From pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net Mon Jul 10 09:03:06 2017 From: pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net (Preston Crow) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:03:06 -0400 Subject: [crossfire] Minor bugs Message-ID: I've started playing again on Metalforge after a break of a dozen years or so. I've noticed a few minor bugs. Some of them might just be me, but I'll toss them out here in case someone wants to fix them: It appears that the spell "magehound" is not possible to obtain. It is not in any of the treasure lists, so it doesn't ever appear in stores. Resizing the map in the client will occasionally cause things on the other side of walls to show up. The "unidentified" tab in the client doesn't seem to work. It's always blank, even when I have unidentified items. Sometimes I have to shift-click twice to lock or unlock an item. (I'm using pointer focus, so I shouldn't lose the first click to get focus.) When I walk away from an open container on the floor, occasionally the code still behaves as if I'm on top of the open container, even if I move to another map. I've been able to drink a potion from a container in my apartment when in another map. I think this has something to do with opening and closing containers in my inventory and in the square, but I'm not sure how I've triggered this glitch. I've never seen a quiver of bolts, only a quiver of holding bolts. I think this is an oversight. The -split option on the client doesn't seem to work anymore. No separate windows for me. (I'm not sure it's really useful, though.) I also note that the subwindows don't start up in the same place each time, which would be convenient. I keep having to resize things or the experience window is squished to nothing. I haven't encountered a scroll of sense curse yet--probably just my luck. It's also the only skill scroll not in the permanent store in Scorn on Metalforge, which makes me suspicious that something's up. Grepping in the source indicates that it is referenced in various places, so it's probably just bad luck. The web documentation indicates that I can get jumping experience by jumping into monsters, but I can't seem to even kill a kobold, so I'm not sure that's correct. Not like I'm going to spend my life jumping at monsters, though. From kevinz5000 at gmail.com Mon Jul 10 23:37:24 2017 From: kevinz5000 at gmail.com (Kevin Zheng) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 21:37:24 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Minor bugs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 07/10/2017 07:03, Preston Crow wrote: > Resizing the map in the client will occasionally cause things on the > other side of walls to show up. > > The "unidentified" tab in the client doesn't seem to work. It's always > blank, even when I have unidentified items. > > Sometimes I have to shift-click twice to lock or unlock an item. (I'm > using pointer focus, so I shouldn't lose the first click to get focus.) What version of the client are you using? On what OS? > When I walk away from an open container on the floor, occasionally the > code still behaves as if I'm on top of the open container, even if I > move to another map. I've been able to drink a potion from a container > in my apartment when in another map. I think this has something to do > with opening and closing containers in my inventory and in the square, > but I'm not sure how I've triggered this glitch. I believe this is fixed on recent servers. I don't remember if this is fixed on Metalforge or not. > The -split option on the client doesn't seem to work anymore. No > separate windows for me. (I'm not sure it's really useful, though.) I > also note that the subwindows don't start up in the same place each > time, which would be convenient. I keep having to resize things or the > experience window is squished to nothing. This must be an old client. > I haven't encountered a scroll of sense curse yet--probably just my > luck. It's also the only skill scroll not in the permanent store in > Scorn on Metalforge, which makes me suspicious that something's up. > Grepping in the source indicates that it is referenced in various > places, so it's probably just bad luck. Those are definitely available in newer servers; Metalforge I'm not sure but I don't imagine why not. -- Kevin Zheng kevinz5000 at gmail.com | kevinz at berkeley.edu | PGP: 0xC22E1090 From pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net Tue Jul 11 07:30:55 2017 From: pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net (Preston Crow) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:30:55 -0400 Subject: [crossfire] Minor bugs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm running 1.71.0 on Linux (Gentoo). On 07/11/17 00:37, Kevin Zheng wrote: > On 07/10/2017 07:03, Preston Crow wrote: >> Resizing the map in the client will occasionally cause things on the >> other side of walls to show up. >> >> The "unidentified" tab in the client doesn't seem to work. It's always >> blank, even when I have unidentified items. >> >> Sometimes I have to shift-click twice to lock or unlock an item. (I'm >> using pointer focus, so I shouldn't lose the first click to get focus.) > What version of the client are you using? On what OS? > >> When I walk away from an open container on the floor, occasionally the >> code still behaves as if I'm on top of the open container, even if I >> move to another map. I've been able to drink a potion from a container >> in my apartment when in another map. I think this has something to do >> with opening and closing containers in my inventory and in the square, >> but I'm not sure how I've triggered this glitch. > I believe this is fixed on recent servers. I don't remember if this is > fixed on Metalforge or not. > >> The -split option on the client