list for 1250 gold) */ if(flag==F_BUY) val=(4.0*(float)val*(1.0+diff)); else if (flag==F_SELL) val=(4.0*(float)val*(1.0-diff)); else val *=4; } Looking at cha_bonus[] i see that diff actually only spans 0.2 - ~0.82. Thus one buys and sells for +/- 20-82%. My suggestion: 1. No bonus on charisma for bargaining. 2. Calculate a bonus for bargaining: 2a. additive: diff += .1 - .2 * SQRT((level(bargaining)+5)/(maxlevel+5)) Thus diff would be between 0.1 and 0.92. 2b. multiplicative: diff2 = .1 - .2 * SQRT((level(bargaining)+5)/(maxlevel+5)) ... if(flag==F_BUY) val=(4.0*(float)val*(1.0+diff)*(1.0+diff2)); else if (flag==F_SELL) val=(4.0*(float)val*(1.0-diff)*(1.0-diff2)); The SQRT would help to generate diminishing returns for higher levels. The actual formula / weighting between cha and bargaining has to be tuned of course. 3. Experience in bargaining: If we actually buy/sell an item, we calculate the actual price for the player and the price for a dummy-player with cha=0 and no bargaining skill. Then exp += abs(price_for_player-price_for_dummy)*somefactor. Thus one would not get exp. for gems. I suggest to set the ratio for overall level to zero. With the 64bit exp. high level players could waste bizzarre amounts of money to level up in bargaining. :) And lazy players (too lazy to bother with +cha equipment) would waste money no matter what level they are. I could start coding right away, but i'd rather wait for some comments/discussion. Bernd Edler _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 02:31:39 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Map building, continued In-Reply-To: <3F9CBA12.8080404@sonic.net> References: <3F8D0611.1090009@laposte.net> <3F9CBA12.8080404@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9CD7EB.30809@laposte.net> > Well, testing other stuff is problematic. > > Probably the biggest problem arises when someone says 'I have some > experimental ' - people get turned off the the experimental/still > early work in progress, and think to themselves 'I'll wait for the more > polished version to come out'. But the other side of the problem is that it's often easier to do experimental stuff, ask others for advice (since they'll always pinpoint what you missed, and make useful suggestions, many times :)), then go on implementing your ideas. Doing first a total development leads to either discussion after, and many changes, or arbitrary commits (like 'this works, so i add it even if you guys don't like it') ok, i'm caricaturing :) > I'm personally not a big fan of in game map building. Have people use > the editor if they want to build maps. I'd almost be more interested in > some way for players to upload maps and do sanity checking to make sure > they are OK. But how can you 'sanity' check automatically? (let's not consider manual review for now). Imagine player using tricks with item builders & such to create items? Also, my point of view is that doing maps in editor is less fun. Building your apartment ingame is much funnier, and also can be made really expensive, so that players need to spent some money ^_- And don't forget you'd have to fire the editor (and so have it, as well as java), make changes, upload each time you wanna adjust something. And many people probably just don't want to take the time to learn how the editor works in the first place. > but there is also a difference between map building and map > customization. The former suggests that a player can put most anything > on the map - the later suggests they have some limited ability to change > an existing map. I don't have quite as much problem with the later. What I did (currently) is maybe more map customization. Yes players can put walls, doors, remove walls, in maps. But this can be totally controlled (use the 'type' field for walls/floors, to check whether you can build or not, restrict to unique maps where only the player can go). And what they can put/remove is totally controlled, using custom items with fixed properties (you can't specifiy what wall archetype to use, and such). So yes, a player could potentially put anything on a map, but that requires someone to make specific archetypes for that first. > I'm also a bit leery of adding any new large block of code if it isn't > really needed. More code leads to more bugs and more code to maintain. > But that of course has to be tempered with the usefulness/demand of the > feature. Hum. In my (humble) opinion, this code isn't indeed needed. But it's something that changes from hack & slash, and I'm pretty sure people would have fun decorating their apartment. > There is no such branch. I'm not sure how useful such a branch would > be - if too many people used such a branch (on the idea of hey, its > experimental, I can check this code in right now) - that would lead to > the branch often being out of sync with your code, requiring more work > to potentially be able to get your change up to date. > > Also, there is the problem that if there are several such experimental > features in that gate, may be more reluctance for people to use it - > feature A may seem interesting and something to try out, but feature B > (by perhaps someone different) doesn't, but you're then stuck with both > of them to play around with, which could be a detriment (if something is > buggy, harder to pinpoint exactly where the problem is). Indeed, that'd be a trouble. Though I wonder how many feel like testing stuff but don't take time to apply patches. I for one have already enough CF trees around so that i don't feel like copying, applying a patch, testing, then trashing (or applying the patch, testing, reverse-applying the patch). 'pushing' patches to cvs gives a better chance of tests. (but please lemme know if i'm wrong :) And this is not a criticsm, just a comment) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 02:35:46 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch submission: plugin fixes for Win32 In-Reply-To: <3F9CA11B.5020002@sonic.net> References: <3F941BEE.4000101@laposte.net> <3F9CA11B.5020002@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9CD8E2.5050002@laposte.net> > I don't see any big issues. But I almost wonder if it would just be > easier to link in the plugin at compile time to fix those problems. You mean, link python plugin instead of loading it at startup? It'd be less flexible, since you couldn't just drop a .so / .dll in the plugins path. Or i'm wrong on what you mean? > One request I do have with your changes: Please do whatever is > necessary so that unix style inbreaks (^j) are used, at the ^M's do not > remain embedded in the commited code. Hum, I thought my cvs client converted newlines at commit. I'll check & recheck settings again, or find a workaround. > Thanks. Thanks to you for taking the time to respond to my numerous mails :) Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 02:40:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Windows installer for server, bigworld & smallworld maps In-Reply-To: <3F9C62E4.8060005@sonic.net> References: <3F9C41E2.5040306@laposte.net> <3F9C5591.7080701@sonic.net> <3F9C5AA3.10400@laposte.net> <3F9C62E4.8060005@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9CD9FE.8090807@laposte.net> >> Thanks. I guess I make a 'windows' group? > > yep - probably makes the most sense. I'll look at that tonite, and upload a few files. Probably will use compile/cvs date rather that 'real' versioning, though . > Ideally everything needed for someone to make them should be in CVS, if > reasonable. It's nice to know that you'll take care of releases. > > However, it's always good to have the mechanism in place for other to > make such releases if for whatever reason you are unable to make them. If no one objects, I'll put everything Windows-related into the 'make_win32' subdir. I guess after that you non-Windows users won't mind on how I organize stuff in there ^_- Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 01:29:38 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F9B40B6.5020301@sonic.net>; from Mark Wedel on Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 08:34:14PM -0700 References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> <3F96435B.1070800@laposte.net> <3F99867D.7030206@sympatico.ca> <1067026925.1646.9.