[CF-Devel] Re: [CF List] Too stupid...

[Mark Wedel]

Chachkoff Yann wrote:
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      Some remarks...
     
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      >The behavior for the leveled weapons already exists, one of the random
     
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      >quests has an item Ruggillis Wisker or something and it has been improved
     
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      >127 times so no player char can wear it.
     
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      I didn't knew that item. I'll check it.
     
     
 As a note, that current code probalby only works for weapons.  I'm pretty sure
it uses some field for the number of times that is has been improved that is
actually used for something else in armor (like last_sp or something).  As it is
now, IMO using that overloaded field is not a good idea in general, but was
standard practice in crossfire for a long time.

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      Experience: Knowledge acquired by a long training and observation (Larousse).
     
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      So I think partial improvement is not that stupid. And it already exist in
     
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      some way in the game with spells: spells are getting stronger with your
     
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      experience; drop a level and you may become unable to cast some spells. If
     
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      you accept the idea for some abilities, why can't you accept it for others ?
     
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      It is of course only my opinion; but if you ever read Fantasy or played
     
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      "table" RPG (not computer RPG), you certainly already encountered such
     
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      behaviour.
     
     
 One difference here is that spell casting is more active, while using equipment
is more passive.  Ie, you drop a level and try to cast a spell and it will
plainly tell you that is beyond a level.  Use some level equipment items, drop a
level, and you may quickly die again, not realizing several of your items are
now longer as good as they were.

 I've played table RPG's many times, and they have one great advantage of
computer RPG's: a real life GM who can make various decisions about balance.  IF
you had a real life human OK'ing giving of artifacts to other characters, we
would have no problem right now.

 My general approach to most problems is start with the simple solution, and go
onward from there if it doesn't work.  Remember, the main problem we are trying
to address here is artifacts being given to low level players.  Even doing
minimum level won't fix this problem completely (the high level people could
instead give money, potions, or other non level dependent stuff).

 For many items, a simple minimum level probably works fine - the ring of high
magic might be such a case - until character is appropriate level, there would
still be plenty of non level rings which could help ie (magic +1 or int+1 rings
would still be available at 0 level).  Other things like dragon shield/armor may
not be worth doing incrementally, simply because to do so woudl make the item
worse than standard things, and create more confusion.  Generally speaking,
probably the lower the level of the artifact, the less worth while to do it
incrementally (first because player will get to appropriate level pretty
quickly, and second because with a small total level range, bonuses and rounding
would change pretty rapidly or not be nearly as worthwhile).


 As for money having no meaning, this gets trickier to fix.
At one point, it was easier to spend money on really good items in shops.  But
it has been decided that most the really good stuff should be find in the
'wild', and not in shops, so that reduces usefulness of money.  Back when stat
potions where in shops, that used to be the typical consumer of money, first to
max out the stats of the character, and then to start stocking up to make your
improved weapon.

 So probably after level 10-15, there is nothing good in shops to buy, and of
course you still pile up loot and thus money.

 The idea of building castles or whatever could be some use for money.  You
could also add recurring costs - your apartment is really a rental, so you need
to periodically pay to keep access to it, and pay even more if you've extended
it.  But dealing with money is tricky - there is a very fine line of the
characters being perpetually poor (not enough money to cover extensives) and
players getting really rich.  And some also goes into player style.  Someone
could be perpetually poor if they are quickly going through dungeons and not
collecting much, but another character in the same dungeon who more carefully
goes through, collects magical stuff, alchemies other, etc, will certainly be
richer in terms of gold, but maybe not exp.