doesn't seem to work anymore. No >> separate windows for me. (I'm not sure it's really useful, though.) I >> also note that the subwindows don't start up in the same place each >> time, which would be convenient. I keep having to resize things or the >> experience window is squished to nothing. > This must be an old client. > >> I haven't encountered a scroll of sense curse yet--probably just my >> luck. It's also the only skill scroll not in the permanent store in >> Scorn on Metalforge, which makes me suspicious that something's up. >> Grepping in the source indicates that it is referenced in various >> places, so it's probably just bad luck. > Those are definitely available in newer servers; Metalforge I'm not sure > but I don't imagine why not. > From davidnicholashurst at gmail.com Sat Jul 29 23:05:00 2017 From: davidnicholashurst at gmail.com (David Hurst) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 14:05:00 +1000 Subject: [crossfire] Ideas for balancing tweaks for next release Message-ID: Hi guys and gals, I've been spending a lot of time playing crossfire lately and the discussion around a new release prompted me to think about some potential balance improvements that could be made. I am thinking about some of the more fundamental aspects of the game such as player race attributes which do have wider ramifications that adjusting maps, therefore, I have created a table on the wiki to document these potential changes and provided a little description around the rationale. http://wiki.cross-fire.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/user:saru:new_release_balance I'm not suggesting they are perfect or that there isn't better ways to address some of these issues, but i'm really focusing on the low hanging fruit that I can actually assist with. I welcome any additions to these balance changes and I might suggest a poll of some description as we approach release to confirm any specific changes. Thoughts? Regards, Saru -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sun Jul 30 00:27:05 2017 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 01:27:05 -0400 Subject: [crossfire] Ideas for balancing tweaks for next release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170730052705.GA11868@www.mrbrklyn.com> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 02:05:00PM +1000, David Hurst wrote: > Hi guys and gals, > > I've been spending a lot of time playing crossfire lately and the > discussion around a new release prompted me to think about some potential > balance improvements that could be made. I am thinking about some of the > more fundamental aspects of the game such as player race attributes which > do have wider ramifications that adjusting maps, therefore, I have created > a table on the wiki to document these potential changes and provided a > little description around the rationale. where are you playing? > > http://wiki.cross-fire.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/user:saru:new_release_balance > > I'm not suggesting they are perfect or that there isn't better ways to > address some of these issues, but i'm really focusing on the low hanging > fruit that I can actually assist with. > > I welcome any additions to these balance changes and I might suggest a poll > of some description as we approach release to confirm any specific changes. > Thoughts? > > Regards, > Saru > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 From davidnicholashurst at gmail.com Sun Jul 30 01:24:29 2017 From: davidnicholashurst at gmail.com (David Hurst) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 16:24:29 +1000 Subject: [crossfire] Ideas for balancing tweaks for next release In-Reply-To: <20170730052705.GA11868@www.mrbrklyn.com> References: <20170730052705.GA11868@www.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: ajh.co It's located in Melbourne, Australia. It isn't advertised on the metaserver because when I followed the guide it didn't seem to work and i'm using the 1.71 GTK client on windows so I don't have a meta server anyway. Regards, Saru On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 02:05:00PM +1000, David Hurst wrote: > > Hi guys and gals, > > > > I've been spending a lot of time playing crossfire lately and the > > discussion around a new release prompted me to think about some potential > > balance improvements that could be made. I am thinking about some of the > > more fundamental aspects of the game such as player race attributes which > > do have wider ramifications that adjusting maps, therefore, I have > created > > a table on the wiki to document these potential changes and provided a > > little description around the rationale. > > > where are you playing? > > > > > http://wiki.cross-fire.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/user:saru: > new_release_balance > > > > I'm not suggesting they are perfect or that there isn't better ways to > > address some of these issues, but i'm really focusing on the low hanging > > fruit that I can actually assist with. > > > > I welcome any additions to these balance changes and I might suggest a > poll > > of some description as we approach release to confirm any specific > changes. > > Thoughts? > > > > Regards, > > Saru > > > _______________________________________________ > > crossfire mailing list > > crossfire at metalforge.org > > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > > > -- > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town > that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological > proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 > http://www.mrbrklyn.com > > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive > http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! > http://www.brooklyn-living.com > > Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, > but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net