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> <3F9B40B6.5020301@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031027082938.A1467@diegeekdie.com> On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 08:34:14PM -0700, Mark Wedel wrote: > Anyways, back to teleporters on the big world: > > I don't have a problem with fast transportation to the various cities, for a > fee. So you can eliminate the scorn to navar city travel time to near zero if > you want to spend xyz platinum. The problems with fees, as always, is that they matter less and less the more powerful the character becomes, hence they can be viewed as a punishment for low level characters. Those characters that already have to pay for word of recall, those that don't have town portal. For high level characters they are only an annoyance, they have to visit their appartment to fetch some money from the piles. > I do have a problem with setting up teleporters that drop you near > 'interesting' dungeons. As said, if we're going to do that, why not just put > the dungeon right in the city then? There is a fun element with the big map, you got to explore and find things, something that wouldn't happen if all the dungeons are put in the city. It also makes the world slightly more "real". There is also a bad thing with it. Once you've found it, the fun goes away and it leaves you with a boring "lets walk for 5 minutes from A to B". That would of course be fun if something fun would happen along the way, but it doesn't right now. (Adding random encounters would, in my opinion, not make it more fun, only harder for new players and prolonging the journey time for higher level players.). > I also think that such a change would make it more likely such dungeons are > always cleared out. Easier it is to get to, more players that will use it. I play CF to clear out maps. If there were more fun things to do, I would probably do that too, but currently clearing out maps is almost all there is to do (with sideshows such as collecting objects to create a cool weapon/armour, learning new spells or various alchemy, but it takes less than 5% of the game play time). Making it easier to reach more dungeons would of course mean that more dungeons would be cleared out since people wouldn't have to waste their time doing boring things, like walking the same paths over and over. That should be countered with more dungeons, not making it harder to reach them, if one wants players to enjoy the game. Another thing to consider is to rebalance some of the dungeons. The "interesting" dungeons are interesting because they have a high reward/risk factor. Dungeons that are cleared all the time are cleared because they give better rewards compared to the risk compared to other dungeons. Dungeons that are seldom cleared out probably have a too high risk compared to the reward (or it is too annoying to get there, they give too little reward for the journey etc). I'm sure people will add "auto walking" code to the client so one can read email or something while waiting to reach the destination if there is no other way to get to the more popular dungeons. > As for moon or time based gates, that is fine by me - I also played whatever > ultima it was on. There are of course numerous ways to do that. If I recall > ultima correctly, there were two moons. The phase of the first moon would > determine if a particular gate was active, and the phase of the second moon > would then determine destination. As a player, I don't want to end up with some "random" map, I want to get to a map that is suitable to my level or to a map that contains an object I am looking for (a certain spellbook etc). I feel that timed teleporters would be next to useless (well, they would be fun the first few times, just like most things are). If I have to wait a while for the right teleporter to be active, I would rather walk to it from the nearest point I can reach via some other portal. If it happens often enough, I will not even bother looking that that timed teleporter. /Sebastian _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 02:49:19 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:27 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Exp questions In-Reply-To: <3F9C63BE.6030905@sonic.net> References: <3F9C5C64.7020404@laposte.net> <3F9C63BE.6030905@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9CDC0F.9080306@laposte.net> > No way to recalculate that. A characters overall exp is no longer tied > to the exp in their skills. This fixes a bunch of problems, mostly > related to exp loss, but also makes things more flexible (it's > reasonable now to make it easy to gain exp in certain non combat skills > and not have those skill contribute much to overall level. Eg, you > could be level 50 alchemist, but still only level 10 overall or something. Hum, from the code, it seems overall = sum of pondered skills exp (the skill->exp_mul value). Plus exp gained through party when the player doesn't have the skill. My only concern right now is that some chars on crossfire.metalforge.net are broken. I know it's a test server, and that resetting player can be done. But some have already played quite a lot of time, and probably don't feel like restarting their player again. So I was wondering of a way to fix the exp trouble (reminder: some players suddenly gained 2 billion exp in many skills). A DM helped me partially fix my char, resetting skills levels to previous values. But overall exp is still really high, i'm level 110. So i figured a dm-only function to reset overall exp as sum of pondered xp could come in handy. Still requires fixing manually all the skills, though... -.- Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 03:57:58 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Plugin drop hook error In-Reply-To: <3F9C5B1F.7030405@sonic.net> References: <1067107194.590.4.camel@oberon.Kameria> <1067190770.548.19.camel@oberon.Kameria> <3F9C5B1F.7030405@sonic.net> Message-ID: <200310271058.03656.yann.chachkoff@myrealbox.com> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 16:29:28 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F9B40B6.5020301@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Mark Wedel wrote: > Preston Crow wrote: > > On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 16:07, Todd Mitchell wrote: > > > >>There are already potrals in the apartments, > > > > > > Yup. I was thinking that the apartment portal system could be revamped > > a bit. My thought would be to change it to have the apartment have a > > room that has a gateway to each apartment. When you first enter the > > room from an apartment, all you see is a key and a door. Every time you > > buy a new apartment (and buy access to the room of doors, if necessary), > > you open up one more connection. > > Yeah - could be pretty simple - just put each teleporter behind a door that > you need to buy a key for. > > For that matter, a teleporter shop for money is similarly easy - put > teleporters behind timed gates. Player drops sum of money that activates timed > gate, at which point he walks through. > > In practice, several players could could contribute and probably all get > through the gate before it closes again. Which I wouldn't consider a bad thing. > > Anyways, back to teleporters on the big world: > > I don't have a problem with fast transportation to the various cities, for a > fee. So you can eliminate the scorn to navar city travel time to near zero if > you want to spend xyz platinum. > > I do have a problem with setting up teleporters that drop you near > 'interesting' dungeons. As said, if we're going to do that, why not just put > the dungeon right in the city then? Ok, let's _answer_ that question "why not just put the dungeon right in the city then?" ! I think there may be only _one_ acceptable answer and several wrong. The acceptable one is: let's make sure players have to _find_ that dundeon. This can be assured with a DiabloII style teleportation system. One of the others is like "make sure players can't get there so easily all the time". Why? For the first time - I agree. But the second? Third? Why? Besides, placing dungeons right into the town to enable it's access fast and easy is not more crazy than placing the dungeon far away to make it's access fast and slow. > I also think that such a change would make it more likely such dungeons are > always cleared out. Is it (meaning placing dungeons in the middle of nowhere) _really_ a good solution against clearing out? Of course not. Peepo who know their locations will still clear them out, the difference will be only that 5-6 minute spent to get there. Or you think that 5-6 mins will change the _mood_ of the players. Well, as I once said, _that_ would be a mistake, for peepo _do_ like clearing dungeons (so why changing their mood?), second, peepo _need_ to clear out dungeons in order to get xp and treasure. (And cf _is_ a hack-and-slsh game, after all.) > Easier it is to get to, more players that will use it. On the small world maps it was _not_ a problem. I don't think it would be on the big world maps. And still, a one-way DiabloII-like teleport there (or near to it) would not be an easier way than the current one on the small world maps. I do feel this thing is important. One should make a game harder _not_ in a way that takes one's _real-time_almost_for_nothing_. A teleportation system mentioned above would do no more than spare players some time. ( I didn't say you should put such teleporters everywhere. I