[CF List] Leveling at high level

Peter Mardahl peterm at tonks.EECS.Berkeley.EDU
Thu Aug 29 11:08:41 CDT 2002


Andy says that levelling for high level players
takes "a constant amount of experience" after level 50 or so.

Is this true?

I thought monsters were worth less the higher your level.
So, say, you murder a dragon at level 20:  100000 exp
at level 108:  3000 exp

So you've got to murder 10x as many dragons at high level (100)
to level than at say, level 50.

Is this true or not?

PeterM

>
     
      Hm... some very interesting topics
     
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      in reply to Mark W.:
     
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     >
     
      > > > But is weight of the money any real issue?
     
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      > [...]
     
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      > But are gems really that hard to use?
     
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      I think weight of money is okay. The problem with gems is
     
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      they are hardly better than money. AFAIK, all standard gems
     
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      are in the price range of 3-5 platinums.
     
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      The special gems like "flawless beauty" cannot be used
     
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      for most game-mechanisms (e.g. altars) because their
     
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      special title is not recognized. 
     
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      Hence, two things could be done for gems:
     
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      1. make standard gems cost more (of course adjusting
     
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         the amount of random-gems in the process)
     
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      2. make titles be recognizeable by altars and exchange tables
     
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     >
     
      > > I said the rent should have to be paid every time
     
     >
     
      > > a player logs in,
     
     >
     
     
     >
     
      I think banking-systems, apartment/town fees, gambling and
     
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      second-hand stores, those are cool ideas but they will gain
     
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      only a small deal for the money problem. 
     
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      Mainly, it is hard to scale such fees for player levels
     
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      properly. Most likely it would add too much trouble for
     
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      lowlevels while leaving high levels without any concern.
     
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      (This tends to happen for a lot of things)
     
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      > One question may be - what do people in general think of 
     
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      > having some of the random artifacts available for purchase?
     
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      > I know with the removal of potions, the idea is that we
     
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      > wanted players to have to go out and find items. That is 
     
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      > now the case, but doesn't leave anything to be bought.
     
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      Please don't put artifacts for sale.
     
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      We have removed potions from shops, because it was obvious
     
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      that anything which is available for money is like
     
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      available for free above level 20.
     
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      If we put artifacts for sale, I believe we would worsen
     
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      the effects of the broken economy.
     
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      > The biggest problem is just the large amount of money 
     
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      > available at higher levels.  That is what really needs
     
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      > to get cut down.
     
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     >
     
      Come to think of this, I believe the main "switch" in a
     
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      players life is the point when he starts to kill titans
     
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      and dragons. Before he can do that (<= lvl 20), he hardly
     
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      has any money. After he can do it (>= lvl 20) he can get
     
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      all the money he can carry, anytime, anyplace.
     
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      Maybe we could improve the system a little by just
     
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      reducing the average drop-value for red/elec dragons,
     
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      titans and big wizards?
     
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     >
     
      > Note that one of my long range goals would be to change the 
     
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      > game/movement so to go to wolfsburg, you would buy a boat
     
     >
     
      > and have to navigate it yourself to wherever you want to
     
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      > go. Thus, you now have some real travel time, and you 
     
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      > would chew up money buying a boat.  Some of the very old 
     
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      > ultima games did this.
     
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      Yes, I also greatly prefer the idea of "adventurous travel" 
     
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      versus "instant travel" with teleporters.
     
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      > > You could have a set of statues that could be modified for 
     
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      > > a price. Every time someone makes a change, the price to
     
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      > > change that one again goes up.
     
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      > [...]
     
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      > some of these points requires the players to care.  Eg, 
     
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      > if I don't care about having a statue with my name on it,
     
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      > that doesn't suck any money out of me. 
     
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      I believe you underestimate the value of pride. :-)
     
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      The statue-bidding idea seems quite exciting to me.
     
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      At least I've heard of people who played night-and-day
     
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      just to beat someone else's highscore! ;-)
     
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      > > Item repair is a great idea - it works well for
     
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      > > another game I know of.
     
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      > 
     
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      > I think we are somewhat agreed that this is a good
     
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      > starting point. We should really do this first and see
     
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      > how it effects cash for the players.
     
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      Yeah, I believe that would really have a good effect
     
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      on economy. It would greatly help with balance too.
     
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      And there's not much to loose or fear about it.
     
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      > > Training is an old standard - you pay to level up once
     
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      > > you got the xp. Would be tricky to implement perhaps.
     
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      Hm yes, why not. This could be another good way to
     
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      leech money out of those high-level pockets.
     
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      > > [...] having a player get to level 99 in three months
     
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      > > is aceptable for a singleplayer campain type game but it
     
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      > > pretty bad if you are shooting for a multiplayer persistant
     
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      > > type world game.
     
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      >
     
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      > Are people getting to level 110 because monsters give too 
     
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      > much exp?  Or is it they can just go to the right dungeons
     
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      > where there are 300 of the right monster?
     
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      This is indeed another one of the "root problems" in CF.
     
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      Guess I already said that, but the leveling problem is
     
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      definitly caused by the lack of experience gaps between
     
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      higher levels.
     
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      After level 50, the amount of exp you need to gain levels
     
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      does not rise anymore. It stays around 3 million, which is
     
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      FAR too low. In other words, once a player reached level 50,
     
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      he can gain any other level in a linear amount of time.
     
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      But the penalty for dying does not increase either.
     
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      So in fact, it is even worse: The player needs less time to
     
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      gain additional levels because he gets stronger in the process.
     
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      Obviously, increasing the experience gaps between levels
     
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      would be a good thing to do.
     
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      However, I believe one of the underlying problems here are
     
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      limitations in length of variables, or not?
     
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      Would it be possible to just raise the amounts of exp without
     
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      running into an overflow?
     
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      Andreas
     
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