Sun Jul 30 16:08:49 2017 From: pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net (Preston Crow) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 17:08:49 -0400 Subject: [crossfire] Ideas for balancing tweaks for next release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9c11879c-9afb-9f1f-2ba2-df4911d2f3f3@crowcastle.net> I like your thinking on this. You have a place for monsters, but didn't put any on the list. I've been playing on Metalforge recently, and I've found pixies to be worthless monsters. They seem to usually have wands but never use them. I seem to recall they used their wands at one point in the past, making them randomly dangerous. On 07/30/17 00:05, David Hurst wrote: > Hi guys and gals, > > I've been spending a lot of time playing crossfire lately and the > discussion around a new release prompted me to think about some > potential balance improvements that could be made. I am thinking about > some of the more fundamental aspects of the game such as player race > attributes which do have wider ramifications that adjusting maps, > therefore, I have created a table on the wiki to document these > potential changes and provided a little description around the rationale. > > http://wiki.cross-fire.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/user:saru:new_release_balance > > I'm not suggesting they are perfect or that there isn't better ways to > address some of these issues, but i'm really focusing on the low > hanging fruit that I can actually assist with. > > I welcome any additions to these balance changes and I might suggest a > poll of some description as we approach release to confirm any > specific changes. Thoughts? > > Regards, > Saru > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net Sun Jul 30 16:12:24 2017 From: pc-crossfire06 at crowcastle.net (Preston Crow) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 17:12:24 -0400 Subject: [crossfire] Best map editor? Message-ID: If I want to play around with creating maps, what is the best program to use? (In my case, I prefer running Linux.) From robert at timetraveller.org Sun Jul 30 18:25:14 2017 From: robert at timetraveller.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 09:25:14 +1000 (AEST) Subject: [crossfire] Best map editor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use Gridarta on Linux. TBH I thought that was the only option now. I've increasingly taken to hand editing maps I'm working on (using vi on Linux). I do this as it is faster. I have also considered writing scripts to produce patterned maps. Cheers, Rob On Sun, 30 Jul 2017, Preston Crow wrote: > If I want to play around with creating maps, what is the best program to use? > (In my case, I prefer running Linux.) > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > From kevinz5000 at gmail.com Mon Jul 31 00:22:57 2017 From: kevinz5000 at gmail.com (Kevin Zheng) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2017 22:22:57 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Ideas for balancing tweaks for next release In-Reply-To: <9c11879c-9afb-9f1f-2ba2-df4911d2f3f3@crowcastle.net> References: <9c11879c-9afb-9f1f-2ba2-df4911d2f3f3@crowcastle.net> Message-ID: <26c6326c-5fd2-c6a3-eb94-41c321365cc8@gmail.com> On 07/30/2017 14:08, Preston Crow wrote: > I like your thinking on this. You have a place for monsters, but didn't > put any on the list. I've been playing on Metalforge recently, and I've > found pixies to be worthless monsters. They seem to usually have wands > but never use them. I seem to recall they used their wands at one point > in the past, making them randomly dangerous. Glad these ideas are being discussed. I do want to point out that I'd like to hold off major changes until this release gets out the door. We're still shaking out some last issues and I really don't want to delay this any more than it already is. I'm shooting for getting this out the door on or before the weekend of August 12th. Releasing isn't that hard but it takes a couple of hours to sit down and get everything done. We should really work on automating this going forward. -- Kevin Zheng kevinz5000 at gmail.com | kevinz at berkeley.edu | PGP: 0xC22E1090 From davidnicholashurst at gmail.com Mon Jul 31 05:20:10 2017 From: davidnicholashurst at gmail.com (David Hurst) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 20:20:10 +1000 Subject: [crossfire] Ideas for balancing tweaks for next release In-Reply-To: <9c11879c-9afb-9f1f-2ba2-df4911d2f3f3@crowcastle.net> References: <9c11879c-9afb-9f1f-2ba2-df4911d2f3f3@crowcastle.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I have some thoughts on monster balance that I intend to include in the table. I know random books work (e.g demons and angels can be nasty at times) but now that you mention it, I don't think wands are working. I think we should endeavor to separate bugs from balance and this seems more like a bug (which should be reported here: https://sourceforge.net/p/crossfire/bugs/). Balance is more about tweak existing .arcs to make bring various elements closer to parity (while being careful not to lose the important diversity that these differences bring). I'm happy to document any balance issues people have. Regards, Saru On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Preston Crow wrote: > I like your thinking on this. You have a place for monsters, but didn't > put any on the list. I've been playing on Metalforge recently, and I've > found pixies to be worthless monsters. They seem to usually have wands but > never use them. I seem to recall they used their wands at one point in the > past, making them randomly dangerous. > > On 07/30/17 00:05, David Hurst wrote: > > Hi guys and gals, > > I've been spending a lot of time playing crossfire lately and the > discussion around a new release prompted me to think about some potential > balance improvements that could be made. I am thinking about some of the > more fundamental aspects of the game such as player race attributes which > do have wider ramifications that adjusting maps, therefore, I have created > a table on the wiki to document these potential changes and provided a > little description around the rationale. > > http://wiki.cross-fire.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/user:saru:new_release_balance > > I'm not suggesting they are perfect or that there isn't better ways to > address some of these issues, but i'm really focusing on the low hanging > fruit that I can actually assist with. > > I welcome any additions to these balance changes and I might suggest a > poll of some description as we approach release to confirm any specific > changes. Thoughts? > > Regards, > Saru > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing listcrossfire at metalforge.orghttp://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From om at iki.fi Mon Jul 31 06:59:07 2017 From: om at iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:59:07 +0300 Subject: [crossfire] Ideas for balancing tweaks for next release In-Reply-To: <9c11879c-9afb-9f1f-2ba2-df4911d2f3f3@crowcastle.net> References: <9c11879c-9afb-9f1f-2ba2-df4911d2f3f3@crowcastle.net> Message-ID: On 2017-07-31 00:08, Preston Crow wrote: > I like your thinking on this. You have a place for monsters, but didn't > put any on the list. I've been playing on Metalforge recently, and I've > found pixies to be worthless monsters. They seem to usually have wands > but never use them. I seem to recall they used their wands at one point > in the past, making them randomly dangerous. Madmen seem to (occasionally) use random book-based spells, as do demons, vampires and maybe skeletons? Don't wands currently work? Side note: Can someone explain to me why dragons often leave behind a sword when killed? I mean, they weren't using it in battle, why were they carrying it? -- /* * * Otto J. Makela * * * * * * * * * */ /* Phone: +358 40 765 5772, ICBM: N 60 10' E 24 55' */ /* Mail: Mechelininkatu 26 B 27, FI-00100 Helsinki */ /* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * */ From matthew at giassa.net Mon Jul 31 07:37:37 2017 From: matthew at giassa.net (Matthew Giassa) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 05:37:37 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Ideas for balancing tweaks for next release In-Reply-To: References: <9c11879c-9afb-9f1f-2ba2-df4911d2f3f3@crowcastle.net> Message-ID: <20170731123737.hbd3723bbb4ezspn@darkstar> * Otto J. Makela [2017-07-31 14:59:07 +0300]: >Side note: >Can someone explain to me why dragons often leave behind a sword when killed? >I mean, they weren't using it in battle, why were they carrying it? It was embedded in them from a previous encounter? On a separate note, summon pet monsters should be beefed up (a lot) so that summoning XP isn't just from using a "invoke charm monsters; killpets" bind. By L80, you can clear out entire maps of angels, demons, etc, with that binding. Make the monsters randomly "pacman" the map, leaving doors alone, and have an army of hyper kobolds or necromancers pets. Nobody is doing to spend all day using dancing sword to melee off-screen. >-- > /* * * Otto J. Makela * * * * * * * * * */ > /* Phone: +358 40 765 5772, ICBM: N 60 10' E 24 55' */ > /* Mail: Mechelininkatu 26 B 27, FI-00100 Helsinki */ >/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * */ >_______________________________________________ >crossfire mailing list >crossfire at metalforge.org >http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire From mwedel at sonic.net Mon Jul 31 23:59:58 2017 From: mwedel at sonic.net (Mark Wedel) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 21:59:58 -0700 Subject: [crossfire] Ideas for balancing tweaks for next release In-Reply-To: <26c6326c-5fd2-c6a3-eb94-41c321365cc8@gmail.com> References: <9c11879c-9afb-9f1f-2ba2-df4911d2f3f3@crowcastle.net> <26c6326c-5fd2-c6a3-eb94-41c321365cc8@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 07/30/2017 10:22 PM, Kevin Zheng wrote: > On 07/30/2017 14:08, Preston Crow wrote: >> I like your thinking on this. You have a place for monsters, but didn't >> put any on the list. I've been playing on Metalforge recently, and I've >> found pixies to be worthless monsters. They seem to usually have wands >> but never use them. I seem to recall they used their wands at one point >> in the past, making them randomly dangerous. > > Glad these ideas are being discussed. > > I do want to point out that I'd like to hold off major changes until > this release gets out the door. We're still shaking out some last issues > and I really don't want to delay this any more than it already is. > > I'm shooting for getting this out the door on or before the weekend of > August 12th. Releasing isn't that hard but it takes a couple of hours to > sit down and get everything done. We should really work on automating > this going forward. My experience in the past is most of the time is finding out something was done but some part missing with respect to the release (eg, a file not added to the makefile so it ends being in the source repo but not the tar files built) It used to be that 'make archive' was all that was really needed - it would make the tar file, then uncompress it, run configure in that new directory, run the make, make install, and verify none of that got an error. That's about as automated as something can get. The one thing that could be improved (though I don't thing SF supports this) would be doing that after every commit (or once a day or something), so if a file is added but missing from a makefile or whatever, it is found at that time, and not when you go off to make the release.