[CF-Devel] Archetypes, New maps, Idease?

crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com crossfire-devel at archives.real-time.com
Thu Sep 30 12:37:50 CDT 2004


I run a server (or did untill yesterday with the cvs
update and strange crashes) and I see players making
massive amounts of money quickly via treasure and
weapons etc. In the past CF was a bit diffrent and you
didn't make the fortunes that fast, it was much more
enjoyable and challenging.

I have made the archetypes, they are at
     
     https://cat2.ath.cx/crossfirearch
     
      I hope they help
make the game fun and challenging again.


--- Palfy Tamas <
     
     xenon at csoma.elte.hu
     
     > wrote:

>
     
     
     >
     
      This bronze thing is sure one great example of a
     
     >
     
      "good-idea-tho-dunno-what's-goin-on-anyway".
     
     >
     
      Low lev. players do not get much money selling pussy
     
     >
     
      nonmagical trash
     
     >
     
      anyway. They simply not worth it. Besides why should
     
     >
     
      one make harder to
     
     >
     
      get money and/or xp, anyway? To make it much more
     
     >
     
      fun? Geez, just say it
     
     >
     
      loud, listen to to it, then think a little...
     
     >
     
      "I'll make it harder, so everyone will love it!"
     
     >
     
      In fact CF is _not_ an easy game, at least not at
     
     >
     
      low-level and
     
     >
     
      middle-high level. (At middle-lvl and at very-high
     
     >
     
      lvl it _is_ easy, but
     
     >
     
      as you can see, there are at least 5 categories of
     
     >
     
      hardness in the game
     
     >
     
      depending on the players lvl. Balancing them all out
     
     >
     
      is almost
     
     >
     
      impossible, and the question emerges: is it really
     
     >
     
      important to be the
     
     >
     
      game everytime equally hard?)
     
     >
     
      It's that simple: Xp--Money--Monster's_hardness
     
     >
     
      That 3 (and nothing more!) what's important in the
     
     >
     
      balance of this game.
     
     >
     
      At low-mid lvl, money _is_ important, tho with some
     
     >
     
      tricks it's not too
     
     >
     
      hard to get enough -- but it has nothing to do with
     
     >
     
      things like iron
     
     >
     
      sword. (The thought that low-lvl players will need
     
     >
     
      only 2 gp for
     
     >
     
      upgrading/replacing their weaponry is --I'm really
     
     >
     
      sooory, I don't want to
     
     >
     
      be too rude-- simply ridiculous. 2 gp? C'mon!)
     
     >
     
      Making more real or making more challanging the game
     
     >
     
      is really honorable.
     
     >
     
      But check it out! The system itself is almost
     
     >
     
      complete. There are weaker
     
     >
     
      and stronger weapons and armours, shileds, spells,
     
     >
     
      etc. And the game
     
     >
     
      isn't too easy either.
     
     >
     
      Once I've played a LOT with this game, and saw
     
     >
     
      almost everything that one
     
     >
     
      could have seen about 6 months ago. And this
     
     >
     
      includes players as well,
     
     >
     
      not only the game itself. Believe me, only one thing
     
     >
     
      really matters in
     
     >
     
      this game. And that's how you can manage yourself in
     
     >
     
      the game. Everything
     
     >
     
      else is secondary. You can get lotsa money? So what?
     
     >
     
      Others give you great
     
     >
     
      magical items? Is that something? If you want to
     
     >
     
      _know_ things about this
     
     >
     
      game, you have to do it yourself. And you'll need
     
     >
     
      all your
     
     >
     
      skills, bravery, ingenuity, cunning and composure to
     
     >
     
      see really
     
     >
     
      interesting things in the game. And these things are
     
     >
     
      meant to be acquired
     
     >
     
      by experience. Noone can give them to you. (Unless
     
     >
     
      there's someone who
     
     >
     
      tells you every possible threat and every solution
     
     >
     
      for all the troubles
     
     >
     
      you might encounter.)
     
     >
     
      But that's one thing you can _never_ influence in
     
     >
     
      _any_ way. I could
     
     >
     
      log in, and make any other player an owner of a
     
     >
     
      _very_ powerfull character
     
     >
     
      by simple telling him things. To prevent that, you
     
     >
     
      would have to pay an
     
     >
     
      unpayable price. (Meaning changing the quests and
     
     >
     
      lotsa things in the game
     
     >
     
      regularly, which would make the whole game entirely
     
     >
     
      unenjoyable.) But
     
     >
     
      believe me, pro players never do things like that.
     
