[CF-Devel] Materials (was FW: DIAMONDS)

[crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com]

Tim Rightnour wrote:
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      On 20-Apr-03 Mark Wedel wrote:
     
     
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      This was done because I presume if you are making a "gold sword" specifically,
     
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      you have allready taken into account the effect of the gold on the sword.  It
     
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      would be silly to wieght adjust all the gold nuggests based on the iron->gold
     
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      adjustment.. they were allready the right weight for gold.
     
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      The simple solution is.. if it's made of mithril.. adjust for it when you make
     
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      the object.
     
     
  Yeah, but that is easier said than done. (well, OK, it isn't really hard, but 
requires a map maker to read the materials file, see the adjustments to make, 
calculate those adjustments, etc).

  OTOH, as Todd points out, this is no different than the random artifact code. 
  If you want to make a dagger of Gnarg, you can, but you need to do the 
adjustments on your own.

  IMO, neither of these are actually good solutions - making maps should 
generally be easy, and not require map makers to read the materials and 
artifacts file.


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      My concept was to make a magical device.. like a big forge of some sort.  You
     
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      can only make objects from a raw material (type 73 INORGANIC).  If you had
     
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      collected a pile of oak spears.. you put them in the device, and pay your
     
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      refinery fee, and poof, out pops a given amount of oak boards.  The given
     
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      amount could be fiddled with.. for example, you could pay extra to increase the
     
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      accuracy of the refinery, or pay the minimum, and have it give you a normal
     
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      amount.  (that being, say you put 50kg of spears into the refinery, it would
     
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      normally spit out between 1-25kg of raw oak.  you could pay more to increase
     
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      the odds, as an idea)
     
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      So yes.. a player could dump a gold armour into the refinery, but it would cost
     
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      him a bundle of money to convert it to raw gold. So there would be no monetary
     
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      benefit.
     
     
  This idea seems a little odd - in 'real life', it isn't all that difficult to 
convert gold chainmail to liquid gold.  Well, more to the point of metals, most 
likely to do anything interesting with them, your 'tools' need to be able to 
melt them, so in practice, you'd break off enough pieces of that gold armor to 
melt down to do what you want.

  However, I don't have any big issue with the above method - presuming the 
converter methods are somehow appropriate.


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      Its not unreasonable to have yew clubs.. just that it gives the dam bonus is
     
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      possibly wrong.  This could be solved with the current system without alot of
     
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      work, and without doing something ugly.  The current materials file could
     
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      easily be extended to have something similar to the only-for in archetypes. 
     
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      Whatever way you wanted to go with it..
     
     
  I agree that yew clubs isn't wrong, its just doing the extra damage is a bit 
odd.  And I'm sure people could come up with other examples (would a steel 
hammer really be much better than a magic hammer, for example?  Given the 
material has it lighter, it should probably do less damage in fact).  These are 
minor issues, but just oddities which sort of bug me.


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      IMHO it is counter-intuitive to have the system apply bonuses to items I have
     
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      manually set to being of a specific material.  If I make a mithril magic
     
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      sword.. I don't want the system auto-changing that on me.  The mapmaker should
     
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      know what he is doing.
     
     
  Well, yes and no.  If the map maker knows sufficiently what he is doing, he 
can then clear the flag which says 'adjust this items bonuses based on material 
at load time'.  If, however, the hope is you have non developers making maps, it 
should be easy for them to make mithril shields and not need to read the 
materials file to see what the appropriate bonuses/penalties are (and in fact, 
since the server isn't a required part of making maps, very possible map makers 
won't even know what this is).

  Now I suppose if materials are turned into archetypes, the editor could be a 
little more clever about this and apply the template on its own.  I'd personally 
consider it a low priority for the editor to be able to parse yet another file 
format (materials)


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      I disagree there.  My idea for "mining" was that we set the materialtype for
     
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      forests to "wood", so it randomizes wood types for the forests.  You could go
     
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      to an area of forest, and harvest it for awhile, and get out the type of wood
     
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      that forest was made of.
     
     
  IMO, this might make things too easy.  Given the big world map, even with the 
rare woods, you'd probably be able to find them with just a little bit of 
hunting (I mean there are forests out there with hundred of spaces of trees all 
together).

  I don't actually have a good solution to this, however.  It makes some amount 
of sense that type of trees grow based on where they are.  However, the counter 
is that if out of that 100 spaces, there is only 1 or 2 which are different, 
that doesn't become very interesting to play.



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