[crossfire] Player creation

[Mark Wedel]

David Delbecq wrote:
> I hope am not raising back an already discussed subject. I came acrros 
> this wiki page:
> 
> http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/dev_todo:char_creation

  Going to respond here, as I don't think using the wiki as a discussion forum 
works out very well.


> If i remember well, crossfire 2 protocol is not mandated to stay 
> compatible with old clients, for this i didn't take into consideration 
> backward compatibility with old "HallOfSelection". However, that should 
> not make old players unuseable, just differently created.

  Correct - protocol incompatibility is allowed.  And my personal thought is 
CF2.0 will/should basically require new characters.  If the rebalance changes 
and different spell skills I'm working with come to fruition, it may not be 
practical (or fair) to use old characters.

  Some specific questions/notes:


 >List of basic informations
 >  How much stat point to distribute
 > eventually how much credit point to distribute in packs

  Can you clarify what you mean by credit point to distribute in packs?  From 
reading everything, it sort of sounds like you envision a scheme where players 
get say 200 points, and use that for stats, classes, races, and perhaps even 
extending it to better equipment (desirable races/classes may cost points, while 
most don't cost anything)

  While that is a reasonable thing to have, I'd think we have to think more 
about practical implications of that - right now, ideally all races & classes 
are balanced (although realistically, probably not) - a complication in trying 
to add costs to some is short term vs long term advantage.  If a class or race 
is superior, starting at level 1, and that superiority lasts through level 100, 
some extra cost at startup probably isn't a good enough way to balance it.

  This isn't really a comment on your proposal, but just general food for 
thought and races & classes - better races or classes need to be balanced in 
some other way (exp gain penalty most likely) if they are better.


 >      Base Max and Min of each stat
 >      eventually how much stat point at max you can spend, for each stat 
(could prevent unbalanced/unplayable characters)

  A question might be whether costs are linear, or really high stats cost more. 
  My personal inclination is costs are linear (a 19 stat costs 19 points, a 3 
stat costs 3 points).  And while there may be reason to limit what characters 
can do for balance reasons, I'm not sure if it should be done for playability 
reason.  A character with a 3 strength is likely unplayable, but if someone 
really wants to try that, I say let them try.

  The extreme opposite directions, which maybe is presented for newbie players, 
is player just chooses their race & class, and client (or server maybe) figures 
out what stats the character should have are.  For example, you choose barbarian 
- in that case, basically put max value in str, dex, con, min value in wis, pow, 
int, and maybe something in the middle in cha (cha really isn't used much, so 
could also be min value)

  The idea of choosing starting equipment packs is a good one, but probably 
needs some extra support or something - I'd think that ideally you want to 
provide some information on it in text form, and not a simple list that is 
derived from a treasure list.


---
  As a note, when I originally thought of this, I wasn't thinking about changing 
the overall system much, but rather just how it is done.  Main difference is set 
of points (and not random rolls) to choose stats, but beyond that, the mechanism 
for race and class adjustments remain the same - after adjustment, no stat can 
be below 1, and the max for any stat is 20 + race adjustment (+ class 
adjustment?  Not sure if that is factored in or not).  I sort of envisioned a 
mini spreadsheet, something like:

Stat  Base   Race Adj  Class Adj   Tot
Str    14      +2        +2        18
Int     3      0         -4        -1 (in red, to denote illegal value)

  And so on

  That sort of covers the issue of min and max stats.  Right now, there is no 
idea of a max stat, other than that derived from adjustments.  Now it may be we 
want to separate those (a fighter gets a -2 pow, yet his max pow is still 20), 
but that isn't there right now.  Hard limits could be put in - in that case, 
however, I'd think the lowest limit of either class or race would need to apply.

  But my real thought is that that class really shouldn't affect max stats.  It 
makes some sense to adjust starting stats (a character trained as a wizard 
probably has a better pow than someone not, through years of apprenticeship), 
but races make more sense.  But there has also been some talk of redoing stats 
all together (make max stat 50 or something) - in that case, racial maxes may be 
in the 25-35 range, with 30 being average (for humans), yet starting characters 
can put at most 20 points into a stat, and thus race & class bonuses boost it up 
higher.

  It may be we need to think more about what to do regarding classes, races, and 
stats, before looking to much into how to create them, as some of those 
decisions may affect what information is actually relevant and what isn't.