From norkthedork at gmail.com  Mon Jun 27 16:01:07 2016
From: norkthedork at gmail.com (DraugTheWhopper)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:01:07 -0400
Subject: [crossfire] building very old versions
In-Reply-To: <dd2f7cd2-ce82-8e2a-6704-50e064cd7730@real-time.com>
References: <CAL4LZyhKbdedd8oysYaQ1qSZ-AGv4jnn1x9r8Vd42ipjLKd-Kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <30a0b58a-8ef6-be8b-698f-61683409743d@tanners.org>
 <CAPzz3hbHp-A4k5i+E27e70XAVofRVkf55iNTnaWJhSoMRq4N6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL4LZyggMWR5uQkii3ED2tE2VNcB_hkwRubJ8Ck9xK+DKf4BwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <39208ee8-321a-0bec-ad16-16c139886bfa@real-time.com>
 <573AB53A.7030006@sonic.net>
 <dd2f7cd2-ce82-8e2a-6704-50e064cd7730@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CADz-NUsQVY4+Zvnf99eNW9tUccXfJQuufdq8ayJfpoU0fyEcmA@mail.gmail.com>

> A question would be what exactly are you looking for in those old
versions? The retro graphics, old maps, old gameplay, etc?

Like many things Linux, I cut my teeth on whatever was included with SuSE
7.2 Pro. I think it was something in the .90 era, probably color. Some
highlights:

The layout of cfclient remains my favorite to this day. About the best
improvement since then was splitting the message window into high/low
priority. Sorry to whoever heads it up, I still can't bring myself to
stomach the JXclient.

The tileset was much more cohesive (than it is now), including the
environment, monsters, and items. The art style was simple, and the
isometric look was implemented well.

The gameplay was much different, even "twitchy". I'm sure this stems from
various reasons, including the metalforge-style melee balance, the lack of
latency when running the server on my own machine (no internet access back
in the day), and other quirks like spellcasting taking little or no time.
Regardless, I'd love to see a more responsive gameplay experience, although
I understand that there are such things as technical constraints and design
decisions.

Polymorph. Just polymorph. Although there were some interesting exploits,
like polymorphing your pets until you got a hyper kobold.

--DTW/Draug
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From matthew at giassa.net  Mon Jun 27 16:06:01 2016
From: matthew at giassa.net (Matthew Giassa)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:06:01 -0700
Subject: [crossfire] building very old versions
Message-ID: <20160627140601.fccade4f64c1f11ce2bc6da07fd9ab91.4bbebdac6b.wbe@email16.godaddy.com>

How did that hyperkobold 'sploit work? I recall the transmuting one with
alchemy where you could make essentially damage-immune armor or crazy
powerful weapons (ie: Rugilli's Whisker without the item power
constraint).

============================================================
Matthew Giassa, MASc, BASc, EIT
Security and Embedded Systems Specialist
linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/giassa
e-mail:   matthew at giassa.net
website:  www.giassa.net

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [crossfire] building very old versions
> From: DraugTheWhopper <norkthedork at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, June 27, 2016 2:01 pm
> To: Crossfire Discussion Mailing List <crossfire at metalforge.org>
> 
> 
> > A question would be what exactly are you looking for in those old
> versions? The retro graphics, old maps, old gameplay, etc?
> 
> Like many things Linux, I cut my teeth on whatever was included with SuSE
> 7.2 Pro. I think it was something in the .90 era, probably color. Some
> highlights:
> 
> The layout of cfclient remains my favorite to this day. About the best
> improvement since then was splitting the message window into high/low
> priority. Sorry to whoever heads it up, I still can't bring myself to
> stomach the JXclient.
> 
> The tileset was much more cohesive (than it is now), including the
> environment, monsters, and items. The art style was simple, and the
> isometric look was implemented well.
> 
> The gameplay was much different, even "twitchy". I'm sure this stems from
> various reasons, including the metalforge-style melee balance, the lack of
> latency when running the server on my own machine (no internet access back
> in the day), and other quirks like spellcasting taking little or no time.
> Regardless, I'd love to see a more responsive gameplay experience, although
> I understand that there are such things as technical constraints and design
> decisions.
> 
> Polymorph. Just polymorph. Although there were some interesting exploits,
> like polymorphing your pets until you got a hyper kobold.
> 
> --DTW/Draug<hr>_______________________________________________
> crossfire mailing list
> crossfire at metalforge.org
> http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire

From rick at tanners.org  Mon Jun 27 16:11:46 2016
From: rick at tanners.org (Rick Tanner)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:11:46 -0500
Subject: [crossfire] building very old versions
In-Reply-To: <20160627140601.fccade4f64c1f11ce2bc6da07fd9ab91.4bbebdac6b.wbe@email16.godaddy.com>
References: <20160627140601.fccade4f64c1f11ce2bc6da07fd9ab91.4bbebdac6b.wbe@email16.godaddy.com>
Message-ID: <db98e17d-cb39-cff1-e1dc-695b30c2ee95@tanners.org>

On 6/27/16 4:06 PM, Matthew Giassa wrote:
> How did that hyperkobold 'sploit work? 

The method I am aware of was - summon one of the many pet monsters. Use
polymorph spell on the summoned pet until they morphed in to the
Hyperkobold. Sit back and camp in a map while the Hyperkobold racks up
big exp or use it to kill extremely high level monsters or clear out
maps and collect the loot after that.




