[CF-Devel] quest exp rewards (RE: monsters, ...)

[crossfire-devel-admin at archives.real-time.com]

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      As far as plugins go, to me, it makes the most sense to have basic 
     
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      functionality within the server code itself, and use plugins to expand 
     
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      the functionality of the object. 
     
     


I think I said this... I am pretty sure that is what I was saying, I 
don't think I said dont't make a an xp giver object and I certainly 
never said let's *not* make xp awards...
I did say that if you wanted to try this you could do it now... maybe I 
shouldn't say stuff like that.

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       In this case, the object actually isn't that complicated - has 
     
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      walk_on/fly_on set, in the 'skill' field contains the name of the 
     
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      skill to add the exp to, and the exp field contains how much exp to 
     
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      reward.  Some other flag can have something like 'player can't use 
     
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      this if force object is in inventory, and we add one if player doesn't 
     
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      have force object'. 
     
     

I would think a field for the desired skill  to apply the xp to and a 
connect field to trigger it would be most flexable, no?  If you decide 
not to use force objects to track usage and want to do something 
different then you can make it.

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       Now the plugin can expand that - do other things, do other checks 
     
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      (if, for example, the quest is to clear an area, then perhaps the 
     
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      plugin would go look and make sure there aren't any monsters in the 
     
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      area). 
     
     
yup, it can.

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       To me, we shouldn't expect most map makers to write plugin scripts.  
     
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      Rather, we should provide the basic functionality in objects in the 
     
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      came, which the editor make easy to modify, and which are readily 
     
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      available.  If the map maker has the skill and want to make plugin 
     
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      scripts, great.
     
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       But as I've said before, the code has to be someplace - whether it is 
     
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      C code in the server, or python code in the plugin.  IMO, basic 
     
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      functionality should be in the C code.
     
     
yes, you can do a number of things like this - this is what I was 
saying...  not 'only use the plugin' or 'lets make it hard to use and 
force people to use the plugin.'  The code does have to be someplace - 
an arch object is a good idea - I think I said that too.

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       I don't mean to downplay the usefulness of the plugin code - there 
     
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      are lots of things where you want to do some special processing, but 
     
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      it is used in only a few places, and thus doesn't make sense to do it 
     
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      as C code - the plugin is ideal for that.  But the python code 
     
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      shouldn't replace the basic operations of the game. 
     
     

I don't think I ever said don't make this an arch, I just said make it a 
simple arch, otherwise it is not as useful - you decide to have xp 
generators only work by marker then sontime you will have to make one 
that works another way.  If you have a lot of little atomic arches like 
a list, a timer, a randomizer, a xp generator, a monster generator... 
you can combine them to make bigger things *or* use them with the 
plugin.  Make the xp generator work by connect.  If you want a trigger 
that looks for a force in a player  - get a different arch that detects 
player forces and then connect them - voila there's your force object 
controlled xp generator! What you want to make one connected to a altar? 
- ok there you go hook this to your altar...

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      The other fact of the matter is that I'm sure the C code is _a lot_ 
     
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      faster than the python code.  This isn't a big deal right now, and 
     
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      probably isn't a big deal for most scripts, but if using scripts for 
     
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      common objects became to commonplace, we'd then probably start looking 
     
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      at performance at that point and start implementing more of it in C 
     
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      anyways.
     
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      I also don't think the basis of 'using plugins would be hard, thus we 
     
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      don't have to worry about mapmakers abusing it' is quite the right 
     
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      approach.  If it is too hard, no one would use it at all, and we'd 
     
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      have the same type of maps we have right now.  IMO, keeping good maps 
     
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      is more an issue of players/other developers reviewing the maps, 
     
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      saying they are good/map, making changes, and whatnot.  I have a 
     
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      feeling a good number of 'bad' maps are not as much because the map 
     
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      maker didn't know what they were doing - they almost certainly did 
     
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      when they put that mega weapon there or whatever - they just thought 
     
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      it'd be cool or whatever else.  If plugins are used, the same thing 
     
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      could happen, and now you also have to start reviewing the plugins 
     
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      that are submitted (what exactly is this plugin doing?  Does it make 
     
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      sense, is it abusive, etc).
     
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     Where does all this stuff come from anyway?  I am disparing from writing 
to this list anymore* - I can't say the sky is blue without hearing back 
that I am somehow against the idea of the sky and that in C it is bluer. 

Think I am being unreasonable? Here is what I actually said: "One of the 
reasons that there is so much treasure abuse is the fact that it is 
easly to drop big items onto the map and not so easy to create 
safeguards for them. This will also occur with an xp generator - good 
maps will make good use of it and bad maps will make abuse of it. This 
won't go away using scripting, but it might be easier to be more flexable."

- didn't say lets take the PERL aproach and make map making harder, I 
didn't say map makers are stupid, I didn't say it wouldn't happen using 
the plugin too.  I just said it is easy to put in items and hard to 
control access to them...

If you want me, I'l be hanging around the arches mumbling bad words.


*Heheheh, you should be so lucky.


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