From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Wed Dec 8 12:35:09 2021 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2021 19:35:09 +0100 Subject: [crossfire] File format Message-ID: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> Hello. I'm wondering about replacing (some of) our home-made file formats by some standard - json, xml, yaml, whatever, ideas welcome. My rationale is that it's a pain to change the parsing code each time we want to add something to an existing file. Opinions? Flames? Blessings? Best regards Nicolas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From shjohnson.pi at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 13:14:30 2021 From: shjohnson.pi at gmail.com (Steven Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 14:14:30 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] File format In-Reply-To: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> References: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> Message-ID: That sounds like a good idea to me. I suggest YAML since it looks nice and allows comments. XML is pretty verbose but handles anything. JSON looks better than XML but technically doesn't allow comments. I don't think INI files would support what crossfire needs. On Wed, Dec 8, 2021, 1:41 PM Nicolas Weeger wrote: > Hello. > > I'm wondering about replacing (some of) our home-made file formats by some > standard - json, xml, yaml, whatever, ideas welcome. > > My rationale is that it's a pain to change the parsing code each time we > want > to add something to an existing file. > > > Opinions? Flames? Blessings? > > > Best regards > > > Nicolas_______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > IRC: http://crossfire.real-time.com/irc/index.html > Discord: http://crossfire.real-time.com/discord/index.html > Project Site: https://sourceforge.net/projects/crossfire/ > Wiki: http://wiki.cross-fire.org/ > Website: http://crossfire.real-time.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leaf at real-time.com Wed Dec 8 13:54:57 2021 From: leaf at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 13:54:57 -0600 Subject: [crossfire] File format In-Reply-To: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> References: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> Message-ID: I can see and agree with your rationale for choosing a standard file format vs the home-made options. But, as far as which one(s) and why - I have only worked with YAML. So I will have to defer to others for more discussion on the pros and cons of the file formats. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Wed Dec 8 16:01:35 2021 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 17:01:35 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] File format In-Reply-To: References: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> Message-ID: <20211208220135.GA28464@www2.mrbrklyn.com> when your a hammer everything looks like a nail SGML has been doing the job for 30 years+ is my memory serves me right On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 02:14:30PM -0500, Steven Johnson wrote: > That sounds like a good idea to me. > > I suggest YAML since it looks nice and allows comments. > > XML is pretty verbose but handles anything. > > JSON looks better than XML but technically doesn't allow comments. > > I don't think INI files would support what crossfire needs. > > On Wed, Dec 8, 2021, 1:41 PM Nicolas Weeger > wrote: > > > Hello. > > > > I'm wondering about replacing (some of) our home-made file formats by some > > standard - json, xml, yaml, whatever, ideas welcome. > > > > My rationale is that it's a pain to change the parsing code each time we > > want > > to add something to an existing file. > > > > > > Opinions? Flames? Blessings? > > > > > > Best regards > > > > > > Nicolas_______________________________________________ > > crossfire mailing list > > crossfire at metalforge.org > > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > > IRC: http://crossfire.real-time.com/irc/index.html > > Discord: http://crossfire.real-time.com/discord/index.html > > Project Site: https://sourceforge.net/projects/crossfire/ > > Wiki: http://wiki.cross-fire.org/ > > Website: http://crossfire.real-time.com > > > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > IRC: http://crossfire.real-time.com/irc/index.html > Discord: http://crossfire.real-time.com/discord/index.html > Project Site: https://sourceforge.net/projects/crossfire/ > Wiki: http://wiki.cross-fire.org/ > Website: http://crossfire.real-time.com -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Thu Dec 16 13:24:22 2021 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 20:24:22 +0100 Subject: [crossfire] File format In-Reply-To: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> References: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> Message-ID: <19776545.kCYg5WX4i7@gros> Hello. Replying to various points in the same mail :) I think comments should be included in our format, and not in the embedding format. That is instead of having "# this is a treasure list for a dragon" or "", have a "comment" field for a treasure list (and same for other types). Rationale: comments can then be linked to specific items (thus give explanation or comments), and don't need specific handling when manipulating a file. A global file comment can be introduced too, as a file header (eg description of the fields). So for this point JSON is fine too. INI is definitely out of the list for me, because we have many complex structures, with hierarchical relations. I haven't much used YAML, so can't comment too much on it. I admit XML would probably be my favorite, because we can define a XSD and validate everything - of course we can do the same for JSON with JsonSchema :) It is also used by Gridarta, so could simplify sharing things with it. As a downside point it is really verbose... Hopefully though the files will ultimately be manipulated through tools and not edited directly... ^.