From norkthedork at gmail.com  Mon Jun 27 20:13:29 2016
From: norkthedork at gmail.com (DraugTheWhopper)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:13:29 -0400
Subject: [crossfire] building very old versions
In-Reply-To: <db98e17d-cb39-cff1-e1dc-695b30c2ee95@tanners.org>
References: <20160627140601.fccade4f64c1f11ce2bc6da07fd9ab91.4bbebdac6b.wbe@email16.godaddy.com>
 <db98e17d-cb39-cff1-e1dc-695b30c2ee95@tanners.org>
Message-ID: <CADz-NUuSFMaNcK22ya9G_PGBT034i+R_ukZn0Yk97+5rj8ygBA@mail.gmail.com>

> Use polymorph spell on the summoned pet until they morphed in to the
Hyperkobold.

It took enough tries to get a hyperkobold that it usually helped to first
summon an entire "cloud" of pets, on the order of 15 or 20, so you could
polymorph half a dozen with one bolt.

Also, me and my brother (who also toyed with Linux in the day) could never
get much past level 20 or 30, since we weren't particularly smart players.
This may have been on a later version, but I also recall petering out
around 10 or 15 before we realized how to use the old restoration potions
(I think?) to counteract stat depletion.
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From robert at timetraveller.org  Tue Jun 28 02:36:36 2016
From: robert at timetraveller.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 17:36:36 +1000 (AEST)
Subject: [crossfire] building very old versions
In-Reply-To: <573AB53A.7030006@sonic.net>
References: <CAL4LZyhKbdedd8oysYaQ1qSZ-AGv4jnn1x9r8Vd42ipjLKd-Kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <30a0b58a-8ef6-be8b-698f-61683409743d@tanners.org>
 <CAPzz3hbHp-A4k5i+E27e70XAVofRVkf55iNTnaWJhSoMRq4N6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL4LZyggMWR5uQkii3ED2tE2VNcB_hkwRubJ8Ck9xK+DKf4BwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <39208ee8-321a-0bec-ad16-16c139886bfa@real-time.com>
 <573AB53A.7030006@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1606281724130.32459@sirius.opentrend.net>

On Mon, 16 May 2016, Mark Wedel wrote:

> It also looks (via a quick grep of 'skill *.README') that the skill code 
> first appeared in 0.92.1.  Before that time, each character just had a single 
> experience total and level, and that overall level determined things like 
> ability to cast spells, ability to hit things, hp, sp, etc.

I still have my original Crossfire character (Lars the Northman) who would 
date from around '95.  Lars passed beyond the world of mortals long ago. 
Today he lives on as a pure DM character who only appears when the DM is 
needed.

When I brought Lars back after years archived I think the game gave him a 
few base skills automatically.

Lars was probably archived for 10 years.  I'm impressed that I was able to 
load such an old character and have the game cope.

> I can certainly make any of the versions available if desired.

Yes please.  Like others I'd like to keep ancient versions archived and 
for review.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
Email: robert at timetraveller.org		Linux counter ID #16440
IRC: Solver (OFTC, Freenode and Snoonet)
Web: http://www.pracops.com
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy

From matthew at giassa.net  Wed Jun 29 22:51:51 2016
From: matthew at giassa.net (Matthew Giassa)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:51:51 -0700
Subject: [crossfire] building very old versions
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1606281724130.32459@sirius.opentrend.net>
References: <CAL4LZyhKbdedd8oysYaQ1qSZ-AGv4jnn1x9r8Vd42ipjLKd-Kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <30a0b58a-8ef6-be8b-698f-61683409743d@tanners.org>
 <CAPzz3hbHp-A4k5i+E27e70XAVofRVkf55iNTnaWJhSoMRq4N6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL4LZyggMWR5uQkii3ED2tE2VNcB_hkwRubJ8Ck9xK+DKf4BwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <39208ee8-321a-0bec-ad16-16c139886bfa@real-time.com>
 <573AB53A.7030006@sonic.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.11.1606281724130.32459@sirius.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <57749757.1050503@giassa.net>

That name rings a bell from way back when. Not quite "cauldron.exe" 
time, but near.

============================================================
Matthew Giassa, MASc, BASc, EIT
Security and Embedded Systems Specialist
linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/giassa
e-mail:   matthew at giassa.net
website:  www.giassa.net

On 06/28/16 00:36, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2016, Mark Wedel wrote:
>
>> It also looks (via a quick grep of 'skill *.README') that the skill
>> code first appeared in 0.92.1.  Before that time, each character just
>> had a single experience total and level, and that overall level
>> determined things like ability to cast spells, ability to hit things,
>> hp, sp, etc.
>
> I still have my original Crossfire character (Lars the Northman) who
> would date from around '95.  Lars passed beyond the world of mortals
> long ago. Today he lives on as a pure DM character who only appears when
> the DM is needed.
>
> When I brought Lars back after years archived I think the game gave him
> a few base skills automatically.
>
> Lars was probably archived for 10 years.  I'm impressed that I was able
> to load such an old character and have the game cope.
>
>> I can certainly make any of the versions available if desired.
>
> Yes please.  Like others I'd like to keep ancient versions archived and
> for review.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rob
>