[Crossfire-wiki] [Crossfire DokuWiki] page changed: user:mwedel:skill_classes

Fri Oct 14 00:26:48 CDT 2011

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Date        : 2011/10/14 00:26
User        : mwedel
Edit Summary: update skills

@@ -1,49 +1,50 @@
  ===== Skill Costs by Class =====
  
  Some things to keep in mind on the table:
  
-   * This is just a first pass - I am sure adjustments are needed.
-   * The TOTAL values for each class is really just an advisory - in practical terms, some skills are much more valuable than others, so the balance of the class as a whole is what is needed, and that may or may not correspond to actual total costs of skill points.
-   * With the above in mind, one can figure out what level a character would need to be to max at all skills - it is TOTAL * 100 (max level) / AP per level.  If AP per level is 15, then for a paladin, it would be level 1140 before they could max everything out (note that if AP are available through quests and other methods, this would be faster).
+   * Second pass has been done, but I am sure further adjustments are needed.
+   * The TOTAL values for each class is really just an advisory - in practical terms, some skills are much more valuable than others, so the balance of the class as a whole is what is needed, and that may or may not correspond to actual total costs of skill points.  However, just as a starting point, I tried to make all the values the same - might as well start with something that is at least somewhat balanced.
+   * With the above in mind, one can figure out what level a character would need to be to max at all skills - it is TOTAL * 100 (max level) / AP per level.  If AP per level is 20, then for most classes, it would be level 805 before they could max everything out (note that if AP are available through quests and other methods, this would be faster).  Note that I do not see it as in intention for a single character to maximize every skill - while possible, the player is probably better off playing multiple characters.  To maximize every skill assuming a best cast scenario (choose classes with 3 point cost, and have no overlap), it would still be 375 total character levels.
    * On my other page, I had mentioned that skill levels could be up to character level * 2.  I'm not 100% sure that is good - it means that at level 50, a character is no longer improving his core skills, and is instead now focusing on other secondary skills.  But the counter to that is that if skill level is limited to character level, then starting at level one, a character is likely to be spending points on secondary skills because there is nothing better to spend it on.
    * Given the costs below, I'm thinking 20 AP/level may be about right.  That allows a character to keep 3+ 3 point skills at maximum level (6 points/skill, 3 skills = 18 points, with 2 points left over).  For a mage, this means they could keep one spell skill maximum,  and the other 3 at current level, but more than likely, they might focus on 2 skills, put some points in dodge.
    * One of the principle ideas behind this is that it gives the players choices and they have to make decisions.  However, that only holds true so long as AP are limited - if you get 100 AP/level, one then has pretty much enough points to max out all your class skills, so no real decision there.
-   * Some of the basis on cost was to make those decisions a little harder - cheapest skill be 3, most expensive being 9, with most in between.  A knight can increase spellcasting skills - it is costly, almost 3 times as much as their weapon skills, but if 15 AP/level is the number chosen, if they chose to increase nothing else, they could increase a wizard skill by almost 2 levels - that might be worth it.  If the costs were more widely varied - say cheap skills were 1, and expensive skills 10, than with a 10:1 ratio, any improvement of other skills is much less likely to happen (with cheap skills being 1, the AP/level would also be lower)
-   * I still need to do a second pass on this chart - my first pass was figuring skill costs based on class.  Second pass would be to look at each skill and see relative costs.  For example, for Missile Weapons, a Paladin should probably not be any worse than a warlock, so one of those should get adjusted.
-   * One adjustment that I did make is to make sure that for every skill, there is at least one class that gets it at a cost of 3.
+   * Some of the basis on cost was to make those decisions a little harder - cheapest skill be 3, most expensive being 9, with most in between.  A knight can increase spellcasting skills - it is costly, almost 3 times as much as their weapon skills, but if 20 AP/level is the number chosen, if they chose to increase nothing else, they could increase a wizard skill by  2 levels - that might be worth it.  If the costs were more widely varied - say cheap skills were 1, and expensive skills 10, than with a 10:1 ratio, any improvement of other skills is much less likely to happen (with cheap skills being 1, the AP/level would also be lower)
+   * One thing that I did do is to make sure that for every skill, there is at least one class that gets it at a cost of 3.  It would be nice if more of the skills had a wider distribution between classes.  For example, for most of the mage skills, a class either knows it and get it at a cost of of 3, 4, or 5, or they don't, and the cost is 8 or 9.  Having some classes get it at 6 or 7 makes it an OK skill for the class.
    * The table below basically represents current skills in the game.  There is room for new skills - for example, a skill for each attribute with a high cost which basically increases that attribute one point.  There could also be skills for resistances, skills to just get more HP, etc.  Most of these would really be more high level skills - only after the character has maxed out most of their preferred skills would it be worthwhile to increase those.
    * Note that skills for races still need to be done, but that is a simpler table, since the number of skills per race is lot lower, and only the cost for specific skills they grant at creation time really need to be recorded.  The costs for all skills is needed on this table because one has to know how much it would cost that fighter to learn fire magic if they learn it at some point.
    * One thought is whether skill scrolls should still exist, or should characters have access to improve all skills when starting out, but given the costs, some of these are effectively never going to get improved.
+   * As a data point - with 25 skills and 161 points per class, a character that was completely equal in all skills would have each skill cost 6.44.  Even if the character was given a benefit and every skill was just 6, I think that would not be a very good class to play - it would only be worthwhile for real long term.
+   * Using point totals as a guideline (or allow custom characters) has to be carefully done.  In a min/max approach, a character could have 11 skills at cost 3, and 14 at cost 9 with a 159 total.  One would easily choose the best skills and have a class far better than any presented below, since not all skills are equal.
+ 
+ ^ Skill ^ Monk ^ Paladin ^ Priest ^ Ninja ^ Thief ^ Barbarian ^ Mage ^ Swashbuckler ^ Warlock ^ Knight ^ Devotee ^ Elemental ^  Wizard ^
+ ^Missile  Weapon ^100^5^6^4^4^3^7^4^5^3^8^7^
+ ^Sword ^100^4^8^4^4^6^9^5^4^3^8^9^
+ ^Axe ^100^4^8^9^7^3^9^6^4^3^8^9^
+ ^Blunt ^100^4^5^6^7^5^6^4^4^3^6^6^
+ ^Spear ^100^4^8^8^7^7^9^7^4^3^8^9^
+ ^Unarmed  Combat ^3^9^9^4^8^6^9^7^9^9^9^9^
+ ^Armor ^3^4^5^6^6^6^8^8^5^3^7^8^
+ ^Dodge ^3^7^8^3^3^4^5^3^5^9^4^5^
+ ^Air  Magic ^8^8^8^8^8^9^4^8^5^8^5^4^
+ ^Fire  Magic ^8^8^8^8^8^9^4^9^5^8^5^3^
+ ^Water  Magic ^8^8^8^8^8^9^4^6^5^8^5^5^
+ ^Earth  Magic ^8^8^8^8^8^9^4^8^5^8^5^4^
+ ^Divine  Magic ^5^4^3^8^8^9^8^7^9^8^4^8^
+ ^Traps ^5^9^7^4^3^6^7^6^7^8^8^7^
+ ^Thievery ^5^9^7^4^3^6^7^5^8^9^7^7^
+ ^Persuasion ^6^5^3^6^4^7^6^5^8^7^7^6^
+ ^Acrobatics ^3^7^6^5^3^4^6^4^8^9^6^6^
+ ^Literacy ^4^5^4^7^7^9^3^7^4^7^4^3^
+ ^Weaponsmith ^9^6^6^7^7^4^9^7^8^3^8^9^
+ ^Armorer ^4^6^7^7^8^7^9^7^8^3^8^9^
+ ^Jeweler ^8^7^5^7^7^7^4^7^8^9^3^4^
+ ^Alchemy ^8^8^5^7^8^9^3^8^8^9^6^4^
+ ^Bowyer ^9^7^7^7^7^5^9^6^8^3^8^9^
+ ^Thaumaturgy ^8^8^6^8^9^9^4^8^8^9^6^3^
+ ^Woodsman ^5^7^6^8^9^3^8^9^9^9^8^8^
+ ^TOTAL ^620^161^161^161^161^161^161^161^161^161^161^161^
  
- ^Skill^Monk^Paladin^Priest^Ninja^Thief^Barbarian^Mage^Swashbuckler^Warlock^Knight^Devotee^Elemental Wizard^
- ^Missile Weapon^100^6^7^4^4^3^7^4^5^3^8^7^
- ^Sword^100^4^8^4^4^6^9^5^4^3^8^9^
- ^Axe^100^4^8^6^7^3^9^5^4^3^8^9^
- ^Blunt^100^4^5^6^7^4^6^4^4^3^6^6^
- ^Spear^100^4^8^6^7^5^9^5^4^3^8^9^
- ^Unarmed Combat^3^9^9^4^6^5^9^6^9^8^9^9^
- ^Armor^3^4^5^6^7^5^8^8^4^3^7^8^
- ^Dodge^3^7^8^3^3^4^5^3^5^8^4^5^
- ^Air Magic^8^8^8^8^8^9^4^8^5^8^5^4^
- ^Fire Magic^8^8^8^8^8^9^4^8^5^8^5^3^
- ^Water Magic^8^8^8^8^8^9^4^8^5^8^5^5^
- ^Earth Magic^8^8^8^8^8^9^4^8^5^8^5^4^
- ^Divine Magic^5^4^3^8^8^8^8^8^9^8^4^8^
- ^Traps^5^9^7^4^3^6^7^6^8^7^8^7^
- ^Thievery^5^9^7^4^3^6^7^5^8^8^7^7^
- ^Singing^5^7^5^7^6^6^6^3^8^8^8^6^
- ^Acrobatics^3^7^6^4^3^4^6^3^8^8^6^6^
- ^Bargaining^7^5^3^5^4^8^7^5^7^6^6^7^
- ^Literacy^4^5^4^5^6^9^3^7^4^6^4^3^
- ^Weaponsmith^9^6^6^5^7^3^9^6^8^3^8^9^
- ^Armorer^3^6^7^7^8^7^9^7^8^3^8^9^
- ^Jeweler^8^7^5^5^4^7^4^5^8^8^3^4^
- ^Alchemy^8^9^7^6^8^9^3^6^8^8^6^5^
- ^Bowyer^9^7^7^5^6^4^9^4^8^3^8^9^
- ^Thaumaturgy^8^9^9^8^9^9^5^8^8^8^8^3^
- ^Woodsman^5^7^6^8^9^3^7^9^9^8^8^7^
- ^TOTAL^625^171^172^152^161^160^168^154^168^158^170^168^
  
  
  =====  Skill Descriptions =====
  


IP-Address  : 173.228.106.67
Old Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skill_classes?rev=1318565922
New Revision: http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:mwedel:skill_classes

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