[CF-Devel] Non-cumulative spells

[Michael Toennies]

Hi

Hm, i think this is a general problem.

Its the question how we play. More general characters, like we
yet have (my barbarian is also a great wizard), or should we disallow
a fighter class char wizard spells and should we drop wizards to <25 str?
(ok, thats only the last step, but should we go for more difference in
this elemetal game parts?)

I like both ideas, but i must warn you!
I played both system (Ultima Online is like CF, Everquest is WHOLE different
with many classes). The game play is absolut different. Really different
classes
like in Everquest have some very bad drawbacks.

You can say, for real different chars you need
- a much bigger party system,
- much more easier fighting system (we have >20 attacktypes, PR and much
more, this
  all must fit for different classes)
- a lot of player!!!!
  The fighters, wizards and priests must build groups. You need a bunch of
all to
  server the players.
- and your game play is often broken
  (Simple: You can't do some things, so you can't play them)

  In Everquest, you break in dungeons in big groups, then you make a camp
there,
  the monks run out to bring monsters in, and when the monsters appear, the
fighters
  hack them. Then the priests come out healing, then monks run out again
(they are fast and can
  hide, but they haven't the equipment to hack the monsters).

Everquest has still some problems with his system. Some chars get weaker in
higher classes,
after month of playing. This has upset many players. Also, the party gaming
is NOT as funny
as it sounds on paper.

Most times, you stay around and wait. Wait for others, wait for chatting,
wait for monsters.
Is real boring. CF has some more "speed" in his game. That a point i really
like on CF.

I find, we should ON NO PRIZE not cut the way we plays char in CF yet: as
multitalent chars,
which starts from different edges, with different "high" skills, but and
everage
"bottom skill level" for all skills.

This system has some REAL big advantages. What most of you very experienced
players are totaly clear,
HOW you play a babarian, how you play a wizard and how you make a barbarian
yet to a big wizard or
a wizard to a big fighter - new player, medium experienced player will need
MONTH only for knowing the
way to play it!!

And its a big fun, to find out, how you tweak your wizard with spells to a
good fighter.

Remember, its NOT easy! Its hard! Remember the fun you have and the brain
work you need to do it:

Big hole with big nastys in it, no easy way to cast them out. You have to
melee.

You must equip different armor /weapons first. Then adjust rings, amulets.
Start casting the power spells, prepare the priest spells... Run in, hack
the monster. Fast, fast,
your spells start to wear of.. Oh! a blue one. Whats your lighting PR?  time
is short, now we must run
back... Safe.... ok... again in or should i change back to full wizard mode
and use fire?
Hm, lets look for my priest level... 13... hm, i can use the avatar....

THATS fun.

Now what can a wizard as "shut off class" do?
He looks over his spells. He don't think about melee or avatars - he is a
wizard not a fighter or
priest. He cast his spells. Damn, it don't work.. chat mode: "shout any
fighter online? i need some
help!"... Hm, 5h in the morning, no one here.... well, lets skip this
dungeon...

Ok, iam not a real fair, but thats really the general path both ideas go.

Thats my opinion:

Make more general chars! Make a kind of proto char, which can use melee,
wizard and priest
or any other "main game part" on a similiar level. ( in fact, we have this
yet)

Now give every one of them a special ability, which change the way you can
solve a
set of problems.
Then let them start near different pools, like we do it yet: a wizard starts
weak in melee
but strong in magic, priest: strong in priest/wiz lower in melee... and so
on.

Then design the chars in a way you got a kind of "meeting" level, where all
chars have nearly
same powers. Which different  tools, but a wizard should be able to boost
himself on fighter level
and a fighter should be can use magic on very high level.

Why? Well, if this level is 60 or so, you have played for month. There must
be an end of powers,
a char can get. There is sense to build a super quest, where you first must
collect the super power
item/ability/spell at level 75, thats ok.

But you can't bring in with level 50 or so new abilitys and spells which
change them the way you play
the whole game. You must adjust all quest for all kind of chars. And all
abilitys. This will be
a desinger nightmare then.

At a point, you will try out a different char. starting as barbarian - or
using the special chars we have.
Q., Fireborn and Monk for example. Thats the reason, why we have it!
Hack, to play all this without make different char system will bind you for
over a year to CF,
when you don't play 8 hours a day.

MichToen

>
     
      Pertti Karppinen wrote:
     
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      > Non cumulative spells (can only be casted once, or atleast has effect
     
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      > only on first cast) are ok and needed for protection type spells.
     
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      > BUT: strength and armour spells allowed a big wizard to get his strength
     
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      > up to 30 and advance his/her phys skill. It seems this is no longer
     
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      > possible (atleats on MiDS server).
     
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      This is no longer possible indeed, and for good reason IMHO:
     
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      Pushing Str to 30 and armour to 99% doesn't seem acceptible to me,
     
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      especially not for wizards.
     
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      > As wizards have low strength by nature, lot of
     
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      > areas become unsolveable to wizards, or really really really hard to
     
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      > solve, if you cannot pump up your strength.
     
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      You can still pump your strenght via equipment: like rings, enchanted
     
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      weapons etc.. - temporarily, when you need it. Do you think that wearing
     
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      all those wizard rings/amulets/robes PLUS boosting Str 30/ armour 99% is
     
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      fair?
     
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      I think that isn't being a wizard, that is being a wizard and a babarian
     
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      all at once.
     
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      Wizards are supposed to rely on spellcraft rather than physical power,
     
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      at least for lower levels. Lateron, a character can easily advance in
     
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      any skill.
     
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      A babarian doesn't have the ability to boost his Wis/Pow either,
     
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      although he could make good use of that.
     
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      > And as people tend to play crossfire unparty-like, there's often no help
     
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      > from barbarians available.
     
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      > As there's no such area as "no phys area" as there is "no spells area"
     
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      magic
     
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      > casters are have a huge disadvantage with this modification.
     
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      It is true that most people play unparty-like. That is the reason why we
     
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      try not to put any restrictions on character development.
     
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      Still, after all, there is a point where I agree with you: For a long
     
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      time (this is unrelated to PR) I always had the feeling that melee-style
     
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      characters have a little bit of an easier time than spellcasters. But the
     
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      question is: How can we help the wizard without helping fighters at the
     
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      same time? Non-cumulative strenght/armour spells don't look like a good
     
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      solution to me. Most fighters use protection/stats spells as
     
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      well, at lower
     
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      magic levels of course - but usually that doesn't even make much
     
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      difference.
     
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      We could, for example, make those spell-effects more level-dependant.
     
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      But then again we would not help the low-level wizards although they
     
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      would need it most.
     
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      On the other hand, due to PR, there *are* situations in the game where
     
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      wizards are better off than fighters (though maybe more rare than
     
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      vice versa). Killing with spellcraft from distance comes in very handy
     
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      when you lack the resistances for melee. For example: At overall lvl 50
     
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      I did not manage to kill a hoard of anchient blue dragons (elec) by other
     
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      means than fire spells.
     
     
With priest level 10-15, a avatar of sorig, you can.
Ok, we can say: See, thats a broken rule, now everyone can kill...
Nope. I need month of month to find out all this tricks. Also, when you
tell it minor experienced players, the game play is often to complex for
them.

Just to get the skills to play this, is a game in the game.