[CF-Devel] Archetypes, New maps, Idease?
crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com
crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com
Thu Sep 30 12:37:50 CDT 2004
I run a server (or did untill yesterday with the cvs
update and strange crashes) and I see players making
massive amounts of money quickly via treasure and
weapons etc. In the past CF was a bit diffrent and you
didn't make the fortunes that fast, it was much more
enjoyable and challenging.
I have made the archetypes, they are at
https://cat2.ath.cx/crossfirearch
I hope they help
make the game fun and challenging again.
--- Palfy Tamas <
xenon at csoma.elte.hu
> wrote:
>
>
This bronze thing is sure one great example of a
>
"good-idea-tho-dunno-what's-goin-on-anyway".
>
Low lev. players do not get much money selling pussy
>
nonmagical trash
>
anyway. They simply not worth it. Besides why should
>
one make harder to
>
get money and/or xp, anyway? To make it much more
>
fun? Geez, just say it
>
loud, listen to to it, then think a little...
>
"I'll make it harder, so everyone will love it!"
>
In fact CF is _not_ an easy game, at least not at
>
low-level and
>
middle-high level. (At middle-lvl and at very-high
>
lvl it _is_ easy, but
>
as you can see, there are at least 5 categories of
>
hardness in the game
>
depending on the players lvl. Balancing them all out
>
is almost
>
impossible, and the question emerges: is it really
>
important to be the
>
game everytime equally hard?)
>
It's that simple: Xp--Money--Monster's_hardness
>
That 3 (and nothing more!) what's important in the
>
balance of this game.
>
At low-mid lvl, money _is_ important, tho with some
>
tricks it's not too
>
hard to get enough -- but it has nothing to do with
>
things like iron
>
sword. (The thought that low-lvl players will need
>
only 2 gp for
>
upgrading/replacing their weaponry is --I'm really
>
sooory, I don't want to
>
be too rude-- simply ridiculous. 2 gp? C'mon!)
>
Making more real or making more challanging the game
>
is really honorable.
>
But check it out! The system itself is almost
>
complete. There are weaker
>
and stronger weapons and armours, shileds, spells,
>
etc. And the game
>
isn't too easy either.
>
Once I've played a LOT with this game, and saw
>
almost everything that one
>
could have seen about 6 months ago. And this
>
includes players as well,
>
not only the game itself. Believe me, only one thing
>
really matters in
>
this game. And that's how you can manage yourself in
>
the game. Everything
>
else is secondary. You can get lotsa money? So what?
>
Others give you great
>
magical items? Is that something? If you want to
>
_know_ things about this
>
game, you have to do it yourself. And you'll need
>
all your
>
skills, bravery, ingenuity, cunning and composure to
>
see really
>
interesting things in the game. And these things are
>
meant to be acquired
>
by experience. Noone can give them to you. (Unless
>
there's someone who
>
tells you every possible threat and every solution
>
for all the troubles
>
you might encounter.)
>
But that's one thing you can _never_ influence in
>
_any_ way. I could
>
log in, and make any other player an owner of a
>
_very_ powerfull character
>
by simple telling him things. To prevent that, you
>
would have to pay an
>
unpayable price. (Meaning changing the quests and
>
lotsa things in the game
>
regularly, which would make the whole game entirely
>
unenjoyable.) But
>
believe me, pro players never do things like that.
>
And the other ones... they can get lotsa money with
>
alchemy, get some xp
>
in the TCs, etc., but they won't disturb any
>
balance, that's for sure.
>
That doesn't mean I don't like players whit that
>
playing style, no.
>
There's no problem with it, that's why I'm trying to
>
protect them in a
>
way. They enjoy playing, and that's what really
>
matters!
>
As in any other muds, non-pros and pro-s should be
>
equally important.
>
All I'm saying, I can't see any balancing issues at
>
that lvl.
>
About the TCs, they are simply "dungeons in town",
>
which may seem to be
>
ridiculous, but their only purpose is to grant a
>
fast way to get levels
>
back. (As for me, as far as I know, I still have a
>
lvl 103 char. on
>
metalforge, and have been to the high-lvl TCs once
>
or twice. And that's
>
because I died once or twice as well. The point is,
>
had I died more, I
>
had been there more as well.)
>
And the xp-loss=time-loss for players is just a
>
strong enough penalty.
>
Time is the most precious thing we can have!
>
>
Let me finish with this:
>
(I'm trying to tell you this every time with
>
different words, I hope one
>
day my voice will be heard.)
>
Please, devs, don't think about CF as a game with
>
players! Think about it
>
as players in a game! You have an idea, think about
>
the players, not the
>
game itself.
>
There is a huge difference beetween "This way the
>
game would be much more
>
balanced." and "This way the players would play in a
>
much more balanced
>
game."
>
>
Xenon
>
>
PS.: Forget money already! Really, there's NO
>
problem AT ALL with money
>
in the game!! (Maybe it' better this way, that
>
almost noone concerns
>
about money in CF. At least it's much-much nicer
>
than in the real world.)
>
>
>
>
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Mark Wedel wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I agree that we shouldn't get bogged down on
>
what is a metal or not (although,
>
> bronze is a metal, it just not an element :) or
>
necessarily the realism of
>
> objects, etc.
>
>
>
> I'd note that one possible indication of poor
>
quality of workmanship is for
>
> objects to be -1, -2, etc, but non cursed.
>
>
>
> I'd also note that in my findings, it isn't all
>
the misc non magical items
>
> that are really worth much - its the fact that you
>
collect everything, identify
>
> the stuff that is magical, and find that +1 sword
>
of lythander, or other magical
>
> items that basically covers everything - something
>
like that could be 100 pp.
>
>
>
> Now reducing the value of the objects helps out
>
- that value is basically
>
> determined as a multiplicative effect, so if items
>
are 25% value, what was once
>
> a 100 pp combo is now only a 25 pp combo.
>
>
>
> I do wonder however on some of the potential
>
strangeness - one could seriously
>
> ask why/how would a +1 bronze longsword of
>
lythander get created for example (if
>
> you're going to make a magical item, start with a
>
decent base weapon at least).
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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