Guilds & Quests, was Re: [CF List] Too stupid...

[Mark Wedel]

Changed subject to reflect new discussion, as I don't think
this is really related to artifact weapons.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Chachkoff Yann wrote:
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      Real guilds are something the players should make by themselves and should
     
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      not become a development issue. The problem is that guilds are currently
     
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      unneeded because:
     
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      - Too few players;
     
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      - Too few "multiplayer" quests (nearly all quests can be achieved alone).
     
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      Promoting a guild system would be useless without quests to support them.
     
     
 I think this really depends on what you want the guilds to be doing.
IMO, guilds could still provide the following even for single players:
1) Supply of certain good items (fighter guild may always have +2 full helms,
	+2 high shields, etc in stock in their private store)

2) Ability to learn advanced skills.  This would require changing the skill
	stuff some, but maybe at level 10 you can learn 'melee weapons 2'
	which gives an extra wc bonus, at level 20 you can learn
	melee weapons 3, which gives extra dam or speedup, etc.  These
	skills would replace the one before it.  This would allow more
	differentiation between classes (as you can only belong to a guild
	of your class, so a wizard could not go to the fighter guild to get
	those).  IMO this would also help with balance - if certain classes
	are seen to be too weak at certain levels in the game, make the
	appropriate advanced skills for that level

3) Sources of information.  The alchemist guild should have all recipes
	on file, but maybe you need to be level 30 to get access to the
	most advanced ones.  Likewise, the alchemist shop may have a
	supply store as well as laboratory so that people can make
	recipes.

 Also, instead of using levels for various classifications, doing certain
quests could be used.  So at the fighters guild, killing a certain creature
may be enough to get you that advancement.  Really, probably a mix of both
of these is best, withh the level requirement being a little higher than
character would need to be do to it on their own (Repeat players may not
want to do some quest for the 5th time they've played the game, and instead
do some other maps, but still want that advantage).

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      Yes, but still there is one thing lacking in crossfire: good stories. Some
     
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      plots do exist (for example the story of Lord Eureka), but for most quests,
     
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      there is a dungeon "just because characters want to get artifacts". The
     
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      "backgound" stories are often too weak. The two main goals now are:
     
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      - Doing the level to get experience points;
     
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      - Doing the level to get a powerful item.
     
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      For me, it should be something like:
     
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      - Saving the Princess because I'm a Noble Knight;
     
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      - Getting that Magical Sword to save the world of the Hrontar the Black;
     
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      - Finding the Lost Key of Mandor to become rich, rich, rich !
     
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      This can be done without writing code - This is a work for scenarists.
     
     
I think the big thing missing in the reward outside the quest.  Now
the random map quests that Peter did give you a reward when you get back
to town, but most other ones (pirate quest or wizard tower
in navar city, or 'quests' referred to from people in the tavern) don't
give you anything when you complete it, other than what you get along
the way.  Given this, there is not necessarily a big reason to do
a certain quest, vs just going someplace that has the right monster for
your character to gain exp.

 Giving exp on completion of a quest is probably a good thing.  That
reduces the need for the maps to be so chock full of monsters, as now
the characters can get exp in ways other than killing things (ok, there
are some other ways right now, like using skills to identify items
or other skills usage), but by and large, the big bulk of exp comes
from killing stuff.  I know from commercial games played that a good
portion (at least 25%) comes from bonus for actual completion of the
quest.

 The one problem here is that with crossfire it gets trickier - if
you give bonus exp, what skill category(s) does it go into?  If it
just adds to the total exp, that becomes less useful, as most of what
makes the character powerful is the actual skill levels, and not
overall level.