mentioned hot-spots, aka areas, that are common anyway (meaning almost everyone knows where they are and how to enter). You make a new area, consider this: Is it important to find your way all the time you want to get there? Yes - You do not put a teleporter here. (E.g. Rainbow Island) No - You do put some teleporter there. (E.g. Ancient Pupland!) ) > > I don't have as much a problem with teleporters (one way) putting you some > spot on the world map. These should just not be tied because there is a dungeon > next to it (example could be 'mid continent along the road'. > > I'm wary of using teleporters extensively simply for reasons others have > mentioned - it diminishes the needs for existing teleporters located in guilds > and apartments, or the variosu spells for that matter (town portal, dimension door). > > As for camping, I have a feeling few players would actually have their > character camp out waiting for a dungeon. Most likely if you have time to play > right, you're not going to want to sit by the dungeon waiting for it to reset. > The only real use I could think of that might be something like 'time for bed. > But let me put my character next to dungeon xyz, so that when I return tomorrow > night, hopefully I can dive right in'. > > As for moon or time based gates, that is fine by me - I also played whatever > ultima it was on. There are of course numerous ways to do that. If I recall > ultima correctly, there were two moons. The phase of the first moon would > determine if a particular gate was active, and the phase of the second moon > would then determine destination. > > such an idea is interesting. Especially, if as I recall, ultima did something > like one destination was only available at a certain moon phase. > > Such a teleportation system, given the size of hte world, may not be a bad > thing. However, under such a system, the gates should still be placed a bit > randomly, and not right next to whatever dungeon. This is what I recall ultima > also did - the gates were scattered across the world. some were near dungeons > or cities, but that in a sense was more by chance - many others were for lack of > better term in the middle of no place, but perhaps still closer than any near by > city. > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 20:33:09 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Java editor and elevation. Message-ID: <200310281233.10198.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> First of all, is the Java editor supposed to be in the sourceforge CVS like everything else? If not, where is it supposed to be? Can I make changes to it? (BTW, I am an excellent Java coder.) Does the latest Java editor keep track of elevations properly now? I have tweaked my large forest script to make the forest a little smaller, and to use a slightly different set of arches (treed_hills is new, and appropriate). The result looks good, except for the sparse fern arches, which need some grass under them. There are a few other manual edits I want to do before I commit the large forest, but my current version of the Java editor knows nothing about elevation and it is painfull. The new large forest doesn't encroach on the ring mountain or the roads to the west and south of the forest. The road through the north end of the large forest goes through forest maps anyway (Dark forest is there), and those maps are unchanged. While testing, I noticed that the smoothing code overlays on top of the player sometimes. I'll investigate further and get back to you. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 20:48:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Java editor and elevation. In-Reply-To: <200310281233.10198.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> References: <200310281233.10198.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> Message-ID: <200310281248.31886.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:33 pm, David Seikel wrote: > First of all, is the Java editor supposed to be in the sourceforge CVS like > everything else? If not, where is it supposed to be? Can I make changes > to it? (BTW, I am an excellent Java coder.) Doh! Ignore this paragraph, I found it in the CVS after all. Didn't get any sleep last night B-(. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 22:30:44 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Patch submission: plugin fixes for Win32 In-Reply-To: <3F9CD8E2.5050002@laposte.net> References: <3F941BEE.4000101@laposte.net> <3F9CA11B.5020002@sonic.net> <3F9CD8E2.5050002@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9DF0F4.9060702@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> I don't see any big issues. But I almost wonder if it would just be >> easier to link in the plugin at compile time to fix those problems. > > > You mean, link python plugin instead of loading it at startup? > It'd be less flexible, since you couldn't just drop a .so / .dll in the > plugins path. Or i'm wrong on what you mean? Correct - just link it in instead of dynamic loading it. At current time, there is really no downside. There is only a downside if other plugins are added, and for some reason they can't be linked in at run time. But as I think about it, the plugin code problem looks for what plugins it finds to to know what is available, so that logic all wouldn't work (it'd have to have something to examine what was already linked in for example). So maybe not as easy as I first thought. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 22:36:18 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Exp questions In-Reply-To: <3F9CDC0F.9080306@laposte.net> References: <3F9C5C64.7020404@laposte.net> <3F9C63BE.6030905@sonic.net> <3F9CDC0F.9080306@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9DF242.3020005@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> No way to recalculate that. A characters overall exp is no longer >> tied to the exp in their skills. This fixes a bunch of problems, >> mostly related to exp loss, but also makes things more flexible (it's >> reasonable now to make it easy to gain exp in certain non combat >> skills and not have those skill contribute much to overall level. Eg, >> you could be level 50 alchemist, but still only level 10 overall or >> something. > > > Hum, from the code, it seems overall = sum of pondered skills exp (the > skill->exp_mul value). > Plus exp gained through party when the player doesn't have the skill. Generally the case, but not always. For example, there are caps on the amount of exp/levels (in skills) you can lose by dying. IT is very likely that at some levels, the 20% cap comes into play for some skills, while the 3 level cap comes in for other skills (if you're say level 5 in literacy, and level 50 in one handed weapons). So literacy loses 20%, one handed weapons loses 3 levels. You're overall exp, most likely being higher than level 50, will also incur the 3 level cap. So there is no foolproof way of saying figuring out total exp from skills and vice versa. You can at best get approximations (which could actually be pretty far off - if you have several skills that get hit by the 3 level cap, for example, that would skew things more). > > My only concern right now is that some chars on crossfire.metalforge.net > are broken. I know it's a test server, and that resetting player can be > done. But some have already played quite a lot of time, and probably > don't feel like restarting their player again. So I was wondering of a > way to fix the exp trouble (reminder: some players suddenly gained 2 > billion exp in many skills). > A DM helped me partially fix my char, resetting skills levels to > previous values. But overall exp is still really high, i'm level 110. > > So i figured a dm-only function to reset overall exp as sum of pondered > xp could come in handy. Still requires fixing manually all the skills, > though... -.- Well, only some subset of skills would be broken. The correct fix here would be for the DM, if willing, to go adjust everything that is wrong with the player, and not try to find some programatic way to fix it. Programatic ways to fix previous bugs is generally a bad thing - you're left with code that may or may not be needed, is special purpose, etc. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Mon Oct 27 23:47:25 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:28 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <20031027082938.A1467@diegeekdie.com> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> <3F96435B.1070800@laposte.net> <3F99867D.7030206@sympatico.ca> <1067026925.1646.9.