[crossfire] Max State Cap (was: Re: classes & guilds)

[Mark Wedel]

Alex Schultz wrote:
> Mark Wedel wrote:
>>   changing the cap isn't that hard.
>>
>>   However, this has been done before - cap raised from 25 to 30, with a lot of 
>> the same discussions (too easy for any class to max gmout stats, etc).
>>
>>   the basic problem is that unless the cap is really high (50+), it may not make 
>> much difference if better and better items show up.  Perhaps related to that is 
>> a change that raised the max level - when that happened, then it made sense for 
>> those really high level quests to give out some good items that balanced with 
>> it, so you now got better items, and so getting that max stat became easier again.
>>   
> My thought on this issue with raising the cap, is that if better and
> better items show up, THAT is the problem. Given the current state of
> things, we could lower item bonuses and natural starting stats instead,
> however I believe that it would be easier to change or remove the caps
> AND be strict about not having too powerful items.

  Right.  But you need to figure that out.  If the cap is raised to say 40, that 
doesn't make much difference if there are +10 str items out there.  So at that 
point, you have to say a +10 str item is out of balance.  But it would be much 
better to have some idea what are reasonable max values, so that you have some 
idea what a maximum reasonable stat is.

> 
>>   This can not be taken one piece at a time - the entire character life cycle 
>> needs to be examined, in particular:
>>
>> - Is there a max level in the game?  If so, what should be it?
>> - Is there a max stat value in the game?  If so, what should it be?
>> - What should be the highest stat adjustment any single item in the game should 
>> give out?
>>
>>   Last question is somewhat important.  IF the answer is say 5, then you 
>> probably at minimum need the stat cap at least 25 higher than max natural stats 
>> (get 4 rings of that and it is 20.  Or 2 rings, sword, amulet, etc).
> What I'm pondering right now, is why should we need artificial caps on
> level or stats at all really? Why not instead just make the
> items and bonus calculations balanced with eachother? I think that caps
> are unnecessary if that is done right really.

  Not sure I follow what you mean balanced with each other.

  Certainly, things could get changed so that there is no item cap and no stat 
cap (or at least effectively so - a 16 bit stat value is 32000, so for all 
purposes, would never be reached).

  And that is perhaps one solution.  However, it changes the game a bit - right 
now, the stats tend to get increasing better bonuses as you go higher (the mana 
gain from 29 to 30 is more than 28 to 29).  For there not to be stat limits, 
you'd have to make all the bonuses linear.

  Which to some extent is a good thing I think.  Right now, if you're a spell 
caster, you really want to get that 30 power because of the mana it gives you, 
and if that means your strength is 24 and not 25, pretty easy tradeoff, as that 
30 power is a lot more useful than a 25 strength.  However, if the bonuses were 
linear, this becomes less clear cut - yes, you get more mana for that 30 power, 
but you also get some bonuses for a 25 strength.  I would tend to think that 
players would still have a somewhat varied set of stat bonuses they use - they 
wouldn't pile it all into one or two stats, because the bonus from other stats 
becomes worthwhile - the con (hp) to survive, etc.