[crossfire] Random ideas.

Andrew Fuchs fuchs.andy at gmail.com
Mon Jul 4 19:19:23 CDT 2005


On 7/4/05, Mark Wedel <
     
     mwedel at sonic.net
     
     > wrote:
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      Nicolas Weeger wrote:
     
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      >>2) Does anyone right now really use the magic map command?  One thought
     
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      >>I've had would be to change it - instead of just sending the colors, it
     
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      >>instead sends the faces of everything (or maybe limit it to just the
     
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      >>floor/wall/other non living stuff?)  this would probably make it useful.
     
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      > Yes, I use it often, to spot monsters on maps, and such.
     
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      > Sending faces could make more detailed maps.
     
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      > Also, maybe we could implement automapping? So player knows some maps
     
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      > already visited, and keep that knowledge between sessions. Maybe with
     
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      > a 'forget' factor, losing some details :)
     
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        Yes, sending faces would make it more detailed - perhaps arguably too
     
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      detailed.  OTOH, maybe not that bad if you go by the basis that for many maps if
     
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      you've been there before, you sort of know what is around anyways.  Certainly by
     
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      sending faces, the client could use it to fill in a bunch of fog of war spaces.
     
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        As far as automapping, that can almost be done automatically on the client.
     
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      The real issue why it can't easily be done right now is that we hide the
     
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      coordinates that the player is on when they change maps.  This is done because
     
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      without doing so, so maps become much simpler (if you can see where all the
     
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      teleporters are taking you, very easy to see where you need to go and where
     
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      you've been).
     
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        A real example of this would be the electric church in brest.  If coordinates
     
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      are sent each time you fall through a bit, working your way through the maze
     
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      would be very easy.
     
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        That said, while playing, it can be very annoying to step on a teleporter and
     
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      have your entire known map go away, even when you step back through again.  So
     
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      it really becomes  balance on convenience vs trying to be secure.
     
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        More random thoughts on client caching fog maps:
     
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      1) If some coder was really clever, they could automatically try to figure out
     
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      what map, and thus what cached fog map to use, based on data they see.  A simple
     
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      example is scorn - see 4 signs, a fountain, etc, and you'd easily identify that
     
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      as scorn, and could load up the appropriate data.  Many dungeons would be much
     
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      trickier because the data isn't as consistent or could be more ambiguous (and
     
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      client would have to catch that - did it guess the wrong map, or did someone
     
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      cast an earthwall?)
     
     
The current map can be gotten through the "mapinfo" command, though
figuring out where you are located on a map, is more difficult; since
you can make several locations look the same.

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      2) If client was to cache maps, it'd need some logic, just like the server, to
     
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      time out maps that player hasn't visited for a while.  For example, you don't
     
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      want megabytes of random maps stored away, which by definition, the player can't
     
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      visit again.
     
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      3) Related to above, for random maps, map name may not be good enough to know if
     
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      the right version is in use.  Think of this case - server starts up, player logs
     
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      in and goes to random dungeon (gets random0001).  Server restarts, player
     
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      repeats - gets the same name, but since map is random it is not the same map.
     
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      Yet at the same time, there is some desire to remember random maps, like say
     
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      when going down through a random dungeon - if for some reason you leave and come
     
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      back, would be handy to be able to see where you've been before and make it that
     
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      much easier to get through.
     
     
If the map's path (as returned by "mapinfo") ends in "random????",
check to see if the suroundings match what was cached.

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      4) Client caching maps wouldn't have to be that complicated, and wouldn't take
     
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      that much space.  Could do something just like:
     
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      mapsize 20 20
     
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      space 0 0
     
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      forest.111
     
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      sign.111
     
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      space 0 1
     
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      cobblestone.111
     
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      orc.111
     
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      ...
     
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        because after all, the only think the client knows is the face name/number.
     
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      It'd really need to store things by name since the face numbers can change from
     
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      run to run (OTOH, it could be clever at create a bmaps file for each map that
     
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      contains the number to name map for the faces stored in the map, thus making it
     
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      even easier to parse those cached maps).
     
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      5) Outdoor maps would need improved handling - right now, the client isn't even
     
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      aware when the player moves across the tiles.  It does have logic to recenter
     
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      and clear out the old data as needed, but to handle outdoor maps, it would sort
     
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      of need some idea of where it is (which goes back up to telling the coordinates).
     
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      6) It would be neat to have 'map' objects within the game that show a map.  I
     
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      think tchize is working on adding image support to objects.  But what I envision
     
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      beyond that would be if you have one of these maps, and is actually where the
     
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      map displays its stuff, if you applied it, it would 'fill in' the area around
     
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      you on your map (fog of war) area.
     
     
That brings in the question, of if there should be a cartography
skill, and if map makers should be able to restrict it's use on some
maps.  I think the results of mapping the maze mikeeusa has been
working on recently would prove to be interesting. (it would need to
be mapped in more than 2 dimensions, since it uses tricks with tiling)

In addition, I think the idea of having "bad" or inaccurate maps, for
the purpose of misleading players, could prove interesting.

--
Andrew Fuchs

    
    


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