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> <3F9B40B6.5020301@sonic.net> <20031027082938.A1467@diegeekdie.com> Message-ID: <3F9E02ED.7080604@sonic.net> Sebastian Andersson wrote: > The problems with fees, as always, is that they matter less and less > the more powerful the character becomes, hence they can be viewed as > a punishment for low level characters. Those characters that already > have to pay for word of recall, those that don't have town portal. > For high level characters they are only an annoyance, they have to > visit their appartment to fetch some money from the piles. But of course, that is true in many other areas of the game. It is really a choise on the player - do they want to spend the money to get their quickly, or save the money and walk there? Right now, players have to make the choice - do they haul out every piece of equipment from the dungeon, even those right in town, and take the time to do so, or do you just grab the better stuff (magic, meets value density, etc). > > There is a fun element with the big map, you got to explore and find things, > something that wouldn't happen if all the dungeons are put in the city. > It also makes the world slightly more "real". There is also a bad thing > with it. Once you've found it, the fun goes away and it leaves you with > a boring "lets walk for 5 minutes from A to B". That would of course > be fun if something fun would happen along the way, but it doesn't right > now. (Adding random encounters would, in my opinion, not make it more > fun, only harder for new players and prolonging the journey time for > higher level players.). Any idea for interesting events? Not really related to this problem directly, but something to keep in mind. I agree that spending all your time walking back and forth wouldn't be interesting. By I typically find for me play that maybe it takes me a few minutes to get to the dungeon. But then I'm spending hours in the dungeon itself. Arguably, the bigger waste of time is waiting for sp/grace/mana to get back up. But same point on that - buy that healing or magic power potion to save time on that - follows same point above - this hurts lower level chraracters who don't really have the money to spend on that. > Making it easier to reach more dungeons would of course mean that more > dungeons would be cleared out since people wouldn't have to waste their > time doing boring things, like walking the same paths over and over. > That should be countered with more dungeons, not making it harder to > reach them, if one wants players to enjoy the game. I agree - more dungeons would be a good thing. Easier said than done however. > > Another thing to consider is to rebalance some of the dungeons. > The "interesting" dungeons are interesting because they have a high > reward/risk factor. Dungeons that are cleared all the time are cleared > because they give better rewards compared to the risk compared to other > dungeons. Dungeons that are seldom cleared out probably have a too > high risk compared to the reward (or it is too annoying to get there, > they give too little reward for the journey etc). True. But hard to get perfect balance. Within the game, balance can differ a lot based on class/race selection (if your class/race has high fire resistance, any dungeon that is largely fire attack against the player is much easier, so they are more likely to go to those). But dungeons that never get cleared out probably have some problem. Given the amount of money and exp currently in the game, I'd be a bit reluctant to give them more treasure - it would seem the problem is that some other dungeons give out too good a reward. > As a player, I don't want to end up with some "random" map, I want > to get to a map that is suitable to my level or to a map that contains > an object I am looking for (a certain spellbook etc). I feel that timed > teleporters would be next to useless (well, they would be fun the first > few times, just like most things are). If I have to wait a while for > the right teleporter to be active, I would rather walk to it from > the nearest point I can reach via some other portal. If it happens > often enough, I will not even bother looking that that timed teleporter. Well, teleporter destinations based on time would be more for game color and whatnot (they shouldn't be random - you should be able to know if moon is XYZ, it will take you wherever). This doesn't fix the general problem of it being a bother to get to some dungeon. As said, one could have a teleporter shop, with way onje teleporters, that put players near (100-150 spaces?) of the dungeon. Sure, low level players still have to make the choice - do they pay, or do they walk? For high level players, this wouldn't eliminate travel time, but would certainly reduce it to a minute or something.. The problem with diablo type teleporters is you need some mechanism to say this is an OK place to teleport to. The current town portal code probably won't work, as most likely your target teleporter will disappear (map reset) over time. That works fine for town portal - can't portal into the treasure chamber. My understanding with diablo is they specially place various checkpoints, which is what you can then teleport to. Crossfire could do the same thing, but if we're going to do that, why not just put teleporters out there (one could arguably doing something like checkpoints right now pretty simply - have the checkpoint object insert a marker into the player object. That marker then lets the player activate a teleporter in town that gets them there). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 28 01:22:09 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <3F9E02ED.7080604@sonic.net> References: <3F93BB91.2080906@laposte.net> <3F941674.2050201@laposte.net> <3F94DC7B.7090501@sonic.net> <3F94DE6F.6090205@laposte.net> <3F962948.30101@sonic.net> <3F96435B.1070800@laposte.net> <3F99867D.7030206@sympatico.ca> <1067026925.1646.9.camel@d5110227.lss.emc.com> <3F9B40B6.5020301@sonic.net> <20031027082938.A1467@diegeekdie.com> <3F9E02ED.7080604@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1067325657.637.158.camel@oberon.Kameria> > The problem with diablo type teleporters is you need some mechanism to say > this is an OK place to teleport to. The current town portal code probably won't > work, as most likely your target teleporter will disappear (map reset) over > time. That works fine for town portal - can't portal into the treasure chamber. > > My understanding with diablo is they specially place various checkpoints, > which is what you can then teleport to. Crossfire could do the same thing, but > if we're going to do that, why not just put teleporters out there (one could > arguably doing something like checkpoints right now pretty simply - have the > checkpoint object insert a marker into the player object. That marker then lets > the player activate a teleporter in town that gets them there). Diablo is a very linear game - there is one main plot and you follow it with minor sidetracking - if you wanted to do a similar thing to the Diablo waypoints in Crossfire then you would need hundreds of them... and a way to manage hundreds of them (remember Diablo 2 only has something like 5-6 waypoints in each of the 4(?) main area levels) What's so wrong with the existing transportation methods? Boats, dragons, guild portals. If there is a real popular location missing it can be added really easily... Remember Bigworld is fairly underdeveloped right now, but there are inns and shops being build out there - hopefully it won't be as necessary to haul yourself back and forth from Scorn all the time. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 28 01:11:57 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Map building, continued In-Reply-To: <3F9CD7EB.30809@laposte.net> References: <3F8D0611.1090009@laposte.net> <3F9CBA12.8080404@sonic.net> <3F9CD7EB.30809@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9E16BD.9060507@sonic.net> > > But how can you 'sanity' check automatically? (let's not consider manual > review for now). Imagine player using tricks with item builders & such > to create items? You have a fairly limited set of objects you let the players put in. Eg, a map can contain any combination of walls and floors with no harm. Some number of objects, if not modified from the arch, are also fine (chairs, tables, etc. In fact, there are very few objects that if they were not modified would be a problem - some number of special weapons and whatnot). Now this may not be to the level people want to customize. But that is the same problem with an in map builder also. > Also, my point of view is that doing maps in editor is less fun. > Building your apartment ingame is much funnier, and also can be made > really expensive, so that players need to spent some money ^_- > And don't forget you'd have to fire the editor (and so have it, as well > as java), make changes, upload each time you wanna adjust something. > And many people probably just don't want to take the time to learn how > the editor works in the first place. I'm dubious that a good, easy to use in game map editor can be done that will do everything players want without opening up other holes. OK - I know that can't happen, because some players have extreme demands. But you really get into problems of what a player want and can you really allow it (I want to make a teleporter to X. I want a cauldron. I want an ....) > > Indeed, that'd be a trouble. > Though I wonder how many feel like testing stuff but don't take time to > apply patches. I for one have already enough CF trees around so that i > don't feel like copying, applying a patch, testing, then trashing (or > applying the patch, testing, reverse-applying the patch). > 'pushing' patches to cvs gives a better chance of tests. > (but please lemme know if i'm wrong :) And this is not a criticsm, just > a comment) Dunno. You'd probably check out the experimental gate that is by itself (eg, not on top of a gate you have made changes). Likewise, if you were making changes, you'd likely start with a stable gate, hoping to get it in there. You don't want to be coding on a moving target. Unless you don't have disk space, probably not too much effort to just checkout whatever revision the patch is based on, and apply that. More likely the bigger problem is time. If I'm working on X, I may not have time to look at someones proposed patch for Y. That's probably the biggest issue. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 28 01:37:20 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Bargaining skill not working? In-Reply-To: References: <20031025110531.GA4401@lolli.home.lan> <3F9B6395.2070301@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9E1CB0.7090600@sonic.net> Bernd Edler wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Mark Wedel wrote: > >> Bargaining skill gives you a bonus to your charisma. >> >> The bonus is (player level + 2) / 3. So at low levels, it doesn't give you >>much a bonus. >> >> Realistic, the bonus should be related to the skill level, and not player >>level. But to do that, some way to get exp in bargaining is needed. >> > > > IMO, one should only get optimal prices if one has cha=30 AND maxlevel in > bargaining. > Otherwise, the charisma stat is more irrelevant than need be. Yep. OTOH, since you only need charisma in limited circumstances, it is mostly useless anyway - you go to buy/sell some items, and not apply all your charisma enchancing items. > My suggestion: > > 1. No bonus on charisma for bargaining. reasonable. > > 2. Calculate a bonus for bargaining: > > 2a. additive: > > diff += .1 - .2 * SQRT((level(bargaining)+5)/(maxlevel+5)) > > Thus diff would be between 0.1 and 0.92. > > 2b. multiplicative: > > diff2 = .1 - .2 * SQRT((level(bargaining)+5)/(maxlevel+5)) > ... > if(flag==F_BUY) > val=(4.0*(float)val*(1.0+diff)*(1.0+diff2)); > else if (flag==F_SELL) > val=(4.0*(float)val*(1.0-diff)*(1.0-diff2)); > > > The SQRT would help to generate diminishing returns for higher levels. > The actual formula / weighting between cha and bargaining has to be > tuned of course. Seems reasonable (one of those formula). However, you need to make sure that the overall bonus/advantage never gets to a case where you can buy something for less than you can sell it. Otherwise, the economy gets really screwed up. > > 3. Experience in bargaining: > > If we actually buy/sell an item, we calculate the actual price for the > player and the price for a dummy-player with cha=0 and no bargaining > skill. > > Then exp += abs(price_for_player-price_for_dummy)*somefactor. Presumably, that can be simplified to some extent based on just the bonus we are giving to the skill? The one oddity with this is that as player gains exp in the skill, they'd have a higher bonus, and thus get more exp (ignoring the other fact, that as players gain levels, the amount of treasure they haul back would go up in value also). > > Thus one would not get exp. for gems. > > I suggest to set the ratio for overall level to zero. Probably correct. > > With the 64bit exp. high level players could waste bizzarre amounts of > money to level up in bargaining. :) Yep - just buy and sell (repeatedly) the same object. > And lazy players (too lazy to bother with +cha equipment) would waste > money no matter what level they are. > > I could start coding right away, but i'd rather wait for some > comments/discussion. It all seems reasonable to me. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 28 02:15:22 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Map building, continued In-Reply-To: <3F9E16BD.9060507@sonic.net> References: <3F8D0611.1090009@laposte.net> <3F9CBA12.8080404@sonic.net> <3F9CD7EB.30809@laposte.net> <3F9E16BD.9060507@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9E259A.1030402@laposte.net> > I'm dubious that a good, easy to use in game map editor can be done > that will do everything players want without opening up other holes. > > OK - I know that can't happen, because some players have extreme > demands. But you really get into problems of what a player want and can > you really allow it (I want to make a teleporter to X. I want a > cauldron. I want an ....) If I were to include map building, at first i'd only include walls & doors (what i did till now). Doing just that is a good start imo, and could serve as a test whether players want more or not. It of course lets customize much already. And probably all building must be restricted to one's apartment. Teleporters could be done. For instance, buy a teleporter to Navar & put it where you want. Of course only predefined locations. Or why not allow building teleporters between one players's apartments. After that, it just depends on what restrictions we want to impose on players. Cauldron, why not. If the player puts it in a corner, with a door to protect in case of bad fireback (like there is in a guild), i see no issue with that. Of course prices would have to be taken into account. I was thinking of either making it expensive (# platinum) or using rare items, or why not alchemy-made items you couldn't buy - something to give players the will to level in some skills. > More likely the bigger problem is time. If I'm working on X, I may not > have time to look at someones proposed patch for Y. That's probably the > biggest issue. Agreed on that. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 28 02:24:18 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Exp questions In-Reply-To: <3F9DF242.3020005@sonic.net> References: <3F9C5C64.7020404@laposte.net> <3F9C63BE.6030905@sonic.net> <3F9CDC0F.9080306@laposte.net> <3F9DF242.3020005@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9E27B2.40601@laposte.net> > So there is no foolproof way of saying figuring out total exp from > skills and vice versa. You can at best get approximations (which could > actually be pretty far off - if you have several skills that get hit by > the 3 level cap, for example, that would skew things more). Hum ok. BTW, with the 'missing' PERM_EXP_RATIO factor, i think all chars on crossfire.metalforge.net never lose overall experience when dying - just experience in skills. (since perm_exp for overall exp got same exp as overall). Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 28 05:16:51 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Java editor and elevation. References: <200310281233.10198.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> Message-ID: <2523.1067339811@www50.gmx.net> David Seikel wrote: > [...] the Java editor [...] > Can I make changes to it? (BTW, I am an excellent Java coder.) You're welcome to make changes. I would appreciate it if you could write an email about what exactly you're going to do, before committing to CVS. Doesn't apply for minor changes like bugfixes of course. Maybe that's obvious, just wanted to say it. ;-) > Does the latest Java editor keep track of > elevations properly now? Nope. The reason is frankly, I'm not the biggest fan of the elevation concept. Of course you can add support for it. AndreasV -- NEU F?R ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - f?r Fotos, Musik, Dateien... Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS, Multimedia-Gru?, GMX FotoService Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.gmx.net +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f?r Mail, Message, More! +++ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 28 04:55:17 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: <1067325657.637.158.camel@oberon.Kameria> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Todd Mitchell wrote: > > > The problem with diablo type teleporters is you need some mechanism to say > > this is an OK place to teleport to. The current town portal code probably won't > > work, as most likely your target teleporter will disappear (map reset) over > > time. That works fine for town portal - can't portal into the treasure chamber. > > > > My understanding with diablo is they specially place various checkpoints, > > which is what you can then teleport to. Crossfire could do the same thing, but > > if we're going to do that, why not just put teleporters out there (one could > > arguably doing something like checkpoints right now pretty simply - have the > > checkpoint object insert a marker into the player object. That marker then lets > > the player activate a teleporter in town that gets them there). > > Diablo is a very linear game - there is one main plot and you follow it > with minor sidetracking - if you wanted to do a similar thing to the > Diablo waypoints in Crossfire then you would need hundreds of them... D-style means one thing: You have to go to the particular place before being able to teleport there. How many teleporter the big world maps need does not concern this. (Oh yeah, big world map should have hundreds of teleporters, I agree :-D ) (Besides, some base code for that would be useful later on anyway... Well it requires some markers put on players. Dunno if there were any limit of that. There are -at least- two examples in the game already (Ancient Pupland and the Hero of Scorn thing, the latter seems not to be working after a while tho).) I think this type of teleportation would be perfect for experienced players and would force newbies (and pro players in new areas) to do some "gaming" except "hunting rampage". > and a way to manage hundreds of them (remember Diablo 2 only has > something like 5-6 waypoints in each of the 4(?) main area levels) > What's so wrong with the existing transportation methods? Boats, > dragons, guild portals. If there is a real popular location missing it > can be added really easily... Remember Bigworld is fairly > underdeveloped right now, but there are inns and shops being build out > there - hopefully it won't be as necessary to haul yourself back and > forth from Scorn all the time. > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire-devel mailing list > crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel > _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 28 11:47:54 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] On teleportation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F9EABCA.10204@sympatico.ca> > D-style means one thing: You have to go to the particular place before > being able to teleport there. How many teleporter the big world maps need > does not concern this. (Oh yeah, big world map should have hundreds of > teleporters, I agree :-D ) > (Besides, some base code for that would be useful later on anyway... Well > it requires some markers put on players. Dunno if there were any limit of > that. There are -at least- two examples in the game already (Ancient > Pupland and the Hero of Scorn thing, the latter seems not to be working > after a while tho).) > I think this type of teleportation would be perfect for experienced > players and would force newbies (and pro players in new areas) to do some > "gaming" except "hunting rampage". > I think you missed my point - there are only some 20 or so places to go in Diablo, all in rough order building to the final confrontation. You can go anywhere in Crossfire (there is no final confrontation or preferred path) and there are 900 world maps alone (not counting things like pupland and dungeon locations). When you step onto a Diablo waypoint you can choose where you are to go from a little list of places you've been on that level - how would you usefully do this in Crossfire when - a) there is not order of adventure, b) there are literally hundreds of destinations (many currently empty I admit - but potential) Town portal lets you set up a two way portal now so that's covered, it is how to get there in the second place you are wondering about. Well you could join a guild, or learn that in dungeon X is a teleporter to Y, or pay to ride the wagon to Navar, use transportation spells to speed your journey (there's a thought - create some places like the pupland terminal which can only be accessed by a spell or magic device. You could make scads of these from a single archetype by setting slaying field in the object. You could get there by using the spell or device. Make one for the Astral Plane or Gaia's glade or the Shadow Closet, or the Caves of the Elder Dwarves... This would be fine since it would require learning the spell or finding the device... (low levels still loose out but that is how it works usually- they don't get powerdragon mail either) I still see no need for a 'teleport system' however. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Tue Oct 28 23:15:48 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Map building, continued In-Reply-To: <3F9E259A.1030402@laposte.net> References: <3F8D0611.1090009@laposte.net> <3F9CBA12.8080404@sonic.net> <3F9CD7EB.30809@laposte.net> <3F9E16BD.9060507@sonic.net> <3F9E259A.1030402@laposte.net> Message-ID: <3F9F4D04.3040607@sonic.net> Nicolas Weeger wrote: >> I'm dubious that a good, easy to use in game map editor can be done >> that will do everything players want without opening up other holes. >> >> OK - I know that can't happen, because some players have extreme >> demands. But you really get into problems of what a player want and >> can you really allow it (I want to make a teleporter to X. I want a >> cauldron. I want an ....) > > > If I were to include map building, at first i'd only include walls & > doors (what i did till now). Doing just that is a good start imo, and > could serve as a test whether players want more or not. It of course > lets customize much already. And probably all building must be > restricted to one's apartment. yeah. But if you only allow walls & doors, which could easily be checked for uploaded maps, most any map could be safe. You obviously don't want players populating maps where they shouldn't. But one could sell some number of the empty houses for example (let players design their own guilds?) > > Teleporters could be done. For instance, buy a teleporter to Navar & put > it where you want. Of course only predefined locations. Or why not allow > building teleporters between one players's apartments. Yeah - only to predefined locations. Intra apartment teleporters could be done, but would be hard to do just as is (a teleporter to navar city is pretty simple, as the map name and coordinates are well known. To teleport to a players apartment, the map name is now variable.) > > Of course prices would have to be taken into account. I was thinking of > either making it expensive (# platinum) or using rare items, or why not > alchemy-made items you couldn't buy - something to give players the will > to level in some skills. I personally don't like the idea of requiring players to level in skills if they don't want to use it. And from a 'realistic' point, one would say there would be alchemists willing to do the work. Just as in real life, it isn't a requirement to be a mechanic to drive a car - you can pay someone else to be the mechanic. If there was any trueness to the crossfire world, same would be true - if there were a bunch of people that wanted alchemy work done, and alchemist would open up shop and do so. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 29 02:14:29 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Map building, continued In-Reply-To: <3F9F4D04.3040607@sonic.net> References: <3F8D0611.1090009@laposte.net> <3F9CBA12.8080404@sonic.net> <3F9CD7EB.30809@laposte.net> <3F9E16BD.9060507@sonic.net> <3F9E259A.1030402@laposte.net> <3F9F4D04.3040607@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3F9F76E5.5040300@laposte.net> > yeah. But if you only allow walls & doors, which could easily be > checked for uploaded maps, most any map could be safe. > > You obviously don't want players populating maps where they shouldn't. > But one could sell some number of the empty houses for example (let > players design their own guilds?) Even if only walls / doors, i think some players will prefer ingame building. And bottom point is, 'if we/i can do it ingame, why not?' :) I'm ready to do it (already did a good part), but wanted to discuss issues before working more on it. Once again, i agree on the need to control where players can make custom maps (whether that be uploading or inagme building) > Yeah - only to predefined locations. Intra apartment teleporters could > be done, but would be hard to do just as is (a teleporter to navar city > is pretty simple, as the map name and coordinates are well known. To > teleport to a players apartment, the map name is now variable.) True. Maybe by using something like the town portal system: put a teleporter marker in first place, go to 2nd place, will open a permanent portal between the 2 locations - and ensure locations are player's apartment / unique map, only where they can build. > I personally don't like the idea of requiring players to level in > skills if they don't want to use it. > > And from a 