     >
     
      And the other ones... they can get lotsa money with
     
     >
     
      alchemy, get some xp
     
     >
     
      in the TCs, etc., but they won't disturb any
     
     >
     
      balance, that's for sure.
     
     >
     
      That doesn't mean I don't like players whit that
     
     >
     
      playing style, no.
     
     >
     
      There's no problem with it, that's why I'm trying to
     
     >
     
      protect them in a
     
     >
     
      way. They enjoy playing, and that's what really
     
     >
     
      matters!
     
     >
     
      As in any other muds, non-pros and pro-s should be
     
     >
     
      equally important.
     
     >
     
      All I'm saying, I can't see any balancing issues at
     
     >
     
      that lvl.
     
     >
     
      About the TCs, they are simply "dungeons in town",
     
     >
     
      which may seem to be
     
     >
     
      ridiculous, but their only purpose is to grant a
     
     >
     
      fast way to get levels
     
     >
     
      back. (As for me, as far as I know, I still have a
     
     >
     
      lvl 103 char. on
     
     >
     
      metalforge, and have been to the high-lvl TCs once
     
     >
     
      or twice. And that's
     
     >
     
      because I died once or twice as well. The point is,
     
     >
     
      had I died more, I
     
     >
     
      had been there more as well.)
     
     >
     
      And the xp-loss=time-loss for players is just a
     
     >
     
      strong enough penalty.
     
     >
     
      Time is the most precious thing we can have!
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
      Let me finish with this:
     
     >
     
      (I'm trying to tell you this every time with
     
     >
     
      different words, I hope one
     
     >
     
      day my voice will be heard.)
     
     >
     
      Please, devs, don't think about CF as a game with
     
     >
     
      players! Think about it
     
     >
     
      as players in a game! You have an idea, think about
     
     >
     
      the players, not the
     
     >
     
      game itself.
     
     >
     
      There is a huge difference beetween "This way the
     
     >
     
      game would be much more
     
     >
     
      balanced." and "This way the players would play in a
     
     >
     
      much more balanced
     
     >
     
      game."
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
      Xenon
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
      PS.: Forget money already! Really, there's NO
     
     >
     
      problem AT ALL with money
     
     >
     
      in the game!! (Maybe it' better this way, that
     
     >
     
      almost noone concerns
     
     >
     
      about money in CF. At least it's much-much nicer
     
     >
     
      than in the real world.)
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
      On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Mark Wedel wrote:
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
      >
     
     >
     
      >   I agree that we shouldn't get bogged down on
     
     >
     
      what is a metal or not (although,
     
     >
     
      > bronze is a metal, it just not an element :) or
     
     >
     
      necessarily the realism of
     
     >
     
      > objects, etc.
     
     >
     
      >
     
     >
     
      >   I'd note that one possible indication of poor
     
     >
     
      quality of workmanship is for
     
     >
     
      > objects to be -1, -2, etc, but non cursed.
     
     >
     
      >
     
     >
     
      >   I'd also note that in my findings, it isn't all
     
     >
     
      the misc non magical items
     
     >
     
      > that are really worth much - its the fact that you
     
     >
     
      collect everything, identify
     
     >
     
      > the stuff that is magical, and find that +1 sword
     
     >
     
      of lythander, or other magical
     
     >
     
      > items that basically covers everything - something
     
     >
     
      like that could be 100 pp.
     
     >
     
      >
     
     >
     
      >   Now reducing the value of the objects helps out
     
     >
     
      - that value is basically
     
     >
     
      > determined as a multiplicative effect, so if items
     
     >
     
      are 25% value, what was once
     
     >
     
      > a 100 pp combo is now only a 25 pp combo.
     
     >
     
      >
     
     >
     
      >   I do wonder however on some of the potential
     
     >
     
      strangeness - one could seriously
     
     >
     
      > ask why/how would a +1 bronze longsword of
     
     >
     
      lythander get created for example (if
     
     >
     
      > you're going to make a magical item, start with a
     
     >
     
      decent base weapon at least).
     
     >
     
      >
     
     >
     
      >
     
     >
     
      > _______________________________________________
     
     >
     
      > crossfire-devel mailing list
     
     >
     
      > 
      
      crossfire-devel at lists.real-time.com
      
      
     >
     
      >
     
     >
     
     
     
     https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/crossfire-devel
     
     
>
     
      >
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
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     >
     
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