Tradition is tradition, the fact remain that Ac and Wc are both very confusing terms.. like Hunger was. In most if not all current rpg games, Ac goes up and so does chance to hit (which is probably a better term that WC). While it is fair that Ac has always been from 20 down, and it is true many games use this, I still think it is confusing (Ditto for WC thanks Rick). I Think changing Ac to Dc or Dr is fine, but the issue is I don't want things that go down when they get better, it looks really yuck to have negative numbers. I assume everyone is happy with the required hands etc stuff? For the bow you are sort of right, with shields like bucklers, you can fire (although I suppose it should be slower). But you are correct for large shields you would not be able to wear it and fire, is this what I should do? Perhaps I should just make a severe speed of bow firing penalty (Like armour gives for Magic) or even use the same code for bows. Thanks for the replys, dnh (AKA Darth_bob and Carrot)