'realistic' point, one would say there would be alchemists > willing to do the work. Just as in real life, it isn't a requirement to > be a mechanic to drive a car - you can pay someone else to be the > mechanic. If there was any trueness to the crossfire world, same would > be true - if there were a bunch of people that wanted alchemy work done, > and alchemist would open up shop and do so. Sorry, didn't express myself correctly. I was thinking of objects like wall builder you couldn't buy and would be made by alchemy, but anyone could use - like what you describe. Nicolas 'Ryo' _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 29 16:13:30 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Map building, continued In-Reply-To: <3F9F76E5.5040300@laposte.net> References: <3F8D0611.1090009@laposte.net> <3F9F4D04.3040607@sonic.net> <3F9F76E5.5040300@laposte.net> Message-ID: <200310291713.30170.aashenfe@plaind.com> Maybe a deed object could be developed that allows map building. The deed would have big world coordinates associated with it. The player would have to buy the deed, then travel to the proper bigworld coordinates, then apply it. A new map would be generated, and the holder of the deed would be allowed to build on the new map. The initial map would be based on the terrain type. So the players could sell deeds if they wished. It would be nice if players could build things like inns and stores. With proffits going into a room that the player could pick up. Stores might be difficult because players would have to keep them stocked to make money. The new maps would be transient, unless the map is good enough that the map designers add it to the permanent maps. Just another Idea, Adam _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 29 18:00:54 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Java editor and elevation. In-Reply-To: <2523.1067339811@www50.gmx.net> References: <200310281233.10198.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> <2523.1067339811@www50.gmx.net> Message-ID: <200310301000.54849.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:16 pm, Andreas Vogl wrote: > David Seikel wrote: > > [...] the Java editor [...] > > Can I make changes to it? (BTW, I am an excellent Java coder.) > > You're welcome to make changes. Thanks. > I would appreciate it if you could write an email about > what exactly you're going to do, before committing to CVS. Following that instruction... > > Does the latest Java editor keep track of > > elevations properly now? > > Nope. The reason is frankly, I'm not the biggest fan of the > elevation concept. Of course you can add support for it. I asked because I was making manual changes to the big world maps and needed elevation support in the editor. Yesterday I wrote really basic elevation support, but I will discuss those changes before committing them. BTW, it works well B-). First of all, all code that needs elevation information reads it from the bottom of the map. This makes sense as elevation is the height above sea level of the ground, not the tree or building on that ground. All the current elevation code I know of does that. My editor changes just make sure that any elevation information already in the map is propagated to the bottom of the map as needed. To quote from my notes, the propagation is as follows - delete bottom - propagate elevation up first. delete other - do nothing. insert bottom - propagate elevation down after. insert other - do nothing. move bottom tile up - propagate elevation down after. move tile to bottom - propagate elevation down after. move other - do nothing. The actual changes I made are as follows - Created ArchObject.setAttributeString() and ArchObject.removeAttribute() to complement the existing getAttributeString() method. Created an ArchObject.propagateElevation() method to do the actual propagation using the above mentioned methods to get, set, and remove elevation attributes as needed. Sprinkled calls to ArchObject.propagateElevation() in appropriate places in CMapModel. Note that elevation is only propagated up or down within a stack of tiles. This means that if you delete all tiles in a particular spot, then add a tile, there is no tile to propagate the elevation from, so elevation needs to be set manually. Best to add a tile first, then delete the old one if you want to keep the old elevation. Naturally, if you are replacing hills with mountains, you need to change the elevation manually anyway... Having made these changes, I then used the editor to make my changes to the big world maps and everything worked smoothly. I will be committing those changed maps sometime today. I will hold off committing my editor changes until I get approval from the list B-). _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 29 19:02:39 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] New skills bug: god-given resistances disappear In-Reply-To: <3F9CA625.1010606@sonic.net> References: <3F8ECFF8.50801@laposte.net> <20031017203448.0a3baa90.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> <3F9CA625.1010606@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20031029220239.1fcbd72d.kstenger@montevideo.com.uy> > > > But on the same example another weird thing happened... the rod was never > > actually "charged", this are the dumps of the rod and the wand in case they > > are worth for something: > > The dump doesn't do a lot of good. What is really needed is to know > where/how > those wands/rods were created. It's possible that there is some setup that is > resulting in the randomitems for the rod/wand not being called as it should. They where all bought in the wands store in lake city, cant remember it's name now, but if i remember well none of them was charged, or maybe one was? couldnt really say by now. -- +-----------------------------+ | Karla M? Stenger S?bat | | Pando . Canelones . Uruguay | | kstenger@montevideo.com.uy | +-----------------------------+ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Wed Oct 29 19:09:24 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:29 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest in big world. Message-ID: <200310301109.25120.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> I have just committed my large forest changes to the big world maps. Suggestions for a proper name are welcome B-). Compared to the graphic I posted earlier, this is a little bit smaller, leaves room near the Brest ring mountains for further expansion as requested, and uses a different set of arches from the last lot (tweaked a bit due to new arches available). It is also not quite as dark as the previous version. Elevations have not changed except in the few cases where I screwed up during manual cleanup. While my ice castle maps are destined for a spot in the forest, they are not included yet (many changes yet to do), nor is the entry point added yet. All comments are welcome. Do we have a method for parts of the big world to be more or less allocated to map developers? For instance, the guy that added the ring mountain would probably get upset if someone added an easy route through them. I would like to grab the north end of the large forest, south of the road from Scorn to Navar, and develop it further. The south end is for those that mentioned they would like to develop things in a large forest. Basically, I want the north end to be elven managed forest, full of elves and related creatures. Worshipers of Lythander are welcome, most others are tolerated. Any objections if I moved the Dark forest to the other side of the road? The Dragon Lord city is fine where it is, they have a history with the elf prince, and I will be linking it into a part of the elf forest at some stage (when I get it all working). As far as I am aware, no other maps are affected. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 30 10:21:42 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest in big world. In-Reply-To: <200310301109.25120.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> References: <200310301109.25120.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> Message-ID: <3FA13A96.4040509@sympatico.ca> David: You did a nice graphic of the bigworld map before - can you easily run another? I would like to see an updated picture with this forest, the ring mountains and the greening/ mountain changes I committed some time ago. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Thu Oct 30 17:47:16 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:30 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest in big world. In-Reply-To: <3FA13A96.4040509@sympatico.ca> References: <200310301109.25120.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> <3FA13A96.4040509@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200310310947.16475.