^;;; Regards Nicolas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From nkipps at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 17:11:43 2021 From: nkipps at gmail.com (Nathaniel Kipps) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 18:11:43 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] File format In-Reply-To: <19776545.kCYg5WX4i7@gros> References: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> <19776545.kCYg5WX4i7@gros> Message-ID: A few points, hopefully helpful, maybe flaming: > SGML Since XML is a subset (superset?) of SGML, I think finding and incorporating an XML parser is much easier than a SGML one. > YAML I hate the idea of being whitespace dependent. Although, I haven't actually *used* YAML... I think the biggest tug of war would be between JSON and XML. I would likely lean toward JSON, since it's more compact. > Hopefully though the files will ultimately be manipulated through tools and not > edited directly... ^.^;;; I think it's important that editing tools are more or less ironclad before making a big change. As hard as it is to learn to make and submit new/changed content, I'd hate to see it get more intimidating through adoption of new formats. Overall, I'll be sad to see a departure from the current flat files, though I acknowledge that the need for something more "standard" is legitimate. --DraugTheWhopper From leaf at real-time.com Sat Dec 18 00:36:15 2021 From: leaf at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 00:36:15 -0600 Subject: [crossfire] Light sources on world map roadways Message-ID: <41b81f00-bb87-8963-2a58-560ba4d68843@real-time.com> This has been posted as a Feature Request on SourceForge as well. #280 Light sources on world map roadways https://sourceforge.net/p/crossfire/feature-requests/280/ Some ideas discussed on IRC/Discord was. * The concept does not take away from the medieval or fantasy aspects of the game * Light sources that are maybe 2 in radius in some spots, otherwise a light radius of 1 * Maybe use the idea of glowing bricks to explain the lore of the light sources in the roadway instead of a lamp post Implementing the idea is already possible, but I was hoping to get more discussion and feedback in the feature request. From nicolas.weeger at laposte.net Tue Dec 21 11:07:42 2021 From: nicolas.weeger at laposte.net (Nicolas Weeger) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2021 18:07:42 +0100 Subject: [crossfire] File format In-Reply-To: References: <2508620.GUJW4iZUuS@gros> <19776545.kCYg5WX4i7@gros> Message-ID: <8825098.Opflf3RzsQ@gros> Hello. > Since XML is a subset (superset?) of SGML, I think finding and > incorporating an XML parser is much easier than a SGML one. Probably, yes. > I think the biggest tug of war would be between JSON and XML. I would > likely lean toward JSON, since it's more compact. Both are good enough in my eyes, so I guess it'll depend on who actually writes the first code :) > I think it's important that editing tools are more or less ironclad > before making a big change. As hard as it is to learn to make and > submit new/changed content, I'd hate to see it get more intimidating > through adoption of new formats. Well, some people find modifying text files intimidating, I guess... Yes tools should be as ironclad as possible, but bugs happen... Besides, a good text editor nowadays will handle JSON or XML without too much hassle, so changing manually would still be possible. > Overall, I'll be sad to see a departure from the current flat files, > though I acknowledge that the need for something more "standard" is > legitimate. Well, you can always write a parser generator :) Given the flat text format definition (in what language?), a generator that'll write a parser (and writer) for it. Then we can keep the flat files :D Best regards Nicolas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From subscriptions at eracc.org Tue Dec 28 12:13:41 2021 From: subscriptions at eracc.org (Poof) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:13:41 -0900 Subject: [crossfire] Heh :P Message-ID: <20211228091341.47f762bf@ealexhome.local> https://drewdevault.com/2021/12/28/Dont-use-Discord-for-FOSS.html Been saying that. Glad someone agrees. Gene -- Mailing List Subscriptions - subscriptions at eracc.org From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Tue Dec 28 15:35:28 2021 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2021 16:35:28 -0500 Subject: [crossfire] Heh :P In-Reply-To: <20211228091341.47f762bf@ealexhome.local> References: <20211228091341.47f762bf@ealexhome.local> Message-ID: <20211228213528.GA12373@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Correct - not that this is rocket science On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 09:13:41AM -0900, Poof wrote: > https://drewdevault.com/2021/12/28/Dont-use-Discord-for-FOSS.html > > Been saying that. Glad someone agrees. > > Gene > -- > Mailing List Subscriptions - subscriptions at eracc.org > _______________________________________________ > crossfire mailing list > crossfire at metalforge.org > http://mailman.metalforge.org/mailman/listinfo/crossfire > IRC: http://crossfire.real-time.com/irc/index.html > Discord: http://crossfire.real-time.com/discord/index.html > Project Site: https://sourceforge.net/projects/crossfire/ > Wiki: http://wiki.cross-fire.org/ > Website: http://crossfire.real-time.com -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013