[crossfire] GTK V2 client default layout and map size

[Mark Wedel]

Raphaël Quinet wrote:
ther tabs, so that's why I still prefer the v2 layout.
> 
> I think that before we try to pick the "best layout", there are two things
> that should be investigated:
> 1) What information is important to the players?  What should always be
>    visible on the screen and what can be toggled in/out of view using tabs or
>    using any other appropriate mechanism?  I would like to have a discussion
>    on what we need to show before having a discussion about how it should be
>    shown.
> 2) Is it possible to make the layout more flexible?  Instead of having to
>    select among a predefined set of layouts, could we find a way to provide a
>    good default layout while still allowing the user to change it easily?

  Agree on both points.  There may also be other things that make the client 
easier to use.  Some of how the client works dates all the way back to it just 
be X11, where some more complicated things would have been very hard to do, but 
are quite easy to do with the widgets provided by GTK.


>>   A better approach may be to have a basic configuration program (or window) 
>> that is used first time client is run by user (no .crossfire file).  A fair 
>> number of commercial games use that approach - configure the display 
>> resolution/quality you want to use, configure sound, etc.
> 
> This is not an ideal approach because it forces to to select (automatically
> or via some configuration program) among a set of predefined layouts and
> maybe none of them is perfect for you.  Instead, I would prefer to start with
> a good layout that can work well at low resolutions (a 2-columns layout) and
> then allow the user to add or remove a third column at any time and pick the
> tabs that should be in that column.

  Yes, that is a better solution.  I guess it depends on how much work it is to do.

  One nice thing right now is that all the layout work is done in glade.  This 
makes it very easy to try different things, but also makes it very easy to add 
onto the layout.  So while things could be done better, I'd want to make sure we 
don't drift away from also being able to manage the layouts within glade. 
Having thousands of lines of handwritten code to handle ideal layouts may be 
nice from an end user perspective, but starts to get really unmanagable from a 
developer perspective.

  At the same time, the first time a person runs the client, popping up some 
config options may still not be a bad thing, as right now, for lots of the 
config options, the client chooses defaults which may not be ideal.


> A column layout might be nice for the stats.  But regarding the point 1) that
> I mentioned above, I would be interested in a discussion about what we
> consider to be the most important information.  Besides the map, messages and
> inventory, I would consider the following information to be important
> especially during combat and I would like a layout that allows me to see all
> of these things at the same time:

  I'd make some adjustments even on those key points - inventory can/should be 
done better.  Its been discussed, but what is really needed is ability to make 
up a custom list of objects I care about.  In combat, there are probably less 
than 20 items I really need to see in my inventory - things like certain scrolls 
and potions, and maybe a few different weapons.  I don't need to see all my 
items, and in fact, seeing all my items often makes it difficult to get to the 
ones I really need.

> 
> Most important (sorted by order of importance):
>   - HP/SP/Gr/Food bars
>   - range (current spell or bow) - important if I have the wrong thing active
>     and I am wondering why the monsters around me are not harmed
>   - protections (percentages for all current protections, armor) - important
>     especially when they change because I have been hit or a spell expires.

  Pretty much agree.  But I also think a better way to manage the protections is 
needed.  While I want to be able to see them, being able to easily notice that 
my resist fire has gone from 90 to 20 may be difficult.

  Ideally something like a spell monitor would be nice - protections on my 
character are almost certainly controlled by various potions the character 
drinks.  Because the duration of these potions can not really change, it is a 
fairly simple matter for the server to inform the client that 'Joe drank a 
potion of fire resistance, it will last for 30 seconds'.  Clearly it would be 
done in a more concise term than that, but you get the point.

  So maybe some space in the statbar area could be used for this.  A simple 
solution would be to use different icons for the different resistances/spell 
effects, and the client draw a little stat along with the icon, so one can see 
how much time is left on the spell.

>   - AC
>   - damage
>   - speed
>   - weapon speed
>   - WC

  While the above are handy, they also typically are not things that change in 
combat, so I don't really need to see them in a glance.  At some point, less may 
be more - show me the data I care about, and don't show me other data, even if 
there is space for it, because it can then become harder to pick out the data I 
do care about.

> 
> Less important (not important during combat, can be "tabbed away"):
>   - stats (Str, Dex, Con, ...)
>   - experience
>   - level
>   - skills and experience in each skill
>   - character name

  True for all of those.  At one point, I suggested a window could be made for 
skill experience (name, status bar to indicate progress to next level) - given 
the number of skills, there is really no way any layout can easily define them.

  A nice effect of a window is that it can be made persistent if I have enough 
screen real estate.


  Last note, unrelated to layout, but related to usability, is that inventory 
control should really get an overhaul - in addition to a 'favorites' list, the 
fact that there are various shift/control left/right click combos to do certain 
things is just insane.  My suggestion is left click examine, middle click apply, 
right click brings up menu with all sorts of other options (lock/unlock, drop, 
mark as favorite, mark as object for things like flint & steel + torch combo, 
and so on).

  Shift left-click could be drop - still not hard to drop stuff then, as you 
could keep your finger on the shift key.  And there could still be other obscure 
control/alt/whatever combos to do a lock or mark or favorite item thing quickly, 
but having that default is hardly user friendly.