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 02:21 am, Todd Mitchell wrote: > You did a nice graphic of the bigworld map before - can you easily run > another? I would like to see an updated picture with this forest, the > ring mountains and the greening/ mountain changes I committed some time > ago. Your wish is my command B-). If you check my entry in the crossfire DEVELOPERS file, I mention that I will do "visualisations" which means I will work on some nice tools to create this sort of graphics. The one I am sending was created with my modified version of combine.pl (then scaled down with GIMP). One of the modifications is to overlay a grid showing the map borders, I haven't sentthat version of the piccy, but I wil if you ask. Some of you may have seen my weather visualisation code, very handy for debugging the weather code. As for how easy it is, I was updating the picture while I was making my changes, so that I could see the overall picture B-). For you I just needed to take the image I created at the time and scale it down. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: big_world.png Type: image/png Size: 717826 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/crossfire/attachments/20031031/e2c839fc/big_world.png -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 31 03:17:40 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:31 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Java editor and elevation. References: <200310301000.54849.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> Message-ID: <19597.1067591860@www63.gmx.net> in reply to David Seikel: Thank you for explaining your changes. I think you can commit it. Just a note: The reason you didn't find an ArchObject.setAttributeString() or ArchObject.removeAttribute() function is that all data the editor handles in a special way is parsed out of the attribute text and kept in seperate (more convenient) datastructures. Doing this with the height information (e.g. parse it into an int array in CMapModel) would probably have benefits, as you would never loose the data, and also could make special visual views like a "heightmap" without delays from parsing. OTOH, it would require much more work, and among other concerns height would then need a seperate input field somewhere. As said, this is just a suggestion. I don't have a problem with your solution. Andreas > My editor changes just make sure that any elevation information > already in the map is propagated to the bottom of the map as needed. > To quote from my notes, the propagation is as follows - > > delete bottom - propagate elevation up first. > delete other - do nothing. > insert bottom - propagate elevation down after. > insert other - do nothing. > move bottom tile up - propagate elevation down after. > move tile to bottom - propagate elevation down after. > move other - do nothing. > > The actual changes I made are as follows - > > Created ArchObject.setAttributeString() and > ArchObject.removeAttribute() to > complement the existing getAttributeString() method. > > Created an ArchObject.propagateElevation() method to do the > actual propagation using the above mentioned methods to get, set, > and remove elevation attributes as needed. > > Sprinkled calls to ArchObject.propagateElevation() in appropriate > places in CMapModel. > > Note that elevation is only propagated up or down within a stack > of tiles. This means that if you delete all tiles in a particular > spot, then add a tile, there is no tile to propagate the elevation > from, so elevation needs to be set manually. Best to add a tile > first, then delete the old one if you want to keep the old > elevation. Naturally, if you are replacing hills with mountains, > you need to change the elevation manually anyway... > > Having made these changes, I then used the editor to make my > changes to the big world maps and everything worked smoothly. > I will be committing those > > changed maps sometime today. I will hold off committing my editor > changes > > until I get approval from the list B-). > -- NEU F?R ALLE - GMX MediaCenter - f?r Fotos, Musik, Dateien... Fotoalbum, File Sharing, MMS, Multimedia-Gru?, GMX FotoService Jetzt kostenlos anmelden unter http://www.gmx.net +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f?r Mail, Message, More! +++ _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 31 02:06:31 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:31 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Large forest in big world. In-Reply-To: <200310301109.25120.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> References: <200310301109.25120.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> Message-ID: <3FA21807.5040006@sonic.net> David Seikel wrote: > Do we have a method for parts of the big world to be more or less allocated to > map developers? For instance, the guy that added the ring mountain would > probably get upset if someone added an easy route through them. I would like > to grab the north end of the large forest, south of the road from Scorn to > Navar, and develop it further. The south end is for those that mentioned > they would like to develop things in a large forest. Only real method is to post what your intention is and see if anyone screams. Having someone own a portion of the map is problematic - hard to know if they are still active, etc. and plus as a collaborative effort, someone owning some piece isn't really right. That said, people that make maps tend to own them for as long as they are active. But even with that, you sometimes see people making minor bugfixes to others map. But this is why sending out a mail is the best method - if the developer is still around, they'll ask questions and whatnot. If no one responds in a respectable amount of time (1 week?) figure no one is working on it and thus no one would complain. _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel From crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com Fri Oct 31 02:41:37 2003 From: crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com (crossfire-devel@archives.real-time.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 17:55:32 2005 Subject: [CF-Devel] Java editor and image creation. Message-ID: <200310311841.38688.won_fang@yahoo.com.au> As mentioned elsewhere, I want to work on visualisation tools, and other things. I have found the visualisation tools that I have either created or modified to be extremely useful for debugging/tweaking weather and modifying the big world maps. In particular, the big world image helped me to find problems that were not obvious in the editor because they involved the joined edges of the maps. It would have been painfull to spot these problems by jumping into the game and walking around. The big problem with the combine.pl script used to create images of the big world maps is the speed, it can take all day to generate the image. The script writer thought of this and made sure that if you have already created the images, it only processes the maps that have changed for subsequent runs. I have used this script for a while now, and I noticed that one of the big consumers of time during it's processing is the time taken for CFJavaEditor to load the arches. This is only an issue because the editor loads the arches for each map, since combine.pl calls it afresh for each of the 900 maps. So I thought to myself, "Dave, it would be handy to only load the arches once, then create all the images.". I have not started making this modification yet, I will discuss it here first, then start coding after concensus is reached. Basically, I propose folding combine.pl into CFJavaEditor, so that you can generate a single picture of the entire big world from within the editor and it won't waste time by loading in the arches 900 times. The same "only generate image data for maps that have changed since the last time we did this" logic should be included to further save time during editing. Since I try to write generically, it should support generating images of other tiled sets of maps. I would add a new menu item near the "Create image" called "Create tiled image" that would take the current map, follow the tiling until it had a complete idea of what maps made up the entire set, then render them all into one final image. An option to overlay map boundaries would also be useful. Since you can create images from the command line (which is how the combine.pl script works), there should also be a command line option to generate tiled images with or without map boundaries. Yes, I know that the editor is written in Java and the compine script is written in perl. I have programmed in both, and translated from perl to Java before. Anyway, combine.pl is not a very big or complex script. But first, there are some bug fixes I promised to do... _______________________________________________ crossfire-devel mailing list crossfire-devel@lists.real-time.com https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel