[crossfire] Improving IRC availability with a chat bridge

Ruben Safir ruben at mrbrklyn.com
Thu Feb 7 08:55:47 CST 2019

On Sun, Feb 03, 2019 at 04:47:43PM -0500, Nathaniel Kipps wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:21 PM Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> > > > I see great reasons to end web based forums..
> > >
> > > Can you give some of these reasons? I'd love to hear them.
> >
> > They depend on  a browser, they spy on you, they are not quick, they
> > don't integrate with my email client, I can't run them from a shell,
> > they are a security nightmare, they don't allow for smother
> > communications .... etc etc etc.
> Let's not be too hasty here. After all, those are perfectly valid
> reasons, but they are only reasons why *you* choose not to use those
> communication methods, and not reasons to get rid of them entirely. 

Actually, those are all reasons to get rid of them entirely.  It is too
bad that this current generation has been dragged around on their
cellphones and data steeling aps that aren't really more than slashdot
analogs, but I don't suffer any such difficency of vission.

Slack and Discord are crap spying and data collection tools that is
inadequate compared to my email client for spinning discussion.

They are insecure and tools for spying and break privacy.

Other than that, they provide zero benifits over email lists and IRC.

The problem here is in perception and being used to OSes where
using more than one desktop at a time, or even one window at a time, is
a major complication.  I suffer from none of that, and those things I
listed are factual problems and not an opinion.

It would be fun to have an IRC channel inside of crossfire's clients,
but it is wholing uneeded if the client plays wells with others on the
desktop, which newer versions are finding more difficult to do...

I am perfectly capable of playing with an IRC client sitting right on
the desktop.

> follow the same argument, I could say that we should end the IRC
> because "it depends on specialized client software, it doesn't let me
> smoothly integrate images and video into the chat, I can't run it from
> my phone, and it makes it very hard for non-savvy people to
> communicate." Remember, the systems that the CF community uses to
> communicate are there for the benefit of all community members, and it
> is up to the entire community to make reasonable accommodations so
> that we exclude as few people as possible. Just because some people do
> not wish to use a specific communication channel does not mean that
> the project should not endorse it.
> And so, the issue we are trying to address here is that there is a
> division between the members of the crossfire community. There are
> some that prefer and are very familiar with IRC, but have issues with
> using other methods of instant chat, and there are those that prefer
> more modern systems like Slack and Discord, but have issues with older
> chat systems like IRC. As it currently is, it does not entirely make
> sense to use IRC only, or to use Slack/Discord only, as we will be
> alienating people either way. That is why I am proposing that we have
> a way of bridging the two, so as to best serve both types of community
> users, and ensure the gap between "IRC people" and "non-IRC people"
> does not continue to widen. Of course, a bridge like this will almost
> certainly require some kind of sacrifice on both sides of the fence,
> the true question is whether the expanded accessibility is worth the
> additional sacrifice.
> More specifically, the two primary areas that would "sacrifice" are A)
> the IRC chat messages would be sent to a third party, and could be
> read by and responded to by members that are not on IRC, and B) the
> message history in the "other" chat system would most likely be
> limited, so users of that system would not be able to easily
> scrollback to their heart's content, as they are accustomed to.
> Thoughts?
> (P.S. Ruben, perhaps I should clarify that I'm not trying to attack
> your perspective, only point out that it's a personal choice, and I
> don't think it should be a guiding principle for the project)
> (That being said, I do hope that everyone on this list continues to
> respond with their own comments and opinions.)
> --DraugTheWhopper
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