[crossfire] Attributes/Stats

[Mark Wedel]

(I'm probably going to screw up threading somewhat, but responding to multiple 
messages from Nicolas in this one reply)

On 05/16/10 12:40 AM, Nicolas Weeger wrote:
<snip>
>>    One could quickly define different stats like:
>> Strength: raw physical strength.
>> Dex: Quickness/cat sense
>> Con: Physical fitness/health/life force
>> Int: Ability to think/reason - smarts
>> Wis: Amount in touch with ones god, believe
>> Pow: In touch with magic.
>> Cha: ego, willpower, force of personality.
>
> Then Cha could be used to resist various things?
> Like resist paralyze? Or poison ("you concentrate to not be too affected by the
> poison running in your blood).

  That was my thought - make Cha relevant for some things, like paralyze, slow. 
  I'm not sure about poison (if you are poisoned and it is interfering with the 
body functions, not sure what willpower could do).

  However, one could also add some new abilities - for example a beserk type 
attack mode (faster, do more damage, etc), but duration is based on Cha or 
something - basically the idea is that you are pushing your body (or mind for 
perhaps some spell related ones) beyond the point where most people would just quit.


>> > - Stat potions give the character a stat point to spend and don't increase
>> > a specific stat.  Or maybe potions get removed all together.
> Removing them seems ok. Or they are at the end of a perillous quest, something
> like that ;)
>
> Another option is to improve stats as you use an associated skill.
> For instance, if you fight a lot of tough opponents, you could gain one point
> in dex.

  That was sort of related to my idea in the skills discussion that character 
get certain bonuses to their attributes at certain levels.  It is really a 
semantic difference between the skill giving a +1 to dex, or giving the 
character a real stat increase.

  Also possible that maybe grant stat point in associated skills - eg, for 
combat, could be str, dex, con attributes (player choice), and for magic is is 
pow, int, ws, etc.

>
>
>> > Increasing the max stat is related to changing stat gain.  Under current
>> > system, characters reach maximum stats for their high starting stats
>> > pretty soon, and those are probably your class stats.  So they start
>> > improving the non class stats (fighters start improving pow, int, wis,etc
>> > because they have nothing else to improve).  Under this system, a fighter
>> > could keep increasing his str, dex, con, etc to the end up time.  So this
>> > means that level 40 fighter may have a 30 str, dex, con, but his int, wis,
>> > pow are still 8 because he is trying to be a fighter, not mage, and
>> > increasing the appropriate stats.
> I'd also link stats total to global level.
> After all both depend on your (life) experience, so how could you be high Int
> if you just came in the world?
> Something like no more 5 stats improvement per level, or such.

  That makes a lot of sense - it also means a high level character can't give a 
new character a pile of potions to get 30 stats.


>> >   Exactly how potion improvement works is a bit different discussion.  One
>> > thought is a characters first 10 potions are sure to work, and potions
>> > after that have some reduced chance (maybe -10% for each potion, so potion
>> > 11 is 90%, potion 12 is 80%, etc, to a minimum chance of 20%).  These
>> > numbers could be adjusted for what is considered appropriate (number of
>> > potions sure to work, reduction in probability, etc).
> Considering the current potion abundance, 20% is still too high :)

  It would probably be nice for stat potions to be very rare - they are hardly 
common now (IMO), but I think some of the issue is that at some point, players 
don't have a lot of use for them (stats are maxed), so they just get piled up. 
I wonder if there was always potential for characters to improve their stats if 
that would effectively reduce the seemingly high numbers of them.

  It's a tricky balancing point - if the percent was 1% of it working, then 
folks probably wouldn't take those odds.

  But I think the real fix is to reduce the frequency - make them really rare.

  Or maybe do something like potions of life - have different level versions? 
So you have a less stat improvement potion, that works for the first 10 
improvements, a moderate one for the first 20, etc, with the top one (unlimited 
stats) being incredibly rare?

  In this way, low level characters can fix any deficiencies/mistakes when they 
made their character, but it just gets harder and harder to get really high stats.


> One point not totally related to this thread, but to keep in mind: gaining
> stats points or equipment or levels or such should probably by a result of
> playing quests, not grinding over and over.
> If you play the quests, you "naturally" level up and gain equipment, no
> grinding required unless you want the ultimate items.

  While I'm not a fan of grinding, if players want to do it, I don't have issues 
with it.

  However, I think there is a somewhat fine line there - hopping around the 
world to do all the quests and get cool rewards is really just a different form 
of grinding - sure, the player is not hitting the same map over and over.

  I also note that grinding, going deep into random dungeons, or other non 
general quest stuff really needs to be part of crossfire, and there should be 
some rewards for it.  Simply put, I'm not sure if we could keep making enough 
quests with custom rewards to satisfy demand.  So I wouldn't want every good 
item to be a quest reward - some might just be things you find in random 
treasure - it might be incredibly rare, and it should be core to the game, but 
if a player really wants it, he doesn't have a lot of choice but to basically grind.


>> >   That doesn't quite work in crossfire, but one thought I had is to give
>> > fighters some abilities (really just like spells) that need grace/sp.
>> >
>> >   This goes with giving special abilities at certain levels for skills.
>> > But imagine that for fighters, at 5th level of swordmanship, they get
>> > something like 'holy weapon', which gives them a holy attacktype + slaying
>> > of their gods enemy. However, to use that ability needs 25 grace.
> Yes, skills that improve the attack or defense in some way, and use up spell
> points, or grace points.
>
> Note that grace could probably be changed a lot. Right now it's really easy to
> gain your points back, just praying - which you can do any time.
> It could be interesting to change praying and meditation to require you to for
> instance not have been hit for 10s - arguably, if you're in the middle of a
> battle, you're in no condition to concentrate!

  Yes, grace could probably get redone in many ways - a bit different 
discussion.  The way to regain it, ability to go negative grace, etc.


>> >   A character with average stats (no penalties, no bonuses) would have 25
>> > grace, and perhaps a bit more.  But if a character had put 1 in wis and
>> > pow, his grace is probably going to be <5, so won't be able to use that
>> > nice ability.
>> >
>> >   Could also have things like 'flaming sword' which use mana instead.
> Yes, or spell points for each hit, things like that.
> Or hp improving spells - drain 2sp per second to get a 10% hp raise.

  Yep - there are lots of different possibilities here - if we go this method, 
it will be an exercise to come up with all these different abilities

>> >   Another thought is to add stat requirements to use items.
>> > For example, you need a 10 pow to use a wand or rod.
>> > You need a 15 pow to use a scroll
> Yes.
> Or there could be a penalty for using a 15 pow scroll with only 5, reduced
> damage, chance of backfire, and such.

  Yes - I suppose effect of trying to use an item with lack of ability could 
depend on the item itself (maybe for weapons, it is reduced damage, etc)