[CF-Devel] polymorph - worst exploit ever

Mon Dec 11 05:27:32 CST 2000

Mark W. wrote:

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      If we disable polymorph on items, we might as well disable it completely.

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      If the lava slasher is a superior weapon, I would argue it should

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      have a higher value, so you could not transform it from a lesser

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      artifact into that.

A lava-slasher or a kobold-dagger are surely not worth 5.000.000 or sth.
But still I want players to solve the appropriate quests to get them.

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      But note that the way the polymorph code works (when it works properly)

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      is that such transformations would be incredibly rare.

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      Basically, it will pick one item from all the items of the same type

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      (ie, weapons) of lower value.  Being there are lots of mundane weapons

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      and relative few artifacts, the chance of it picking a better artifact

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      weapon is quite unlikely. [...]

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      So, for it to actually polymorph one artifact into another 'more

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      worthwhile' one, you basically need to find one of higher value

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      and be lucky enough that on the first try, it polymorphs into what

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      you want it to be.

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      To me, those conditions make it fairly unlikely for it to happen.

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      And if it does, I don't think its a big deal.  I find games that

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      have such little quirks more interesting.

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      Also note that the end result can only be items that is an archetype

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      (ie, part of standard distribution).  Items customized on maps can

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      never appear, except for the base type it came from.  So for example,

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      you could try to polymorph all you want, but you'll never end up with

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      any of the final weapons in the tower of demonology.

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      So as a mapmaker, this should make no difference.  The only case where

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      this could perhaps be a problem if you give out a very high valued weapon

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      that doesn't have much magic (say a jeweled sword).

Well... okay, so be it. Make your changes, and when I got the feeling it
is still possible to get a lava-slasher, wdsm or magic cloak via polymorph,
then I will simply remove those from the arches. It's only a few artifacts
that really bother me in that respect.

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      > Make all monsters above level 20 immune to polymorph.

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      I was going to look at the saving throw code and see at what

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      point monsters always make saves.

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      Another thought I had would be to not polymorph monsters whose name

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      does not match that of their archetype (in addition to other checks

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      already mentioned). In this way, most custom monsters on maps will

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      just be immune since they have non standard names.

This's a good idea. But please make sure that the success-chance
of polymorph on monsters also depends on the victim's level. At least
beyond level 30 chances should be *very very* small - pleease. =)

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      > In general I have to say I see no point in spending massive amounts

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      > of work to improve the polymorph code. [...]

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      So far, this discussion has probably taken more time than it will

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      take to implement the suggested changes to polymorph.  So these are

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      only minor changes and quick to do.

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      As per my comments under the items, I disagree on some points.

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      Crossfire can never be 100% balanced, and if it was, I think it

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      would be a very uninteresting game (100% balanced basically would

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      mean all races/classes are equal at all levels, all items are balanced

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      with respect to all others, etc).

There are certainly ways to overdo "balancing". But for CF we don't
have to fear that yet. ;)

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      There will always be some cases - using such and such a spell to kill

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      a specific monster works outstandingly well, items x,y,z are better

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      than a,b,c, and so on.

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      To me, what polymorph with the above changes will allow to happen:

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      1) You may be very lucky and be able to polymorph one artifact into

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      another. Those are likely to be such rare occurances, I don't have a

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      problem with it.

Okay, when I remove the few critical artifacts from the arches, or
maybe set them to very high value, I can live with that.

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      2) Polymorph will still be useful in some cases.  Transforming monster

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      X into monster Y to kill it/get past it seems perfectly fine. [...]

If this doesn't work on special monsters (->archname) and past victim-
level 30 chances run low, acceptable for me.

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      3) Polymorph will always be a net loss.  You may get lucky in some

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      cases and turn that ring resist poison +20 into a ring resist fire +20,

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      or turn one artifact into another, but items get consumed and turned

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      into garbage, and I don't think overall it will be a winning proposition

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      for players.  But it still will remain a nice curiosity.

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      As per another discussion (I think it was the dual weapon thread) - not

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      all weapons are useful (or the best), but I don't think that means they

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      need to be removed.  Keeping them in for color seems fine to me.  Same

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      is true for polymorph.  Sure, it may generally not be used, but new

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      players may have some fun with it.

I like "color" in games. If it doesn't violate playbalance it's fine.

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      However, one thing I would do is remove all the rods of polymorph.

     Finding
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      that wand and playing with it for a little while may be fun, but having a

     rod
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      such you can play with it forever will probably cause polymorph to lose

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      some of its mystery.

Yes, I certainly agree.

Andreas V.