[crossfire] GTK V2 client default layout and map size

[Raphaël Quinet]

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:44:02 -0800, Mark Wedel <mwedel at sonic.net> wrote:
>   If you only have a display that does 1024x768, then the Oroboros is the likely 
> winner.  But if you have a higher res display, that probably isn't a first 
> choice, as you have a lot more display area than it uses.

It depends.  Since I play from time to time using different computers, I end
up using different screen resolutions: 1024x768, 1280x1024, 1600x1200, etc.
I think that the original gtk v2 layout isn't too bad and I can even use it
at 1024x768 using a few tricks to save space.

If you look carefully, you will see that the gtk v2 and the Oroboros layout
are almost the same, except that the map area is moved from the top left to
the bottom right.  Otherwise, both are based on a basic 2-columns layout, with
one column containing the same 3 rows (messages, inventory, floor view) and
the other other one containing the map and the stats/skills/etc.  One
difference is that Oroboros puts the HP/SP/Gr/Food/Exp bars inside one of the
tabs instead of besides the tabs.  I do not like this choice because it means
that I cannot view these very important bars as easily when I am viewing the
other tabs, so that's why I still prefer the v2 layout.

I think that before we try to pick the "best layout", there are two things
that should be investigated:
1) What information is important to the players?  What should always be
   visible on the screen and what can be toggled in/out of view using tabs or
   using any other appropriate mechanism?  I would like to have a discussion
   on what we need to show before having a discussion about how it should be
   shown.
2) Is it possible to make the layout more flexible?  Instead of having to
   select among a predefined set of layouts, could we find a way to provide a
   good default layout while still allowing the user to change it easily?

After discussing these two points, then we can go back to the selection of
the best layout if this is still relevant.

I will start with a few comments on point 2) because this is related to what
Mark wrote:
>   Now it may be that the client should try and be smart and choose a best 
> default layout based on various factors, like screen resolution.  Same could be 
> said for things like map size.
> 
>   A better approach may be to have a basic configuration program (or window) 
> that is used first time client is run by user (no .crossfire file).  A fair 
> number of commercial games use that approach - configure the display 
> resolution/quality you want to use, configure sound, etc.

This is not an ideal approach because it forces to to select (automatically
or via some configuration program) among a set of predefined layouts and
maybe none of them is perfect for you.  Instead, I would prefer to start with
a good layout that can work well at low resolutions (a 2-columns layout) and
then allow the user to add or remove a third column at any time and pick the
tabs that should be in that column.

I have some experience with that in GIMP: instead of having a fixed layout
for all tools and dialogs, you can create any number of "docks" and drag tabs
into these docks or out of them.  GIMP uses separate top-level windows for
the docks, but this could also be done using columns belonging to the same
top-level window.  Once you have done the initial effort to replace/subclass
the GtkNotebook widgets, you get a lot more flexibility and then you do not
have to worry anymore about what layout is best, because you know that the
users will be able to re-organize the tabs according to their preferences.

The main concern would be to select the best initial layout, but we would not
need to worry about how a 2-columns layout wastes space on a widescreen
display because we will know that it is easy to add a third column if the
user wants it.

>   I'm also not wild about the way the stats are displayed in all the layouts 
> (which really isn't changed) - that is to say being in a single row:
> Str 5 Dex 6 Con 10, etc
> 
>   as that never seems really easy to find for me, and I can't think of any other 
> game that displays them - doing them as a column, with column to the right (or 
> maybe several) may be more readable and more effective use of space, eg:
> 
> Str 6		Speed 		0.50
> Dex 10		Weapon Speed	0.80
> Con 18		Damage		15
> Int 14		WC		6
> 
>   and so on.  As an aside, since exp now has its own statbar, there really isn't 
> much reason for there also to be a display in the stat area.

A column layout might be nice for the stats.  But regarding the point 1) that
I mentioned above, I would be interested in a discussion about what we
consider to be the most important information.  Besides the map, messages and
inventory, I would consider the following information to be important
especially during combat and I would like a layout that allows me to see all
of these things at the same time:

Most important (sorted by order of importance):
  - HP/SP/Gr/Food bars
  - range (current spell or bow) - important if I have the wrong thing active
    and I am wondering why the monsters around me are not harmed
  - protections (percentages for all current protections, armor) - important
    especially when they change because I have been hit or a spell expires.
  - AC
  - damage
  - speed
  - weapon speed
  - WC

Less important (not important during combat, can be "tabbed away"):
  - stats (Str, Dex, Con, ...)
  - experience
  - level
  - skills and experience in each skill
  - character name

Alas, there is currently no 2-columns layout that displays simultaneously all
information that I consider to be important.  Others may have different
preferences, of course.  But it would be nice to agree on what should be
visible in the minimal layout (default) before discussing how it should be
organized.

-Raphaël